As in 'You don't need to spend more to keep competitive but we sure aren't going to stop you, now here's our 50 million dollar man!'
Per usual you are taking Chris' comment completely out of context to make him look like the saint he isn't.
Neither an angel neither a devil, just a normal thing, they placed the offer, it's your choice to do it or not, always clarifying that you don't have to because it's not a forced thing as it's not planned to be something you can only get by buying it; but it is what funds the game. It's one attraction by nature for those who spend more and want all the shinies for something they like / are fan of, etc...
So in other words, if the game was on-time released, their families would've been living on the streets, eh? And they say these delays do no good. Well there you go, beat that silver-lining.
Actually, if the game was released on time, those supposed families WOULD be living on the street because then the refund scenario would likely be off the table.
I think it's rather logical, if we play by the argument the OP did it was thanks to that money they weren't living on the street, those supposed families should be thankful the game didn't release on time and the chain of events led them to be able to get their money back from CIG when they hit struggles with their life.
Both scenarios don't seem that relevant to how much money would you have spent (like CrazKanuk mentioned as well).
Money spent is money spent: this is a good point.
However, markets also behave like herds. Maybe you weren't around in 2012-2013: CIG may have not forced anyone to beggar themselves, but they sure didn't stop or urge caution from their community when the hype train was leaving the station.
If anything, they encouraged big thinking and big spending: an ideology that was reflected back and amplified by their community.
I don't recall them ever stating 'please donate responsibly' or something to that effect. Instead, they celebrated their "50 million dollar man" and stoked this absurd culture of dick-measuring based on how much one was invested (some in their community taking this to a literal extreme).
I don't think I can spell it out much more dichromatically.
To be fair, the whole dick measuring culture pre-dates CIG. It pre-dates video games. In fact, it's the whole premise of lootboxes.
I think that the most revolutionary thing they did was promote the ability to sell these items. I'm sure even that isn't revolutionary, but it's less common for sure. Due to this I think that people were/are treating these purchases like investments and I think that's one reason it's a bit more polarizing than most.
I wouldn't really expect someone selling me something to play down their product. It's like a snake oil salesman trying to sell me and telling me about how it actually doesn't do anything. It just doesn't happen like that. In fact, I'd go as far as to say that CIG gave ample opportunity for people to leave. They even set a date after which refunds would NOT be allowed anymore. I mean if that doesn't spur you on then I just don't know what to tell you. If I had bought a $1000 package, shit even a $100 package, and there was as much controversy as there was at that time AND the company was telling of how they were going to STOP offering refunds. I probably would just get a refund.
I definitely agree that what they were selling was over-sold. I'm not shocked by that (being I've bought many an infomercial product). However, I also think that CIG did a LOT more than many companies would. At this point, since they have an Alpha, I don't think people SHOULD be eligible for refunds. It's no different than buying an Early Access title off Steam now. Honestly, I'd be ok with that policy, too.
As in 'You don't need to spend more to keep competitive but we sure aren't going to stop you, now here's our 50 million dollar man!'
Per usual you are taking Chris' comment completely out of context to make him look like the saint he isn't.
Neither an angel neither a devil, just a normal thing, they placed the offer, it's your choice to do it or not, always clarifying that you don't have to because it's not a forced thing as it's not planned to be something you can only get by buying it; but it is what funds the game.
See my post on the previous page about fostering a culture of big spending.
People are scratching their heads wondering how someone could dig themselves so deep, well that's part of the answer.
"The simple is the seal of the true and beauty is the splendor of truth" -Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar Authored 139 missions in VendettaOnline and 6 tracks in Distance
Even if it is dick measuring and you choose your dick size over your family is still not anyone's fault but your own.
Constantine, The Console Poster
"One of the most difficult tasks men can perform, however much others may despise it, is the invention of good games and it cannot be done by men out of touch with their instinctive selves." - Carl Jung
See my post on the previous page about fostering a culture of big spending.
People are scratching their heads wondering how someone could dig themselves so deep, well that's part of the answer.
I don't think it is a culture, I think it's part of online gaming itself, especially mobile games and MMOs "Look! Shinies!". That is why we tend to pay hell lot more for the shinies of something, especially on Pre-Orders and backing pledges for something.
Now that offer exists everywhere in our society, it's up to us as individuals to react properly to the usual marketing and control our spending, I can just afford to throw 3k a video game being worth for me what for others 60$ are (I'm the 60$ tho xD).
I worry is actually about the culture of gambling on video games, such as the loot boxes discussion, that pushes on potential proven addictions that they aren't even disclaiming.
