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Star Citizen, I am disappointed.

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  • penandpaperpenandpaper Member UncommonPosts: 174
    Kefo said:
    Orinori said:
    Kefo said:
    Orinori said:
    Reigning him in was always for the benefit of the investors in order to try to achieve maximum profit in cheapest turn around possible. Reigning in was never and will NEVER be for the benefit of providing the fans of the game a more awesome experience. 



    No reigning him in was for the benefit of the gamers. Chris Roberts is a thinker and a dreamer which is a great combo when it comes to coming up with new ideas but he needs someone to curb the ambition, which like I said he has admitted to.

    When someone is standing over him telling him to stay on task then you get games like wing commander. When he is allowed to run his own game studio then you get ideas that make the studio produce nothing before they realize oh shit we are out of money because we wasted time trying to perfect everything instead of focusing on a few elements and making them shine Or if he’s allowed to direct his own movie then you get crap like the wing commander movie where he was again trying for too much with not enough time and money.

    Last time Microsoft bailed his studio out and saved the games he started by cutting out the dreams and paring things down to reality. This time it seems backers are taking the place of Microsoft but unfortunately they can’t remove him from power like MS did
    This is only true when supported by investors who are looking to maximize profit and demanding timelines be kept regardless of impact to potential of the game and the user experience. Often the result of this due to how almost impossible it can be to project the workload accurately, the games original vision must be compromised and gamers are left with a half finished product with corners cut all over the place in order to satisfy investors who refuse to invest more and are only concerned with their return. This idea that gamers should be 'thankful' for getting some half finished potential in order to satisfy investor profit is pathetic. 

    With Star Citizen it is the backers who decide if the project continues, suggesting otherwise is ignoring reality. If backers are happy with development, then Star Citizen continues momentum to maximum potential. All you are really showing here is your own limited ability to envision and accept successful innovation and willfully supporting investor greed over end user experience.

    What is it you are really condemning Chris Roberts for here? An unwillingness to compromise on quality? Well now he has no need.

    p.s I actually loved the Wing Commander movie and have seen it multiple times. I am an actual Sci Fi fan :)



    I’m not sure if you read what I write but I’ve told you before and his is rooted in facts but Chris Roberts isn’t the type you give free reign to. He will continue to dream instead of focusing on building the game first. This would be why Digital Anvil tanked and had to be bought out by Microsoft, they put CR as a “creative consultant” and then they spent multiple years and millions of dollars trying to fix the mess that he created. In this case, yes, gamers should be thankful for a half finished product because without those evil suits games like freelancer would never had seen the light of day. Maybe even wing commander wouldn’t have been made if the evil suits weren’t there to make sure CR didn’t go crazy.

    Ive never suggested otherwise that backers aren’t the ones supporting SC but at some point most of the backers are going to get tired of waiting and broken promises and missed deadlines and the money will slow to a trickle. If they haven’t released the mvp or better by then then the whales alone won’t be able to keep the project propped up.

    You know nothing about me and what I can envision. I just try not to let companies pull blinders over my eyes with hype. I’m not always successful but I do my best. The only greed being shown here is CIG’s and the constant asking for more money.

    Im condemning CR for being a piss poor boss and stepping on his managers toes instead of letting them do what he hired them to do and in the end wasting time and money.

    Thats great you’ve seen the movie multiple times and loved it still doesn’t change the fact it was a commercial flop and lost millions
    I am not so sure of the bolded lines.  I think it will be yet another theme: defend, justify, rationalize, and back to defend.  It will be twenty years before anyone says, "Damn, I was duped!"
  • ArillixArillix Member UncommonPosts: 88
    @Kefo,

    Really, again with the demonizing of Chris, thought you said you don't demonize.

