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Miners make it harder to find budget video cards

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  • QuizzicalQuizzical Member LegendaryPosts: 21,940
    gervaise1 said:
    Quizzical said:
    Hairysun said:
    Nvidia and AMD are working on mining only cards as we speak.  They are simply gaming cards with no outputs.  Once they reach the shelf the issues will be resolved. 
    If those cards arrive in significant volume, the miners will buy them all, and then also buy all of the gaming cards for good measure.  Mining-only cards (or more properly compute-only) may provide a way for AMD or Nvidia to sell defective GPUs where the defective portion doesn't affect mining, but that will be the extent of it.
    Samsung's decision to produce mining specific cards (RISC based I believe) is probably more significant (Samsung's chip revenue having exceeding Intel's last year). 
    It depends on which cryptocurrency we're talking about.  There have been ASICs for Bitcoin for several years now, so that's nothing new.  If they're going to build an Ethereum-mining ASIC, then I'd be very curious how they're going to do that.  
  • Asm0deusAsm0deus Member EpicPosts: 3,173
    edited February 2018
    Torval said:
    ...snip...

    Sure dude. Dorothy called. She found Toto and she's ready to go.

    here, I'll explain a bit again. You're directly implying that there will be a change because you think this is some sort of fad driven bubble that a few banking regulations are going to bring down. That's complete fantasy.

    The technology driving crypto currency is huge and is also used in other applications. It's not going away thus the demand for chips will not go away.

    Additionally the fabs that supply gpus and memory also have heavy demand from sectors like mobile. That's going nowhere but up.

    There is no light at the end of the tunnel. There is no likely relief in sight and certainly no plausible avenues for that brought up in this thread. Do you think the market is going to magically rectify itself over this? Not anytime soon.
    I'll explain again toto....... I know this.


    I was implying that I would like for the "bubble" to pop in the sense that tom, dick and harry would stop farming in their moms basement...go look at gpu reviews and see how many talk about mining and therefore take some pressure off the gpu market.  Now even if this happened I doubt it would make a huge impact.

    Now is this hope unlikely? It sure damn is maybe I should have pointed out the bloody obvious, I have said it before and will say it again I'm not going to hold my breath on any changes soonish.

    All this still doesn't change one fact..the sooner the big countries start make regulations and decide their stance on cryptocurrency the better.

    The problem here is that  you have gotten the impression and have spun some narrative that I am naive or just plain stupid and have been saying the opposite when I haven't.

    From page one I have been arguing that prices are going up not down even after Quiz stated, "blabla its not bitcoin its etherium", cause you know we all have to be anal when people "say bitcoin" when they actually mean cryptocurrency..

    I would like to know how the fuck you think me saying that banning anonymous accounts is a step in the right direction equates into anything you seem to "think" I am saying. 

    Hell I would like to know how you make the mental leap from me posting the prices of gtx 1060 having gone up yet again compared to when I bought a 1060, for my son as mentioned in page 1 of this thread, to me hoping this is going to change anytime soon or I think a few regulations are going to make all cryptocurrency crash for sure?

    You're reading far far too much between the line instead of just taking what I am saying at face value.

    Like that first post I made in page 3.  I point out that yet again that prices are not going down and in fact seem to be going up and you somehow take to to think I am saying or hoping for the opposite.

    How about this.... stop talking shit and stick to what I actually said and stop trying to mind read me from across the vastness of the web. 

    Christ go back to page 3 and just look at your response to my post showing the prices of gtx 1060 have went up again.  You can see right there from that post of yours that you are hell bent on trying to fit me in some BS narrative you have created.

    Stop trying to read in bewteen the lines cause frankly you suck at it.



    Now lets look at the only post I made that might have confused you shall we?
    Asm0deus said:
    Torval said:
    Asm0deus said:
    The BS pricing continues........gtx 1060 3gb cards in canada are now averaging around $500 CAD........

    https://www.newegg.ca/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&DEPA=0&Order=BESTMATCH&Description=1060+3gb&ignorear=0&N=-1&isNodeId=1

    It's not going to stop. There's no end in sight. This isn't a "oops this generation of cards got screwed, wait until the next" sort of thing.