See my post on the previous page about fostering a culture of big spending.
People are scratching their heads wondering how someone could dig themselves so deep, well that's part of the answer.
I don't think it is a culture, I think it's part of online gaming itself, especially mobile games and MMOs "Look! Shinies!". That is why we tend to pay hell lot more for the shinies of something, especially on Pre-Orders and backing pledges for something.
Now that offer exists everywhere in our society, it's up to us as individuals to react properly to the usual marketing and control our spending, I can just afford to throw 3k a video game being worth for me what for others 60$ are (I'm the 60$ tho xD).
I worry is actually about the culture of gambling on video games, such as the loot boxes discussion, that pushes on potential proven addictions that they aren't even disclaiming.
It's not part of online gaming, it is just the virtual side of the same coin. You think people are overspending only in video games? If you'd consider that a problem, in the grand scheme of things video games aren't even a tiniest fraction of that issue.
Constantine, The Console Poster
"One of the most difficult tasks men can perform, however much others may despise it, is the invention of good games and it cannot be done by men out of touch with their instinctive selves." - Carl Jung
Hero? Hardly qualifies by any definition of the term.
Who the hell made you the Arbiter of who is or is not a hero? Do you do anything other than hover over your keyboard waiting to jump in and reply to every damn topic posted to this web site? Get a life....sheesh
Well the OP asserted that he was a hero because he enabled 2 other families (at minimum) get a refund so they could put food on the table. So if that's heroics, then taking him to court and suing him for money that would, inevitably, be reimbursed by CIG would be taking food OFF the table for families. You know.... as long as we're painting with big brushes.
Also, I do find the irony in your post amusing.
I have been a member here for 13+ years. 425 posts. I fail to see the irony. My signature....now that is irony
It's better to lurk in forums and be thought a fool...than to endlessly "Quote" and remove all doubts.
Hero? Hardly qualifies by any definition of the term.
Who the hell made you the Arbiter of who is or is not a hero? Do you do anything other than hover over your keyboard waiting to jump in and reply to every damn topic posted to this web site? Get a life....sheesh
Well the OP asserted that he was a hero because he enabled 2 other families (at minimum) get a refund so they could put food on the table. So if that's heroics, then taking him to court and suing him for money that would, inevitably, be reimbursed by CIG would be taking food OFF the table for families. You know.... as long as we're painting with big brushes.
Also, I do find the irony in your post amusing.
I have been a member here for 13+ years. 425 posts. I fail to see the irony. My signature....now that is irony
If you don't see the irony in posting for into a clearly clickbait thread, adding zero value to the conversation and then telling someone else to get a life.... I .... just can't help you see it.
Then again, I have difficulties with irony, so maybe that's not irony at all. I'm Canadian and grew up with Alanis Morissette, so if you want to blame someone for my misuse of irony, I'd start there.
Talking about the other lawsuit, Lior Leser, another lawyer (represents tech companies and brands), having the same take on that suit as the copyright lawyer Leonard French, the first seconds of the video resume it pretty much:
In one side this guy on this ridiculous rant of accusations never having a coherent line of thought as to what he accuses and much less how he proves the crime of fraud, if this guy even is doing this I would say more likely it's just putting up a show for attention; in the other side Crytek lawsuit with the recent developments... Crazy times.
My thoughts when i see a title with SC in it "not a single f**k is given"
so much BS drama surround this game.
Indeed!
Speaking of addiction I dare say when SC finally goes bully up or releases a final end product some people in the boards here are going to go into major and I mean major withdrawal!!!!
Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.
Did anything ever come of the DCBA suit? I remember I personally contacted the DCBA back when this was a thing and they had zero investigations into CIG at the time and the case file given was not valid. So this guy could, in theory, be lying. I'd be interested to know if there is any other hard evidence that this guy isn't simply a troll to the nth degree.
Did you disclose the person's name when you contacted the DCBA?
I only ask because you just accused a DCBA staff for not following proper protocols and violating privacy laws.
Always sad when someone tries to eke out more time from their 15 minutes. This is a ridiculous lawsuit, all to stroke his ego because we're talking about him again. I remember when he started this "grand and noble crusade" he went on the DS subreddit to gloat in it. Dude gets off on this attention.
Have to laugh at a lot of these comments, which are direct attacks against the guy in video. I'm pretty sure Roberts attorney will be there. Be interesting to see how Judge responds!
