State of the Studio = the game isn't finished yet and they're still working on it
/thread
Or keep circle jerking to speculation. Don't stop on my account. Keep your towels handy and stroke away.
But the studio pretty much is.
Is what? Still making the game? Check. Not dead yet? Check. So you don't really know shit about shit when it comes to the game? Check. Keep stroking, dude. The circle jerk continues ...
The law isn't so simple to where everything comes down to "you signed it, you HAVE to go through with it".
You would be very wrong... unless you are very rich.
While a contract cannot force you to do something illegal, they can in many ways limit your legal actions. You should read what a car loan limits you to, it's an eye opener, what fees you agree to pay, and what legal rights you give to the loan agency and what rights you sign away.
If you really think you can just back out of a contract because it suddenly does not agree with you.. you would be.. very.. very mistaken.
Some days you gotta grow up and realize the world is not a magical place where you win the day, leave that kind of delusional thinking for in-game stuff.
To coin the Honorable Judge that presided over one of my cases involving a phone contract, "You are liable for the rights you sign away"
It was a very "welcome to adulthood" moment, figured I'd share that with you before you get to hear the same thing from a lawyer or judge, or a collection agency.. which could be worse, depending on the situation.
Your first dramatic mistake is trying to equate a signed written contract to a TOS which did not require active acknowledgment tucked away on a different website than the purchase was made. Your second mistake was not acknowledging that the same hidden(IMHO), unsigned TOS did not even reference Refunds.
You must not have seen the post where @Wellspring showed the Ivory Tower the actual TOS despite their misremembering and stating untrue facts.
Talk about internet lawyering...maybe you should read up a bit on Star Citizen. Here’s a start for you:
Kickstarter has made is clear that you are not entitled to a refund through them, and to use their service you even signed that you have fully understood and agreed to those terms. I hate to say it, but yes, at that point you are no longer entitled to a Refund from Kickstarter, and they would challenge any move to get money back from them directly (which is what a Chargeback would do) because not only do they not have your money any more, as they paid the money out to whatever plight you opted to donate to, they would pay a fine to the credit card company and deal with a negative on their credit profile, something I am going to bet they are very unwilling to do, so we can be pretty sure they would challenge any attempt by anyone made to get money back from them, and the No Refund contract that you signed with them would ensure they would win the exchange, and it would be your credit score that would suffer.
Also they are not gambling, as they do not run any risk factors, they simply are a sounding board for people with projects to ask for donations, Kickstarter does not handle any exchange of goods or services under their ToS (and you signed and agreed that you understood that as well), and they make it clear that you assume all responsibility for what you donate your money too as they do not.
If you want a refund, then bring it up with SBS, and ask, and deal with them directly, but, do not get Kickstarter involved and don't get your credit card company involved unless you bought something directly from SBS.
You're not asking for a refund through them. You're getting a chargeback through them. Read up. It happens quite often. And they get awarded quite often. What happens after that is the question. It works out fine for them as they can pass on the total chargeback to the creator while keeping their original fee from the whole deal anyways.
They absolutely are gambling. No matter what they say, threaten, or write in their ToS, it does not override consumer protection laws. Their gamble is projects that they collect and act as a clearinghouse for will come to fruition. If not? Chargebacks. KS processes the charge and so they eat the chargeback as well. If the product/service has not delivered in a reasonable time or has changed significantly from what it was initially represented as, a chargeback is completely valid and no details provided will change that. They aren't going to fight you or try to drag it to court with a flimsy ToS that counters consumer protection laws. Believe that.
KS isn't some big bad entity to fear like you are attempting to make it seem. At worst, your KS account will be closed and you'll be unable to back anything else. If you're at the point of getting a legitimate chargeback, you're probably willing to pay that price.
I'm not advocating chargebacks by any means. I haven't had to initiate one mostly because I haven't crowdfunded anything. Just saying that they will almost certainly win. The only payment model that explicitly states that chargebacks are not available for crowdfunding due to the very nature of crowdfunding is PayPal. Credit cards and any other service treats crowdfunding exactly like any other product or service. Unless that has changed within the last year or so. There are legal loopholes all over the concept of crowdfunding and the money involved.
Ya know what.
If anyone is stupid enough to think that they can ignore the contracts the sign with a company, they deserve a bad credit score, to warn any other companies to not deal with those kinds of idiots.
Do whatever the you want, sorry for trying to warn you.
The law isn't so simple to where everything comes down to "you signed it, you HAVE to go through with it".
You would be very wrong... unless you are very rich.
While a contract cannot force you to do something illegal, they can in many ways limit your legal actions. You should read what a car loan limits you to, it's an eye opener, what fees you agree to pay, and what legal rights you give to the loan agency and what rights you sign away.
If you really think you can just back out of a contract because it suddenly does not agree with you.. you would be.. very.. very mistaken.
Some days you gotta grow up and realize the world is not a magical place where you win the day, leave that kind of delusional thinking for in-game stuff.