    The light at the end of the tunnel...

    Well that's not entirely true, if the cryptocurrency bubble can crash then prices would go back to normal and actually follow MSRP.


    It's pretty clear that you're the one making major implications here and that is that cryptocurrency is here to stay for a long long time enough so that there's "no light at the end of the tunnel".

    I don't even get why you responded to me with this post of yours as my post that you quoted was just me updating some pricing on some gtx 1060 and showing the prices went up so I dont get the relevance?

    Like I said you seem to have something to prove to me or something...

    Nevertheless I replied to that snarky post by saying that your statement wasn't entirely true as IF...note the keyword here is IF the crypto bubble would crash it would probably see prices coming down.

    Which you can't now deny would be true as you have just said prices wouldn't go down because "crypto here to stay, no light at the end of the tunnel etc".

    Now maybe I should have pointed out this wasn't happening anytime soon but I thought hey anyone reading this thread from page one would have guessed by now this was pretty much my position and didn't try and belabor the obvious.
    Post edited by Asm0deus on

    Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.





  • gervaise1gervaise1 Member EpicPosts: 6,919
    edited February 2018
    Quizzical said:
    gervaise1 said:
    Quizzical said:
    Hairysun said:
    Nvidia and AMD are working on mining only cards as we speak.  They are simply gaming cards with no outputs.  Once they reach the shelf the issues will be resolved. 
    If those cards arrive in significant volume, the miners will buy them all, and then also buy all of the gaming cards for good measure.  Mining-only cards (or more properly compute-only) may provide a way for AMD or Nvidia to sell defective GPUs where the defective portion doesn't affect mining, but that will be the extent of it.
    Samsung's decision to produce mining specific cards (RISC based I believe) is probably more significant (Samsung's chip revenue having exceeding Intel's last year). 
    It depends on which cryptocurrency we're talking about.  There have been ASICs for Bitcoin for several years now, so that's nothing new.  If they're going to build an Ethereum-mining ASIC, then I'd be very curious how they're going to do that.  
    Agree - and Samsung have provided no details.

    Two takeaways for me:
    1. The bad news. This means the market for ASICs - and hence mining as a whole - is big enough for Samsung to be interested. In Q3 last year for example ASIC manufacture was estimated to be worth $350-400M to TSMC. And this is in addition to the value of any graphics cards that are being diverted to mining. So if nothing changes the pressure on graphics cards looks set to continue.
     
    2. The good news. As you say ASICs for mining are not new. However what potentially is significant is that Samsung are huge with manufacturing capacity that can fulfill large "on demand" orders. Its memory division reported $69B - billion - in revenue last year - so far larger than the current ASIC market + diverted graphics cards. So if - if - Samsung do decide to "step on the gas" they could make an impact.

    As you say though we don't know and Samsung are not saying. Maybe they will decide its not profitable! Or maybe (hopefully!) this is a market that they have decided to enter. Be a few months I assume before we know more. 
    Asm0deusTorval
  • iAntigoneiAntigone Member CommonPosts: 5
    Just three months ago I bought a MSI GTX 1050ti for like $179 dollars if I recall correctly. It also had a $25 dollar mail in rebate which I should be getting in like one week. So in the end the GPU only costed me $154 dollars.
  • QuizzicalQuizzical Member LegendaryPosts: 21,940
    iAntigone said:
    Just three months ago I bought a MSI GTX 1050ti for like $179 dollars if I recall correctly. It also had a $25 dollar mail in rebate which I should be getting in like one week. So in the end the GPU only costed me $154 dollars.
    That's for a lower end card that had an MSRP of $139 without rebate way back in 2016.
  • TorvalTorval Member LegendaryPosts: 19,934
    gervaise1 said:
    Quizzical said:
    gervaise1 said:
    Quizzical said:
    Hairysun said:
    Nvidia and AMD are working on mining only cards as we speak.  They are simply gaming cards with no outputs.  Once they reach the shelf the issues will be resolved. 
    If those cards arrive in significant volume, the miners will buy them all, and then also buy all of the gaming cards for good measure.  Mining-only cards (or more properly compute-only) may provide a way for AMD or Nvidia to sell defective GPUs where the defective portion doesn't affect mining, but that will be the extent of it.
    Samsung's decision to produce mining specific cards (RISC based I believe) is probably more significant (Samsung's chip revenue having exceeding Intel's last year). 
    It depends on which cryptocurrency we're talking about.  There have been ASICs for Bitcoin for several years now, so that's nothing new.  If they're going to build an Ethereum-mining ASIC, then I'd be very curious how they're going to do that.  
    Agree - and Samsung have provided no details.

