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Curiosity ..

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  • RhimeRhime Member UncommonPosts: 269
    IceAge said:
    MaxBacon said:
    For the official stretch goals, there's one maintained with each known status here: 

    https://starcitizen.tools/Stretch_Goals

    24 Complete
    35 In Progress
    39 Unknown
    23 In Concept
    3 On Hold / After Launch

    So! From a total of 121 ( +3 at launch ) , 24 are completed in .. 5 or so years? That's around ...20% ? 

    Well, I don't know how old are you , but I hope your hands will not shake ( to fast ) , when SC will be released ( I mean, when they will complete the goals which they promised if X amount of $ will be donated ) .

    That is the info new players needs to receive. Where exactly are they now with development. So, if this was the first time I was hearing about SC and would of think to support the game, well .. based on the above info, I would of say "..ok, i'll call you" .
    The game mechanics are very rough at the moment the game runs very unstable and only if you install on SSD, 16+GB RAM, and high end video card over 20fps. There are clipping and fall through world issues everywhere, the game logic is not running reliable (like spawning or accessing ships ... or landing ships ). The Economy is not implemented and there is no content. The flight mechanic is simply unfun (no real tactics possible) and unbalanced. The Enemy ship AI is very dull, there are no Enemy AI NPC. MultiplayerShips are not implemented yet (as in different stations like scanning, repairing etc).
    All this and they just sold land claim beacons and tanks.
    There is enough engineering dept on the vehicles and ships alone for the next 15 years.

    Meh...I'm not running the game on an SSD nor do I have a high end vid card (GTX 1050) and have been able to experience the ALPHA 3.0 as is. It certainly is rough in certain parts, but when you get in your ship, flip on the switches to get flight ready, push the throttles on your HOTAS, quantum travel to that planet over there, fly through the atmosphere down to the planet surface (no load screen at all), land ANYWHERE on the planet, get out of your ship for the first time and explore then get back in and launch back out to space the same way you came in and land back on a space station (manually), it sure is AWESOME!
    OrinoriMrMelGibson
  • gervaise1gervaise1 Member EpicPosts: 5,268
    edited January 15
    Cotic said:
    gervaise1 said:
    <snip>

    MaxBacon said:
    <snip>
    1. Just because they have raised $176M (or whatever) doesn't mean they have spent $176M. CiG believe that they have enough money to finish the game and there are those who say it is going to take "many" years - and if that is the case then maybe they haven't spent anything like $176M.

    <snip>
    On point 1. Can it not be roughly estimated based on Foundry 42's account submissions and the number of staff per year released by CIG.

    I have also seen mention of $120,000 per employee per year as an decent figure agreed on by numerous studio heads.

    This image shows CIG's headcount over the years 

    so 10 * $120,000 in 2012 + 48 * $120,000 in 2013 and so on for a total of $155 million which then excludes additional expenses such as contractors, property refit/equipping, Hollywood cast, renting of Imaginarium for mocap work, so on and so forth.
    They must have burnt through quite a bit of that money at this stage although if it was a problem we would see it through layoffs etcetera.
    @Cotic ;
    One can certainly try - although the article I read that used $120k, decided they were bankrupt and then - correctly! - decided that the numbers he was using must be wrong!

    With tables like the above - no idea how accurate it is - you won't get the average headcount for a year - so a little smoothing might improve things. Also could also be tricky if any voice actor folk are included in the numbers. This was something that made it very hard to "check" SWTOR - seem to remember EA saying they had over 750 people at one point ...... a voice actor for a day not a full time employee. So you just have to accept that your number is a guess. Hence why it doesn't really matter if you use $100k or $10k a month; varations in exchange rates make more of a difference!

    For rough calcs though threads on forums tend to use $100k or $10k a month a) to keep the figures simple; both will be on the high side for the EU though because of exchange rates - maybe why the focus is there.

    For F42 though there are accounts which detail how much has been spent so there is no need to guess - simply allow for any $ to £ conversion rate. Even that - to some extent - is covered in the accounts. As are the tax credits. A quick search will bring up the numbers.

    But yes as to your point about them having spent a non-trivial sum sure - just not the total amount raised.

    Interestingly - base on the table - the total headcount in 2017 than in 2016 supports the statement they made that they have "enough" to complete the game. You would be looking to reduce and maybe even slow things down if money was very tight. Now since they said that they also had slippage last year in getting 3.0 out of the door - but they also raised new funds so as long as they exceeded the slip then the statement should still stand.