To coin the Honorable Judge that presided over one of my cases involving a phone contract, "You are liable for the rights you sign away"
It was a very "welcome to adulthood" moment, figured I'd share that with you before you get to hear the same thing from a lawyer or judge, or a collection agency.. which could be worse, depending on the situation.
Your first dramatic mistake is trying to equate a signed written contract to a TOS which did not require active acknowledgment tucked away on a different website than the purchase was made. Your second mistake was not acknowledging that the same hidden(IMHO), unsigned TOS did not even reference Refunds.
No. I am not talking about anything SBS said or whatever nonsense or noise he may make, I am not talking about that.
See, what I am talking about is THIS ToS that you had to agree to when you made your Kickstarter Account.
It's pretty clear what they said, and it's a really easy to understand as they seemed to write in really simple language, I guess they get a lot of stupid people maybe, they even went so far as to even bullet-point the key points.
Like this one!
Kickstarter doesn’t offer refunds. Responsibility for finishing a project lies entirely with the project creator. Kickstarter doesn’t hold funds on creators’ behalf, cannot guarantee creators’ work, and does not offer refunds.
Now why this is important, is because Kickstarter is the company that charged your credit card, and thus it would be Kickstarter that would have to pay the money back if you Cashbacked on your credit card. But see you made an agreement with Kickstarter when you made your account with them, that you would not get a refund directly from them.
All KS needs to do is e-mail this ToS (Which you signed when you made your account) to the Credit Card company and you would be declined the Cashback, (yes it would be that easy for them to deny you). What happens after that can either be innocuous to crippling for your credit history.
But you know what.. Ignore me.. Do whatever the hell you want. if you are too stupid to read the contracts you sign, maybe the world is better off with you having a bad credit history to save anyone else the headache of dealing with you.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
Kickstarter has made is clear that you are not entitled to a refund through them, and to use their service you even signed that you have fully understood and agreed to those terms. I hate to say it, but yes, at that point you are no longer entitled to a Refund from Kickstarter, and they would challenge any move to get money back from them directly (which is what a Chargeback would do) because not only do they not have your money any more, as they paid the money out to whatever plight you opted to donate to, they would pay a fine to the credit card company and deal with a negative on their credit profile, something I am going to bet they are very unwilling to do, so we can be pretty sure they would challenge any attempt by anyone made to get money back from them, and the No Refund contract that you signed with them would ensure they would win the exchange, and it would be your credit score that would suffer.
Also they are not gambling, as they do not run any risk factors, they simply are a sounding board for people with projects to ask for donations, Kickstarter does not handle any exchange of goods or services under their ToS (and you signed and agreed that you understood that as well), and they make it clear that you assume all responsibility for what you donate your money too as they do not.
If you want a refund, then bring it up with SBS, and ask, and deal with them directly, but, do not get Kickstarter involved and don't get your credit card company involved unless you bought something directly from SBS.
You're not asking for a refund through them. You're getting a chargeback through them. Read up. It happens quite often. And they get awarded quite often. What happens after that is the question. It works out fine for them as they can pass on the total chargeback to the creator while keeping their original fee from the whole deal anyways.
They absolutely are gambling. No matter what they say, threaten, or write in their ToS, it does not override consumer protection laws. Their gamble is projects that they collect and act as a clearinghouse for will come to fruition. If not? Chargebacks. KS processes the charge and so they eat the chargeback as well. If the product/service has not delivered in a reasonable time or has changed significantly from what it was initially represented as, a chargeback is completely valid and no details provided will change that. They aren't going to fight you or try to drag it to court with a flimsy ToS that counters consumer protection laws. Believe that.
KS isn't some big bad entity to fear like you are attempting to make it seem. At worst, your KS account will be closed and you'll be unable to back anything else. If you're at the point of getting a legitimate chargeback, you're probably willing to pay that price.
I'm not advocating chargebacks by any means. I haven't had to initiate one mostly because I haven't crowdfunded anything. Just saying that they will almost certainly win. The only payment model that explicitly states that chargebacks are not available for crowdfunding due to the very nature of crowdfunding is PayPal. Credit cards and any other service treats crowdfunding exactly like any other product or service. Unless that has changed within the last year or so. There are legal loopholes all over the concept of crowdfunding and the money involved.
Ya know what.
If anyone is stupid enough to think that they can ignore the contracts the sign with a company, they deserve a bad credit score, to warn any other companies to not deal with those kinds of idiots.
Do whatever the you want, sorry for trying to warn you.
The law isn't so simple to where everything comes down to "you signed it, you HAVE to go through with it".
You would be very wrong... unless you are very rich.
While a contract cannot force you to do something illegal, they can in many ways limit your legal actions. You should read what a car loan limits you to, it's an eye opener, what fees you agree to pay, and what legal rights you give to the loan agency and what rights you sign away.
If you really think you can just back out of a contract because it suddenly does not agree with you.. you would be.. very.. very mistaken.
Some days you gotta grow up and realize the world is not a magical place where you win the day, leave that kind of delusional thinking for in-game stuff.
