Took a screen shot. Anyway check the website, sure it's the $10,000 that gets pre-alpha.
As for my stance it can be both, but let's not pretend people are not buying into pre-alpha.
I'm sure there are nice guys who just want to buy $1000 dollar pens and skip the "free gift" as well.
Pre alpha slots were offered as an incentive for cheaper prices on their kickstarter but it came with a caveat that you must be ready to test and submit good feedback otherwise you could be removed and it came with an NDA
Actually it looks like on the website only the $10,000 package includes pre-alpha. Anyone else see that?
I'm assuming you don't know what happened during the failed kickstarter so I'll explain everything from the beginning up until this point and why the pre-alpha access costs 10k.
The pre-alpha access was a reward from the original failed kickstarter, it costed 300€, but when the kickstarter failed they decided to keep the project going and moved to the current website where they set up the pledge system and matched the original kickstarter rewards if you could prove participation on the kickstarter.
So even though the price went up the people that had already pledge during the kickstarter still got the rewards from the 1k tier, hence why it's the "top seller" even though most people got it for 300€ they still listed it as a 1k sale because it had the same rewards.
In december 2016 they also increased the price of alpha access from 150€ to 250€ (if I'm not mistaken), because they didn't want more people joining in on alpha testing. Something similar happened in december 2017, when they anounced the removal of the 1k pre-alpha access 1 months prior to it's removal because they're finally entering pre-alpha testing.
Keep in mind that his is actuall game testing, not an early access where the game is mostly finished and the players buy to play it ahead of time, the game is mostly unfinished and the testers are expect to test what the devs wants, give useful feedback, and not fuck around all day. The same will apply to the alpha, and beta testing to a lesser extent.
This is basically a long term kickstarter reward. At the $1000 tier you get access to pre-alpha.
Good job Lasterba,
It seems people are thinking greedy "here's my money, give me everything in return"
By giving a $1000 your saying "I believe in your cause, here's some money, I'll help you make a game"
Access to pre-alpha is a SMALL GIFT in return !!! It's no different than giving large sums of money to a charity and they give you a small red plastic flower that you could pin on your jacket.... meaning thank you !
People here seem to look at it this way "here's a $1000, give me a $1000 back"
That's about as believable as a prostitute who sells $1000 dollar pens with a "FREE GIFT" saying nobody did it for the sex.
what a skewed outlook on life that you have.
In any case, if one were to give to the Lyric stage you would get benefits:
Aren't those non-profits or not-for-profits where your donation is tax deductible? It's not the same thing at all.
It doesn't matter what you call it, that's just semantics. They're selling something for a price, what they use it for is irrelevant.
Yes they are not for profit.
I still see it as the same thing because though Pantheon will be a for profit game/endeavor, it's creation is up in the air. For those who believe in it they can give money. If they really believe in it they can become actual investors.
And if one gives money why shouldn't they get some sort of perks?
You're framing this as a donation, which it isn't, but barring that I agree that if an exchange of currency takes place (business transaction) then it should be beneficial to both parties.
Oh no, I'm not framing it as a donation at all. I AM framing it as an "an exchange of currency ... should be beneficial to both parties".
I just used examples that I knew of where one party gives money and gets benefits for giving money.
I suppose I could look at for profits as well but I think the point was pretty much made.
Now what if that system is detrimental to the overall birth and development of the community and game. And going back to Lasterba's point, that doesn't invalidate that selling alpha for $1k sounds ridiculous or is problematic. My point being that I think the way indie crowd-funding is evolving is bad for the community and genre overall.
The landscape is taking shape where only the rich supporters develop the game and the poor supporters get whatever. That can't end up well. It didn't work out for Shroud at all. It really didn't work out for Repop either.
A few rich people funding and creating a game to their tastes is how AAA development works. Indie development is not so slowly adopting the same pattern as AAA development. Indie devs have been sending the PR message they care about the MMO community, but the fact is if they could all secure Angel funding without dealing with the dirty masses they would. Much like the arts, they only care about reaching their funding goal and making those happy who can make that possible.
I have a problem with that because I think it creates a poor environment for community participation and inclusion and that will affect the project focus and design.
I agree with this sentiment. Money is becoming (if it already hasn't become) a dividing factor in game development. Those that donate are viewed as a step above the ordinary customer paying face-value. What is happening now is equating money with ideas or skills, when applied to testing. There's no correlation between being able to give away money and having the skills (or discipline) to find software issues.
The subset of the community with money to burn contains the people the developers are trusting and listening to. It's divisive from the start. We saw similar influence on game development from the Big Guilds over EQ1's history. It's pretty likely that Pantheon will follow a similar path. Suppose someone offers VR $250,000 today, with the only condition of including some controversial feature, like fast travel or a cash shop. Would VR take that money? How about $500,000 or $1,000,000?
The motives for why an individual gives money isn't the issue. It can be altruism, supporting a cause, wanting to see what's happening, hoping to influence decisions, or a misguided belief that their character will be ahead of everyone else -- it really doesn't matter. The developer is willing to take money from customers before they have a product finished, all under the guise of 'investing'.
The segregation of the community has begun.
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
Big pledgers get to participate early, but the direction of the game has not change. Everyone's feedback is heard. Even this forums has had communication with the developers and their input considered.
The implication that somehow it's people with big pocketbooks controlling the direction of Pantheon is unsupported by the facts.
I am waiting till release, maybe a short beta (1-2 weeks) before release. I talked to too many people that played Alpha of recent games that took 1+ years to release, and I think it ruined release for them a little.
As for this money/influence debate, you do realize that all these cash shop games base the direction on what will make people spend more money...Not what is best for the majority of the players. I play Archeage, and some guy on the EU server bought over 500 pounds worth of game currency today (APEX) and sold it to my cross server alt accounts (Which I use to get patron/credits to transfer gold back to my NA guys). I am f2p in AA, but it isn't uncommon for people to drop 500-1000+ in AA, due to the way the game is set up (It is a huge slot machine for peoples gold/cash to make/upgrade gear). So people put money in before or after, at least before, you get a idea of what the game will be about, before you spend money to buy it (if you are worried about this), if it is after, you may of already spent your money.
I am waiting till release, maybe a short beta (1-2 weeks) before release. I talked to too many people that played Alpha of recent games that took 1+ years to release, and I think it ruined release for them a little.
As for this money/influence debate, you do realize that all these cash shop games base the direction on what will make people spend more money...Not what is best for the majority of the players. I play Archeage, and some guy on the EU server bought over 500 pounds worth of game currency today (APEX) and sold it to my cross server alt accounts (Which I use to get patron/credits to transfer gold back to my NA guys). I am f2p in AA, but it isn't uncommon for people to drop 500-1000+ in AA, due to the way the game is set up (It is a huge slot machine for peoples gold/cash to make/upgrade gear). So people put money in before or after, at least before, you get a idea of what the game will be about, before you spend money to buy it (if you are worried about this), if it is after, you may of already spent your money.
Good thing Pantheon removed its cash shop a while ago and hopefully it never returns (cosmetic would be fine)
I am waiting till release, maybe a short beta (1-2 weeks) before release. I talked to too many people that played Alpha of recent games that took 1+ years to release, and I think it ruined release for them a little.
As for this money/influence debate, you do realize that all these cash shop games base the direction on what will make people spend more money...Not what is best for the majority of the players. I play Archeage, and some guy on the EU server bought over 500 pounds worth of game currency today (APEX) and sold it to my cross server alt accounts (Which I use to get patron/credits to transfer gold back to my NA guys). I am f2p in AA, but it isn't uncommon for people to drop 500-1000+ in AA, due to the way the game is set up (It is a huge slot machine for peoples gold/cash to make/upgrade gear). So people put money in before or after, at least before, you get a idea of what the game will be about, before you spend money to buy it (if you are worried about this), if it is after, you may of already spent your money.
Good thing Pantheon removed its cash shop a while ago and hopefully it never returns (cosmetic would be fine)
I'm pretty sure pantheon never had a cash shop in the first place.
I am waiting till release, maybe a short beta (1-2 weeks) before release. I talked to too many people that played Alpha of recent games that took 1+ years to release, and I think it ruined release for them a little.
As for this money/influence debate, you do realize that all these cash shop games base the direction on what will make people spend more money...Not what is best for the majority of the players. I play Archeage, and some guy on the EU server bought over 500 pounds worth of game currency today (APEX) and sold it to my cross server alt accounts (Which I use to get patron/credits to transfer gold back to my NA guys). I am f2p in AA, but it isn't uncommon for people to drop 500-1000+ in AA, due to the way the game is set up (It is a huge slot machine for peoples gold/cash to make/upgrade gear). So people put money in before or after, at least before, you get a idea of what the game will be about, before you spend money to buy it (if you are worried about this), if it is after, you may of already spent your money.
Good thing Pantheon removed its cash shop a while ago and hopefully it never returns (cosmetic would be fine)
I'm pretty sure pantheon never had a cash shop in the first place.
They did. They sold things like wt reducing backpacks and something similar to Jboots and other stuff I can’t remember but they chose to remove it in order to remove the ability for people to buy an advantage.
I remember the days where you didn't have to pay to test games for companies who don't use standard QA testing. Those were the days!
You people are making me laugh, its really easy to understand. VR is not a giant company with unlimited funds. $1000 pledges are donations, and a reward for donating that much VR is saying "thank you" and letting you into a testing phase to get a peak at the game while they are building it. Without those donations there would be no game for anyone to ever get a peak.... It's really that simple...
I am waiting till release, maybe a short beta (1-2 weeks) before release. I talked to too many people that played Alpha of recent games that took 1+ years to release, and I think it ruined release for them a little.
As for this money/influence debate, you do realize that all these cash shop games base the direction on what will make people spend more money...Not what is best for the majority of the players. I play Archeage, and some guy on the EU server bought over 500 pounds worth of game currency today (APEX) and sold it to my cross server alt accounts (Which I use to get patron/credits to transfer gold back to my NA guys). I am f2p in AA, but it isn't uncommon for people to drop 500-1000+ in AA, due to the way the game is set up (It is a huge slot machine for peoples gold/cash to make/upgrade gear). So people put money in before or after, at least before, you get a idea of what the game will be about, before you spend money to buy it (if you are worried about this), if it is after, you may of already spent your money.
Good thing Pantheon removed its cash shop a while ago and hopefully it never returns (cosmetic would be fine)
I'm pretty sure pantheon never had a cash shop in the first place.
They did. They sold things like wt reducing backpacks and something similar to Jboots and other stuff I can’t remember but they chose to remove it in order to remove the ability for people to buy an advantage.
They didn't do it so people couldn't buy an advantage. If that was important they wouldn't have added them in the first place. They did it so people can't nail them for P2W. If they could get away with it again they'd do it in a heartbeat.
The problem with fans of indie projects is they think these projects operate on some better moral foundation. They don't. They were all AAA people doing that sort of money thing. They will charge and sell what they think their demographic and market will bear both financially and socially.
If the goalposts move tomorrow because "loot crates" are the new bad thing and people are suddenly okay with people buying items in a cash shop, even items of use like JBoots or mounts, then any of these projects will sell stuff that way. If you think I'm reaching go through and read some of the loot crate discussions. People told me they're okay with MMO cash shops that sell $100 houses and $50 mounts and would rather have that than loot crates.
Either you have a cash shop and sell digital crap in it, or you don't. If these guys have a sub and a cash shop then it will be a sub + cash shop game pure and simple, not a real P2P sub game. Remember how ZOS and ANet started their mild cash shops in ESO and GW2? Watch out for that again here.
Hopefully they won't have a cash shop at all, period. Not one in the game and not one on their site.
No cash shop would be ideal in my world as well but if they did put one in I would hope it was for cosmetics only and stayed that way. Of course hope and reality usually never intersect when it comes to mo eh and games
I am waiting till release, maybe a short beta (1-2 weeks) before release. I talked to too many people that played Alpha of recent games that took 1+ years to release, and I think it ruined release for them a little.
As for this money/influence debate, you do realize that all these cash shop games base the direction on what will make people spend more money...Not what is best for the majority of the players. I play Archeage, and some guy on the EU server bought over 500 pounds worth of game currency today (APEX) and sold it to my cross server alt accounts (Which I use to get patron/credits to transfer gold back to my NA guys). I am f2p in AA, but it isn't uncommon for people to drop 500-1000+ in AA, due to the way the game is set up (It is a huge slot machine for peoples gold/cash to make/upgrade gear). So people put money in before or after, at least before, you get a idea of what the game will be about, before you spend money to buy it (if you are worried about this), if it is after, you may of already spent your money.
Good thing Pantheon removed its cash shop a while ago and hopefully it never returns (cosmetic would be fine)
I'm pretty sure pantheon never had a cash shop in the first place.
They did. They sold things like wt reducing backpacks and something similar to Jboots and other stuff I can’t remember but they chose to remove it in order to remove the ability for people to buy an advantage.
They didn't do it so people couldn't buy an advantage. If that was important they wouldn't have added them in the first place. They did it so people can't nail them for P2W. If they could get away with it again they'd do it in a heartbeat.
The problem with fans of indie projects is they think these projects operate on some better moral foundation. They don't. They were all AAA people doing that sort of money thing. They will charge and sell what they think their demographic and market will bear both financially and socially.
If the goalposts move tomorrow because "loot crates" are the new bad thing and people are suddenly okay with people buying items in a cash shop, even items of use like JBoots or mounts, then any of these projects will sell stuff that way. If you think I'm reaching go through and read some of the loot crate discussions. People told me they're okay with MMO cash shops that sell $100 houses and $50 mounts and would rather have that than loot crates.
Either you have a cash shop and sell digital crap in it, or you don't. If these guys have a sub and a cash shop then it will be a sub + cash shop game pure and simple, not a real P2P sub game. Remember how ZOS and ANet started their mild cash shops in ESO and GW2? Watch out for that again here.
Hopefully they won't have a cash shop at all, period. Not one in the game and not one on their site.
I think the phrase is 'whatever the market will bear'. It seems that Pantheon is investigating the corners of exactly what the preliminary market will accept. Pay-to-test seems to be in, big time. They already tried a cash shop concept; I believe one of the critical things the pre-alpha testing will help determine is precisely how much leniency VR will have for the most likely inevitable cash shop.
If they don't have a cash shop, many members on this site will be happy, myself included. But I couldn't help but wonder how much money VR is going to be willing to leave 'on the table' in order to appease the hard-core fans. Maybe they'll offer a post-launch pay-to-test bonus donation. That would be innovative, but not the kind of innovation I'd like to see.
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
do they have a time frame for the alpha phase? I am thinking of buying the game and would like to play the game to learn all i can.
You might wanna wait for beta if you only intend to play the game for learning purpose, most testing phases (pre-alpha and beta) will be actual testing phases, with devs wanting you to test specific things.
Speculations about cash shops at this point are worthless. There is no cash shop, and the items they did offer with packages were of minimal importance. People said they'd rather pledge their money and not get even slight in game advantages, and they were removed.
If they successfully launch the game advertised, cash shops will be unnecessary. The difference between the type of game Pantheon is to be and the status quo is a design that offers longevity. Long-term player progression where levels and items are hard-earned keep people playing rather than jumping to the next big thing.
If for whatever reason they have to rely on cash shops, its already too late.
do they have a time frame for the alpha phase? I am thinking of buying the game and would like to play the game to learn all i can.
You might wanna wait for beta if you only intend to play the game for learning purpose, most testing phases (pre-alpha and beta) will be actual testing phases, with devs wanting you to test specific things.
I have done some alpha testing also so I have an idea of doing it. I would be playing alpha to provide feedback but also to learn about the game in general.
Well, they said their was going to be no cash shop, so I am looking forward to that. If they did a cash shop, I am ok with cosmetic and no drop, that way people cannot sell it to make it p2w.
I consider most pay to convenience as p2w also...
I am tired of f2p/cash shops/daily quests/tons of instancing.... So I will see how much of this stuff Pantheon can get rid of for me. I hope it is all of it, we will see.
I am waiting till release, maybe a short beta (1-2 weeks) before release. I talked to too many people that played Alpha of recent games that took 1+ years to release, and I think it ruined release for them a little.
As for this money/influence debate, you do realize that all these cash shop games base the direction on what will make people spend more money...Not what is best for the majority of the players. I play Archeage, and some guy on the EU server bought over 500 pounds worth of game currency today (APEX) and sold it to my cross server alt accounts (Which I use to get patron/credits to transfer gold back to my NA guys). I am f2p in AA, but it isn't uncommon for people to drop 500-1000+ in AA, due to the way the game is set up (It is a huge slot machine for peoples gold/cash to make/upgrade gear). So people put money in before or after, at least before, you get a idea of what the game will be about, before you spend money to buy it (if you are worried about this), if it is after, you may of already spent your money.
Good thing Pantheon removed its cash shop a while ago and hopefully it never returns (cosmetic would be fine)
I'm pretty sure pantheon never had a cash shop in the first place.
They did. They sold things like wt reducing backpacks and something similar to Jboots and other stuff I can’t remember but they chose to remove it in order to remove the ability for people to buy an advantage.
They didn't do it so people couldn't buy an advantage. If that was important they wouldn't have added them in the first place. They did it so people can't nail them for P2W. If they could get away with it again they'd do it in a heartbeat.
The problem with fans of indie projects is they think these projects operate on some better moral foundation. They don't. They were all AAA people doing that sort of money thing. They will charge and sell what they think their demographic and market will bear both financially and socially.
If the goalposts move tomorrow because "loot crates" are the new bad thing and people are suddenly okay with people buying items in a cash shop, even items of use like JBoots or mounts, then any of these projects will sell stuff that way. If you think I'm reaching go through and read some of the loot crate discussions. People told me they're okay with MMO cash shops that sell $100 houses and $50 mounts and would rather have that than loot crates.
Either you have a cash shop and sell digital crap in it, or you don't. If these guys have a sub and a cash shop then it will be a sub + cash shop game pure and simple, not a real P2P sub game. Remember how ZOS and ANet started their mild cash shops in ESO and GW2? Watch out for that again here.
Hopefully they won't have a cash shop at all, period. Not one in the game and not one on their site.
No cash shop would be ideal in my world as well but if they did put one in I would hope it was for cosmetics only and stayed that way. Of course hope and reality usually never intersect when it comes to mo eh and games
I would support a cash shop that sold real-world merchandise.
Give me t-shirts, jackets, mugs, figures, etc.
Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do. Benjamin Franklin
I would support a cash shop that sold real-world merchandise.
Give me t-shirts, jackets, mugs, figures, etc.
I think it would me cool if they sold collectibles, such as draft concept art signed by the artist, draft lore script signed by the author, something related to the early history of the game signed by Brad McQuaid, and so on.
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
I am waiting till release, maybe a short beta (1-2 weeks) before release. I talked to too many people that played Alpha of recent games that took 1+ years to release, and I think it ruined release for them a little.
As for this money/influence debate, you do realize that all these cash shop games base the direction on what will make people spend more money...Not what is best for the majority of the players. I play Archeage, and some guy on the EU server bought over 500 pounds worth of game currency today (APEX) and sold it to my cross server alt accounts (Which I use to get patron/credits to transfer gold back to my NA guys). I am f2p in AA, but it isn't uncommon for people to drop 500-1000+ in AA, due to the way the game is set up (It is a huge slot machine for peoples gold/cash to make/upgrade gear). So people put money in before or after, at least before, you get a idea of what the game will be about, before you spend money to buy it (if you are worried about this), if it is after, you may of already spent your money.
Good thing Pantheon removed its cash shop a while ago and hopefully it never returns (cosmetic would be fine)
I'm pretty sure pantheon never had a cash shop in the first place.
They did. They sold things like wt reducing backpacks and something similar to Jboots and other stuff I can’t remember but they chose to remove it in order to remove the ability for people to buy an advantage.
They didn't do it so people couldn't buy an advantage. If that was important they wouldn't have added them in the first place. They did it so people can't nail them for P2W. If they could get away with it again they'd do it in a heartbeat.
The problem with fans of indie projects is they think these projects operate on some better moral foundation. They don't. They were all AAA people doing that sort of money thing. They will charge and sell what they think their demographic and market will bear both financially and socially.
If the goalposts move tomorrow because "loot crates" are the new bad thing and people are suddenly okay with people buying items in a cash shop, even items of use like JBoots or mounts, then any of these projects will sell stuff that way. If you think I'm reaching go through and read some of the loot crate discussions. People told me they're okay with MMO cash shops that sell $100 houses and $50 mounts and would rather have that than loot crates.
Either you have a cash shop and sell digital crap in it, or you don't. If these guys have a sub and a cash shop then it will be a sub + cash shop game pure and simple, not a real P2P sub game. Remember how ZOS and ANet started their mild cash shops in ESO and GW2? Watch out for that again here.
Hopefully they won't have a cash shop at all, period. Not one in the game and not one on their site.
No cash shop would be ideal in my world as well but if they did put one in I would hope it was for cosmetics only and stayed that way. Of course hope and reality usually never intersect when it comes to mo eh and games
I would support a cash shop that sold real-world merchandise.
Give me t-shirts, jackets, mugs, figures, etc.
I agree. I've found myself buying gaming t-shirts, caps, and jackets lately.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
Comments
The pre-alpha access was a reward from the original failed kickstarter, it costed 300€, but when the kickstarter failed they decided to keep the project going and moved to the current website where they set up the pledge system and matched the original kickstarter rewards if you could prove participation on the kickstarter.
So even though the price went up the people that had already pledge during the kickstarter still got the rewards from the 1k tier, hence why it's the "top seller" even though most people got it for 300€ they still listed it as a 1k sale because it had the same rewards.
In december 2016 they also increased the price of alpha access from 150€ to 250€ (if I'm not mistaken), because they didn't want more people joining in on alpha testing. Something similar happened in december 2017, when they anounced the removal of the 1k pre-alpha access 1 months prior to it's removal because they're finally entering pre-alpha testing.
"classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
Love Minecraft. And check out my Youtube channel OhCanadaGamer
Try a MUD today at http://www.mudconnect.com/The subset of the community with money to burn contains the people the developers are trusting and listening to. It's divisive from the start. We saw similar influence on game development from the Big Guilds over EQ1's history. It's pretty likely that Pantheon will follow a similar path. Suppose someone offers VR $250,000 today, with the only condition of including some controversial feature, like fast travel or a cash shop. Would VR take that money? How about $500,000 or $1,000,000?
The motives for why an individual gives money isn't the issue. It can be altruism, supporting a cause, wanting to see what's happening, hoping to influence decisions, or a misguided belief that their character will be ahead of everyone else -- it really doesn't matter. The developer is willing to take money from customers before they have a product finished, all under the guise of 'investing'.
The segregation of the community has begun.
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
The implication that somehow it's people with big pocketbooks controlling the direction of Pantheon is unsupported by the facts.
As for this money/influence debate, you do realize that all these cash shop games base the direction on what will make people spend more money...Not what is best for the majority of the players. I play Archeage, and some guy on the EU server bought over 500 pounds worth of game currency today (APEX) and sold it to my cross server alt accounts (Which I use to get patron/credits to transfer gold back to my NA guys). I am f2p in AA, but it isn't uncommon for people to drop 500-1000+ in AA, due to the way the game is set up (It is a huge slot machine for peoples gold/cash to make/upgrade gear). So people put money in before or after, at least before, you get a idea of what the game will be about, before you spend money to buy it (if you are worried about this), if it is after, you may of already spent your money.
If they don't have a cash shop, many members on this site will be happy, myself included. But I couldn't help but wonder how much money VR is going to be willing to leave 'on the table' in order to appease the hard-core fans. Maybe they'll offer a post-launch pay-to-test bonus donation. That would be innovative, but not the kind of innovation I'd like to see.
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
If they successfully launch the game advertised, cash shops will be unnecessary. The difference between the type of game Pantheon is to be and the status quo is a design that offers longevity. Long-term player progression where levels and items are hard-earned keep people playing rather than jumping to the next big thing.
If for whatever reason they have to rely on cash shops, its already too late.
I consider most pay to convenience as p2w also...
I am tired of f2p/cash shops/daily quests/tons of instancing.... So I will see how much of this stuff Pantheon can get rid of for me. I hope it is all of it, we will see.
I would support a cash shop that sold real-world merchandise.
Give me t-shirts, jackets, mugs, figures, etc.
Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do.
Benjamin Franklin
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
Every day we inch closer and closer to earliest access.