    @IceAge see last paragraph. And as for it being SQ42 only my error sorry.
    Post edited by gervaise1 on
  • IceAgeIceAge Member RarePosts: 2,073
    Orinori said:
    IceAge said:

    Really , thats your excuse? I did knew that you will come up with an excuse no matter what I said and that's why I didn't want to spend time giving you the examples. You said triple AAA games. I gave you some exemples, but there are many more , yet .. now you start with pathetic comparations.

    Until your beloved company release ( please read it wisely my friend ) one of the 2 games, you have absolutely no right to comment on development time frame, money , etc. Until now, after 5+ years, they have earned $176M , and they haven't release a single game. 

    Now off you go. Next time, do some researches because in your ignorance, you believed that no company on earth, can deliver 2 triple AAA games in a time-frame of 5 years. That's .. pathetic.

    I am done with blind, ignorant and believers for today.
    Well it is kind of hard to compare like with like as SC development of MMO plus single player to this scale has not been done before, so I tried to keep it as fair as I could.

    "in your ignorance, you believed that no company on earth, can deliver 2 triple AAA games in a time-frame of 5 years"  I never stated such a thing, the point was only for you to take into consideration when you wanted to compare development of games with your list. 

    The two I picked only delivered a measly sized 27hrs combined play for 81 million over 4.5 yrs. I won't be alone in saying I have already spent considerable more time than that in the Star Citizen universe and the game is only beginning.

    There maybe better examples but I choose that one due to the concurrent games across multiple studios. I presumed the whole point of providing your list was a comparison against Star Citizen and trying to discover the value of Star Citizen and its development. I guess I was wrong.










    And yet, you took the "weakest" exemple . FFXIII and FXIV ( Online ) ? Fallout 3 and Elder Scrolls IV ?

    So . Your point is weak. 5 years in development and SC is around 20% completed. If you believe , your game will be fulled released in less then 5 years, then you so blind.

    I can make guesses , same as you , on SC. So I say the total development time-frame for SC will be 10+ years and they will have a total budged of around $350/400 MIL . That's pathetic.
    Darkpigeon

    Reporter: What's behind Blizzard success, and how do you make your gamers happy?
    Blizzard Boss: Making gamers happy is not my concern, making money.. yes!

  • Turrican187Turrican187 Member UncommonPosts: 779
    Rhime said:
    IceAge said:
    MaxBacon said:
    For the official stretch goals, there's one maintained with each known status here: 

    https://starcitizen.tools/Stretch_Goals

    24 Complete
    35 In Progress
    39 Unknown
    23 In Concept
    3 On Hold / After Launch

    So! From a total of 121 ( +3 at launch ) , 24 are completed in .. 5 or so years? That's around ...20% ? 

    Well, I don't know how old are you , but I hope your hands will not shake ( to fast ) , when SC will be released ( I mean, when they will complete the goals which they promised if X amount of $ will be donated ) .

    That is the info new players needs to receive. Where exactly are they now with development. So, if this was the first time I was hearing about SC and would of think to support the game, well .. based on the above info, I would of say "..ok, i'll call you" .
    The game mechanics are very rough at the moment the game runs very unstable and only if you install on SSD, 16+GB RAM, and high end video card over 20fps. There are clipping and fall through world issues everywhere, the game logic is not running reliable (like spawning or accessing ships ... or landing ships ). The Economy is not implemented and there is no content. The flight mechanic is simply unfun (no real tactics possible) and unbalanced. The Enemy ship AI is very dull, there are no Enemy AI NPC. MultiplayerShips are not implemented yet (as in different stations like scanning, repairing etc).
    All this and they just sold land claim beacons and tanks.
    There is enough engineering dept on the vehicles and ships alone for the next 15 years.

    Meh...I'm not running the game on an SSD nor do I have a high end vid card (GTX 1050) and have been able to experience the ALPHA 3.0 as is. It certainly is rough in certain parts, but when you get in your ship, flip on the switches to get flight ready, push the throttles on your HOTAS, quantum travel to that planet over there, fly through the atmosphere down to the planet surface (no load screen at all), land ANYWHERE on the planet, get out of your ship for the first time and explore then get back in and launch back out to space the same way you came in and land back on a space station (manually), it sure is AWESOME!
    OK that's fine but I have to ask, did you quote the wrong post because I see no conjunction between your post and my quoted post.

    Here is a test of current FPS on a high end machine
    https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/7n0wgl/hdd_vs_ssd_vs_raid0_vs_optane/
    Erillion

    When you have cake, it is not the cake that creates the most magnificent of experiences, but it is the emotions attached to it.
    The cake is a lie.

  • ErillionErillion Member EpicPosts: 9,351
    edited January 15
    @Turrican187

    thank you for the link.

    Later in the comments someone put the data into a table     

    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

    Thanks for the information! This data seems conducive for display in a table for easier comparison.

    Load times (in seconds) (lower = better)

    Storage media Pagefile media Load Menu Load Server Finish Load
    HDD HDD 166 228 144
    HDD Pro 850 SSD 68 169 105
    Pro 850 SSD HDD 34 49 52
    EVO 850 RAID Pro 850 SSD 32 51 26
    Optane Optane 32 41 4

    Average framerates (higher = better)

    Storage media Pagefile media Olisar FPS Hex FPS Yela FPS Cellin FPS Daymar FPS Dalmar FPS Levski FPS
    HDD HDD 20 26 32 33 31 27 18
    HDD Pro 850 SSD 25 23 32 32 31 28 18
    Pro 850 SSD HDD 25 22 32 32 31 29 18
    EVO 850 RAID Pro 850 SSD 22 25 34 36 34 31 25
    Optane Optane 35 28 36 37 38 32 30

    >>>>>>>      

    As i mentioned before .... playing SC with an SSD makes a significant difference.                


    Have fun          


    Post edited by Erillion on
    EponyxDamor
  • EponyxDamorEponyxDamor Member RarePosts: 664
    Erillion said:

    As i mentioned before .... playing SC with an SSD makes a significant difference.                


    Have fun          


    I believe this is because of the texture loading process that SC utilizes. High-speed SSDs will perform much better in terms of FPS as a result; which is why CIG highly recommends an SSD in their system requirements.
    Erillion
  • MaxBaconMaxBacon Member EpicPosts: 6,464
    edited January 15
    I believe this is because of the texture loading process that SC utilizes. High-speed SSDs will perform much better in terms of FPS as a result; which is why CIG highly recommends an SSD in their system requirements.
    It's all about streaming, the SSD should be considered a requirement by now.
    And I think in the global picture they already are standard for PC Gaming.

    The whole loadings of SC now are pretty much "no loading screens", yet just a small square that loads all the assets surrounding you, it is the disk doing the job.

    But it's not that relevant to the FPS being the bottleneck in their servers/netcode, either you have a medium/ high-end hardware config, not much relevant gain.
    Post edited by MaxBacon on
  • penandpaperpenandpaper Member UncommonPosts: 173
    Employee numbers, especially when they are trying to hide things, is a very misleading number in accounting.  Now, employees with health benefits, that is a good number.  Would they ever release that?  The answer is as simple as: will SC deliver on their promises - no.  (unfortunately)
  • penandpaperpenandpaper Member UncommonPosts: 173
    Also, can someone clarify: the studio is now releasing two games.

    I will say it again: EQNext and Landmark.  ;)
    kikoodutroa8ScotchUp
  • BabuinixBabuinix Member RarePosts: 1,959
    Also, can someone clarify: the studio is now releasing two games.

    I will say it again: EQNext and Landmark.  ;)
    Squadron 42 is the campaign mode that set's the story, lore and time of the event's



    While Star Citizen will invite you to follow the adventures in the universe with other players.


    ErillionArglebargle
  • penandpaperpenandpaper Member UncommonPosts: 173
    Ah... Thanks for the clarification.  Seems like a smart way to go; set the lore and story into place.  Good thinking on their part.  
    Arglebargle
  • Tiamat64Tiamat64 Member RarePosts: 1,405
    edited January 20
    They don't even have the Stanton system anywhere near finished (it's like... 5-10% finished or something?  Can vary depending on how much you factor in the currently nonexistent population, fauna, flora, cities, and content, in addition to land mass like planets and moons).  They're gonna have to "expand their pipelines" pretty drastically if they hope to get the rest of the planned systems out before Chris Roberts dies of old age.
    Post edited by Tiamat64 on
    MaxBacon
  • TalonsinTalonsin Member EpicPosts: 3,619
    Cotic said:
    And yet, atmospheric planets were supposedly arriving before the end of 2016. One year later and we still do not have them nor have we seen anything more about them. Something is holding things up.


    But on the bright side, they sure can make some nice videos showing what they will look like in a few years when we get them!
    IceAgeScotchUpMaxBacon
    "Sean (Murray) saying MP will be in the game is not remotely close to evidence that at the point of purchase people thought there was MP in the game."  - SEANMCAD

  • TalonsinTalonsin Member EpicPosts: 3,619
    MaxBacon said:
    Way to be intentionally blind.
    Way to be intentionally blind indeed. 
    (check for the issues and dismiss all the rest)

    No wonder there's such a huge reality gap between the backers and you guys...
    I am a backer and "one of those guys".  But fantastic job trying to lump all the people who have any kind of concern into one big pile.  I think there is a name for that...
    MaxBacon
    "Sean (Murray) saying MP will be in the game is not remotely close to evidence that at the point of purchase people thought there was MP in the game."  - SEANMCAD

  • TalonsinTalonsin Member EpicPosts: 3,619
    Orinori said:
     I guess I was wrong.


    And knowing is half the battle!  GI-JOE!!!!



    MrMelGibsonMaxBacon
    "Sean (Murray) saying MP will be in the game is not remotely close to evidence that at the point of purchase people thought there was MP in the game."  - SEANMCAD

  • kikoodutroa8kikoodutroa8 Member RarePosts: 551
    Tiamat64 said:
    They don't even have the Stanton system anywhere near finished (it's like... 5-10% finished or something?  Can vary depending on how much you factor in the currently nonexistent population, fauna, flora, cities, and content, in addition to land mass like planets and moons).  They're gonna have to "expand their pipelines" pretty drastically if they hope to get the rest of the planned systems out before Chris Roberts dies of old age.
    I'm pretty sure they finished refactoring the pipelines last year, or maybe the year before. Now they're ready to pour procgen content into the ptu.
  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Member LegendaryPosts: 6,980
    Also, can someone clarify: the studio is now releasing two games.

    I will say it again: EQNext and Landmark.  ;)
    To be fair, SQ42 will be sold as a completely stand-alone game, not as a testbed of user content creation for SC.

    image
  • IceAgeIceAge Member RarePosts: 2,073
    Tiamat64 said:
    They don't even have the Stanton system anywhere near finished (it's like... 5-10% finished or something?  Can vary depending on how much you factor in the currently nonexistent population, fauna, flora, cities, and content, in addition to land mass like planets and moons).  They're gonna have to "expand their pipelines" pretty drastically if they hope to get the rest of the planned systems out before Chris Roberts dies of old age.
    I'm pretty sure they finished refactoring the pipelines last year, or maybe the year before. Now they're ready to pour procgen content into the ptu.
    ...amazing! Exactly what I said. If they work so hard and for so long, to "pour procgen content into the ptu" , maybe next Christmas ... after 2050 the game will be completed. 
    MaxBaconDarkpigeon

    Reporter: What's behind Blizzard success, and how do you make your gamers happy?
    Blizzard Boss: Making gamers happy is not my concern, making money.. yes!

  • kikoodutroa8kikoodutroa8 Member RarePosts: 551
    All that fidelity takes some time to be made, you know.
    Chris Roberts has always been a visionary, he's litterally building a game for the future of pc gaming.
    ScotchUpIceAge
  • penandpaperpenandpaper Member UncommonPosts: 173
    All that fidelity takes some time to be made, you know.
    Chris Roberts has always been a visionary, he's litterally building a game for the future of pc gaming.

    ?
    Now Robert's building a game for the future of PC's?
    What?
    No he's not.  He is trying to finish a game in which he squandered millions of dollars of people's money on non-development luxuries (I'm not talking about a coffee maker).  Please provide proof that this game is going to need to be used by "next gen" computers.  
    kikoodutroa8
  • ErillionErillion Member EpicPosts: 9,351
    **snip **
    No he's not.  He is trying to finish a game in which he squandered millions of dollars of people's money on non-development luxuries (I'm not talking about a coffee maker).  **snip**
    Do you have - dare i say it - proof for these serious allegations ?

    Or is this just more of the baseless slander from anonymous people that hide behind their nameless internet existence ?


    Have fun
    kikoodutroa8postofficetcup
  • IceAgeIceAge Member RarePosts: 2,073
    edited January 21
    All that fidelity takes some time to be made, you know.
    Chris Roberts has always been a visionary, he's litterally building a game for the future of pc gaming.

    /sarcasmoff

    ?
    Now Robert's building a game for the future of PC's?
    What?
    No he's not.  He is trying to finish a game in which he squandered millions of dollars of people's money on non-development luxuries (I'm not talking about a coffee maker).  Please provide proof that this game is going to need to be used by "next gen" computers.  
    There, I fixed the end of the post from @kikoodutroa8 :)

    EDIT: You need to press "show previous quotes" !
    Post edited by IceAge on
    kikoodutroa8postofficetcupDarkpigeon

    Reporter: What's behind Blizzard success, and how do you make your gamers happy?
    Blizzard Boss: Making gamers happy is not my concern, making money.. yes!

  • MaxBaconMaxBacon Member EpicPosts: 6,464
    edited January 21
    IceAge said:
    ...amazing! Exactly what I said. If they work so hard and for so long, to "pour procgen content into the ptu" , maybe next Christmas ... after 2050 the game will be completed. 
    Usual unawareness...

    The procgen system was created and released upon 3.0, especially related to the mission system and other bits, this has been in development since the year before 3.0 released.

    Here's how development works for you:
    > Backend system for the mission system starts development
    > Such systems designed meant to drive/spawn content in the PU mostly in the form of procgen missions
    > Back-end is created and integrated with the rest of the game, UI, AI, etc.. etc..
    > Some initial content types are created and integrated with it.
    > First iteration of it is released (Alpha 3.0)
    > Continuous expansion of the types and complexity of content that will be added to such system follow.

    Maybe you might be able to understand what took most time to start getting procgen content in the PU (hint: It was not the content). If you don't, whelp, then no reasonable discussion shall ever happen with you if the topic is SC.
    Post edited by MaxBacon on
    Darkpigeon
  • hfztthfztt Member RarePosts: 1,309
    One post. Three pages of "feed the troll".

    Way to go n00bs...
    Kyleran
  • IceAgeIceAge Member RarePosts: 2,073
    IceAge said:
    All that fidelity takes some time to be made, you know.
    Chris Roberts has always been a visionary, he's litterally building a game for the future of pc gaming.

    /sarcasmoff

    ?
    Now Robert's building a game for the future of PC's?
    What?
    No he's not.  He is trying to finish a game in which he squandered millions of dollars of people's money on non-development luxuries (I'm not talking about a coffee maker).  Please provide proof that this game is going to need to be used by "next gen" computers.  
    There, I fixed the end of the post from @kikoodutroa8 :)

    EDIT: You need to press "show previous quotes" !
    Wait, Kikoo gave me a "wtf rating" on my comment, which means, he was not sarcastic? That's..sad lol 

    MaxBacon said:
    IceAge said:
    ...amazing! Exactly what I said. If they work so hard and for so long, to "pour procgen content into the ptu" , maybe next Christmas ... after 2050 the game will be completed. 
    Usual unawareness...

    The procgen system was created and released upon 3.0, especially related to the mission system and other bits, this has been in development since the year before 3.0 released.

    Here's how development works for you:
    > Backend system for the mission system starts development
    > Such systems designed meant to drive/spawn content in the PU mostly in the form of procgen missions
    > Back-end is created and integrated with the rest of the game, UI, AI, etc.. etc..
    > Some initial content types are created and integrated with it.
    > First iteration of it is released (Alpha 3.0)
    > Continuous expansion of the types and complexity of content that will be added to such system follow.

    Maybe you might be able to understand what took most time to start getting procgen content in the PU (hint: It was not the content). If you don't, whelp, then no reasonable discussion shall ever happen with you if the topic is SC.
    For everything, it seems you guys have an excuse. "Delay's is because of X and then Y". Same story , but different time. As I said, you'll add the same example , 3 years from now , with the same excuse, while SC will still be in Alpha. 

    Btw, are you playing , I mean .. "testing" the game as we speak ?
    pantaroMaxBaconDarkpigeon

    Reporter: What's behind Blizzard success, and how do you make your gamers happy?
    Blizzard Boss: Making gamers happy is not my concern, making money.. yes!

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