    Prior to founding Ascendant, Roberts was Chairman and CEO of Digital Anvil (DA), the game development and digital effects company he founded in 1996 with funding from Microsoft and Advanced Micro Devices. Roberts guided DA's growth to annual revenues of $14 million, prior to the release of many of its games in development. His innovations changed the gaming industry. His games were the first to perfect the use of 35mm film as narrative in interactive game titles, and DA became the first interactive entertainment company to produce a game title, Wing Commander, into a $25 million feature film, directed and produced by Roberts. The film starred Freddie Prinze, Jr. (I Know What You Did Last Summer), Saffron Burrows (Deep Blue Sea) and Matthew Lillard (Scooby Doo).

    DA and the video game titles it created won numerous gaming awards and the company became a digital effects powerhouse, creating all of the digital effects for the Wing Commander movie and contributing to the digital effects for several other films, including Spy Kids. In December of 2000, Roberts sold DA to Microsoft. DA remains a successful subsidiary of Microsoft and content provider for the XBox.

    Or are you saying that the IMDb bio is a lie?
    http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0730932/bio?ref_=nm_ov_bio_sm

  • Tiamat64Tiamat64 Member RarePosts: 1,537
    Arillix said:
    @Kefo,

    Really, again with the demonizing of Chris, thought you said you don't demonize.


    You have a strange definition of the word "Demonize".
    ScotchUp
  • KefoKefo Member EpicPosts: 4,229
    edited January 2018
    Arillix said:
    @Kefo,

    Really, again with the demonizing of Chris, thought you said you don't demonize.

    Prior to founding Ascendant, Roberts was Chairman and CEO of Digital Anvil (DA), the game development and digital effects company he founded in 1996 with funding from Microsoft and Advanced Micro Devices. Roberts guided DA's growth to annual revenues of $14 million, prior to the release of many of its games in development. His innovations changed the gaming industry. His games were the first to perfect the use of 35mm film as narrative in interactive game titles, and DA became the first interactive entertainment company to produce a game title, Wing Commander, into a $25 million feature film, directed and produced by Roberts. The film starred Freddie Prinze, Jr. (I Know What You Did Last Summer), Saffron Burrows (Deep Blue Sea) and Matthew Lillard (Scooby Doo).

    DA and the video game titles it created won numerous gaming awards and the company became a digital effects powerhouse, creating all of the digital effects for the Wing Commander movie and contributing to the digital effects for several other films, including Spy Kids. In December of 2000, Roberts sold DA to Microsoft. DA remains a successful subsidiary of Microsoft and content provider for the XBox.

    Or are you saying that the IMDb bio is a lie?
    http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0730932/bio?ref_=nm_ov_bio_sm

    How did Digital Anvil have revenue of 14 million if they never released a game? In fact they never released a game under Roberts helm and it took him selling the company to Microsoft for them to actually release anything.

    Also Wing commander the movie cost 25 million to make and it was a box office flop so again your “facts” are terrible.
    ScotchUp
  • KefoKefo Member EpicPosts: 4,229
    Tiamat64 said:
    Arillix said:
    @Kefo,

    Really, again with the demonizing of Chris, thought you said you don't demonize.


    You have a strange definition of the word "Demonize".
    He can’t stand to see me talk about CR badly managed past business so tries to find a way to minimize it. It’s ok I don’t mind cause it just tells me how to look out for.
  • ArillixArillix Member UncommonPosts: 88
    @Kefo,

    That is a flat out lie and you know it.

    1) Starlancer 2000 release date
    2) Bruteforce 2003 release date
    3) Freelancer 2003 release date

    Jelly of Chris Roberts, are we?
  • KefoKefo Member EpicPosts: 4,229
    Arillix said:
    @Kefo,

    That is a flat out lie and you know it.

    1) Starlancer 2000 release date
    2) Bruteforce 2003 release date
    3) Freelancer 2003 release date

    Jelly of Chris Roberts, are we?
    Starlancer - created at Warthog
    Bruteforce - released by Microsoft after they bought out Digital Anvil and gave Chris the boot
    Freelancer - see note about bruteforce.

    so looks like my point is still correct that they never released a game under Chris Roberts
    Octagon7711ScotchUp
  • ArillixArillix Member UncommonPosts: 88
    So I take take it this a lie also then?
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starlancer

  • KefoKefo Member EpicPosts: 4,229
    Arillix said:
    So I take take it this a lie also then?
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starlancer

    I’m not sure what you are referring to since I said Starlancer was created at Warthog and that’s what the Wikipedia page says. Hell if you dig deeper Chris Roberts didn’t even come up with the idea, his brother did. All Chris did was own Digital Anvil so he gets credit for it as executive producer
    ScotchUp
  • ArglebargleArglebargle Member RarePosts: 2,866
    Arillix said:
    @Kefo,

    Really, again with the demonizing of Chris, thought you said you don't demonize.

