F-that, I definitely going to say it, just as I did during the kickstarter when I first read that mantra being sprouted.
I suspect Spatial IOS is pulling back on the MMORPG market as their first client has been struggling for many months to stabilize and they clearly lay some of the blame on Spatial.
That $500M in investment capital Spatial got? Didn't come from the game industry, but rather from others who see potential in their cloud solution for other industries.
Don't believe for a minute this underfunded indie team of limited talent has figured out or is even close to competing whatever they hope to do to replace it.
Making MMORPGs is hard folks, ask Richard, Brad, Mark or Chris and they'll tell you all about it.
Man IMHO that is just pure... unadulterated... harsh truth...
ouch
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
My analogy was about illusions people have when they first get something thinking it will be the end all of their problems, and having that not be the case.
So basically Caspien was foolish when he thought spatial OS was the end all to CoE's problems, you mean, right?
(and whether or not he was doesn't help their current situation now either, of course)
I don't think I would use the term foolish.. I used the term Starry Eyed, I think that is more apt in this situation. He pinned a lot of hopes on this program doing something amazing he wanted done, and after working with it, discovered, it can't do it.
Ok..so.. now what.
A witch hunt is not going to help anything here, so, now the real question is, is what he has available able to do what he wants, or will this be one of those "it was a nice idea, but not gonna happen" and we have to ask ourselves, is this a deal breaker for us.
if it is.. then it is.. sorry and maybe next game will be the game for you.
For me.. My character staying logged in and controlled by an AI, was not a sale point for me (come to think about it, I didn't even know about this little feature till now, after reading some other forum posts talking about it, as it's not listed on their web site and I don't follow this game enough to read all the news updates) and now that I do.. I can honesty say.. I am not sure if I even want it, given back when I played EQ, if we DC'ed, the AI would take over for us, if we were in combat, it would complete the fight for us.. which often ended with my character dead, brutalized, and not were I lost connection.
To each their own.
That's fine if you don't mind the game no longer having the concept of your character staying logged on, but... Caspien never said he was ditching the concept of your character staying logged on. So what if the lack of Spatial OS makes such a concept unfeasible, but Caspien tries to implement it and cram it in anyways on grounds that it's one of CoE's innovative and unique features? The game will probably end up being a huge sloppy buggy broken-framerate mess (like what Star Citizen currently is because Cryengine and Lumberyard couldn't handle what they wanted for that game, either)
My analogy was about illusions people have when they first get something thinking it will be the end all of their problems, and having that not be the case.
So basically Caspien was foolish when he thought spatial OS was the end all to CoE's problems, you mean, right?
(and whether or not he was doesn't help their current situation now either, of course)
I don't think I would use the term foolish.. I used the term Starry Eyed, I think that is more apt in this situation. He pinned a lot of hopes on this program doing something amazing he wanted done, and after working with it, discovered, it can't do it.
Ok..so.. now what.
A witch hunt is not going to help anything here, so, now the real question is, is what he has available able to do what he wants, or will this be one of those "it was a nice idea, but not gonna happen" and we have to ask ourselves, is this a deal breaker for us.
if it is.. then it is.. sorry and maybe next game will be the game for you.
For me.. My character staying logged in and controlled by an AI, was not a sale point for me (come to think about it, I didn't even know about this little feature till now, after reading some other forum posts talking about it, as it's not listed on their web site and I don't follow this game enough to read all the news updates) and now that I do.. I can honesty say.. I am not sure if I even want it, given back when I played EQ, if we DC'ed, the AI would take over for us, if we were in combat, it would complete the fight for us.. which often ended with my character dead, brutalized, and not were I lost connection.
To each their own.
That's fine if you don't mind the game no longer having the concept of your character staying logged on, but... Caspien never said he was ditching the concept of your character staying logged on. So what if the lack of Spatial OS makes such a concept unfeasible, but Caspien tries to implement it anyways? The game will probably end up being a huge sloppy buggy broken-framerate mess (like what Star Citizen currently is because Cryengine and Lumberyard couldn't handle what they wanted for that game, either)
Then it sucks balls and we all quit..
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
My guess is they are having financial trouble. Hence the term "financial" reasons as them stopping use of SpatialOS.
Also
In a year they replicated SpatialOS? Or did the whole Soulbound replicate SpatialOS...spend all the time and money making it...when...they could have just used SpatialOS for pretty much same thing?
Again, seems to be financial issues for Soulbound. Biggest clue is dropping SpatialOS for "financial reasons". It doesn't say they dropped it because they made something better or SpatialOS wasn't working for them or anything of the sort. It was purely because they didn't have money to use it.
Responsible budgeting doesn't equate to financial trouble, normally it is a preventative solution to avoiding such.
Responsible budgeting would mean choosing the right solution in the 1st place.
F-that, I definitely going to say it, just as I did during the kickstarter when I first read that mantra being sprouted.
I suspect Spatial IOS is pulling back on the MMORPG market as their first client has been struggling for many months to stabilize and they clearly lay some of the blame on Spatial.
That $500M in investment capital Spatial got? Didn't come from the game industry, but rather from others who see potential in their cloud solution for other industries.
Don't believe for a minute this underfunded indie team of limited talent has figured out or is even close to competing whatever they hope to do to replace it.
Making MMORPGs is hard folks, ask Richard, Brad, Mark or Chris and they'll tell you all about it.
Your post is mostly based on assumptions and very little fact. Arguments are better based on fact. Just sayin.
If and when the game releases and it's a smashing success we can talk about facts. Meanwhile all we have is conjecture and the gospel according to JW.
Likewise. If and when the game fails then all the naysayers get to say "I told you so". But until then you could at least try to base your conjectures on something real, rather then assumptions, especially if you are trying to show folks -How bad this project is-.
Except SpatialOS was hailed as the second coming for MMO creation by SBS, and it *did* fail to produce the results SBS said it would (or they could no longer afford it). Many people said SpatialOS wouldn't be the solution SBS thought it would be -- turns out they were correct.
Come to find out, MMOs are a bit more difficult and way more expensive to develop than people realize. This game already reminds me of Greedmonger in so many ways.
We (as in the general public) are not in the office working alongside the team and have no idea all the facts surrounding their decision.
SpatialOS didn't fail that we know of nor did SBS ever say they couldn't afford it from what I read in the SoE update. Contrary they said that the -cost of using SpatialOS was too high-. There is a difference you know. As even you have stated the cost of creating MMOs are high, we all know that, so why make substantial purchases if you don't need too and after weighing the odds you decide to use other less expensive means is, in my opinion, good budgeting?
Will this choice change the project immensely? Who knows at this time, we will just have to wait to see. I imagine that SBS definitely has a better idea then the public does though, don't you?
Except they literally told us the facts in the SoE regarding their decision to drop SpatialOS ...
"First, while SpatialOS provided load-balancing and fault tolerance for all our spatial workers, there were still many workers that were not spatial
in nature. Workers such as our authentication and login server, our AI
system, and our Procedural Story Engine. For these, we still needed our
own load balancer, fault-tolerance, and cross-process communication."
So, the first stated reason was that it failed to meet their expectations. So,
yes, it *did* fail to work in the way SBS originally proclaimed, which was:
"We don't have to worry about networking on the server, load balancing
all the entities in the world, replication of entities across multiple
server nodes, cross-process communication, collision detection of
millions of entities, etc. In short, we don't have to worry about
developing any of the technology that makes an MMO, an MMO.
"
"Second, we started to have some concerns about the financial viability of SpatialOS for our needs. With SpatialOS, our hosting fees would have been more expensive, which would have forced us to increase our prices ... Unfortunately, it remains an expensive solution for us."
Lets be honest here -- their budget is *super* tiny. So yes, they couldn't afford it, as it was too expensive. There isn't anything wrong with that, but lets not miss that the second stated reason for dropping SpatialOS *was* financial reasons. And you're right, perhaps it didn't fit into their new budget this year, but that still means that they couldn't afford it. Spin it how you want -- it still means the same thing; they dropped SpatialOS due to financial reasons. Lets also not miss the fact that one of the biggest reasons CoE's small budget "wasn't a problem" was due to the reliance on SpatialOS ... Which turns out is too expensive for them to use.
To summarize, SpatialOS *did* fail to meet SBS's expectations as originally claimed, and SBS *did* drop SpatialOS due to financial reasons. Both of these were the central points in the SoE regarding the development of the game in 2017.
My guess is they are having financial trouble. Hence the term "financial" reasons as them stopping use of SpatialOS.
Also
In a year they replicated SpatialOS? Or did the whole Soulbound replicate SpatialOS...spend all the time and money making it...when...they could have just used SpatialOS for pretty much same thing?
Again, seems to be financial issues for Soulbound. Biggest clue is dropping SpatialOS for "financial reasons". It doesn't say they dropped it because they made something better or SpatialOS wasn't working for them or anything of the sort. It was purely because they didn't have money to use it.
Responsible budgeting doesn't equate to financial trouble, normally it is a preventative solution to avoiding such.
Responsible budgeting would mean choosing the right solution in the 1st place.
This is a really good point, too. Funding for the game has only gone up in the past year, meaning that the budget should be bigger (if not the same). So, maybe they never asked how much SpatialOS charged to see if it even fit into their limited budget in the first place?
You know I do think SBS is definitely doing one thing wrong, and it is unfortunate. In their attempt to be transparent with their community it only gives all the Naysayers more ammunition to use against them and point the finger.
Do you really assume that other MMOs out there haven't made decisions and changed their minds throughout the process of creating a game? Honestly, do you really think they have it all worked out from day one? Not! Hell, most are still making changes even after they launch. But see they aren't transparent so you don't get to be witness to all the trails and errors they make along the way.
The transparency is awesome for those that understand creating anything is a process and sometimes things need to change for whatever reasons. But for those that don't understand than it is just something they can pull out when needed and try to ruin the credibility of something.
You know I do think SBS is definitely doing one thing wrong, and it is unfortunate. In their attempt to be transparent with their community it only gives all the Naysayers more ammunition to use against them and point the finger.
He's free to completely shut his mouth. Of course, odds are the game's funding will dry up pretty fast once he's silent about things but hey, sometimes you gotta take the bad with the good.
F-that, I definitely going to say it, just as I did during the kickstarter when I first read that mantra being sprouted.
I suspect Spatial IOS is pulling back on the MMORPG market as their first client has been struggling for many months to stabilize and they clearly lay some of the blame on Spatial.
That $500M in investment capital Spatial got? Didn't come from the game industry, but rather from others who see potential in their cloud solution for other industries.
Don't believe for a minute this underfunded indie team of limited talent has figured out or is even close to competing whatever they hope to do to replace it.
Making MMORPGs is hard folks, ask Richard, Brad, Mark or Chris and they'll tell you all about it.
Your post is mostly based on assumptions and very little fact. Arguments are better based on fact. Just sayin.
If and when the game releases and it's a smashing success we can talk about facts. Meanwhile all we have is conjecture and the gospel according to JW.
Likewise. If or when the game fails then all the naysayers get to say "I told you so". But until then you could at least try to base your conjectures on something real, rather then assumptions, especially if you are trying to convince folks -How bad this project is-.
This project is doing a fine job all on it's own convincing folks how bad this project is. @Iselin and @Kyleran are only pointing out what others are already seeing too.
There is no positive spin on Spatial OS. This is bad news. Historically speaking, this type of announcement is an indicator of big problems.
You know I do think SBS is definitely doing one thing wrong, and it is unfortunate. In their attempt to be transparent with their community it only gives all the Naysayers more ammunition to use against them and point the finger.
Do you really assume that other MMOs out there haven't made decisions and changed their minds throughout the process of creating a game? Honestly, do you really think they have it all worked out from day one? Not! Hell, most are still making changes even after they launch. But see they aren't transparent so you don't get to be witness to all the trails and errors they make along the way.
The transparency is awesome for those that understand creating anything is a process and sometimes things need to change for whatever reasons. But for those that don't understand that it is just something they can pull out when needed and try to ruin the credibility of something.
Transparency is not just a backer reward you know. It's also the #1 tool for generating hype and more donations. And there are very few crowd-funded indie studios if any, that are truly transparent. What you have instead is the selectively managed illusion of transparency.
But yes, it is definitely a double-edged sword.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
Its one thing to drop a major component and show the progress they have done without it instead of explaining with words on how its somehow a good thing. Its the same bullshit story SOE gave when they dropped storybricks and we know exactly what happened with that game.
Its been 2 years since the talk started about the game but so far they have shit for progress, this project will go on until the money is gone. No sane investor would want to put more money into this game because the chance of them ever getting the money back is tiny.
Iselin: And the next person who says "but it's a business, they need to make money" can just go fuck yourself.
Do you really assume that other MMOs out there haven't made decisions and changed their minds throughout the process of creating a game? Honestly, do you really think they have it all worked out from day one? Not! Hell, most are still making changes even after they launch. But see they aren't transparent so you don't get to be witness to all the trails and errors they make along the way.
Absolutely not.
However, the difference between SBS and other MMOs is that other MMOs had publishers, established teams/reputations, and a reasonable budget to develop a game. So, SBS should've been a bit more responsible with their limited budget and chosen these "open source, free" options (that are now suddenly so much better than SpatialOS) to begin with, or actually asked for a reasonable amount of money to make an MMO during their Kickstarter.
You know I do think SBS is definitely doing one thing wrong, and it is unfortunate. In their attempt to be transparent with their community it only gives all the Naysayers more ammunition to use against them and point the finger.
Do you really assume that other MMOs out there haven't made decisions and changed their minds throughout the process of creating a game? Honestly, do you really think they have it all worked out from day one? Not! Hell, most are still making changes even after they launch. But see they aren't transparent so you don't get to be witness to all the trails and errors they make along the way.
The transparency is awesome for those that understand creating anything is a process and sometimes things need to change for whatever reasons. But for those that don't understand than it is just something they can pull out when needed and try to ruin the credibility of something.
If transparency is such a problem? Then the next question is what does SBS have to hide.
It's funny to me how easily folks will take this Caspian guy's word at face value. He has every reason, an enormous amount of incentive in fact, to spin everything that is actually negative for the project to seem like no big deal.
All of their funding is driven by hype and faith. If people start to think the project is just going to fail, it will be self-fulfilling spiral to completion as new crowd-funding dries up overnight.
You know I do think SBS is definitely doing one thing wrong, and it is unfortunate. In their attempt to be transparent with their community it only gives all the Naysayers more ammunition to use against them and point the finger.
Do you really assume that other MMOs out there haven't made decisions and changed their minds throughout the process of creating a game? Honestly, do you really think they have it all worked out from day one? Not! Hell, most are still making changes even after they launch. But see they aren't transparent so you don't get to be witness to all the trails and errors they make along the way.
The transparency is awesome for those that understand creating anything is a process and sometimes things need to change for whatever reasons. But for those that don't understand than it is just something they can pull out when needed and try to ruin the credibility of something.
If transparency is such a problem? Then the next question is what does SBS have to hide.
I personally don't think they have anything to hide and have been as transparent with the community as they possibly can be, regardless of their trials and errors. That is something I have always admired and not witnessed in the creation of any other game I have been involved in.
But, after spending time in these forums I have been witness to how folks can take that transparency and twist around to fit their own agendas, just so they can say they are right. I see some folks that are good at making judgments from the sidelines with absolutely no hands-on experience themselves. And I think that is harmful to a potentially great/good game.
Do I think SBS is perfect? No, of course not. I think they are a small team doing the best they can to create the game they/we want, with a large community that believes in them, supports them and wants to see them succeed. Do I think they will definitely be a success? There is never any guarantees and only time will tell, but I certainly hope so. Do I think SBS is trying to pull the wool over my eyes and rip me off? Definitely not! And I never have felt that way in the two and a half years I have been part of the community.
Will never launch, not even close, its all about the money, and it was never there, you can only spin so much before you fly out of orbit, and man this guy is so not orbiting anything let alone Earth. A pitch is great, but what's happening here is a long pitch, and the bait was found wanting he couldn't reel in an investor, tried to spin it, then had to claw back massively to try and keep the "Dream", "Adventurous whatever" alive.
He may have great ideas for a game, but sucks harder than a Dyson at business and investor presentation.
Plus he hasn't the personality/charisma to pull a rabbit out of the hat, he just bloody annoys the rabbit and it bites his hand every time he reaches in to grab it.
Apart from that, love the idea of the game but this guy is done he just doesn't see it.
Under 20% of these projects make it to launch, and I mean proper launch not a protracted Alpha state BS, then the stats for making it past year one is frankly depressing, so of course you pitch the dream like crazy, not make the pitch sound crazy, which is where this is going wrong before we really have to worry about the above stats.
Wow, I initially started laughing because I thought new sites were reporting poorly... Then I started laughing more when they were indeed reporting correctly.
How little have they've gotten done that you can just chuck out what should be vast swaths of time investment. And still feel/act as though you haven't given anything up.
_______________________________
Though it's not like Improbable/SpatialOS has had any good showings of their tech. The only game that is playable using their tech is Worlds Adrift. And it plays like utter crap: with constant item duplication bugs, desync after desync (causing teleportation, cheap deaths, and similar), obvious server side freezes, and similar.
Post edited by anemo on
Practice doesn't make perfect, practice makes permanent.
"At one point technology meant making tech that could get to the moon, now it means making tech that could get you a taxi."
You know I do think SBS is definitely doing one thing wrong, and it is unfortunate. In their attempt to be transparent with their community it only gives all the Naysayers more ammunition to use against them and point the finger.