    Two takeaways for me:
    1. The bad news. This means the market for ASICs - and hence mining as a whole - is big enough for Samsung to be interested. In Q3 last year for example ASIC manufacture was estimated to be worth $350-400M to TSMC. And this is in addition to the value of any graphics cards that are being diverted to mining. So if nothing changes the pressure on graphics cards looks set to continue.
     
    2. The good news. As you say ASICs for mining are not new. However what potentially is significant is that Samsung are huge with manufacturing capacity that can fulfill large "on demand" orders. Its memory division reported $69B - billion - in revenue last year - so far larger than the current ASIC market + diverted graphics cards. So if - if - Samsung do decide to "step on the gas" they could make an impact.

    As you say though we don't know and Samsung are not saying. Maybe they will decide its not profitable! Or maybe (hopefully!) this is a market that they have decided to enter. Be a few months I assume before we know more. 
    It's not just about graphics fabs either. There is a limit on total production without opening new fabs and/or repurposing them and the memory crunch is a factor and influenced by more demand than just crypto mining.
    gervaise1
    Fedora - A modern, free, and open source Operating System. https://getfedora.org/

    traveller, interloper, anomaly, iteration


  • RidelynnRidelynn Member EpicPosts: 7,032
    edited February 2018
    I don't know the specifics of the various mining algorithms, but it would stretch my imagination significantly to try to think of one that, for whatever reason, would run great on a GPU, but couldn't be made to run on a more cost effective dedicated device, such as an ASIC. I've heard memory is the reason existing Bitcoin ASICs don't work, but it's hard to imagine that you can't just ... add some RAM to it. 

    If ASICs don't work for whatever reason, something else will, and will be more cost effective than throwing hundreds of consumer GPUs in on backplanes in groups of 6-8, each with their own CPU, PSU, and other overhead. Maybe even straight side-binned GPU chips, RAM, and an ARM controller on a common PCB and custom lite linux kernal on a small bit of PCB-mounted SSD storage. Think Google Datacenter level of use .. there's a lot of money in overhead there, and mining very rapidly gets to that level (why, I still can't quite understand, except people thinking they are creating money from nothing and want to jump in on it)

    I do mostly understand what Asm0deus is saying about the bubble popping. That doesn't have to be strictly a financial bubble:

     - either the money will get big enough that development of such dedicated devices will be done, and then mining will only be performed by a few big entities (those who helped fund the development, and those rich enough to buy into it later on). It happened with Bitcoin, it would be naive to think it can't happen with Ethereum or any other software-derived blockchain - no matter how the creators may have originally intended to try to keep it from going that direction.

    - or the difficulty ramps up until eventually "consumer" grade hardware doesn't cut it anymore, and more of the hobbyiests back out as it takes more and more hardware to make a decent profit, and then we are back to the few big miners controlling the majority of the creation.

    - or, the financial bubble pops, and people just don't see a return in the effort any longer and just stop mining.

    I think blockchain is probably here to stay in some form or fashion, and there is value in i cryptocurrency as a concept. I think the entirety of current existing cryptocurrencies are all going to be near-worthless, later if not sooner.

    I think 1 or 2 is more likely to happen before 3 does. 
    Asm0deus
  • ET3DET3D Member UncommonPosts: 316
    Ridelynn said:
    I don't know the specifics of the various mining algorithms, but it would stretch my imagination significantly to try to think of one that, for whatever reason, would run great on a GPU, but couldn't be made to run on a more cost effective dedicated device, such as an ASIC. I've heard memory is the reason existing Bitcoin ASICs don't work, but it's hard to imagine that you can't just ... add some RAM to it.
    Generally true, but the advantage of a GPU is that it's general purpose, and therefore capable of supporting a variety of cryptocurrencies, which means that miners don't need to put all their eggs in the same basket.

    It's completely possible to produce a general purpose chip which doesn't have the graphics stuff that's unused by mining, and it will be a smaller chip, but it will still be a complex one, much more so than Bitcoin ASIC's. So while it's not out of the question, I think that most big companies capable of creating such a chip realise that mining is stupid, and would rather not jump into it. (Although I suspect that there are smaller companies trying to get this done.)

    While I think that mining will die, I don't think that crypto will die, and some of it might retain some value. Ethereum is planning to go the proof of share way, and I'm sure others will adapt. What its value will be in the long run, I can't say, but I think that Ethereum has enough meat (unlike pretty much all other crypto) that it could retain some value.
  • GorweGorwe Member EpicPosts: 6,549
    My question is: Why mine? Why create a negative starting investment you have to catch up to? Why not simply invest in these things? Can't understand it for the life of me!
    Ridelynn
  • Leon1eLeon1e Member UncommonPosts: 791
    For the first time in history it's actually cheaper to go to , say, CyberPower PC and make a build there. It will cost less. 

    So much for "demand drives costs down". Free market and shit yay \o/ 
    Gorwe
  • zymurgeistzymurgeist Member RarePosts: 5,484
    Free markets aren't restricted. How many high end graphics chip companies are there? It's nearly  with a natural monopoly. Demand drives costs up. Excess supply drives costs down. 

    "We have met the enemy and he is us." ~Pogo Possum. 

  • TorvalTorval Member LegendaryPosts: 19,934
    Ridelynn said:
    I don't know the specifics of the various mining algorithms, but it would stretch my imagination significantly to try to think of one that, for whatever reason, would run great on a GPU, but couldn't be made to run on a more cost effective dedicated device, such as an ASIC. I've heard memory is the reason existing Bitcoin ASICs don't work, but it's hard to imagine that you can't just ... add some RAM to it. 

    If ASICs don't work for whatever reason, something else will, and will be more cost effective than throwing hundreds of consumer GPUs in on backplanes in groups of 6-8, each with their own CPU, PSU, and other overhead. Maybe even straight side-binned GPU chips, RAM, and an ARM controller on a common PCB and custom lite linux kernal on a small bit of PCB-mounted SSD storage. Think Google Datacenter level of use .. there's a lot of money in overhead there, and mining very rapidly gets to that level (why, I still can't quite understand, except people thinking they are creating money from nothing and want to jump in on it)

    I do mostly understand what Asm0deus is saying about the bubble popping. That doesn't have to be strictly a financial bubble:

     - either the money will get big enough that development of such dedicated devices will be done, and then mining will only be performed by a few big entities (those who helped fund the development, and those rich enough to buy into it later on). It happened with Bitcoin, it would be naive to think it can't happen with Ethereum or any other software-derived blockchain - no matter how the creators may have originally intended to try to keep it from going that direction.

    - or the difficulty ramps up until eventually "consumer" grade hardware doesn't cut it anymore, and more of the hobbyiests back out as it takes more and more hardware to make a decent profit, and then we are back to the few big miners controlling the majority of the creation.

    - or, the financial bubble pops, and people just don't see a return in the effort any longer and just stop mining.

    I think blockchain is probably here to stay in some form or fashion, and there is value in i cryptocurrency as a concept. I think the entirety of current existing cryptocurrencies are all going to be near-worthless, later if not sooner.

    I think 1 or 2 is more likely to happen before 3 does. 
    Good points. If cryptocurrency were the only factor, but compute is becoming huge everywhere like you said. Like you said there is a lot of competition for fab space. Where is going to go? Where are the bottlenecks? And especially, what does everything want and need that is a shared resource? Everything needs memory of some sort. Old process nodes might be cheap and easy, for now, but will they be kept around or shuttered in favor of more lucrative product.

    Scenarios 1 and 2 are more likely than scenario 3. How likely are scenarios 1 and 2 at all?

    The 4th scenario could go something like this and is a take on 1. Demand for various chips becomes more stable / less volatile and production will slowly be adapted to the change in market conditions, whatever they are. The more stable crypto, blockchain, machine learning, other compute, iot/mobile/devices become the quicker this will iron out without some event that is scary to the bean counters.

    I really started thinking on your memory comment and mobile. My phone has 128GB of NAND and 4GB RAM. SSDs, routers, and everything uses ram and a lot more of it than ever before. We're jamming more into more things. The only slowdown I've seen in that is Apple is cutting production of the iPhone X because demand isn't there.
    Ridelynn
    Fedora - A modern, free, and open source Operating System. https://getfedora.org/

    traveller, interloper, anomaly, iteration


  • QuizzicalQuizzical Member LegendaryPosts: 21,940
    Ridelynn said:
    I don't know the specifics of the various mining algorithms, but it would stretch my imagination significantly to try to think of one that, for whatever reason, would run great on a GPU, but couldn't be made to run on a more cost effective dedicated device, such as an ASIC. I've heard memory is the reason existing Bitcoin ASICs don't work, but it's hard to imagine that you can't just ... add some RAM to it. 

    If ASICs don't work for whatever reason, something else will, and will be more cost effective than throwing hundreds of consumer GPUs in on backplanes in groups of 6-8, each with their own CPU, PSU, and other overhead. Maybe even straight side-binned GPU chips, RAM, and an ARM controller on a common PCB and custom lite linux kernal on a small bit of PCB-mounted SSD storage. Think Google Datacenter level of use .. there's a lot of money in overhead there, and mining very rapidly gets to that level (why, I still can't quite understand, except people thinking they are creating money from nothing and want to jump in on it)
    Bitcoin mining is about doing a bunch of SHA-256 hashes.  That's very heavy on shuffling bits around in fixed patterns and xoring them together.  You can readily make an ASIC that flies that that and blows away all general purpose hardware.

    Ethereum mining is about doing random lookups into a table that is about 3 GB as fast as you can.  That's heavy on memory bandwidth, so to get good performance, you basically want either GDDR5 or HBM2.  Which companies in the world are competent to build a good GDDR5 or HBM2 controller?  Basically AMD and Nvidia.

    If AMD wanted to, they could probably build an Ethereum-mining ASIC that was basically a Vega 10 but tossed out most of the GPU but had custom logic for the Keccak rounds and kept the memory controllers and a PCI-E x1 interface.  Maybe they could get the same performance as a Radeon RX Vega 64, but while using 50 W and 100 mm^2 of die space.  Nvidia could probably do something like that, too.

    But the advantage of such an ASIC would be the same performance as a GPU in less wattage and die space.  It wouldn't be getting 50 times the performance of consumer hardware like with a Bitcoin-mining ASIC.  So you kind of could build an ASIC for Ethereum, but very few companies would have the expertise to do so and it wouldn't have anywhere near the same upside as with Bitcoin.

    If AMD or Nvidia believed that Ethereum mining was still going to be eating up all of the GPUs three years from now, then maybe they would create such an ASIC.  But if you start today and then have a product ready to bring to market in two years after Ethereum prices have collapsed, then you just spend $50 million in development on a product that no one wants.  That's quite a risk, and for a product that maybe saves you $50-$100 as compared to selling an ordinary GPU.

    What makes more sense is having mining bins of existing GPUs.  For example, if AMD makes a Vega 10 GPU and the chip works great except that the video decode block doesn't work, they'd normally have to toss that in the garbage.  Similarly for a tessellation unit, a rasterizer, or some other things.  Or if enough compute units are defective that they can't sell it as a Vega 56.

    What they could do instead is to make a mining-only version of the Vega 10 GPU that disables all of the fixed-function graphics stuff and maybe has only 48 compute units enabled.  If 5% of the Vega 10 dies that come back from the fabs would be able to fit such a bin but were otherwise getting thrown in the garbage, then maybe you can sell those dies as a mining-only GPU.  Of course, the extra binning also has a cost, so it's not automatic that this makes sense to do, and some depends on yields.
  • QuizzicalQuizzical Member LegendaryPosts: 21,940
    edited February 2018
    I don't want to see Bitcoin just below $7500.  I want to see Bitcoin below $100 and Ethereum below $10.  Realistically, Bitcoin at $1000, Ethereum at $100, and the rest of the mined cryptocurrencies seeing similar drops would probably be enough to end the mining craze.  But I want to see them drop far enough to convince people that it's not coming back.
    [Deleted User]kitarad
  • FlyByKnightFlyByKnight Member EpicPosts: 3,967
    I know it's customary to tell folks "don't hold your breath", but actually... hold your breath, it would be funnier.
    "As far as the forum code of conduct, I would think it's a bit outdated and in need of a refre *CLOSED*" 

    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  • CleffyCleffy Member RarePosts: 6,198
    What affected crypto-currency prices are the changes to how different nations deal with the currency and a couple bits of bad news about stolen coins. More than likely it will continue to climb after the adjustment. Just like how every time the fed has a meeting, leading up to it sees the value of the dollar go up and after they announce no rate hikes gold goes up.
  • GorweGorwe Member EpicPosts: 6,549
    I know it's customary to tell folks "don't hold your breath", but actually... hold your breath, it would be funnier.
    Block-chain cryptocurrency is based on nothing, and so long term it will be worth nothing.

    Fundamentally, any currency that deflates from $100 to $20,000 is absolutely worthless as a currency long term.  Deflation is the worst possible scenario for currency in modern economies.  Currency is supposed to be used for trade, not itself viewed as a commodity. 

    Bitcoin and its numerous copy cats were doomed to fail from the moment they were created.  Sure, a bunch of people will get rich off them ... with money spent by suckers who are investing real dollars into them now because they don't understand basic economics.
    You want to know what else is worth nothing? MONEY. Ever since it got separated from gold, it's worth what exactly? 1 result of a formula? Wtf.
  • laseritlaserit Member LegendaryPosts: 6,271
    Gorwe said:
    I know it's customary to tell folks "don't hold your breath", but actually... hold your breath, it would be funnier.
    Block-chain cryptocurrency is based on nothing, and so long term it will be worth nothing.

    Fundamentally, any currency that deflates from $100 to $20,000 is absolutely worthless as a currency long term.  Deflation is the worst possible scenario for currency in modern economies.  Currency is supposed to be used for trade, not itself viewed as a commodity. 

    Bitcoin and its numerous copy cats were doomed to fail from the moment they were created.  Sure, a bunch of people will get rich off them ... with money spent by suckers who are investing real dollars into them now because they don't understand basic economics.
    You want to know what else is worth nothing? MONEY. Ever since it got separated from gold, it's worth what exactly? 1 result of a formula? Wtf.
    Its worth as much as your way of life. Without it, we'll be like ants in a colony or we'll be living in a new dark age.

    Hopefully either way... someone will have saved some books ;)

    "Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee

  • RidelynnRidelynn Member EpicPosts: 7,032
    Gorwe said:
    I know it's customary to tell folks "don't hold your breath", but actually... hold your breath, it would be funnier.
    Block-chain cryptocurrency is based on nothing, and so long term it will be worth nothing.

    Fundamentally, any currency that deflates from $100 to $20,000 is absolutely worthless as a currency long term.  Deflation is the worst possible scenario for currency in modern economies.  Currency is supposed to be used for trade, not itself viewed as a commodity. 

    Bitcoin and its numerous copy cats were doomed to fail from the moment they were created.  Sure, a bunch of people will get rich off them ... with money spent by suckers who are investing real dollars into them now because they don't understand basic economics.
    You want to know what else is worth nothing? MONEY. Ever since it got separated from gold, it's worth what exactly? 1 result of a formula? Wtf.
    The difference is a government (or other entity) is willing to stand behind their currency. The full faith and credit schtick.

    Now maybe you don’t believe in the power of a legitimate government to artificially create value in currency. But it doesn’t really matter what you or I think — it matters what the banks and lenders and corporations think. And if they can get someone bigger than they are to take the liability - that’s where they are going to put their business.