    Prior to founding Ascendant, Roberts was Chairman and CEO of Digital Anvil (DA), the game development and digital effects company he founded in 1996 with funding from Microsoft and Advanced Micro Devices. Roberts guided DA's growth to annual revenues of $14 million, prior to the release of many of its games in development. His innovations changed the gaming industry. His games were the first to perfect the use of 35mm film as narrative in interactive game titles, and DA became the first interactive entertainment company to produce a game title, Wing Commander, into a $25 million feature film, directed and produced by Roberts. The film starred Freddie Prinze, Jr. (I Know What You Did Last Summer), Saffron Burrows (Deep Blue Sea) and Matthew Lillard (Scooby Doo).

    DA and the video game titles it created won numerous gaming awards and the company became a digital effects powerhouse, creating all of the digital effects for the Wing Commander movie and contributing to the digital effects for several other films, including Spy Kids. In December of 2000, Roberts sold DA to Microsoft. DA remains a successful subsidiary of Microsoft and content provider for the XBox.

    Or are you saying that the IMDb bio is a lie?
    http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0730932/bio?ref_=nm_ov_bio_sm

    Yes, it's a lie.   Hyperbole marketing talk.   Roberts' top job has always been pumping up Chris Roberts.   Outside of cinematics, where he was innovative, Roberts has always been a disorganized, inefficient project manager who surrounds himself with brown nosers, sycophants, and fellow travellers.   Without institutional back up, he has failed.   But, as above, he'll present it as a brilliant success.   

    Given enough money, he'll probably get something out, but it won't be what was promised, and a ton of backer money will have been wasted or frittered away with self indulgent fripperies.

    Is that demonization enough for you?
    Kefo

    If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.

  • ArillixArillix Member UncommonPosts: 88
    Hahahahahahahahaha, what ever you say.

    STAR CITIZEN 3.0 IS LIVE.

    Deny that FACT all you like, will NOT change a thing.

    All backers HAVE ACCESS, and ANY that CHOOSE to gain access by getting the 45 dollar starter ship can PLAY TEST, as that is the purpose.

    LIVE WITH IT.
    kikoodutroa8
  • KefoKefo Member EpicPosts: 4,229
    Arillix said:
    Hahahahahahahahaha, what ever you say.

    STAR CITIZEN 3.0 IS LIVE.

    Deny that FACT all you like, will NOT change a thing.

    All backers HAVE ACCESS, and ANY that CHOOSE to gain access by getting the 45 dollar starter ship can PLAY TEST, as that is the purpose.

    LIVE WITH IT.
    Who are you talking to and could you tone down the crazy? You’re not helping your position or any other person who tries to defend this game.
  • KhegobierKhegobier Member UncommonPosts: 54
    tl;dr version of article: "It's not done yet."

    Okay, in other news: Water is wet.  Tell us something we didn't already know.
    MaxBacon
  • Tiamat64Tiamat64 Member RarePosts: 1,537
    Arillix said:
    Hahahahahahahahaha, what ever you say.

    STAR CITIZEN 3.0 IS LIVE.

    Deny that FACT all you like, will NOT change a thing.

    All backers HAVE ACCESS, and ANY that CHOOSE to gain access by getting the 45 dollar starter ship can PLAY TEST, as that is the purpose.

    LIVE WITH IT.
    Are you like, secretly a Star Citizen hater trying to make all the other Star Citizen white knights look bad?
    kikoodutroa8Kefo
  • HashbrickHashbrick Member RarePosts: 1,851
    I find the star citizen project completely fascinating. You have the die hard fans that have their rose colored glasses so tight they leave imprints around there eyes and then you have the haters so fueled by pure hate that any progress is no progress.

