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Soulbound Drops SpatialOS in Favor of Internal Solutions - Chronicles of Elyria News

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  • WellspringWellspring Member EpicPosts: 1,200
    As alluded to in the State of Eylria article, I found the SpatialOS patch notes from Oct 3, 2017, where they discontinued the JavaScript SDK (https://docs.improbable.io/reference/12.0/releases/release-notes)

    JavaScript SDK

    • The Experimental JavaScript SDK is now deprecated. As part of its “experimental” status we have done a thorough evaluation of the Javascript SDK through its usage, features and maintenance cost. As a result the decision was taken to halt its development. Please contact us if you have any queries.

    1) Seems to have been a bad decision on SBS to have relied on an "experimental" branch of the platform in the first place.
    2) Why would SpatialOS discontinue support for this branch, when they had such a big partner as CoE relying on it? After all, they visited each other last February (https://forums.improbable.io/t/blog-chronicles-of-elyria-by-soulbound-studios/1527)

    Has MMORPG.com reached out to SpatialOS for a comment? I wonder if there's any more to the story.


    TorvalJamesGoblin
    --------------------------------------------
  • GaladournGaladourn Member RarePosts: 1,802
    Remember when EQ:N ditched Storyboards? Or when Repop ditched Hero?
    How'd that work out?

    To me, this is a HUGE red flag.
    StoryBricks*
    TorvalGeezerGamer
  • TorvalTorval Member LegendaryPosts: 19,663
    Dakeru said:
    Bombastus said:


    Uh, yeah...

    Wasn't SpatialOS going to be the "magic bullet" that would enable the game to manage the 100K characters that will be permanently active on the server, by enabling dynamic load-distribution across the cloud ?

    I guess Soulbound will just quickly develop their own version of SpatialOS, I mean, how difficult can it really be, amirite ? :wink:



    They already have implemented their solution. We are just hearing about it now.
    Yeah the whole time they said spatialos is what makes the impossible possible.

    Now you claim they came up with a housemade alternative that works better and they quickly created it in between development - EZ
    Conjecture - Maybe what Spatial promised, for the price point, didn't deliver in practice and wasn't as robust as needed. In that case it's possible that building lite functional versions of those frameworks is plausible.

    That is me projecting my experience with some expensive SDK engines I've used. They're very powerful if you do things one way or they actually aren't as powerful in real world dynamics because those bottlenecks are elsewhere and out of our control so that power couldn't be fully leveraged. That means we paid a lot for something we could get the most out of.

    You get what you pay for, but getting your money's worth is another story.

    I hope no one claimed it would be easy. Easy is not a word I'd use to describe the process of getting code and systems to work as intended in the real world. 'Amazed' is usually the first word that comes to mind, every single time.
    GaladournWellspringBombastusmystichaze
    take back the hobby: https://www.reddit.com/r/patientgamers/

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  • TheScavengerTheScavenger Member EpicPosts: 3,321
    My guess is they are having financial trouble. Hence the term "financial" reasons as them stopping use of SpatialOS.

    Also

    In a year they replicated SpatialOS? Or did the whole Soulbound replicate SpatialOS...spend all the time and money making it...when...they could have just used SpatialOS for pretty much same thing?

    Again, seems to be financial issues for Soulbound. Biggest clue is dropping SpatialOS for "financial reasons". It doesn't say they dropped it because they made something better or SpatialOS wasn't working for them or anything of the sort. It was purely because they didn't have money to use it.
    Kyleran

    My Skyrim, Fallout 4, Starbound and WoW + other game mods at MODDB: 

    https://www.moddb.com/mods/skyrim-anime-overhaul



  • GeezerGamerGeezerGamer Member EpicPosts: 8,767
    edited January 2018
    Dakeru said:
    Bombastus said:


    Uh, yeah...

    Wasn't SpatialOS going to be the "magic bullet" that would enable the game to manage the 100K characters that will be permanently active on the server, by enabling dynamic load-distribution across the cloud ?

    I guess Soulbound will just quickly develop their own version of SpatialOS, I mean, how difficult can it really be, amirite ? :wink:



    They already have implemented their solution. We are just hearing about it now.
    Yeah the whole time they said spatialos is what makes the impossible possible.

    Now you claim they came up with a housemade alternative that works better and they quickly created it in between development - EZ
    Since SpatialOS just got a half billion dollar investment...

    To believe this you would have to believe that this development team (with nerf swords) was able to replace all that in just a few months with just a few people...

    If you believe that...maybe he should put the game on hold and market his homemade version of SpatialOS instead.

    Again-  Reality seems to be a foreign concept when you are Roleplaying a Development team.



    This is going to be an RPG you have to close your eyes in order to play

    YashaX
  • mystichazemystichaze Member UncommonPosts: 378
    edited January 2018


    As someone who isn't familiar with game development, how does testing a voxel client help develop an unreal engine game? Wouldn't you need to spend time ironing out issues in a voxel client to allow features to work in ways that might not necessarily need the same considerations in an unreal engine game? Why not do testing in the same client/engine you actually intend people to play in, basically?