I used to live in a society that respected peoples thoughts and ideals with debate not attacks. Times sure changed, where the good has to watch what they say and the bad can do or say whatever they want, and the ugly are too disgusting to respond too!
Have to admit when SC is talked about, there is no surrender on either side and both have a no prisoner attitude!
“The reason I talk to myself is because I’m the only one whose answers I accept.”
―
George Carlin
Hero? Hardly qualifies by any definition of the term.
Who the hell made you the Arbiter of who is or is not a hero? Do you do anything other than hover over your keyboard waiting to jump in and reply to every damn topic posted to this web site? Get a life....sheesh
Well the OP asserted that he was a hero because he enabled 2 other families (at minimum) get a refund so they could put food on the table. So if that's heroics, then taking him to court and suing him for money that would, inevitably, be reimbursed by CIG would be taking food OFF the table for families. You know.... as long as we're painting with big brushes.
Also, I do find the irony in your post amusing.
I'm sorry....But if anyone in a Family spends there last dime investing in a video game rather than put food on the table tells me there is something wrong with them....The company didn't tell them instead of buying food give the money to me...That was all there choice....And as far as the guy who spent money on a video game rather than put food on the table for his family is NOT a man and def not a good father or Husband.....
Hero? Hardly qualifies by any definition of the term.
Who the hell made you the Arbiter of who is or is not a hero? Do you do anything other than hover over your keyboard waiting to jump in and reply to every damn topic posted to this web site? Get a life....sheesh
Well the OP asserted that he was a hero because he enabled 2 other families (at minimum) get a refund so they could put food on the table. So if that's heroics, then taking him to court and suing him for money that would, inevitably, be reimbursed by CIG would be taking food OFF the table for families. You know.... as long as we're painting with big brushes.
Also, I do find the irony in your post amusing.
I'm sorry....But if anyone in a Family spends there last dime investing in a video game rather than put food on the table tells me there is something wrong with them....The company didn't tell them instead of buying food give the money to me...That was all there choice....And as far as the guy who spent money on a video game rather than put food on the table for his family is NOT a man and def not a good father or Husband.....
Why does everyone assume that the guy spent all his money on a video game instead of putting food on the table? Could it be possible that the guy invested hundreds or thousands years ago and suddenly his financial situation changed (like he was laid off for example) and so he sought a refund from the game.
Gotta love everyone demonizing the guy without knowing all the facts
Why does everyone assume that the guy spent all his money on a video game instead of putting food on the table? Could it be possible that the guy invested hundreds or thousands years ago and suddenly his financial situation changed (like he was laid off for example) and so he sought a refund from the game.
Gotta love everyone demonizing the guy without knowing all the facts
Funny that you use the word "investment" there, investments tend to be none refundable. They pay out when they pay out or you sell to another willing investor.
If he invested the money and lost them, maybe he should have done his research and actually invested in something more profitable, had he put the money in bitcoins instead he could have funded his own game by now. That is of course risky but so is investing in an indie game, well funded or not. Ask the investors of Stargate worlds if you don't believe me.
If on the other hand he payed an insane amount for a game he do have the right to change his mind. One would think he would have put some more research into things before paying up such a sum though since he changed his mind even before launch but as you say, he may have his reasons.
In either case, I wont hire that guy as my stockbroker...
So this guy has to hire a lawyer to file a claim in Chris Robert's place of business,assuming he is a LLC,i think he is.
What i didn't grasp is what exact type of fraud he is claiming.HE can file complaints to various bodies,usually the FTC i believe it is in the USA and have them investigated IF the FTC feels like it. His complaints would be based on deceptive business practices in several forms,such as marketing ethics,videos,promises etc etc,however that is through the files to the FTC who unless they see big winfalls,likely will file that file under a huge stack of other files,never to be seen.
Example the FTC sued a popular YouTuber because it involved Disney,so they filed their coffers with i believe was 200k or maybe was more ,i forget exact number.
His avenue through small claims court will be different,is he trying to sue for personal loss and what losses would that be?He already got his refund based on that judgment and suit,so he is not going to be able to use that again.So what is left,i don't see it.
So imo his best avenue is to get a lot of signatures and complain to the FTC who would or i mean COULD fine Chris's business,not Chris several hundred thousand.However what usually happens is a warning if they decide was not purposely or intended or knowingly deceptive,example he could use is that in game design there is nothing positive and that your perception of the game may change at any moment and is expected.
So personally,unless Chris just says screw it ,give him some money to shut up,he is not going to accomplish anything.I also have a bigger picture idea as to what this guy is all about,i have run into a couple guys exactly like this over my time and imo being that i have seen this type of personality only twice and both were the same,i feel my opinion is warranted and that is that he feels slighted by the world because he is handicapped.I mean i have been around,talked to probably a million people over my lifetime from many sports teams to schools to workplaces etc etc and to only see this type of personality 2x until now 3x,it kind of says something.This does not mean that i do not feel he is 100% correct because he is,Chris Roberts code of ethics is a LOT different than mine but try and prove it and get some money out of it..good luck.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
I should also make note that law was introduced several years ago now that allows a defendant and or courts to claim the suit is nothing more than a personal attack or harassment ,a waste of time to the courts judicial system and frivolous and the plaintiff and or lawyer can actually be fined by the court.
Chris has his lawyer that has been around him for many years,going way back,he might just attempt to counter sue this guy claiming this guy is trying to slander his name and his business and for no other reason.
So this guys attempt imo ,he will have a tough time getting a lawyer to carry out the act,unless there is something important not mentioned in the video.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Hero? Hardly qualifies by any definition of the term.
Who the hell made you the Arbiter of who is or is not a hero? Do you do anything other than hover over your keyboard waiting to jump in and reply to every damn topic posted to this web site? Get a life....sheesh
Well the OP asserted that he was a hero because he enabled 2 other families (at minimum) get a refund so they could put food on the table. So if that's heroics, then taking him to court and suing him for money that would, inevitably, be reimbursed by CIG would be taking food OFF the table for families. You know.... as long as we're painting with big brushes.
Also, I do find the irony in your post amusing.
I'm sorry....But if anyone in a Family spends there last dime investing in a video game rather than put food on the table tells me there is something wrong with them....The company didn't tell them instead of buying food give the money to me...That was all there choice....And as far as the guy who spent money on a video game rather than put food on the table for his family is NOT a man and def not a good father or Husband.....
Why does everyone assume that the guy spent all his money on a video game instead of putting food on the table? Could it be possible that the guy invested hundreds or thousands years ago and suddenly his financial situation changed (like he was laid off for example) and so he sought a refund from the game.
Gotta love everyone demonizing the guy without knowing all the facts
I read one guy said he needed a refund because he was no longer employed and so needed the money. Life happens.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
Comments
To be fair, the whole dick measuring culture pre-dates CIG. It pre-dates video games. In fact, it's the whole premise of lootboxes.
I think that the most revolutionary thing they did was promote the ability to sell these items. I'm sure even that isn't revolutionary, but it's less common for sure. Due to this I think that people were/are treating these purchases like investments and I think that's one reason it's a bit more polarizing than most.
I wouldn't really expect someone selling me something to play down their product. It's like a snake oil salesman trying to sell me and telling me about how it actually doesn't do anything. It just doesn't happen like that. In fact, I'd go as far as to say that CIG gave ample opportunity for people to leave. They even set a date after which refunds would NOT be allowed anymore. I mean if that doesn't spur you on then I just don't know what to tell you. If I had bought a $1000 package, shit even a $100 package, and there was as much controversy as there was at that time AND the company was telling of how they were going to STOP offering refunds. I probably would just get a refund.
I definitely agree that what they were selling was over-sold. I'm not shocked by that (being I've bought many an infomercial product). However, I also think that CIG did a LOT more than many companies would. At this point, since they have an Alpha, I don't think people SHOULD be eligible for refunds. It's no different than buying an Early Access title off Steam now. Honestly, I'd be ok with that policy, too.
Crazkanuk
----------------
Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
----------------
People are scratching their heads wondering how someone could dig themselves so deep, well that's part of the answer.
"The simple is the seal of the true and beauty is the splendor of truth" -Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar
Authored 139 missions in Vendetta Online and 6 tracks in Distance
Now that offer exists everywhere in our society, it's up to us as individuals to react properly to the usual marketing and control our spending, I can just afford to throw 3k a video game being worth for me what for others 60$ are (I'm the 60$ tho xD).
I worry is actually about the culture of gambling on video games, such as the loot boxes discussion, that pushes on potential proven addictions that they aren't even disclaiming.
Anyone with any pledge package - even a starter pledge - could have passed the 50 million dollar line.
Have fun
It's better to lurk in forums and be thought a fool...than to endlessly "Quote" and remove all doubts.
so much BS drama surround this game.
If you don't see the irony in posting for into a clearly clickbait thread, adding zero value to the conversation and then telling someone else to get a life.... I .... just can't help you see it.
