To be clear, Vanilla WoW was never challenging. I remember leveling to something like 38 before my first death when the game came out? And that was just because I fell asleep at the keyboard when running a dungeon causing a group wipe.
This game was designed from the beginning to be very easy, let's not pretend it was ever difficult.
Apparently for those whose first MMO was WoW it was?
To be clear, Vanilla WoW was never challenging. I remember leveling to something like 38 before my first death when the game came out? And that was just because I fell asleep at the keyboard when running a dungeon causing a group wipe.
This game was designed from the beginning to be very easy, let's not pretend it was ever difficult.
Apparently for those whose first MMO was WoW it was?
It wasn't, they just have no base for comparison due to WoW being their first MMORPG. It was easy compared to the others we were playing, but the people who started with WoW are uninformed because they have had little to no exposure to those games during those times we played it.
The big issue with WoW has always been the monotonous, yet trivial leveling process. I remember quitting at level 54 during BC because I simply got burnt out on the quest grind. It wasn't difficult, but it was incredibly boring. I just couldn't take it.
I felt this less in EQ2 because dungeons were a lot more integral to that game, IMO, and there were large contested zones where parties could literally level without having to chain run quests.
I reckon I would have the same issue I did with FFXIV than I did with WoW.
In ESO, by the time I was level 20, I had already started skipping past the quest text because I was only interested in getting to the level breakpoints for the story. I quit it after finishing the main story, because it wanted me to do the other factions, and I was already burnt out on the quest grind by then.
There is something relaxing about being able to go to an area and simply... grind XP. Everquest or Lineage II style. Sometimes, I just don't want to deal with the shitty quests and trivial MOB content in these games.
I heard that now the game zones adapt to your level, so you no longer out level a place and make it obsolete... Its like gw2, all the real state in the game is relevant???
Can someone confirm me that... because if that is true... I feel like playing WoW again after so many years!!!!
The issue is it's still a quest grind. That's the biggest issue with the game, IMO. I think the scaling is the right decision, though, but most people will simply use a level boost to skip those levels on their alts anyways. They basically give you a new pre-expac max level character with every expansion purchase.
To be clear, Vanilla WoW was never challenging. I remember leveling to something like 38 before my first death when the game came out? And that was just because I fell asleep at the keyboard when running a dungeon causing a group wipe.
This game was designed from the beginning to be very easy, let's not pretend it was ever difficult.
Leveling is not supposed to be challenging in an MMO.
The challenge (in most cases) comes with min/maxing and pushing your knowledge to the limits in end game content, theorycrafting, ect.
When I used to play WoW I loved people who would complain the game is easy yet their entirety of existence has been spent playing LFR/Flex and random BGs.
This game used to have an incredible amount of depth involved in order to be a top tier player, that got chopped in half in WoD, and even more so as the expansions continue. And yes, MoP had the most challenging "top tier" end game out of any expansion for WoW, in PvE and PvP.
I'm sorry, if you aren't looking for the challenge, you will never find it. It's really that simple.
When all is said and done, more is always said than done.
To be clear, Vanilla WoW was never challenging. I remember leveling to something like 38 before my first death when the game came out? And that was just because I fell asleep at the keyboard when running a dungeon causing a group wipe.
This game was designed from the beginning to be very easy, let's not pretend it was ever difficult.
Apparently for those whose first MMO was WoW it was?
It wasn't, they just have no base for comparison due to WoW being their first MMORPG. It was easy compared to the others we were playing, but the people who started with WoW are uninformed because they have had little to no exposure to those games during those times we played it.
The big issue with WoW has always been the monotonous, yet trivial leveling process. I remember quitting at level 54 during BC because I simply got burnt out on the quest grind. It wasn't difficult, but it was incredibly boring. I just couldn't take it.
I felt this less in EQ2 because dungeons were a lot more integral to that game, IMO, and there were large contested zones where parties could literally level without having to chain run quests.
I reckon I would have the same issue I did with FFXIV than I did with WoW.
In ESO, by the time I was level 20, I had already started skipping past the quest text because I was only interested in getting to the level breakpoints for the story. I quit it after finishing the main story, because it wanted me to do the other factions, and I was already burnt out on the quest grind by then.