Do you really assume that other MMOs out there haven't made decisions and changed their minds throughout the process of creating a game? Honestly, do you really think they have it all worked out from day one? Not! Hell, most are still making changes even after they launch. But see they aren't transparent so you don't get to be witness to all the trails and errors they make along the way.
The transparency is awesome for those that understand creating anything is a process and sometimes things need to change for whatever reasons. But for those that don't understand than it is just something they can pull out when needed and try to ruin the credibility of something.
Here's the thing, other kickstarter projects have taken the wrong road, and when realized usually the devs admit "their mistake", explain the plan to fix it, and the delays to the project or lost time which resulted from it.
They don't shrug off a major change saying there's no impact, that an alternate solution is not only planned, but already in hand as well.
Caspian has a strong track record of not really knowing what he is doing (role playing a software developer, best descriptor ever) so one must take whatever he says about their future solutions with a large measure of scepticism.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
It's funny to me how easily folks will take this Caspian guy's word at face value. He has every reason, an enormous amount of incentive in fact, to spin everything that is actually negative for the project to seem like no big deal.
All of their funding is driven by hype and faith. If people start to think the project is just going to fail, it will be self-fulfilling spiral to completion as new crowd-funding dries up overnight.
That's the thing, with all "faith based" endeavours, their adherents "want to believe" the promise is real, even more so if they've invested large amounts of time and or cash in "the cause."
They defend such efforts vigorously, viewing any attack on "the gospel" or "the prophet" as an attack on them personally and all detractors as being unfaithful or even heretical.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I already had a feeling this game was going to end up shitty but changing something like this when they're supposed to be as far along as they are? Lol. RIP people who gave them money.
I already had a feeling this game was going to end up shitty but changing something like this when they're supposed to be as far along as they are? Lol. RIP people who gave them money.
I will never feel sorry for people that put $10k into a kickstarter, I might feel sorry for their spouse.
Iselin: And the next person who says "but it's a business, they need to make money" can just go fuck yourself.
I already had a feeling this game was going to end up shitty but changing something like this when they're supposed to be as far along as they are? Lol. RIP people who gave them money.
The sad part is that IMHO you won’t even see the negative of losing SpatialOS until they actually stress test things with a hundred thousand players on a single server and mass battles and keeping track of millions of items. They claim they used the tech in their Jousting Demo... which was 2 players in a tiny,dedicated shard of a game.
SpatialOS may never have worked... I had my doubts about it as any sane person would about pinning your development hopes on another companies unproven tech. But to think that their tiny team just swapped out SpatialOS for some open source products and this is going to get the job done is just laughable. If they really did build a better version of SpatialOS then they should pause development of the game and focus on their tech because apparently a few guys Role-Playing Developers built something as good as Improbable which just got a half a billion dollar investment and they did it in just a few months.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
I already had a feeling this game was going to end up shitty but changing something like this when they're supposed to be as far along as they are? Lol. RIP people who gave them money.
I will never feel sorry for people that put $10k into a kickstarter, I might feel sorry for their spouse.
er.. you mean we gamers should rely on the big publishers to make innovative games with a passionate dev-team? risky uncertain backing is supporting is caring is voting is encouraging is loving true games!
Comments
ouch
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
"First, while SpatialOS provided load-balancing and fault tolerance for all our spatial workers, there were still many workers that were not spatial in nature. Workers such as our authentication and login server, our AI system, and our Procedural Story Engine. For these, we still needed our own load balancer, fault-tolerance, and cross-process communication."
So, the first stated reason was that it failed to meet their expectations. So, yes, it *did* fail to work in the way SBS originally proclaimed, which was:
"We don't have to worry about networking on the server, load balancing all the entities in the world, replication of entities across multiple server nodes, cross-process communication, collision detection of millions of entities, etc. In short, we don't have to worry about developing any of the technology that makes an MMO, an MMO. "
"Second, we started to have some concerns about the financial viability of SpatialOS for our needs. With SpatialOS, our hosting fees would have been more expensive, which would have forced us to increase our prices ... Unfortunately, it remains an expensive solution for us."
Lets be honest here -- their budget is *super* tiny. So yes, they couldn't afford it, as it was too expensive. There isn't anything wrong with that, but lets not miss that the second stated reason for dropping SpatialOS *was* financial reasons. And you're right, perhaps it didn't fit into their new budget this year, but that still means that they couldn't afford it. Spin it how you want -- it still means the same thing; they dropped SpatialOS due to financial reasons. Lets also not miss the fact that one of the biggest reasons CoE's small budget "wasn't a problem" was due to the reliance on SpatialOS ... Which turns out is too expensive for them to use.
To summarize, SpatialOS *did* fail to meet SBS's expectations as originally claimed, and SBS *did* drop SpatialOS due to financial reasons. Both of these were the central points in the SoE regarding the development of the game in 2017.
Do you really assume that other MMOs out there haven't made decisions and changed their minds throughout the process of creating a game? Honestly, do you really think they have it all worked out from day one? Not! Hell, most are still making changes even after they launch. But see they aren't transparent so you don't get to be witness to all the trails and errors they make along the way.
The transparency is awesome for those that understand creating anything is a process and sometimes things need to change for whatever reasons. But for those that don't understand than it is just something they can pull out when needed and try to ruin the credibility of something.
There is no positive spin on Spatial OS. This is bad news. Historically speaking, this type of announcement is an indicator of big problems.
But yes, it is definitely a double-edged sword.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
Its been 2 years since the talk started about the game but so far they have shit for progress, this project will go on until the money is gone. No sane investor would want to put more money into this game because the chance of them ever getting the money back is tiny.
However, the difference between SBS and other MMOs is that other MMOs had publishers, established teams/reputations, and a reasonable budget to develop a game. So, SBS should've been a bit more responsible with their limited budget and chosen these "open source, free" options (that are now suddenly so much better than SpatialOS) to begin with, or actually asked for a reasonable amount of money to make an MMO during their Kickstarter.
All of their funding is driven by hype and faith. If people start to think the project is just going to fail, it will be self-fulfilling spiral to completion as new crowd-funding dries up overnight.
But, after spending time in these forums I have been witness to how folks can take that transparency and twist around to fit their own agendas, just so they can say they are right. I see some folks that are good at making judgments from the sidelines with absolutely no hands-on experience themselves. And I think that is harmful to a potentially great/good game.
Do I think SBS is perfect? No, of course not. I think they are a small team doing the best they can to create the game they/we want, with a large community that believes in them, supports them and wants to see them succeed. Do I think they will definitely be a success? There is never any guarantees and only time will tell, but I certainly hope so. Do I think SBS is trying to pull the wool over my eyes and rip me off? Definitely not! And I never have felt that way in the two and a half years I have been part of the community.
A pitch is great, but what's happening here is a long pitch, and the bait was found wanting he couldn't reel in an investor, tried to spin it, then had to claw back massively to try and keep the "Dream", "Adventurous whatever" alive.
He may have great ideas for a game, but sucks harder than a Dyson at business and investor presentation.
Plus he hasn't the personality/charisma to pull a rabbit out of the hat, he just bloody annoys the rabbit and it bites his hand every time he reaches in to grab it.
Apart from that, love the idea of the game but this guy is done he just doesn't see it.
Under 20% of these projects make it to launch, and I mean proper launch not a protracted Alpha state BS, then the stats for making it past year one is frankly depressing, so of course you pitch the dream like crazy, not make the pitch sound crazy, which is where this is going wrong before we really have to worry about the above stats.
How little have they've gotten done that you can just chuck out what should be vast swaths of time investment. And still feel/act as though you haven't given anything up.
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Though it's not like Improbable/SpatialOS has had any good showings of their tech. The only game that is playable using their tech is Worlds Adrift. And it plays like utter crap: with constant item duplication bugs, desync after desync (causing teleportation, cheap deaths, and similar), obvious server side freezes, and similar.
Practice doesn't make perfect, practice makes permanent.
"At one point technology meant making tech that could get to the moon, now it means making tech that could get you a taxi."
They don't shrug off a major change saying there's no impact, that an alternate solution is not only planned, but already in hand as well.
Caspian has a strong track record of not really knowing what he is doing (role playing a software developer, best descriptor ever) so one must take whatever he says about their future solutions with a large measure of scepticism.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
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Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
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They defend such efforts vigorously, viewing any attack on "the gospel" or "the prophet" as an attack on them personally and all detractors as being unfaithful or even heretical.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
No use in letting them down now! Support what you would like to see!
SpatialOS may never have worked... I had my doubts about it as any sane person would about pinning your development hopes on another companies unproven tech. But to think that their tiny team just swapped out SpatialOS for some open source products and this is going to get the job done is just laughable. If they really did build a better version of SpatialOS then they should pause development of the game and focus on their tech because apparently a few guys Role-Playing Developers built something as good as Improbable which just got a half a billion dollar investment and they did it in just a few months.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
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