Then again, I have difficulties with irony, so maybe that's not irony at all. I'm Canadian and grew up with Alanis Morissette, so if you want to blame someone for my misuse of irony, I'd start there.
Crazkanuk
----------------
Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
----------------
In one side this guy on this ridiculous rant of accusations never having a coherent line of thought as to what he accuses and much less how he proves the crime of fraud, if this guy even is doing this I would say more likely it's just putting up a show for attention; in the other side Crytek lawsuit with the recent developments... Crazy times.
Speaking of addiction I dare say when SC finally goes bully up or releases a final end product some people in the boards here are going to go into major and I mean major withdrawal!!!!
Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.
I only ask because you just accused a DCBA staff for not following proper protocols and violating privacy laws.
Original - http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3748466&userid=0&perpage=40&pagenumber=4551#post462019951 (paywall)
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2016-07-15-through-gritted-teeth-star-citizen-developer-gives-player-whopping-usd2500-refund
CIG is sued by Crytek
https://www.polygon.com/2017/12/14/16776300/crytek-star-citizen-lawsuit-cig-rsi
EX-Backer StreetRoller sues Chris Roberts
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ojx7VcbowYQ
I used to live in a society that respected peoples thoughts and ideals with debate not attacks. Times sure changed, where the good has to watch what they say and the bad can do or say whatever they want, and the ugly are too disgusting to respond too!
Have to admit when SC is talked about, there is no surrender on either side and both have a no prisoner attitude!
― George Carlin
I'm sorry....But if anyone in a Family spends there last dime investing in a video game rather than put food on the table tells me there is something wrong with them....The company didn't tell them instead of buying food give the money to me...That was all there choice....And as far as the guy who spent money on a video game rather than put food on the table for his family is NOT a man and def not a good father or Husband.....
Gotta love everyone demonizing the guy without knowing all the facts
{{{{{Gotta love everyone demonizing the guy without knowing all the facts}}}}}
Funny,
kinda sounds like you and all the other Chris Roberts, CIG , and Star Citizen suporter demonizing 24/7 365, hypocrite much?
If he invested the money and lost them, maybe he should have done his research and actually invested in something more profitable, had he put the money in bitcoins instead he could have funded his own game by now. That is of course risky but so is investing in an indie game, well funded or not. Ask the investors of Stargate worlds if you don't believe me.
If on the other hand he payed an insane amount for a game he do have the right to change his mind. One would think he would have put some more research into things before paying up such a sum though since he changed his mind even before launch but as you say, he may have his reasons.
In either case, I wont hire that guy as my stockbroker...
What i didn't grasp is what exact type of fraud he is claiming.HE can file complaints to various bodies,usually the FTC i believe it is in the USA and have them investigated IF the FTC feels like it.
His complaints would be based on deceptive business practices in several forms,such as marketing ethics,videos,promises etc etc,however that is through the files to the FTC who unless they see big winfalls,likely will file that file under a huge stack of other files,never to be seen.
Example the FTC sued a popular YouTuber because it involved Disney,so they filed their coffers with i believe was 200k or maybe was more ,i forget exact number.
His avenue through small claims court will be different,is he trying to sue for personal loss and what losses would that be?He already got his refund based on that judgment and suit,so he is not going to be able to use that again.So what is left,i don't see it.
So imo his best avenue is to get a lot of signatures and complain to the FTC who would or i mean COULD fine Chris's business,not Chris several hundred thousand.However what usually happens is a warning if they decide was not purposely or intended or knowingly deceptive,example he could use is that in game design there is nothing positive and that your perception of the game may change at any moment and is expected.
So personally,unless Chris just says screw it ,give him some money to shut up,he is not going to accomplish anything.I also have a bigger picture idea as to what this guy is all about,i have run into a couple guys exactly like this over my time and imo being that i have seen this type of personality only twice and both were the same,i feel my opinion is warranted and that is that he feels slighted by the world because he is handicapped.I mean i have been around,talked to probably a million people over my lifetime from many sports teams to schools to workplaces etc etc and to only see this type of personality 2x until now 3x,it kind of says something.This does not mean that i do not feel he is 100% correct because he is,Chris Roberts code of ethics is a LOT different than mine but try and prove it and get some money out of it..good luck.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Chris has his lawyer that has been around him for many years,going way back,he might just attempt to counter sue this guy claiming this guy is trying to slander his name and his business and for no other reason.
So this guys attempt imo ,he will have a tough time getting a lawyer to carry out the act,unless there is something important not mentioned in the video.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey