For those of you who have closely followed this, why do you think publishers aren't interested in CoE? I mean, it's got some interesting features and so forth. Simply too expensive? Not enough "experience" on the dev team? Theories? I'm genuinely interested.
Keep in mind that suits tend to be some of the most risk adverse people one can meet. Thats even in the best of times. This is FAR from the best of times. Given events over the last two years, and the fact that they will not allow micro transactions/loot boxes and other such, it was only to be expected that no publisher would touch them.
Keep in mind that suits ONLY care about money and the potential ROI. Thats how they get promotions and bonus packs at the end of the year. High level games have simply become too expensive, take too long and have a poor track record over the last few years.
Long gone are the days when "Its just like World of Warcraft" would result in truck loads of money being thrown at a given project.
For those of you who have closely followed this, why do you think publishers aren't interested in CoE? I mean, it's got some interesting features and so forth. Simply too expensive? Not enough "experience" on the dev team? Theories? I'm genuinely interested.
Just the idea of permanent character death on a progression-based RPG MMO rings many "NO" bells.
These designs sound good on paper (along with FFA PvP and full-loot) and might play out well on a tabletop pen'n'paper RPG campaign, but I have yet to see ONE MMO successfully implementing those features into a fun and viable gameplay option for players.
Not one.
All they really need are some hands on demos for people to actually enjoy and the money would come rolling in. The current idea seems too abstract and takes to much study to understand. In short only a good working pre-alpha could save them now.
Actually the MUD is the thing they are supposed to have next in April. Correct me if I'm wrong.
I think that will make it or break it and I'm guessing final nails in the coffin.
"You CAN'T buy ships for RL money." - MaxBacon
"classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
For those of you who have closely followed this, why do you think publishers aren't interested in CoE? I mean, it's got some interesting features and so forth. Simply too expensive? Not enough "experience" on the dev team? Theories? I'm genuinely interested.
@SBFord
"Publisher" as in fund development, marketing and the subsequent release? There are platforms platforms - Steam, Apple, more recently Amazon etc. - but publishers of old are ..... well so rare that the word extinct woudn't be far short of the truth.
External funding bodies do exist (e.g. Elite Dangerous) but Smed's attempt earlier shows it's tough. Big or small they would want to see a path towards recovery of all investment and then a decent return on the investment. And at this stage - if they could see they would buy out the company!
Crowdfunding has the potential to expand a basic idea - funded by a few - to a concept - funded by more - to pre-alpha, alpha, beta and so on. Think of them as "hurdles". Each stage showcases a "more finished" product and - potentially - attracts more backers as it becomes less risky that the whole thing will collapse. The downside is that if it fails to clear one of these "hurdles" it will look unattractive to potential external backers. It also becomes harder to clear that hurdle without gaining money from existing - not new - backers.
For those of you who have closely followed this, why do you think publishers aren't interested in CoE? I mean, it's got some interesting features and so forth. Simply too expensive? Not enough "experience" on the dev team? Theories? I'm genuinely interested.
We have long moved from a gaming industry driven by good design ideas to one driven by business principles. So a business template has to have the baulk of its boxes ticked before they even look at a game.
Brian Fargo's video on dealing with publishers is tongue in cheek but accurately reflect the reality of the situation.
For those of you who have closely followed this, why do you think publishers aren't interested in CoE? I mean, it's got some interesting features and so forth. Simply too expensive? Not enough "experience" on the dev team? Theories? I'm genuinely interested.
Keep in mind that suits tend to be some of the most risk adverse people one can meet. Thats even in the best of times. This is FAR from the best of times. Given events over the last two years, and the fact that they will not allow micro transactions/loot boxes and other such, it was only to be expected that no publisher would touch them.
Keep in mind that suits ONLY care about money and the potential ROI. Thats how they get promotions and bonus packs at the end of the year. High level games have simply become too expensive, take too long and have a poor track record over the last few years.
Long gone are the days when "Its just like World of Warcraft" would result in truck loads of money being thrown at a given project.
It is not like WoW though, that was the other side of the problem, but I agree the primary issue must have been ROI. Even if you convince them you can make a profit, they then ask "but will it make as much as a game with an MT economy and loot boxes." They only go with projects that give the biggest ROI so you fail there.
For those of you who have closely followed this, why do you think publishers aren't interested in CoE? I mean, it's got some interesting features and so forth. Simply too expensive? Not enough "experience" on the dev team? Theories? I'm genuinely interested.
Keep in mind that suits tend to be some of the most risk adverse people one can meet. Thats even in the best of times. This is FAR from the best of times. Given events over the last two years, and the fact that they will not allow micro transactions/loot boxes and other such, it was only to be expected that no publisher would touch them.
Keep in mind that suits ONLY care about money and the potential ROI. Thats how they get promotions and bonus packs at the end of the year. High level games have simply become too expensive, take too long and have a poor track record over the last few years.
Long gone are the days when "Its just like World of Warcraft" would result in truck loads of money being thrown at a given project.
It is not like WoW though, that was the other side of the problem, but I agree the primary issue must have been ROI. Even if you convince them you can make a profit, they then ask "but will it make as much as a game with an MT economy and loot boxes." They only go with projects that give the biggest ROI so you fail there.
Agree up to a point.
Any company interested enough to "look seriously" at the game will assume that the people running it know what they are doing - and if it looks like they don't know what they are doing they wouldn't be looking or would walk away. (Maybe they did!)
The primary issue though is more fundamental than ROI i.e. Return ON investment its return OF investment. NCSoft's results showcase Wiildstar's financial failure and before they sold off SoE Sony wrote off tens of millions.
Nor is there any realistic hope of a long term "slow" recovery. The game pretty much has to recover its costs "at or around launch".
Well yes, but like startups, indie game companies are statistically more likely to fail than succeed. Anyone going into one of these endeavors should know that and have a fallback plan, otherwise they're a fool. The employee bears the majority of the responsibility and shouldn't take this kind of job if they're not willing to take that kind of risk. It's OK to feel bad for the loss of a job, but I wouldn't feel too bad in cases like this.
Save your empathy for people who lose jobs because they're seen as too old, discriminated against because of race/gender/orientation, or due to the fuck up of a careless CEO in a large corporation.
Well yes, but like startups, indie game companies are statistically more likely to fail than succeed. Anyone going into one of these endeavors should know that and have a fallback plan, otherwise they're a fool. The employee bears the majority of the responsibility and shouldn't take this kind of job if they're not willing to take that kind of risk. It's OK to feel bad for the loss of a job, but I wouldn't feel too bad in cases like this.
Save your empathy for people who lose jobs because they're seen as too old, discriminated against because of race/gender/orientation, or due to the fuck up of a careless CEO in a large corporation.
I am inclined to agree with post here.
Maybe some of those folks were in a tight spot and needed income far more than allowed them to be selective about the level of security, but it doesn't change the fact that these were very risky endeavors and the employees had to know, in the back of their minds, that there was a good chance the funding could necessitate their being laid off. Specifically in a project that started out so ignorantly ambitious and got slapped in the face hard by reality almost immediately.
Again, these layoffs are on Caspian, or he was lying about investor interest. If he had the option to take investor money and keep the development going full steam ahead, then he consciously chose the layoffs.
Now, if the entire project folds, it will be a very effective example of why folks need to stop looking at the industry in monochrome and start seeing the shades streaking throughout. Publishers can abuse their positions to the detriment of the game, but they aren't all the same and they can and do, many times, serve a far greater positive purpose on the project than a negative one.
FFA PVP? Are they kidding? What were they looking for in numbers? 1,000?
The head dev expects the population to increase to millions soon.
Soon, just like Star Citizen's motto ..
Reporter: What's behind Blizzard success, and how do you make your gamers happy? Blizzard Boss: Making gamers happy is not my concern, making money.. yes!
"How can I as gamer expect good games when just selling hilarious promises is just so much more profitable?"
That's why kickstarter & early access was one of the worst things to happen to this genre..... Once these companies saw that they can make money just on promises it opened the door to alot of bad things......Since kickstarter was introduced, I refuse to give any of these companies a dime until the game launches.
"How can I as gamer expect good games when just selling hilarious promises is just so much more profitable?"
That's why kickstarter & early access was one of the worst things to happen to this genre..... Once these companies saw that they can make money just on promises it opened the door to alot of bad things......Since kickstarter was introduced, I refuse to give any of these companies a dime until the game launches.
Much love!!
But then again, whales will always fall for KS scams, because they can P2W , even if on promises, lol!
Reporter: What's behind Blizzard success, and how do you make your gamers happy? Blizzard Boss: Making gamers happy is not my concern, making money.. yes!
"Some publishers wanted micro-transactions, loot crates, or other features that prioritize revenue over player experience. None of these options are in the best interest of our vision or players."
Despite everything else so far, and no matter what happens, this comment still makes me happy. I wish more MMO companies thought this way.
"Some publishers wanted micro-transactions, loot crates, or other features that prioritize revenue over player experience. None of these options are in the best interest of our vision or players."
Despite everything else so far, and no matter what happens, this comment still makes me happy. I wish more MMO companies thought this way.
If this will still makes you happy , then you would of been happy with investors too!
PS: I don't believe whatever he said about publishers.
Reporter: What's behind Blizzard success, and how do you make your gamers happy? Blizzard Boss: Making gamers happy is not my concern, making money.. yes!
im assuming this thread was started back up after two months because the haters were told to stay on topic in the crafting thread.
anyway my tuppence on this thread being restarted.
As to the original post restarting this thread this game isn't your typical game so if it gets close to release I advise reading up on it. If it fails you have lost nothing just like I have lost nothing
These guys are promising the world and hadn't even secured the means to offer up half of it. Any investor with even the slightest amount of business sense could see that this was half-baked from the start.
What they've basically done is gone to these investors and pleaded "Please save our asses", not "Here's how we're going to get you ROI"
Sorry about the loss of jobs, but that only 3 people's salaries are/were/will be the difference between success and struggling tells me that this game is running on a very thin edge. It will not surprise me to hear of more layoffs in this companies future.
Glad I woke up before today's 'freedom of speech' topic got locked.
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
Sorry about the loss of jobs, but that only 3 people's salaries are/were/will be the difference between success and struggling tells me that this game is running on a very thin edge. It will not surprise me to hear of more layoffs in this companies future.
Glad I woke up before today's 'freedom of speech' topic got locked.
Sorry about the loss of jobs, but that only 3 people's salaries are/were/will be the difference between success and struggling tells me that this game is running on a very thin edge. It will not surprise me to hear of more layoffs in this companies future.
Glad I woke up before today's 'freedom of speech' topic got locked.
Think you will find this thread is months old...
It also floated to the top of the forum. Yes, it's mostly news from January 2018, that @Dreadstoneofxev decided to comment on today. Another 9 post wonder coming to touch an old topic.
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
Sorry about the loss of jobs, but that only 3 people's salaries are/were/will be the difference between success and struggling tells me that this game is running on a very thin edge. It will not surprise me to hear of more layoffs in this companies future.
Glad I woke up before today's 'freedom of speech' topic got locked.
Think you will find this thread is months old...
It also floated to the top of the forum. Yes, it's mostly news from January 2018, that @Dreadstoneofxev decided to comment on today. Another 9 post wonder coming to touch an old topic.
3 months, that's not old News. I mean, what could possible change in 3 months with 3 devs ?!
Reporter: What's behind Blizzard success, and how do you make your gamers happy? Blizzard Boss: Making gamers happy is not my concern, making money.. yes!
Sorry about the loss of jobs, but that only 3 people's salaries are/were/will be the difference between success and struggling tells me that this game is running on a very thin edge. It will not surprise me to hear of more layoffs in this companies future.
Glad I woke up before today's 'freedom of speech' topic got locked.
Think you will find this thread is months old...
It also floated to the top of the forum. Yes, it's mostly news from January 2018, that @Dreadstoneofxev decided to comment on today. Another 9 post wonder coming to touch an old topic.
Had to agree with that comment there. Nothing new today just pulling up and rehashing 3 month old thread..
Comments
Keep in mind that suits ONLY care about money and the potential ROI. Thats how they get promotions and bonus packs at the end of the year. High level games have simply become too expensive, take too long and have a poor track record over the last few years.
Long gone are the days when "Its just like World of Warcraft" would result in truck loads of money being thrown at a given project.
I think that will make it or break it and I'm guessing final nails in the coffin.
"classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
Love Minecraft. And check out my Youtube channel OhCanadaGamer
Try a MUD today at http://www.mudconnect.com/@SBFord
"Publisher" as in fund development, marketing and the subsequent release? There are platforms platforms - Steam, Apple, more recently Amazon etc. - but publishers of old are ..... well so rare that the word extinct woudn't be far short of the truth.
External funding bodies do exist (e.g. Elite Dangerous) but Smed's attempt earlier shows it's tough. Big or small they would want to see a path towards recovery of all investment and then a decent return on the investment. And at this stage - if they could see they would buy out the company!
Crowdfunding has the potential to expand a basic idea - funded by a few - to a concept - funded by more - to pre-alpha, alpha, beta and so on. Think of them as "hurdles". Each stage showcases a "more finished" product and - potentially - attracts more backers as it becomes less risky that the whole thing will collapse. The downside is that if it fails to clear one of these "hurdles" it will look unattractive to potential external backers. It also becomes harder to clear that hurdle without gaining money from existing - not new - backers.
It is not like WoW though, that was the other side of the problem, but I agree the primary issue must have been ROI. Even if you convince them you can make a profit, they then ask "but will it make as much as a game with an MT economy and loot boxes." They only go with projects that give the biggest ROI so you fail there.
Any company interested enough to "look seriously" at the game will assume that the people running it know what they are doing - and if it looks like they don't know what they are doing they wouldn't be looking or would walk away. (Maybe they did!)
The primary issue though is more fundamental than ROI i.e. Return ON investment its return OF investment. NCSoft's results showcase Wiildstar's financial failure and before they sold off SoE Sony wrote off tens of millions.
Nor is there any realistic hope of a long term "slow" recovery. The game pretty much has to recover its costs "at or around launch".
Save your empathy for people who lose jobs because they're seen as too old, discriminated against because of race/gender/orientation, or due to the fuck up of a careless CEO in a large corporation.
~~ postlarval ~~
Maybe some of those folks were in a tight spot and needed income far more than allowed them to be selective about the level of security, but it doesn't change the fact that these were very risky endeavors and the employees had to know, in the back of their minds, that there was a good chance the funding could necessitate their being laid off. Specifically in a project that started out so ignorantly ambitious and got slapped in the face hard by reality almost immediately.
Again, these layoffs are on Caspian, or he was lying about investor interest. If he had the option to take investor money and keep the development going full steam ahead, then he consciously chose the layoffs.
Now, if the entire project folds, it will be a very effective example of why folks need to stop looking at the industry in monochrome and start seeing the shades streaking throughout. Publishers can abuse their positions to the detriment of the game, but they aren't all the same and they can and do, many times, serve a far greater positive purpose on the project than a negative one.
Reporter: What's behind Blizzard success, and how do you make your gamers happy?
Blizzard Boss: Making gamers happy is not my concern, making money.. yes!
How can I as gamer expect good games when just selling hilarious promises is just so much more profitable?
That makes it my business.
That's why kickstarter & early access was one of the worst things to happen to this genre..... Once these companies saw that they can make money just on promises it opened the door to alot of bad things......Since kickstarter was introduced, I refuse to give any of these companies a dime until the game launches.
But then again, whales will always fall for KS scams, because they can P2W , even if on promises, lol!
Reporter: What's behind Blizzard success, and how do you make your gamers happy?
Blizzard Boss: Making gamers happy is not my concern, making money.. yes!
Despite everything else so far, and no matter what happens, this comment still makes me happy. I wish more MMO companies thought this way.
Getting too old for this $&17!
If this will still makes you happy , then you would of been happy with investors too!
PS: I don't believe whatever he said about publishers.
Reporter: What's behind Blizzard success, and how do you make your gamers happy?
Blizzard Boss: Making gamers happy is not my concern, making money.. yes!
anyway my tuppence on this thread being restarted.
As to the original post restarting this thread this game isn't your typical game so if it gets close to release I advise reading up on it. If it fails you have lost nothing just like I have lost nothing
What they've basically done is gone to these investors and pleaded "Please save our asses", not "Here's how we're going to get you ROI"
Sorry about the loss of jobs, but that only 3 people's salaries are/were/will be the difference between success and struggling tells me that this game is running on a very thin edge. It will not surprise me to hear of more layoffs in this companies future.
Glad I woke up before today's 'freedom of speech' topic got locked.
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
Reporter: What's behind Blizzard success, and how do you make your gamers happy?
Blizzard Boss: Making gamers happy is not my concern, making money.. yes!
¯\_(ツ)_/¯