There is something relaxing about being able to go to an area and simply... grind XP. Everquest or Lineage II style. Sometimes, I just don't want to deal with the shitty quests and trivial MOB content in these games.
I am the exact opposite a game where you grind mobs in one area is so dull.
I think vanilla- wow has a good balance of difficulty. I was level 20+ when I was ganked. the constant danger while levelling is pretting interesting to me.
the region group quest are also quite good, really need to group up to do some unsoloable quest( except for hunters). its also relatively easy to find players with same quest anytime, this is what mmo means to me.
I can't understand why some players want harder to kill levelling mobs? is it so much fun pulling/taking a minute+/using all skill rotation/draining all mana/ to kill a normal mob?
To be clear, Vanilla WoW was never challenging. I remember leveling to something like 38 before my first death when the game came out? And that was just because I fell asleep at the keyboard when running a dungeon causing a group wipe.
This game was designed from the beginning to be very easy, let's not pretend it was ever difficult.
Apparently for those whose first MMO was WoW it was?
What it was, was the third FUN but still challenging MMO. If blizzard 100% copied the design of old MMOs before it, even with blizzard's name attached, it wouldn't have done nearly as good. People didn't play WoW and go "wow its blizzard I love it but the game sucks so much, but blizzard!". No we played it cause it was the first actual decent, high quality MMO to ever come out.
Almost every MMO before WoW was pretty boring and mundane. WoW was first MMO I played for years without stopping.
HOWEVER. Before that was City of Heroes. CoH was amazing and the only MMO I stuck with for so long. Its sad they closed it, cause I'd actually still be playing it. Still no good superhero MMOs that are on the scale of CoH. It wasn't as high quality as WoW was, but it was still a lot of fun.
Also before that was EVE (pretty sure that was before WoW). While it wasn't really as fun, it was epic and up till ELITE Dangerous the only good space MMO. Probably the most memories of MMOs come from EVE. But I moved onto ELITE Dangerous.
The only MMOs to keep me playing for years since WoW, is Elite/ESO/GW2/BDO. Most of the old archaic MMOs that are designed like EQ are boring as hell. Yet devs keep making them and keep failing lol. Its only old people that like that kinda MMO that are stuck in the past. They can't move on to new things. They'd be the people who refuse to use intelligent robots and refuse to use flying or self driving cars.
Luckily one day they'll pass on and devs can stop making archaic MMOs and actually EVOLVE the genre and be actually innovative.
Why play something old? Why copy old designs? Do something innovative. At least some MMOs in development are doing that and making MMOs nothing like what is available today (Star Citizen, AoC as two examples I can think of)
But what blizzard did was take some EQ ideas (which really took ideas from DnD), but focused on making a fun yet still challenging MMO that wasn't as mundane and archaic as MMOs before it.
Also WoW was THE BEST polished MMO to come out at the time. Every MMO before it was buggy as hell at launch lol. LOTRO was pretty polished at launch too though, but that came out after WoW.
Once Star Citizen is released or AoC or some other innovative MMOs, I'll probably move on though. WoW is getting pretty old, and its time for new MMOs (that aren't copies of old archaic MMOs) to have their chance. If Star Citizen succeeds in releasing, that one will be amazing. But we'll see on that one lol
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WoW is back to being top #1 MMO in the world in terms of how amazing the gameplay is compared to other MMOs. Its modern, but still a challenge and takes effort like it did in vanilla/BC/WOTLK
In one single patch, they made the game back to a very classic WoW feel when leveling. It takes effort to level. The mobs are hard to fight, dungeons are finally a challenge again (now people need to work together instead of going LOLing through the dungeon) and raids are very hard as they should be.
They heard the cries of millions wanting a challenge again in WoW, where it was like Classic (and BC/WOTLK) style gameplay. Now no longer do you run around 1 hitting things with your brain turned off, now you gotta actually play the game...even with heirlooms (which have been nerfed finally)
Blizzard succeeded in not just bringing me back...but now no longer wanting to play any other MMO like I was doing since Cataclysm.
Never had so much fun in WoW since vanilla/BC/WOTLK
Opinions vary. I've seen WoW players complaining about the change also, some saying it hinders their sense of progression, similar to complaints I've seen for ESO.
In any case, the view of WoW being superior is by no means universal, and this change will do nothing to cause it to be incontestably viewed as such.
WoW is back to being top #1 MMO in the world in terms of how amazing the gameplay is compared to other MMOs. Its modern, but still a challenge and takes effort like it did in vanilla/BC/WOTLK
In one single patch, they made the game back to a very classic WoW feel when leveling. It takes effort to level. The mobs are hard to fight, dungeons are finally a challenge again (now people need to work together instead of going LOLing through the dungeon) and raids are very hard as they should be.
They heard the cries of millions wanting a challenge again in WoW, where it was like Classic (and BC/WOTLK) style gameplay. Now no longer do you run around 1 hitting things with your brain turned off, now you gotta actually play the game...even with heirlooms (which have been nerfed finally)
Blizzard succeeded in not just bringing me back...but now no longer wanting to play any other MMO like I was doing since Cataclysm.
Never had so much fun in WoW since vanilla/BC/WOTLK
Opinions vary. I've seen WoW players complaining about the change also, some saying it hinders their sense of progression, similar to complaints I've seen for ESO.
In any case, the view of WoW being superior is by no means universal, and this change will do nothing to cause it to be incontestably viewed as such.
Yeah. I've seen a lot of threads on the official forums and even on reddit about people quitting because its too hard for them now. Its what happened in ESO but more apparent in WoW cause you could 1 hit everything. People went from sleeping their way through the game and now actually have to pay attention and take effort and time to level.
Blizzard will lose some subs though yeah, but people who want to sleep through content drove out all the other subs who wanted a challenge. Its why so many people want classic back, because it was a challenge and took time to level. So I think blizzard will get a lot more subs out of the patch than they lose. They'll only lose people who like to sleep as they play lol
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Difficult is not the word I would use for WOW, even back in the day of Vanilla. Hell, the simplicity of the game is one of the reasons why I didn't make it out of Beta. I found it far too easy, and didn't bother picking it up when it was released. I did eventually get it, mind you, but still; not difficult.
Sure, the initial jump to some raids, Heroics, and Mythics did have a "learning curve", but I stop short of calling that difficult.
As far as WOW being #1 again, that would be a matter of perspective. The level scaling does make it better, but by far, not #1 again. WOW lost that status (for me) once they started tweaking and dumbing down character advancement.
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I heard that now the game zones adapt to your level, so you no longer out level a place and make it obsolete... Its like gw2, all the real state in the game is relevant???
Can someone confirm me that... because if that is true... I feel like playing WoW again after so many years!!!!
It is similar in some ways to what GW2 and ESO do, but not exactly so.
I just started playing WoW for the first time not long ago, so am coming from the perspective of a new player who has just reached the lower 50s.
The content I currently in was child's play before this revision, as I had out-leveled it. Now I have to play much more carefully, in terms of what I take on and what abilities I need to use in battle, to be successful. Even with that, I find I can still be easily overwhelmed if I'm not careful and draw too much attention, where before I would have simply slaughtered them all with ease regardless.
If that sounds more to your taste than the previous easy mode you may want to check it out for yourself to see how you feel about the change from a first hand view.
as I always say. WoW is old and its age is really starting to show.
who cares about level scaling when your "heroic" deeds don't matter? How cool would WoW be if everything you did really matters? After a certain amount of people kill x, x number of times, the game dynamically says "okay ALL the x are dead, which causes a chain reaction now we gotta go stop this new thing from happening because all of you destroyed a way of life". A new player "NOOB1" Logging in would not zone into killing the original x.. they would be now focused on fighting the new threat. New Player "NOOB1" missed the event that led to this moment but can participate in this new moment.
Constant TRUE Dynamic Events. Not the type that happens on a timer like a thing they did with Demon Invasions.
Those types of Dynamic things rarely happen if ever in MMOs and it's only because people follow the old design model still. NPC has icon overhead, click it, get the quest, do it. reward.
I know GW2 tried something dynamic that is closer to what I'm saying, but its still the same for all. I'm talking about something that makes a different experience each time you log in. Something where you never know whats going to happen and must always prepare.
Imagine Dynamic PVP in WoW. How awesome would it be to be able to raid a major city like Org or Stormwind and actually see the damage done? Walls Crumble, dead NPC bodies in the street. Shops Close down. Seeing players have to actually rebuild the cities with sidequests and other events that last for a week at a time. Then Imagine being able to get rewards for going out in the world actually seeking combat with other factions. Or being rewarded for protecting open world zones from enemy factions. Now also Imagine if those fights affected the AH in game. As in who got to control the prices, set how long you can sell, how many etc.. it would add a whole new Experience to the PVP world.
If all that happened to actually affect story elements. Awesome.
But here we are. Nothing really matters.
"kill 20 x and bring me 1 x.. all 2-3 Million of you please thanks." - Since 1999
Edit: everything I'm saying sounds like a lot of work but it's not. It just requires some effort but big Developers like Blizzard aren't hungry anymore. They got lazy. Why work hard when you can cash out on minimal work output? They don't have the same passion or drive they did when this MMO thing was in its heyday and it's obvious.
"Beliefs don't change facts. Facts, if you're reasonable, should change your beliefs."
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as I always say. WoW is old and its age is really starting to show.
who cares about level scaling when your "heroic" deeds don't matter? How cool would WoW be if everything you did really matters? After a certain amount of people kill x, x number of times, the game dynamically says "okay ALL the x are dead, which causes a chain reaction now we gotta go stop this new thing from happening because all of you destroyed a way of life". A new player "NOOB1" Logging in would not zone into killing the original x.. they would be now focused on fighting the new threat. New Player "NOOB1" missed the event that led to this moment but can participate in this new moment.
Constant TRUE Dynamic Events. Not the type that happens on a timer like a thing they did with Demon Invasions.
Those types of Dynamic things rarely happen if ever in MMOs and it's only because people follow the old design model still. NPC has icon overhead, click it, get the quest, do it. reward.
I know GW2 tried something dynamic that is closer to what I'm saying, but its still the same for all. I'm talking about something that makes a different experience each time you log in. Something where you never know whats going to happen and must always prepare.
Imagine Dynamic PVP in WoW. How awesome would it be to be able to raid a major city like Org or Stormwind and actually see the damage done? Walls Crumble, dead NPC bodies in the street. Shops Close down. Seeing players have to actually rebuild the cities with sidequests and other events that last for a week at a time. Then Imagine being able to get rewards for going out in the world actually seeking combat with other factions. Or being rewarded for protecting open world zones from enemy factions. Now also Imagine if those fights affected the AH in game. As in who got to control the prices, set how long you can sell, how many etc.. it would add a whole new Experience to the PVP world.
If all that happened to actually affect story elements. Awesome.
But here we are. Nothing really matters.
"kill 20 x and bring me 1 x.. all 2-3 Million of you please thanks." - Since 1999
Edit: everything I'm saying sounds like a lot of work but it's not. It just requires some effort but big Developers like Blizzard aren't hungry anymore. They got lazy. Why work hard when you can cash out on minimal work output? They don't have the same passion or drive they did when this MMO thing was in its heyday and it's obvious.
GW2 was supposed to be like that. They even hyped it to where you actually see PERMANENT change.
But they made it worse than WoW dynamic mechanics. At least in WoW, you complete a zone (in the newer zones) and see permanent change.
In GW2 it just resets on you, and it isn't dynamic cause players put everything on exact timers which makes it not dynamic. So GW2 had timed events, not dynamic events.
GW2 I was super excited to see the evolution of real dynamic gameplay, but it was worse than what blizzard did.
Look up AoC, its supposed to have an everchanging world with meaningful and dynamic PvP. Its still being developed, but is worth keeping an eye on at very least.
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as I always say. WoW is old and its age is really starting to show.
who cares about level scaling when your "heroic" deeds don't matter? How cool would WoW be if everything you did really matters? After a certain amount of people kill x, x number of times, the game dynamically says "okay ALL the x are dead, which causes a chain reaction now we gotta go stop this new thing from happening because all of you destroyed a way of life". A new player "NOOB1" Logging in would not zone into killing the original x.. they would be now focused on fighting the new threat. New Player "NOOB1" missed the event that led to this moment but can participate in this new moment.
Constant TRUE Dynamic Events. Not the type that happens on a timer like a thing they did with Demon Invasions.
Those types of Dynamic things rarely happen if ever in MMOs and it's only because people follow the old design model still. NPC has icon overhead, click it, get the quest, do it. reward.
I know GW2 tried something dynamic that is closer to what I'm saying, but its still the same for all. I'm talking about something that makes a different experience each time you log in. Something where you never know whats going to happen and must always prepare.
Imagine Dynamic PVP in WoW. How awesome would it be to be able to raid a major city like Org or Stormwind and actually see the damage done? Walls Crumble, dead NPC bodies in the street. Shops Close down. Seeing players have to actually rebuild the cities with sidequests and other events that last for a week at a time. Then Imagine being able to get rewards for going out in the world actually seeking combat with other factions. Or being rewarded for protecting open world zones from enemy factions. Now also Imagine if those fights affected the AH in game. As in who got to control the prices, set how long you can sell, how many etc.. it would add a whole new Experience to the PVP world.
If all that happened to actually affect story elements. Awesome.
But here we are. Nothing really matters.
"kill 20 x and bring me 1 x.. all 2-3 Million of you please thanks." - Since 1999
Edit: everything I'm saying sounds like a lot of work but it's not. It just requires some effort but big Developers like Blizzard aren't hungry anymore. They got lazy. Why work hard when you can cash out on minimal work output? They don't have the same passion or drive they did when this MMO thing was in its heyday and it's obvious.
This has already been done. It's called sandbox. Nothing is more dynamic, or susceptible to long lasting change due to player actions. Those actions don't affect the story, they are the story.
No matter what contrived systems are put in place to mimic that kind of dynamism in a theme park game, it will never come close to what players can do on their own when they are simply given the bare bone tools and then left alone to do as they please.
Since players will always do dynamism better than developers I don't see the merit of all that work to ultimately produce a comparatively half-baked experience.
I am actually awfully disappointed that the dungeon experience is still the Speedy Gonzales tank that does not slow down at all and pulls non stop. So fed up as a priest so I decided to roll a DPS class and just quest to my heart's content.
I am actually awfully disappointed that the dungeon experience is still the Speedy Gonzales tank that does not slow down at all and pulls non stop. So fed up as a priest so I decided to roll a DPS class and just quest to my heart's content.
That was literally the marking point of when I decided live Wow was dead to me (and that was a HELL of a long time ago).
When I returned at one point well after my TBC days and did a dungeon with a couple of my core MMORPG buddies and saw the pug priest pulling mobs non-stop because the group wasn't going fast enough for him ... I said, fuck it, this isn't a MMORPG anymore (the RPG tag was shattered).
It was moment of sadness. A once great game had failed and now was thrown into the dregs of video game society.
I am actually awfully disappointed that the dungeon experience is still the Speedy Gonzales tank that does not slow down at all and pulls non stop. So fed up as a priest so I decided to roll a DPS class and just quest to my heart's content.
That was literally the marking point of when I decided live Wow was dead to me (and that was a HELL of a long time ago).
When I returned at one point well after my TBC days and did a dungeon with a couple of my core MMORPG buddies and saw the pug priest pulling mobs non-stop because the group wasn't going fast enough for him ... I said, fuck it, this isn't a MMORPG anymore (the RPG tag was shattered).
It was moment of sadness. A once great game had failed and now was thrown into the dregs of video game society.
I am actually awfully disappointed that the dungeon experience is still the Speedy Gonzales tank that does not slow down at all and pulls non stop. So fed up as a priest so I decided to roll a DPS class and just quest to my heart's content.
That was literally the marking point of when I decided live Wow was dead to me (and that was a HELL of a long time ago).
When I returned at one point well after my TBC days and did a dungeon with a couple of my core MMORPG buddies and saw the pug priest pulling mobs non-stop because the group wasn't going fast enough for him ... I said, fuck it, this isn't a MMORPG anymore (the RPG tag was shattered).
It was moment of sadness. A once great game had failed and now was thrown into the dregs of video game society.
Its slowly comming back... leveling is actually fun again... since you can play trough the story again ... and fights are not one-shots anymore
And if you do a dungeon in a non heirloom group, the total walk-over part has been gone...
The latest patch is defiantely a step in the right direction, making WoW like overnight a fun experience again for newly joining casual players that want an MMO as an MMO was meant to be, starting with a fun leveling experience.
IF Blizzard could add one more step, allowing people to choose their difficulty level, then they would be where the game ought to be... With the current scaling system in place, that would be not to hard to do..
But again, for me with 7.3.5 Blizzard seems to have finally realized again that an MMO is more then just the endgame experience. Even a game like WoW needs to pull in new players to stay viable and not just pull back the players that once left.
Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)
I haven't spent more than a few hours since the patch went live. So my experience is in the level 1-60 areas. One thing I can say for sure is that I am definitely enjoying leveling at the lower level bracket.
I have been leveling a lvl 54 Paladin alongside my wife's Monk. Prior to the patch, it was really boring. Almost every mob we attacked I'd either one shot them before she could use one ability. Or as usual, I give her the first strike and either finish it off or auto-attack till she kills it. It honestly felt like we were looting the bodies longer than it took to kill the mob. It was basically like this till you got to the Cataclysm content ( Level 80-85).
After the patch, mobs actually require a rotation of your abilities to subdue. So we both get at least 3-4 abilities in before the mob perished. That has greatly improved our enjoyment of leveling alts together.
My only criticism is the severe nerfing of the heirloom gear. I completely understand nerfing it. It was After all way overpowered. But i personally think they should of made it equal to blue gear of its level. Im not too worried though. I think they'll adjust these changes with future patches so it's nothing to stress about.
If they don't adjust heirloom gear. I suppose the silver lining will be that low level blue and purple gear will have value again. I know some sell for a lot for the transmorg, but most atm are not worth much. This will change that. Maybe this was part of the logic behind this nerf?
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It wasn't, they just have no base for comparison due to WoW being their first MMORPG. It was easy compared to the others we were playing, but the people who started with WoW are uninformed because they have had little to no exposure to those games during those times we played it.
The big issue with WoW has always been the monotonous, yet trivial leveling process. I remember quitting at level 54 during BC because I simply got burnt out on the quest grind. It wasn't difficult, but it was incredibly boring. I just couldn't take it.
I felt this less in EQ2 because dungeons were a lot more integral to that game, IMO, and there were large contested zones where parties could literally level without having to chain run quests.
I reckon I would have the same issue I did with FFXIV than I did with WoW.
In ESO, by the time I was level 20, I had already started skipping past the quest text because I was only interested in getting to the level breakpoints for the story. I quit it after finishing the main story, because it wanted me to do the other factions, and I was already burnt out on the quest grind by then.
There is something relaxing about being able to go to an area and simply... grind XP. Everquest or Lineage II style. Sometimes, I just don't want to deal with the shitty quests and trivial MOB content in these games.
The issue is it's still a quest grind. That's the biggest issue with the game, IMO. I think the scaling is the right decision, though, but most people will simply use a level boost to skip those levels on their alts anyways. They basically give you a new pre-expac max level character with every expansion purchase.
The challenge (in most cases) comes with min/maxing and pushing your knowledge to the limits in end game content, theorycrafting, ect.
When I used to play WoW I loved people who would complain the game is easy yet their entirety of existence has been spent playing LFR/Flex and random BGs.
This game used to have an incredible amount of depth involved in order to be a top tier player, that got chopped in half in WoD, and even more so as the expansions continue. And yes, MoP had the most challenging "top tier" end game out of any expansion for WoW, in PvE and PvP.
I'm sorry, if you aren't looking for the challenge, you will never find it. It's really that simple.
I am the exact opposite a game where you grind mobs in one area is so dull.
I self identify as a monkey.
the region group quest are also quite good, really need to group up to do some unsoloable quest( except for hunters). its also relatively easy to find players with same quest anytime, this is what mmo means to me.
I can't understand why some players want harder to kill levelling mobs? is it so much fun pulling/taking a minute+/using all skill rotation/draining all mana/ to kill a normal mob?
Almost every MMO before WoW was pretty boring and mundane. WoW was first MMO I played for years without stopping.
HOWEVER. Before that was City of Heroes. CoH was amazing and the only MMO I stuck with for so long. Its sad they closed it, cause I'd actually still be playing it. Still no good superhero MMOs that are on the scale of CoH. It wasn't as high quality as WoW was, but it was still a lot of fun.
Also before that was EVE (pretty sure that was before WoW). While it wasn't really as fun, it was epic and up till ELITE Dangerous the only good space MMO. Probably the most memories of MMOs come from EVE. But I moved onto ELITE Dangerous.
The only MMOs to keep me playing for years since WoW, is Elite/ESO/GW2/BDO. Most of the old archaic MMOs that are designed like EQ are boring as hell. Yet devs keep making them and keep failing lol. Its only old people that like that kinda MMO that are stuck in the past. They can't move on to new things. They'd be the people who refuse to use intelligent robots and refuse to use flying or self driving cars.
Luckily one day they'll pass on and devs can stop making archaic MMOs and actually EVOLVE the genre and be actually innovative.
Why play something old? Why copy old designs? Do something innovative. At least some MMOs in development are doing that and making MMOs nothing like what is available today (Star Citizen, AoC as two examples I can think of)
But what blizzard did was take some EQ ideas (which really took ideas from DnD), but focused on making a fun yet still challenging MMO that wasn't as mundane and archaic as MMOs before it.
Also WoW was THE BEST polished MMO to come out at the time. Every MMO before it was buggy as hell at launch lol. LOTRO was pretty polished at launch too though, but that came out after WoW.
Once Star Citizen is released or AoC or some other innovative MMOs, I'll probably move on though. WoW is getting pretty old, and its time for new MMOs (that aren't copies of old archaic MMOs) to have their chance. If Star Citizen succeeds in releasing, that one will be amazing. But we'll see on that one lol
My Skyrim, Fallout 4, Starbound and WoW + other game mods at MODDB:
https://www.moddb.com/mods/skyrim-anime-overhaul
In any case, the view of WoW being superior is by no means universal, and this change will do nothing to cause it to be incontestably viewed as such.
Blizzard will lose some subs though yeah, but people who want to sleep through content drove out all the other subs who wanted a challenge. Its why so many people want classic back, because it was a challenge and took time to level. So I think blizzard will get a lot more subs out of the patch than they lose. They'll only lose people who like to sleep as they play lol
My Skyrim, Fallout 4, Starbound and WoW + other game mods at MODDB:
https://www.moddb.com/mods/skyrim-anime-overhaul
Sure, the initial jump to some raids, Heroics, and Mythics did have a "learning curve", but I stop short of calling that difficult.
As far as WOW being #1 again, that would be a matter of perspective. The level scaling does make it better, but by far, not #1 again. WOW lost that status (for me) once they started tweaking and dumbing down character advancement.
Raquelis in various games
Played: Everything
Playing: Nioh 2, Civ6
Wants: The World
Anticipating: Everquest Next Crowfall, Pantheon, Elden Ring
I just started playing WoW for the first time not long ago, so am coming from the perspective of a new player who has just reached the lower 50s.
The content I currently in was child's play before this revision, as I had out-leveled it. Now I have to play much more carefully, in terms of what I take on and what abilities I need to use in battle, to be successful. Even with that, I find I can still be easily overwhelmed if I'm not careful and draw too much attention, where before I would have simply slaughtered them all with ease regardless.
If that sounds more to your taste than the previous easy mode you may want to check it out for yourself to see how you feel about the change from a first hand view.
who cares about level scaling when your "heroic" deeds don't matter? How cool would WoW be if everything you did really matters? After a certain amount of people kill x, x number of times, the game dynamically says "okay ALL the x are dead, which causes a chain reaction now we gotta go stop this new thing from happening because all of you destroyed a way of life". A new player "NOOB1" Logging in would not zone into killing the original x.. they would be now focused on fighting the new threat. New Player "NOOB1" missed the event that led to this moment but can participate in this new moment.
Constant TRUE Dynamic Events. Not the type that happens on a timer like a thing they did with Demon Invasions.
Those types of Dynamic things rarely happen if ever in MMOs and it's only because people follow the old design model still. NPC has icon overhead, click it, get the quest, do it. reward.
I know GW2 tried something dynamic that is closer to what I'm saying, but its still the same for all. I'm talking about something that makes a different experience each time you log in. Something where you never know whats going to happen and must always prepare.
Imagine Dynamic PVP in WoW. How awesome would it be to be able to raid a major city like Org or Stormwind and actually see the damage done? Walls Crumble, dead NPC bodies in the street. Shops Close down. Seeing players have to actually rebuild the cities with sidequests and other events that last for a week at a time. Then Imagine being able to get rewards for going out in the world actually seeking combat with other factions. Or being rewarded for protecting open world zones from enemy factions. Now also Imagine if those fights affected the AH in game. As in who got to control the prices, set how long you can sell, how many etc.. it would add a whole new Experience to the PVP world.
If all that happened to actually affect story elements. Awesome.
But here we are. Nothing really matters.
"kill 20 x and bring me 1 x.. all 2-3 Million of you please thanks." - Since 1999
Edit: everything I'm saying sounds like a lot of work but it's not. It just requires some effort but big Developers like Blizzard aren't hungry anymore. They got lazy. Why work hard when you can cash out on minimal work output? They don't have the same passion or drive they did when this MMO thing was in its heyday and it's obvious.
"The Society that separates its scholars from its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting by fools."
Currently: Games Audio Engineer, you didn't hear what I heard, you heard what I wanted you to hear.
But they made it worse than WoW dynamic mechanics. At least in WoW, you complete a zone (in the newer zones) and see permanent change.
In GW2 it just resets on you, and it isn't dynamic cause players put everything on exact timers which makes it not dynamic. So GW2 had timed events, not dynamic events.
GW2 I was super excited to see the evolution of real dynamic gameplay, but it was worse than what blizzard did.
Look up AoC, its supposed to have an everchanging world with meaningful and dynamic PvP. Its still being developed, but is worth keeping an eye on at very least.
My Skyrim, Fallout 4, Starbound and WoW + other game mods at MODDB:
https://www.moddb.com/mods/skyrim-anime-overhaul
No matter what contrived systems are put in place to mimic that kind of dynamism in a theme park game, it will never come close to what players can do on their own when they are simply given the bare bone tools and then left alone to do as they please.
Since players will always do dynamism better than developers I don't see the merit of all that work to ultimately produce a comparatively half-baked experience.
When I returned at one point well after my TBC days and did a dungeon with a couple of my core MMORPG buddies and saw the pug priest pulling mobs non-stop because the group wasn't going fast enough for him ... I said, fuck it, this isn't a MMORPG anymore (the RPG tag was shattered).
It was moment of sadness. A once great game had failed and now was thrown into the dregs of video game society.
You stay sassy!
Its slowly comming back... leveling is actually fun again... since you can play trough the story again ... and fights are not one-shots anymore
And if you do a dungeon in a non heirloom group, the total walk-over part has been gone...
The latest patch is defiantely a step in the right direction, making WoW like overnight a fun experience again for newly joining casual players that want an MMO as an MMO was meant to be, starting with a fun leveling experience.
IF Blizzard could add one more step, allowing people to choose their difficulty level, then they would be where the game ought to be... With the current scaling system in place, that would be not to hard to do..
But again, for me with 7.3.5 Blizzard seems to have finally realized again that an MMO is more then just the endgame experience. Even a game like WoW needs to pull in new players to stay viable and not just pull back the players that once left.
Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)
I have been leveling a lvl 54 Paladin alongside my wife's Monk. Prior to the patch, it was really boring. Almost every mob we attacked I'd either one shot them before she could use one ability. Or as usual, I give her the first strike and either finish it off or auto-attack till she kills it. It honestly felt like we were looting the bodies longer than it took to kill the mob. It was basically like this till you got to the Cataclysm content ( Level 80-85).
After the patch, mobs actually require a rotation of your abilities to subdue. So we both get at least 3-4 abilities in before the mob perished. That has greatly improved our enjoyment of leveling alts together.
My only criticism is the severe nerfing of the heirloom gear. I completely understand nerfing it. It was After all way overpowered. But i personally think they should of made it equal to blue gear of its level. Im not too worried though. I think they'll adjust these changes with future patches so it's nothing to stress about.
If they don't adjust heirloom gear. I suppose the silver lining will be that low level blue and purple gear will have value again. I know some sell for a lot for the transmorg, but most atm are not worth much. This will change that. Maybe this was part of the logic behind this nerf?