To coin the Honorable Judge that presided over one of my cases involving a phone contract, "You are liable for the rights you sign away"
It was a very "welcome to adulthood" moment, figured I'd share that with you before you get to hear the same thing from a lawyer or judge, or a collection agency.. which could be worse, depending on the situation.
Your first dramatic mistake is trying to equate a signed written contract to a TOS which did not require active acknowledgment tucked away on a different website than the purchase was made. Your second mistake was not acknowledging that the same hidden(IMHO), unsigned TOS did not even reference Refunds.
No. I am not talking about anything SBS said or whatever nonsense or noise he may make, I am not talking about that.
See, what I am talking about is THIS ToS that you had to agree to when you made your Kickstarter Account.
It's pretty clear what they said, and it's a really easy to understand as they seemed to write in really simple language, I guess they get a lot of stupid people maybe, they even went so far as to even bullet-point the key points.
Like this one!
Kickstarter doesn’t offer refunds. Responsibility for finishing a project lies entirely with the project creator. Kickstarter doesn’t hold funds on creators’ behalf, cannot guarantee creators’ work, and does not offer refunds.
Now why this is important, is because Kickstarter is the company that charged your credit card, and thus it would be Kickstarter that would have to pay the money back if you Cashbacked on your credit card. But see you made an agreement with Kickstarter when you made your account with them, that you would not get a refund directly from them.
All KS needs to do is e-mail this ToS (Which you signed when you made your account) to the Credit Card company and you would be declined the Cashback, (yes it would be that easy for them to deny you). What happens after that can either be innocuous to crippling for your credit history.
But you know what.. Ignore me.. Do whatever the hell you want. if you are too stupid to read the contracts you sign, maybe the world is better off with you having a bad credit history to save anyone else the headache of dealing with you.
A citizen can't sign away rights granted by consumer protection laws.
Iselin: And the next person who says "but it's a business, they need to make money" can just go fuck yourself.
Kickstarter has made is clear that you are not entitled to a refund through them, and to use their service you even signed that you have fully understood and agreed to those terms. I hate to say it, but yes, at that point you are no longer entitled to a Refund from Kickstarter, and they would challenge any move to get money back from them directly (which is what a Chargeback would do) because not only do they not have your money any more, as they paid the money out to whatever plight you opted to donate to, they would pay a fine to the credit card company and deal with a negative on their credit profile, something I am going to bet they are very unwilling to do, so we can be pretty sure they would challenge any attempt by anyone made to get money back from them, and the No Refund contract that you signed with them would ensure they would win the exchange, and it would be your credit score that would suffer.
Also they are not gambling, as they do not run any risk factors, they simply are a sounding board for people with projects to ask for donations, Kickstarter does not handle any exchange of goods or services under their ToS (and you signed and agreed that you understood that as well), and they make it clear that you assume all responsibility for what you donate your money too as they do not.
If you want a refund, then bring it up with SBS, and ask, and deal with them directly, but, do not get Kickstarter involved and don't get your credit card company involved unless you bought something directly from SBS.
You're not asking for a refund through them. You're getting a chargeback through them. Read up. It happens quite often. And they get awarded quite often. What happens after that is the question. It works out fine for them as they can pass on the total chargeback to the creator while keeping their original fee from the whole deal anyways.
They absolutely are gambling. No matter what they
KS isn't some big bad entity to fear like you are attempting to make it seem. At worst, your KS account will be closed and you'll be unable to back anything else. If you're at the point of getting a legitimate chargeback, you're probably willing to pay that price.
I'm not advocating chargebacks by any means. I haven't had to initiate one mostly because I haven't crowdfunded anything. Just saying that they will almost certainly win. The only payment model that explicitly states that chargebacks are not available for crowdfunding due to the very nature of crowdfunding is PayPal. Credit cards and any other service treats crowdfunding exactly like any other product or service. Unless that has changed within the last year or so. There are legal loopholes all over the concept of crowdfunding and the money involved.
Ya know what.
If anyone is stupid enough to think that they can ignore the contracts the sign with a company, they deserve a bad credit score, to warn any other companies to not deal with those kinds of idiots.
Do whatever the you want, sorry for trying to warn you.
The law isn't so simple to where everything comes down to "you signed it, you HAVE to go through with it".
You would be very wrong... unless you are very rich.
While a contract cannot force you to do something illegal, they can in many ways limit your legal actions. You should read what a car loan limits you to, it's an eye opener, what fees you agree to pay, and what legal rights you give to the loan agency and what rights you sign away.
If you really think you can just back out of a contract because it suddenly does not agree with you.. you would be.. very.. very mistaken.
Some days you gotta grow up and realize the world is not a magical place where you win the day, leave that kind of delusional thinking for in-game stuff.
To coin the Honorable Judge that presided over one of my cases involving a phone contract, "You are liable for the rights you sign away"
It was a very "welcome to adulthood" moment, figured I'd share that with you before you get to hear the same thing from a lawyer or judge, or a collection agency.. which could be worse, depending on the situation.
Your first dramatic mistake is trying to equate a signed written contract to a TOS which did not require active acknowledgment tucked away on a different website than the purchase was made. Your second mistake was not acknowledging that the same hidden(IMHO), unsigned TOS did not even reference Refunds.
No. I am not talking about anything SBS said or whatever nonsense or noise he may make, I am not talking about that.
See, what I am talking about is THIS ToS that you had to agree to when you made your Kickstarter Account.
It's pretty clear what they said, and it's a really easy to understand as they seemed to write in really simple language, I guess they get a lot of stupid people maybe, they even went so far as to even bullet-point the key points.
Like this one!
Kickstarter doesn’t offer refunds. Responsibility for finishing a project lies entirely with the project creator. Kickstarter doesn’t hold funds on creators’ behalf, cannot guarantee creators’ work, and does not offer refunds.
Now why this is important, is because Kickstarter is the company that charged your credit card, and thus it would be Kickstarter that would have to pay the money back if you Cashbacked on your credit card. But see you made an agreement with Kickstarter when you made your account with them, that you would not get a refund directly from them.
All KS needs to do is e-mail this ToS (Which you signed when you made your account) to the Credit Card company and you would be declined the Cashback, (yes it would be that easy for them to deny you). What happens after that can either be innocuous to crippling for your credit history.
But you know what.. Ignore me.. Do whatever the hell you want. if you are too stupid to read the contracts you sign, maybe the world is better off with you having a bad credit history to save anyone else the headache of dealing with you.
A citizen can't sign away rights granted by consumer protection laws.
He is either unwilling or unable to grasp this simple concept. Anyone interested can simply look up Star Citizen.
Heck as I said earlier. Mortal Online was massively delayed and had a “No refund” TOS. I simply opened a claim with my card company. I sent them the estimated delivery date and the update from the company related to delays. A week or so later I was refunded.
Im not advocating people should to that. I think refunds would be a death sentence for the company. But the fearmongering attempt is pathetic.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
A citizen can't sign away rights granted by consumer protection laws.
He is either unwilling or unable to grasp this simple concept. Anyone interested can simply look up Star Citizen.
Heck as I said earlier. Mortal Online was massively delayed and had a “No refund” TOS. I simply opened a claim with my card company. I sent them the estimated delivery date and the update from the company related to delays. A week or so later I was refunded.
Im not advocating people should to that. I think refunds would be a death sentence for the company. But the fearmongering attempt is pathetic.
Really, this is such a simple basic concept that it's like this in almost EVERY COUNTRY IN THE WORLD that has consumer protection laws. Yet despite EVERYONE ELSE in the thread (as well as the entire friggin' world in terms of countries) pointing this out and grasping this simple concept, he continues to argue against it. Some people just refuse to open their eyes, alas.
Heck as I said earlier. Mortal Online was massively delayed and had a “No refund” TOS. I simply opened a claim with my card company. I sent them the estimated delivery date and the update from the company related to delays. A week or so later I was refunded.
You got that from funds sent directly to Mortal Online right?
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
A citizen can't sign away rights granted by consumer protection laws.
Yes you can. Sorry to break that to you, but you can. I mean, Did you ever read your credit card ToS, you will see all kinds of legal limitations on what you can and can't do with them. don't believe me. Take some time one day to read you CC ToS.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
I gotta ask, do all of you walk though life with your heads up your collective asses, signing whatever the hell and not reading anything with some delusional wacko belief that the law will protect you from your own stupidity?
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
I gotta ask, do all of you walk though life with your heads up your collective asses, signing whatever the hell and not reading anything with some delusional wacko belief that the law will protect you from your own stupidity?
I do !!!!
LOL
"Sean (Murray) saying MP will be in the game is not remotely close to evidence that at the point of purchase people thought there was MP in the game." - SEANMCAD
A citizen can't sign away rights granted by consumer protection laws.
Yes you can. Sorry to break that to you, but you can. I mean, Did you ever read your credit card ToS, you will see all kinds of legal limitations on what you can and can't do with them. don't believe me. Take some time one day to read you CC ToS.
No you can't.
Those are called mandatory rules: "Mandatory rule is a legal rule that is not subject to contrary agreement. It is a legal rule which is in all cases binding and cannot be departed from by agreement between the parties concerned" https://definitions.uslegal.com/m/mandatory-rule/
The legislators have intentionally made both the kind laws that you can agree otherwise on if you wish, and the kind of laws which are so important that no contrary agreement can be made.
We'll help resolve payment-card disputes. If a backer of your project disputes the charge with their card issuer, we'll handle re-presenting the charge to settle the dispute with the card issuer. You’ll be notified that a dispute has been filed, and you’ll be able to provide evidence to help us resolve it in your favor. If the cardholder’s dispute is found valid, you authorize us to charge the credit card number you provided when you started your project for the amount of the chargeback.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
A citizen can't sign away rights granted by consumer protection laws.
Yes you can. Sorry to break that to you, but you can. I mean, Did you ever read your credit card ToS, you will see all kinds of legal limitations on what you can and can't do with them. don't believe me. Take some time one day to read you CC ToS.
Wow... stunning.
Ok. Will you believe the American Bar Association?
I just made a new account. They use Browsewrap on Kickstarter.
How many facts does it take? Do you think you have a better legal mind than the American Bar Association? That’s just stating in general that Browsewrap TOS are unenforceable. Not even getting into the idea of a TOS overriding other legal protections.
I don’t know about the rest of the thread but Im done explaining basic concepts to you.
Harbingers have better things to do. I’ll spend my energy on those willing to be saved.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
A citizen can't sign away rights granted by consumer protection laws.
Yes you can. Sorry to break that to you, but you can. I mean, Did you ever read your credit card ToS, you will see all kinds of legal limitations on what you can and can't do with them. don't believe me. Take some time one day to read you CC ToS.
No you can't.
Those are called mandatory rules: "Mandatory rule is a legal rule that is not subject to contrary agreement. It is a legal rule which is in all cases binding and cannot be departed from by agreement between the parties concerned" https://definitions.uslegal.com/m/mandatory-rule/
The legislators have intentionally made both the kind laws that you can agree otherwise on if you wish, and the kind of laws which are so important that no contrary agreement can be made.
LOL. Do you even know which is which?
Let me give you an example. You buy a car, and know that there is a "Lemon law" that protects the quality of any new car you get, IE: It protects you from Fraud, you can't sign this away. Congrats!
Amazing how that works, you feel protected right!.. however.. regardless of if you got a lemon or not, The dealer is ONLY responsible for the car, not any lost wages or other issues that may arise due to any problems with the car, and you signed a contract to such with them. While without that contract you might have been able to sue them for lost time or wages, with that contract now says you can't, it limits their liberality to you.
Also, you signed the contract that says they will not refund you, they will either fix or replace the car, but under no situation will they refund your money. So you are left with the option to have them fix the car or give you a replacement car, but you can't return the car and say I want my money back.
You don't like this.. because after some ample time in the shop the car is more trouble to you then you think it's worth, and you just want your money back to go buy another car.
Yes they are fixing it under warranty and all that, but you are missing days of work due to the car breaking down on you, and you think the loaner is ugly.
So you just want your money back. They explain that the contract says "no refunds" that they will repair or replace the car, but they will not give you your money back.
How do you think that ends, do you think you can just Cashaback on the card, to hell what the contract says?
If you think yes.. The adult world is not going to be an easy place for you.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
State of the Studio = the game isn't finished yet and they're still working on it
/thread
Or keep circle jerking to speculation. Don't stop on my account. Keep your towels handy and stroke away.
But the studio pretty much is.
Is what? Still making the game? Check. Not dead yet? Check. So you don't really know shit about shit when it comes to the game? Check. Keep stroking, dude. The circle jerk continues ...
There is plenty of evidence to anyone who opens their eyes.
Game developers can't just swap one game engine out for a cheaper one if they have done any coding already. It doesn't work that way. It's not like a car engine that is bolted in, It's more like the foundation of a building. You don't start coding and then say.."Welp there is a more cost effective engine solution" and swap over to that new solution unless you do it before any major coding happens. In other words COE is over before it began.
So there is some known shit about shit when it comes to the game.
State of the Studio = the game isn't finished yet and they're still working on it
/thread
Or keep circle jerking to speculation. Don't stop on my account. Keep your towels handy and stroke away.
But the studio pretty much is.
Is what? Still making the game? Check. Not dead yet? Check. So you don't really know shit about shit when it comes to the game? Check. Keep stroking, dude. The circle jerk continues ...
There is plenty of evidence to anyone who opens their eyes.
Game developers can't just swap one game engine out for a cheaper one if they have done any coding already. It doesn't work that way. It's not like a car engine that is bolted in, It's more like the foundation of a building. You don't start coding and then say.."Welp there is a more cost effective engine solution" and swap over to that new solution unless you do it before any major coding happens. In other words COE is over before it began.
So there is some known shit about shit when it comes to the game.
To be honest, I don't have a cent put into this game, it's a cool idea of growing old and dying, and maybe other games might adopt that idea if CoE fails and can't hold the rights to it.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
State of the Studio = the game isn't finished yet and they're still working on it
/thread
Or keep circle jerking to speculation. Don't stop on my account. Keep your towels handy and stroke away.
But the studio pretty much is.
Is what? Still making the game? Check. Not dead yet? Check. So you don't really know shit about shit when it comes to the game? Check. Keep stroking, dude. The circle jerk continues ...
There is plenty of evidence to anyone who opens their eyes.
Game developers can't just swap one game engine out for a cheaper one if they have done any coding already. It doesn't work that way. It's not like a car engine that is bolted in, It's more like the foundation of a building. You don't start coding and then say.."Welp there is a more cost effective engine solution" and swap over to that new solution unless you do it before any major coding happens. In other words COE is over before it began.
So there is some known shit about shit when it comes to the game.
To be honest, I don't have a cent put into this game, it's a cool idea of growing old and dying, and maybe other games might adopt that idea if CoE fails and can't hold the rights to it.
My understanding is this is just a monetization meant as an alternative to something like a subscription model. While I admit, it's a new and unique approach, I have never once seen or heard of an in-game mechanic tied to monetization that was beneficial to the player.
The idea as pitched sounds interesting, but every game I have ever seen tells me that if a mechanic, by which you are expected to pay for the game's use, is incorporated into game play, its implementation will not be enjoyable.
State of the Studio = the game isn't finished yet and they're still working on it
/thread
Or keep circle jerking to speculation. Don't stop on my account. Keep your towels handy and stroke away.
But the studio pretty much is.
Is what? Still making the game? Check. Not dead yet? Check. So you don't really know shit about shit when it comes to the game? Check. Keep stroking, dude. The circle jerk continues ...
There is plenty of evidence to anyone who opens their eyes.
Game developers can't just swap one game engine out for a cheaper one if they have done any coding already. It doesn't work that way. It's not like a car engine that is bolted in, It's more like the foundation of a building. You don't start coding and then say.."Welp there is a more cost effective engine solution" and swap over to that new solution unless you do it before any major coding happens. In other words COE is over before it began.
So there is some known shit about shit when it comes to the game.
To be honest, I don't have a cent put into this game, it's a cool idea of growing old and dying, and maybe other games might adopt that idea if CoE fails and can't hold the rights to it.
My understanding is this is just a monetization meant as an alternative to something like a subscription model. While I admit, it's a new and unique approach, I have never once seen or heard of an in-game mechanic tied to monetization that was beneficial to the player.
The idea as pitched sounds interesting, but every game I have ever seen tells me that if a mechanic, by which you are expected to pay for the game's use, is incorporated into game play, its implementation will not be enjoyable.
Well, for me, I used to play another MUD (back in the day) and it had character age, even day and time of the "world" so that you would see and feel time pass in the game. In a lot of modern MMO's you feel stuck in stasis, nothing changes, play the game for 10 years, which equates to 100 game years, and your character and the game world look the same, it builds a feeling of anything you do is pointless.
But to build a sandbox world where you can change the landscape, I just seems fitting that your character should change as well. growing older and even dying. An older MMO Istaria did something along these lines, with dragons growing up.
I thought the idea was ground breaking, but too before its time and the game as a whole flopped. However, with CoE, you build a world, and you grow into that world.. and you set a path for your children.. and their children.. it feels like time is passing.. that life is happening.
In that world.. my character won't feel like a mannequin or Barbie™ doll, it will feel like something as alive and changeable as the wold around it.
From what I could see, hair would grow, beards would grow, looks would change, amazing idea.. really.
If they don' pull it off tho.. I hope someone else does.. For example a game like Conan Exiles could be a great game to adopt this kind of feature, in fact, any decent survival game might do well to integrate this type of aging feature, Where death is real.. and inevitable.. just like life.
It's a Brilliant idea.. the rest of the game.. kinda meh about, the parkor is a nice touch, not sure how well he will pull that off, which is why I have not put money into it. It does seem like it's going to be another Eternal Crusade, where they make a decent game, but it nowhere near what they promised and this..it is received as shit by association of what it should have been.
But I love the idea of aging in a game.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
that's exactly what I meant, not wanting to start any drama with my post in here.
Thanks for warning me, regarding the credit card ranking. I'm not scared about it. I didn't did anything fraudulent. Just asked for a refund, having a real reason for it.
I asked politely SBS directly (email) for a refund explaining them my claim (not on the forum @Slapshot1188). They said no. It's ok. It's written down in their term of conditions which I accepted. That's why I now tried to get my money in another way back (it was already declined by Xsolla - I won't get anything).
By the way - I think that that kind of term of conditions should be forbidden by the law. They present you a project, selling you their ideas, what they want to do and how they want to do it. You like their ideas - it looks conform to what you are looking for - so you give them your money, trusting them. A few months later, they change the main selling agurment without asking anybody - it's ok if they give you the option of a refund. But they don't.
Concerning their changes:
What's that kind of management? Do you think they got the pricelist of SpatialOS, one year after concluding a partnership with them? They did exactly know that it doesn't fit in their financial plan and thy could never pay for it (without publisher - I know it was also a financial issues - it's written in their response I got). That's what makes me so angry.
I think it's kind of easy to setup that kind of term of conditions. "We take your money (which maybe took you some time to take aside), but hey...if we change something to the product, change considerably the release date, or worst case, don't even deliver you something - not our problem. We don't mind" In my eyes that has nothing to do with a community oriented studio.
I tried it, without any success. What could have been the price to pay? A blocked account without any refund? Maybe - I don't mind - I'm not interested in CoE anymore. So if they now blocked my account (didn't checked it) without giving me anything, I don't regret my choice. I tried it. I don't wanna play a game, created by such developers.
All of you criticizing my try getting a refund, aren't maybe like I am. I'm against injustice. I have a moral. And for me, presenting a project, protected by such term of conditions, which considerably changes while a lot of people already invested money in it (without giving us an option of refund) has nothing to do with moral. That's why SBS died now for me.
With this last words I wanna wish you all a nice evening.
PS: if you find grammatically incorrect phrases, wrong written words - English isn't my main language.
I don’t want to get too deep into the weeds on game mechanics in this thread but while I like the concept of ageing at a high level, tying it to real money is just going to kick griefing to a higher level. People complain about getting ganked... now when you get ganked it’s costing you money... (plus all the normal pain like lost items that are looted from you ). On top of all that... your character never logs out... so while you’re gone guess what Seamus McCrotchface is doing to your character?
Tying monetization to a pain point is a bad idea.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
that's exactly what I meant, not wanting to start any drama with my post in here.
Thanks for warning me, regarding the credit card ranking. I'm not scared about it. I didn't did anything fraudulent. Just asked for a refund, having a real reason for it.
I asked politely SBS directly (email) for a refund explaining them my claim (not on the forum @Slapshot1188). They said no. It's ok. It's written down in their term of conditions which I accepted. That's why I now tried to get my money in another way back (it was already declined by Xsolla - I won't get anything).
By the way - I think that that kind of term of conditions should be forbidden by the law. They present you a project, selling you their ideas, what they want to do and how they want to do it. You like their ideas - it looks conform to what you are looking for - so you give them your money, trusting them. A few months later, they change the main selling agurment without asking anybody - it's ok if they give you the option of a refund. But they don't.
Concerning their changes:
What's that kind of management? Do you think they got the pricelist of SpatialOS, one year after concluding a partnership with them? They did exactly know that it doesn't fit in their financial plan and thy could never pay for it (without publisher - I know it was also a financial issues - it's written in their response I got). That's what makes me so angry.
I think it's kind of easy to setup that kind of term of conditions. "We take your money (which maybe took you some time to take aside), but hey...if we change something to the product, change considerably the release date, or worst case, don't even deliver you something - not our problem. We don't mind" In my eyes that has nothing to do with a community oriented studio.
I tried it, without any success. What could have been the price to pay? A blocked account without any refund? Maybe - I don't mind - I'm not interested in CoE anymore. So if they now blocked my account (didn't checked it) without giving me anything, I don't regret my choice. I tried it. I don't wanna play a game, created by such developers.
All of you criticizing my try getting a refund, aren't maybe like I am. I'm against injustice. I have a moral. And for me, presenting a project, protected by such term of conditions, which considerably changes while a lot of people already invested money in it (without giving us an option of refund) has nothing to do with moral. That's why SBS died now for me.
With this last words I wanna wish you all a nice evening.
PS: if you find grammatically incorrect phrases, wrong written words - English isn't my main language.
You are Russian? (Inferred by your use of Xsolla)
Might explain their ability to so quickly decline you.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Comments
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
You must not have seen the post where @Wellspring showed the Ivory Tower the actual TOS despite their misremembering and stating untrue facts.
Talk about internet lawyering...maybe you should read up a bit on Star Citizen. Here’s a start for you:
https://www.polygon.com/2016/7/15/12198614/how-one-frustrated-star-citizen-backer-got-thousands-of-dollars
https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen_refunds/comments/77bv0x/where_to_file_a_refund_complaint_against_roberts/
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Ya know what.
If anyone is stupid enough to think that they can ignore the contracts the sign with a company, they deserve a bad credit score, to warn any other companies to not deal with those kinds of idiots.
Do whatever the you want, sorry for trying to warn you.
No. I am not talking about anything SBS said or whatever nonsense or noise he may make, I am not talking about that.
See, what I am talking about is THIS ToS that you had to agree to when you made your Kickstarter Account.
It's pretty clear what they said, and it's a really easy to understand as they seemed to write in really simple language, I guess they get a lot of stupid people maybe, they even went so far as to even bullet-point the key points.
Like this one!
- Kickstarter doesn’t offer refunds. Responsibility for finishing a project lies entirely with the project creator. Kickstarter doesn’t hold funds on creators’ behalf, cannot guarantee creators’ work, and does not offer refunds.
Now why this is important, is because Kickstarter is the company that charged your credit card, and thus it would be Kickstarter that would have to pay the money back if you Cashbacked on your credit card. But see you made an agreement with Kickstarter when you made your account with them, that you would not get a refund directly from them.All KS needs to do is e-mail this ToS (Which you signed when you made your account) to the Credit Card company and you would be declined the Cashback, (yes it would be that easy for them to deny you). What happens after that can either be innocuous to crippling for your credit history.
But you know what.. Ignore me.. Do whatever the hell you want. if you are too stupid to read the contracts you sign, maybe the world is better off with you having a bad credit history to save anyone else the headache of dealing with you.
Heck as I said earlier. Mortal Online was massively delayed and had a “No refund” TOS. I simply opened a claim with my card company. I sent them the estimated delivery date and the update from the company related to delays. A week or so later I was refunded.
Im not advocating people should to that. I think refunds would be a death sentence for the company. But the fearmongering attempt is pathetic.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Really, this is such a simple basic concept that it's like this in almost EVERY COUNTRY IN THE WORLD that has consumer protection laws. Yet despite EVERYONE ELSE in the thread (as well as the entire friggin' world in terms of countries) pointing this out and grasping this simple concept, he continues to argue against it. Some people just refuse to open their eyes, alas.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
LOL
Those are called mandatory rules:
"Mandatory rule is a legal rule that is not subject to contrary agreement. It is a legal rule which is in all cases binding and cannot be departed from by agreement between the parties concerned"
https://definitions.uslegal.com/m/mandatory-rule/
There are also default rules, which are rules that are used only when the parties haven't agreed anything other.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Default_rule
The legislators have intentionally made both the kind laws that you can agree otherwise on if you wish, and the kind of laws which are so important that no contrary agreement can be made.
- We'll help resolve payment-card disputes. If a backer of your project disputes the charge with their card issuer, we'll handle re-presenting the charge to settle the dispute with the card issuer. You’ll be notified that a dispute has been filed, and you’ll be able to provide evidence to help us resolve it in your favor. If the cardholder’s dispute is found valid, you authorize us to charge the credit card number you provided when you started your project for the amount of the chargeback.
https://www.kickstarter.com/section4?ref=faq-basics_creatorproblems"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Ok. Will you believe the American Bar Association?
https://www.americanbar.org/publications/communications_lawyer/2015/january/click_here.html
I just made a new account. They use Browsewrap on Kickstarter.
How many facts does it take? Do you think you have a better legal mind than the American Bar Association? That’s just stating in general that Browsewrap TOS are unenforceable. Not even getting into the idea of a TOS overriding other legal protections.
I don’t know about the rest of the thread but Im done explaining basic concepts to you.
Harbingers have better things to do. I’ll spend my energy on those willing to be saved.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Let me give you an example. You buy a car, and know that there is a "Lemon law" that protects the quality of any new car you get, IE: It protects you from Fraud, you can't sign this away. Congrats!
Amazing how that works, you feel protected right!.. however.. regardless of if you got a lemon or not, The dealer is ONLY responsible for the car, not any lost wages or other issues that may arise due to any problems with the car, and you signed a contract to such with them. While without that contract you might have been able to sue them for lost time or wages, with that contract now says you can't, it limits their liberality to you.
Also, you signed the contract that says they will not refund you, they will either fix or replace the car, but under no situation will they refund your money. So you are left with the option to have them fix the car or give you a replacement car, but you can't return the car and say I want my money back.
You don't like this.. because after some ample time in the shop the car is more trouble to you then you think it's worth, and you just want your money back to go buy another car.
Yes they are fixing it under warranty and all that, but you are missing days of work due to the car breaking down on you, and you think the loaner is ugly.
So you just want your money back. They explain that the contract says "no refunds" that they will repair or replace the car, but they will not give you your money back.
How do you think that ends, do you think you can just Cashaback on the card, to hell what the contract says?
If you think yes.. The adult world is not going to be an easy place for you.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Game developers can't just swap one game engine out for a cheaper one if they have done any coding already. It doesn't work that way. It's not like a car engine that is bolted in, It's more like the foundation of a building. You don't start coding and then say.."Welp there is a more cost effective engine solution" and swap over to that new solution unless you do it before any major coding happens. In other words COE is over before it began.
So there is some known shit about shit when it comes to the game.
The idea as pitched sounds interesting, but every game I have ever seen tells me that if a mechanic, by which you are expected to pay for the game's use, is incorporated into game play, its implementation will not be enjoyable.
But to build a sandbox world where you can change the landscape, I just seems fitting that your character should change as well. growing older and even dying. An older MMO Istaria did something along these lines, with dragons growing up.
I thought the idea was ground breaking, but too before its time and the game as a whole flopped. However, with CoE, you build a world, and you grow into that world.. and you set a path for your children.. and their children.. it feels like time is passing.. that life is happening.
In that world.. my character won't feel like a mannequin or Barbie™ doll, it will feel like something as alive and changeable as the wold around it.
From what I could see, hair would grow, beards would grow, looks would change, amazing idea.. really.
If they don' pull it off tho.. I hope someone else does.. For example a game like Conan Exiles could be a great game to adopt this kind of feature, in fact, any decent survival game might do well to integrate this type of aging feature, Where death is real.. and inevitable.. just like life.
It's a Brilliant idea.. the rest of the game.. kinda meh about, the parkor is a nice touch, not sure how well he will pull that off, which is why I have not put money into it. It does seem like it's going to be another Eternal Crusade, where they make a decent game, but it nowhere near what they promised and this..it is received as shit by association of what it should have been.
But I love the idea of aging in a game.
Tying monetization to a pain point is a bad idea.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Might explain their ability to so quickly decline you.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon