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Death of MMO genre - Nuff said ...

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  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 31,022
    Scot said:
    Kyleran said:
    danwest58 said:
    O and no the MMORPG Genera is not dead.   Its stagnate with too many WOW clones trying to catter to every person in the world.   


    lol .. you are still stuck on the wow clone era? Now MMO is replaced by MOBAs, shooters, TCGs, and so on. 

    There has not been a AAA wow clone for a long time ... because devs are simply not interested in traditional mmos anymore. Unless you count Destiny 2 as one. 
    These days it seems everyone is cloning Battle Royal or Survival games.
    Yes, you are behind the curve Nari, because a game mode, let me repeat that a game mode, is now what everyone is rushing to do. This post will be out of date too by next week as someone discovers another holy grail of gameplay. :)

    Yeah .. I guess I should have mentioned PUBG instead of Destiny 2. See .. you don't even need innovation. Just a small twist of a standard pvp shooter and you get a hit.

    No wonder no one bothers with AAA MMORPGs anymore. 
    I certainly dont.

    ;)
    Cecropia

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  • MardukkMardukk Member RarePosts: 2,193
    Mikeha said:
    Its only dead to those who have gotten left behind.
    Huh?  If by "behind" you mean zero releases in multiple years.  Yeah I can't enough of these great MMO releases the past 4 -5 years amazing!
  • Loke666Loke666 Member EpicPosts: 21,441
    Kyleran said:
    These days it seems everyone is cloning Battle Royal or Survival games.
    Just because many people have realized that copying Wow wont make you rich doesn't mean they suddenly found talent and inspiration.

    Making something new and good takes hard work, money  and the 2 above mentioned skills, Copying what someone else already done (usually worse then the original) is far easier.

    It is the same as with music, if a band or artist become huge with a unique sound soon there will be tons of copy cats.
  • UngoodUngood Member RarePosts: 1,614
    Always makes me laugh when people end a post with "enough said " as if that the final say on the matter.


    Maybe it is the final say, and we are all just too stupid to realize it.
    There is no Truth, only the Illusions we wish to Cling to. Knowing this, why do we all cling to such shitty illusions?
  • esc-joconnoresc-joconnor Member RarePosts: 870
    So, the MMO is dead, long live the MMO then?
  • cjmarshcjmarsh Member UncommonPosts: 299
    DMKano said:
    ...

    MMO genre is not dead, it's changing rapidly as the new social/tech trends sway the playerbase - the video games are trying to keep up with the pace.



    This is it exactly. As demanding gamers with a need for instant gratification (well at least I sure need it) we tend to forget that MMOs take a very large budget and many years to produce. It's highly likely there are large MMO projects out there that have been grinding away for years but aren't at a stage where the developers feel comfortable revealing the project details. After all, generating hype for an upcoming game is a fine art and starting it five years before you release is an example of doing it poorly.
  • Loke666Loke666 Member EpicPosts: 21,441
    cjmarsh said:
    This is it exactly. As demanding gamers with a need for instant gratification (well at least I sure need it) we tend to forget that MMOs take a very large budget and many years to produce. It's highly likely there are large MMO projects out there that have been grinding away for years but aren't at a stage where the developers feel comfortable revealing the project details. After all, generating hype for an upcoming game is a fine art and starting it five years before you release is an example of doing it poorly.
    That is true but there can't be many from the larger studios or we would have gotten some leaks. Keeping something silent that long is very hardand while we missed a few until they gone to alpha stage at least most leaks within a year of the start with full team development.

    The only real thing we can say is that there are few western MMOs in development compared to 10 years ago and that most of the ones that are is either indie or crowdfunded.

    Also, 10 years ago Wow had 15M players which is likely more then Wow+ ESO + GW2 + TOR + FF XIV have together now. The wild card is the Korean MMOs like BDO and B&S, I have no clue of how many western players they have now but KMMORPGs are almost certain larger in the west then 2008. Still, I think the number together is still dropping.

    So it is likely that fewer people play PC MMORPGs in the west now then 10 years ago. That doesn't mean the genre is dying but it is shrinking at the moment. Like he said in the vid a single hit game could change that in an instant but we need that game first.

    Fewer western MMORPGs + Fewer western MMORPG players = genre in decline (at the moment).
    Scotcameltosis
  • cjmarshcjmarsh Member UncommonPosts: 299
    @Loke666
    You make some great points but I think that while there is such a pent-up demand for MMOs, the genre is only sleeping, not in decline.
    Scot
  • MagararMagarar Member CommonPosts: 8
    it only slow down
  • nariusseldonnariusseldon Member RarePosts: 27,768
    Loke666 said:


    So it is likely that fewer people play PC MMORPGs in the west now then 10 years ago. That doesn't mean the genre is dying but it is shrinking at the moment. 

    You have to ask WHY the genre is shrinking and whether the changes are likely to reverse. The number 1 answer is simple .. consumers have choices now. There is an explosion of different types of games .. and no one needs to (or few will) stick to just one game. 

    That is not likely to reverse. That is why games like Destiny 2 and The Division have problems. If they are released 10 years ago, they can charge a sub and be successful like WoW. But now? It is much easier to make small games that people will play a while and switch. 
  • Jean-Luc_PicardJean-Luc_Picard Member LegendaryPosts: 7,700
    Those threads crack me up... and the youtube attention whore making those videos is pathetic.

    Yeah, the MMO genre is dead... yet it has more players than it ever had. Go figure.
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  • MetentsoMetentso Member UncommonPosts: 1,437
    Lol I come here once in a year or so. Still debating if the MMO genre is dead. It is. Since 10 years ago.
    TorvalLaetitian
  • TheScavengerTheScavenger Member EpicPosts: 3,272
    edited February 7
    Those threads crack me up... and the youtube attention whore making those videos is pathetic.

    Yeah, the MMO genre is dead... yet it has more players than it ever had. Go figure.
    Its only dead to people who keep whining for oldschool MMO clones and hate innovation, but then never play the oldschool MMOs when they are released (like vanguard). Or those who keep getting burned on kickstarter/early access MMO rip offs (which most seem to be).

    True MMO players have plenty of MMOs to play. The genre has never been better. GW2 is doing great, ESO is doing amazingly especially cause its on console too...BDO is doing great too (as seen by steam stats, not even counting non-steam players) and that is only going to get better when its out on console.

    EVE Online is still doing great as far as sandbox PvP MMOs go, probably the best sandbox MMO. Its tapered off like WoW, but its still very successful

    ELITE Dangerous is successful in its own niche market

    WoW is still doing the best as far as pay to play MMOs go, despite its age and losing a chunk of players.

    FFXIV is doing great, while I dunno its playerbase numbers...as far as I know its still healthy as ever

    Plus plenty of innovative MMOs in development, and a lot of other MMOs that aren't some of the "big" ones in this post. I probably even missed some big ones lol

    Its like someone quits WoW (or any other MMO they quit), and then make a post on the forums "lol I quit WoW and now my one cancelled subscription means its dead. The whole MMO genre is dead cause I'm not playing any MMO trololol"
    Post edited by TheScavenger on
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  • KnightFalzKnightFalz Member UncommonPosts: 565
    When it comes to MMORPG discussion there is one thing you can count on. The sky is always falling accompanied by a chorus of much wolf crying.
  • Loke666Loke666 Member EpicPosts: 21,441
    Metentso said:
    Lol I come here once in a year or so. Still debating if the MMO genre is dead. It is. Since 10 years ago.
    That is true, people were even saying it early in 2004 before Wow came out. But unlike 10 years ago the genre is growing anymore, at least not in the west. At best we have stagnation but to me it looks like the genre is in decline  at the moment.

    However, the vid this thread is about doesn't actually say the genre is dying, just that we are in a dip, it is some people here that say it is dead or dying (the name of the thread is misleading).

    Gaming genres go up and down and it have been like that for a long time. People said that FPS games were dying before half-life (with the Counter strike mode that turned things around) came out as well. Sometimes you need a game with new perspective to rattle things up and the MMO genre have been in need of something like that for a while now, it is just that it might take time before a game comes out and does that, it might take another 10 years.
  • ScotScot Member EpicPosts: 9,612
    I notice the OP has not replied to anything said in the posts so far. He just threw the video into the MMORPG.com den and like a pack of rabid wolves we descended on it. :)
    Kylerananemo

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  • kitaradkitarad Member EpicPosts: 4,660
    Rabid wolf checking in
    Scotcjmarshanemocheyane

  • beebop500beebop500 Member UncommonPosts: 217
    I don't think the genre is dying, but I don't think it's in a very good place, either.  From a technical standpoint, they are wonderful now, at least in terms of what can be placed in games and the way they are presented.  But that has had little impact, IMO, on the overall quality of what we see now.  We are overloaded with bad F2P games but that is as much a function of society's general lack of an attention span as anything else.

    For me, I just don't fully understand why box fees and/or sub fees are so reviled now.  My experience has been that those games are generally - generally - better and have longer life spans.  But nowadays, the first thing people want to discuss about an upcoming game is its monetization format.  You'd think folks would be tired of being screwed over or disappointed by now.  Some of the "new" money models, especially the supposedly-F2P ones, certainly aren't improvements over just paying for a game and having what you need in-game.  Just my 2c.
    "We are all as God made us, and many of us much worse." - Don Quixote
  • AAAMEOWAAAMEOW Member UncommonPosts: 739
    beebop500 said:
    I don't think the genre is dying, but I don't think it's in a very good place, either.  From a technical standpoint, they are wonderful now, at least in terms of what can be placed in games and the way they are presented.  But that has had little impact, IMO, on the overall quality of what we see now.  We are overloaded with bad F2P games but that is as much a function of society's general lack of an attention span as anything else.

    For me, I just don't fully understand why box fees and/or sub fees are so reviled now.  My experience has been that those games are generally - generally - better and have longer life spans.  But nowadays, the first thing people want to discuss about an upcoming game is its monetization format.  You'd think folks would be tired of being screwed over or disappointed by now.  Some of the "new" money models, especially the supposedly-F2P ones, certainly aren't improvements over just paying for a game and having what you need in-game.  Just my 2c.
    I don't think it is necessary true subscription have longer life spans.  All the games not doing well changed to f2p.  That is probably why you have the illusion subscription games are long lasting.  

    I do agree pay to win games really tick people off.  So they have a hard time keeping players and make people returning.

    That being said, some f2p games have moderate cash shop.  So people end up paying less than a subscription but still can enjoy it without feeling pressured to spend money.
  • GitmixGitmix Member UncommonPosts: 601
    edited February 8
    Tell that to everyone playing WoW or FFXIV...lol
    Yeah there's so many people playing WoW Blizzard had to back track on something they said they'd never do for over 10 years (classic) to save their sinking ship.

    I never played or followed FF14 so I won't comment on that one.

    I can't speak for everyone but to me the genre is definitely dying. Not dead but severely hemorrhaging and on life support. The newer games people see as the evolution of the genre aren't MMOs at all, they're mostly just online games in non persistent worlds.

    Not a single real MMO has appealed to me since the whole "free2play" disaster. They're all barbage money grabs designed to drain the wallets of a few addiction prone whales, nothing more.

    The verdict's still out on the new wave of crowd funded games...if only one would ever release we'd quickly know if they had genuine potential or if they were just another dead end.

    My guess is they're gonna be so clunky and shallow people won't bother with them very long. But I hope I'm wrong.
    Post edited by Gitmix on
  • NorseGodNorseGod Member RarePosts: 1,487
    Scot said:
    I notice the OP has not replied to anything said in the posts so far. He just threw the video into the MMORPG.com den and like a pack of rabid wolves we descended on it. :)
    B-but he said, "Nuff said". What are we going to do now, guys?
    CryomatrixanemoScot
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  • TheocritusTheocritus Member EpicPosts: 6,412
    While there isn't another WoW coming, there still is alot in development...I cant even keep track of many of them.
  • Loke666Loke666 Member EpicPosts: 21,441
    AAAMEOW said:
    I don't think it is necessary true subscription have longer life spans.  All the games not doing well changed to f2p.  That is probably why you have the illusion subscription games are long lasting.  

    I do agree pay to win games really tick people off.  So they have a hard time keeping players and make people returning.

    That being said, some f2p games have moderate cash shop.  So people end up paying less than a subscription but still can enjoy it without feeling pressured to spend money.
    Well, devs of subscription based games do tend to add more timesinks since they get payed by the month, just like F2P games try to sell you as much stuff as they can as fast as possible.

    Some devs are worse then others but they do try to maximize profits. A subscription game you just play for a few weeks isn't good for the devs just like a F2P game you play a long time with a minimum purchase as you start out and nothing later.

    When F2P became more the the norm they tried to push in as much fun as they could in the first few weeks of playing together with promoting you to buy stuff. That do means that once you pass the content they throw at you things slow down and many people move to something else after that.

    It is just logical but it isn't really the fault of the payment models, or at least not only that. The problem though is that MMOs are rather expensive to make so unless people play a long time and pay a bit now and then you need to earn a lot of money fast and there is where pay2win comes in.

    A P2P player pays box price ($30-60 depending on the age of the game), expansions ($30-45 every 2 years or so) and $15 a month ($180 a year).

    A B2P player pay box price ($45-60), expansions ($30-45 every 2 years) and sell some stuff and character slots.

    A F2P game with the same cost as those 2 will need to sell a lot of items to earn as much from each player. That means you need to push a lot of stuff on the players unless you have an "optional" subscription you more or less need to play seriously.

    And many F2P games try to sell you that stuff the first few weeks you play, then they doesn't really care if you stay around or not. It is short sighted but more then a few still does it and that is why people feel P2P games last longer, they have to last long or the devs wont get paid. 

    F2P games with an "optional" subscription on the other hand try to last just as long.
  • ScotScot Member EpicPosts: 9,612
    NorseGod said:
    Scot said:
    I notice the OP has not replied to anything said in the posts so far. He just threw the video into the MMORPG.com den and like a pack of rabid wolves we descended on it. :)
    B-but he said, "Nuff said". What are we going to do now, guys?

    I don't think the OP even believes this himself, but it was a great line to go with the video. :)

     25 Agrees

    You received 25 Agrees. You're posting some good content. Great!

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    Now Doesn't That Make You Feel All Warm And Fuzzy Inside? :P

  • Loke666Loke666 Member EpicPosts: 21,441
    Scot said:

    I don't think the OP even believes this himself, but it was a great line to go with the video. :)
    He just wrote the title so the thread would get attention and people would watch the vid.
    I can't really blame him for that either but threads like this get the typical "I just read the title and got upset but didn't bother reading the OP or watch the vid" posts.
    cjmarshScot
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