    I'd put myself on the fence eating popcorn. I am enjoying the ever changing novel of the Star Citizen story.  The amount of cash and time this phenomenon has is awe-striking.

    The industry itself doesn't know what to do about star citizen which is interesting in itself. You have Crysis suing because more than likely their deal is with retail releases in form of recurring income and are not entitled to the EA funds, so only so far recovered whatever the initial payment of licensing the engine and any support service branch with it.

    You have journalist like the OP linked that want to tell their opinion about it and how they feel.

    The fact is Chris Roberts is not helping his companies, he constantly arm chairs patches and updates without knowing if they can actual deliver. I'm sure his workers just wish he would shut his yap and I'm sure the constant bad air of the game does little to the limit morale of working there.

    This project is one of a kind and possibly the tech is not even here to make it happen, that is what is taking so long. Milestones are small and victories feel like toddler steps. Will they ever make it to what Chris Robert's envisioned? That's the unique part of the story that keeps on going. Let's see what happens.
    [[ DEAD ]] - Funny - I deleted my account on the site using the cancel account button.  Forum user is separate and still exists with no way of deleting it. Delete it admins. Do it, this ends now.
  • VrikaVrika Member EpicPosts: 6,494
    Hashbrick said:

    The industry itself doesn't know what to do about star citizen which is interesting in itself. You have Crysis suing because more than likely their deal is with retail releases in form of recurring income and are not entitled to the EA funds, so only so far recovered whatever the initial payment of licensing the engine and any support service branch with it.
    False.

    CIG released the agreement between them and Crytek, and CIG has already paid full price to use the engine. The whole agreement is available here:
      https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ej9fqb9BBf8mbd-rhPIiNRK3Rbs5M31o/view
     
  • WellspringWellspring Member EpicPosts: 1,344
    Vrika said:
    Hashbrick said:

    The industry itself doesn't know what to do about star citizen which is interesting in itself. You have Crysis suing because more than likely their deal is with retail releases in form of recurring income and are not entitled to the EA funds, so only so far recovered whatever the initial payment of licensing the engine and any support service branch with it.
    False.

    CIG released the agreement between them and Crytek, and CIG has already paid full price to use the engine. The whole agreement is available here:
      https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ej9fqb9BBf8mbd-rhPIiNRK3Rbs5M31o/view

    What page is it on?
    --------------------------------------------
  • VrikaVrika Member EpicPosts: 6,494
    edited January 2018
    Vrika said:
    Hashbrick said:

    The industry itself doesn't know what to do about star citizen which is interesting in itself. You have Crysis suing because more than likely their deal is with retail releases in form of recurring income and are not entitled to the EA funds, so only so far recovered whatever the initial payment of licensing the engine and any support service branch with it.
    False.

    CIG released the agreement between them and Crytek, and CIG has already paid full price to use the engine. The whole agreement is available here:
      https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ej9fqb9BBf8mbd-rhPIiNRK3Rbs5M31o/view

    What page is it on?
    Page 13 of 40. Use the page numbering written in blue, not the numbering written in black.
    Wellspring
     
  • MaxBaconMaxBacon Member EpicPosts: 7,275
    What page is it on?
    13 of that PDF. They did a buyout for ~$2mill.
    Wellspring
  • HashbrickHashbrick Member RarePosts: 1,851
    Vrika said:
    Hashbrick said:

    The industry itself doesn't know what to do about star citizen which is interesting in itself. You have Crysis suing because more than likely their deal is with retail releases in form of recurring income and are not entitled to the EA funds, so only so far recovered whatever the initial payment of licensing the engine and any support service branch with it.
    False.

    CIG released the agreement between them and Crytek, and CIG has already paid full price to use the engine. The whole agreement is available here:
      https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ej9fqb9BBf8mbd-rhPIiNRK3Rbs5M31o/view
    I wouldn't call that false as there is a clause in there for in-game items and public release. That would be assuming Crytek sees the ships as the "cash shop". I'd call it a grey area and one that will probably be battled on in the court.
    [[ DEAD ]] - Funny - I deleted my account on the site using the cancel account button.  Forum user is separate and still exists with no way of deleting it. Delete it admins. Do it, this ends now.
  • MaxBaconMaxBacon Member EpicPosts: 7,275
    edited January 2018
    Hashbrick said:
    I wouldn't call that false as there is a clause in there for in-game items and public release. That would be assuming Crytek sees the ships as the "cash shop". I'd call it a grey area and one that will probably be battled on in the court.
    That statement of yours makes no sense, such is not a target of the complaint, there's nothing to be battled about it unless they were trying to claim rights over it.
  • HashbrickHashbrick Member RarePosts: 1,851
    edited January 2018
    MaxBacon said:
    Hashbrick said:
    I wouldn't call that false as there is a clause in there for in-game items and public release. That would be assuming Crytek sees the ships as the "cash shop". I'd call it a grey area and one that will probably be battled on in the court.
    That statement of yours makes no sense, such is not a target of the complaint, there's nothing to be battled there.
    It makes perfect sense.  Virka said my reasoning is false since the deal was publicly announced and that Crytek isn't missing out on any compensation by it still being in Alpha.  But by the document there is a clause for public release and cash shops.  So I'm sure it will be brought up as it will be used against the time of the project.
    [[ DEAD ]] - Funny - I deleted my account on the site using the cancel account button.  Forum user is separate and still exists with no way of deleting it. Delete it admins. Do it, this ends now.
  • MaxBaconMaxBacon Member EpicPosts: 7,275
    Hashbrick said:
    It makes perfect sense.  Virka said my reasoning is false since the deal was publicly announced and that Crytek isn't missing out on any compensation by it still being in Alpha.  But by the document there is a clause for public release and cash shops.  So I'm sure it will be brought up as it will be used against the time of the project.
    Specify the clause and context as to where they are entitled to earnings from a cash shop and the game sales on release.
  • KefoKefo Member EpicPosts: 4,229
    Hashbrick said:
    MaxBacon said:
    Hashbrick said:
    I wouldn't call that false as there is a clause in there for in-game items and public release. That would be assuming Crytek sees the ships as the "cash shop". I'd call it a grey area and one that will probably be battled on in the court.
    That statement of yours makes no sense, such is not a target of the complaint, there's nothing to be battled there.
    It makes perfect sense.  Virka said my reasoning is false since the deal was publicly announced and that Crytek isn't missing out on any compensation by it still being in Alpha.  But by the document there is a clause for public release and cash shops.  So I'm sure it will be brought up as it will be used against the time of the project.
    I wouldn’t say the deal is publicly announced but more CIG’s lawyers released it into the Wild as a what feels like big FU to Crytek instead of having it as a sealed document for the courts to look over.
  • HashbrickHashbrick Member RarePosts: 1,851
    Kefo said:
    Hashbrick said:
    MaxBacon said:
    Hashbrick said:
    I wouldn't call that false as there is a clause in there for in-game items and public release. That would be assuming Crytek sees the ships as the "cash shop". I'd call it a grey area and one that will probably be battled on in the court.
    That statement of yours makes no sense, such is not a target of the complaint, there's nothing to be battled there.
    It makes perfect sense.  Virka said my reasoning is false since the deal was publicly announced and that Crytek isn't missing out on any compensation by it still being in Alpha.  But by the document there is a clause for public release and cash shops.  So I'm sure it will be brought up as it will be used against the time of the project.
    I wouldn’t say the deal is publicly announced but more CIG’s lawyers released it into the Wild as a what feels like big FU to Crytek instead of having it as a sealed document for the courts to look over.
    True, I found it odd it was publicly available, makes sense. 
    [[ DEAD ]] - Funny - I deleted my account on the site using the cancel account button.  Forum user is separate and still exists with no way of deleting it. Delete it admins. Do it, this ends now.
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