  • FlyByKnightFlyByKnight Member EpicPosts: 3,967
    I know it's customary to tell folks "don't hold your breath", but actually... hold your breath, it would be funnier.
    Block-chain cryptocurrency is based on nothing, and so long term it will be worth nothing.

    Fundamentally, any currency that deflates from $100 to $20,000 is absolutely worthless as a currency long term.  Deflation is the worst possible scenario for currency in modern economies.  Currency is supposed to be used for trade, not itself viewed as a commodity. 

    Bitcoin and its numerous copy cats were doomed to fail from the moment they were created.  Sure, a bunch of people will get rich off them ... with money spent by suckers who are investing real dollars into them now because they don't understand basic economics.
    Dude if you're going to speak about blockchain currency don't start with "it's based on nothing" or "currency not viewed as commodity" because it shows;

    • You don't know what the hell you're talking about and coming from a position of hyperbole and ignorance
    • You've never held a piece of plastic or paper in your hands and used it to buy anything
    • You're the genius who calls every SUV a "Jeep" or every gaming system a "Nintendo"

    I'm no expert, nor am I placing hard bets on the future of any currency (well I am but skeptically) but saying silly "IDK WTF I'm talking about" statements about currency several times doesn't make it any more valid than the first round of blithering.

    I'm not saying you don't have any valid points to make but you sure as hell ain't making any. It's all reading like:

    "MP3s are dumb because they're not real."

    There's legit brilliant people behind some intriguing white paper that's powering some of this stuff. I think it's wiser to research them as opposed to a couple of folks ermahgadding like dumb blondes because they can't buy graphics cards right now.
    "As far as the forum code of conduct, I would think it's a bit outdated and in need of a refre *CLOSED*" 

    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  • HairysunHairysun Member UncommonPosts: 1,059

    Senate panel looks at Bitcoin, regulating block chain virtual currency

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pXDPr7yJhcA

    Pretty interesting if it's your sort of thing and have a couple hours to kill.  From the surprisingly well informed to the truly clueless. 

    Regardless, there is "something" going on with crypto and blockchain.  Some see it and many do not.  Good, bad, history changing or a FOTY that will burn out into nothingness is all to be determined at this point.  I hear it's the "DotCom Bubble all over again" quite a bit.  Perhaps that is so and many of these coins/companies will turn out to be like AOL and MySpace ...... gone. 

    Do not however forget about Google, Apple, Amazon or any other company that came out of the "DotCom Bubble" and are what they are today. 
         


  • cheyanecheyane Member EpicPosts: 7,032
    This is just a thought but if cards become so expensive then normal players like me (thankfully I got my 1070 GTX last year before the price hike) will simply not upgrade. This in turn will affect the number of people who can take full advantage of the high end graphic games that come out and reduce the number of people buying those games. Won't this adversely affect the gaming for PC as far as the number of players able to play those games that require better video cards. I really don't see any upside to this except the slow deterioration of our choices as players.
    image
  • xmentyxmenty Member UncommonPosts: 716
    A lot of people will move to console gaming If they do not bring down the GPU and ram price.  The rest of the companies that produce other PC parts will have no sales cos nobody want to upgrade their PC.

    Pardon my English as it is not my 1st language :)

  • OzmodanOzmodan Member EpicPosts: 9,696
    Ozmodan said:
    Buy a 1080, prices still close to $500 and not really a good mining card.
    https://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&DEPA=0&Order=BESTMATCH&Description=gtx+1080&ignorear=0&N=-1&isNodeId=1

    newegg says hi, both TI and standard over $1k

    That is complete nonsense, I just bought one at Microcenter for $550 and they had a bunch of them.  I buy locally instead of being ripped off by Newegg!
  • OzmodanOzmodan Member EpicPosts: 9,696
    Quizzical said:
    Renoaku said:
    Ozmodan said:
    Buy a 1080, prices still close to $500 and not really a good mining card.
    1080 suck get a 1080ti they were only $800 that $300 more goes a long ways.
    That you say that a video card is "only" $800 illustrates the problem.  Especially when the cheapest one on New Egg is currently $1249.

    Microcenter had 1080ti's for $799, Newegg is a complete rip off!

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