    To answer your question EponyzDamor VoxElyria and the unreal engine are connected. VoxElyria is created so Alpha 1 players can test the backend mechanics sooner. As others have stated above

    https://chroniclesofelyria.com/blog/22013/The-Countdown-to-VoxElyria-Begins
  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 11,063
    Lest we forget... THIS was how Caspien described SpatialOS and what it enabled them to do:

    This partnership has been in the works for a while now and answers the fundamental question people have been asking "How are you going to build a world this large, with a hundred thousands players, and all these never-before-seen features?!" The answer is SpatialOS. 

    SpatialOS will act as the fabric that our game is built on. It's the server technology that will allow us to support millions of entities in the world. Built first and foremost as a scalable, distributed operating system for games, SpatialOS means we don't have to spend time developing the things that generally take the most time when building a new MMO. 

    We don't have to worry about networking on the server, load balancing all the entities in the world, replication of entities across multiple server nodes, cross-process communication, collision detection of millions of entities, etc. In short, we don't have to worry about developing any of the technology that makes an MMO, an MMO.

    https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/soulboundstudios/chronicles-of-elyria-epic-story-mmorpg-with-aging/posts/1592188

    JamesGoblinGaladournDakeruWellspringAsm0deusdadazar

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Starvault's reponse to criticism related to having a handful of players as the official "test" team for a supposed MMO: "We've just have another 10ish folk kind enough to voulenteer added tot the test team" (SIC) This explains much about the state of the game :-)

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

    My ignore list finally has one occupant after 12 years. I am the strongest supporter of free speech on here, but free speech does not mean forced listening. Have fun my friend. Hope you find a new stalking target.

  • WizardryWizardry Member LegendaryPosts: 16,462
    Reading between the lines because devs never tell you the whole story or the whole truth.....We need to save money so cut out some overhead.Perhaps even stole some code and ideas from the software,who really knows.I love when it is not an idea we need for our game but originally it was ,,lol.

    Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.

  • NildenNilden Member EpicPosts: 2,899
    Don't worry the fabric that the game is built on, not a big deal.

    lol
    Slapshot1188YashaX[Deleted User]Pingu2012

    "You CAN'T buy ships for RL money." - MaxBacon

    "classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon

    Love Minecraft. And check out my Youtube channel OhCanadaGamer



  • NildenNilden Member EpicPosts: 2,899
    Dakeru said:
    Bombastus said:


    Uh, yeah...

    Wasn't SpatialOS going to be the "magic bullet" that would enable the game to manage the 100K characters that will be permanently active on the server, by enabling dynamic load-distribution across the cloud ?

    I guess Soulbound will just quickly develop their own version of SpatialOS, I mean, how difficult can it really be, amirite ? :wink:



    They already have implemented their solution. We are just hearing about it now.
    Yeah the whole time they said spatialos is what makes the impossible possible.

    Now you claim they came up with a housemade alternative that works better and they quickly created it in between development - EZ
    Since SpatialOS just got a half billion dollar investment...

    To believe this you would have to believe that this development team (with nerf swords) was able to replace all that in just a few months with just a few people...

    If you believe that...maybe he should put the game on hold and market his homemade version of SpatialOS instead.

    Again-  Reality seems to be a foreign concept when you are Roleplaying a Development team.



    This is going to be an RPG you have to close your eyes in order to play

    Getting video not available...

    "You CAN'T buy ships for RL money." - MaxBacon

    "classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon

    Love Minecraft. And check out my Youtube channel OhCanadaGamer



  • GeezerGamerGeezerGamer Member EpicPosts: 8,767
    Nilden said:
    Dakeru said:
    Bombastus said:


    Uh, yeah...

    Wasn't SpatialOS going to be the "magic bullet" that would enable the game to manage the 100K characters that will be permanently active on the server, by enabling dynamic load-distribution across the cloud ?

    I guess Soulbound will just quickly develop their own version of SpatialOS, I mean, how difficult can it really be, amirite ? :wink:



    They already have implemented their solution. We are just hearing about it now.
    Yeah the whole time they said spatialos is what makes the impossible possible.

    Now you claim they came up with a housemade alternative that works better and they quickly created it in between development - EZ
    Since SpatialOS just got a half billion dollar investment...

    To believe this you would have to believe that this development team (with nerf swords) was able to replace all that in just a few months with just a few people...

    If you believe that...maybe he should put the game on hold and market his homemade version of SpatialOS instead.

    Again-  Reality seems to be a foreign concept when you are Roleplaying a Development team.



    This is going to be an RPG you have to close your eyes in order to play

    Getting video not available...
    It's the Imagination Theme Song from Epcot.

    Nilden
  • GaladournGaladourn Member RarePosts: 1,802
    i'm betting the "hundreds of thousands" of players will soon be replaced by "thousands" and will actually launch (if ever) with "hundreds"...
    SpottyGekko
  • GeezerGamerGeezerGamer Member EpicPosts: 8,767
    Galadourn said:
    Remember when EQ:N ditched Storyboards? Or when Repop ditched Hero?
    How'd that work out?

    To me, this is a HUGE red flag.
    StoryBricks*
    THank you

  • TorvalTorval Member LegendaryPosts: 19,663
    Galadourn said:
    Remember when EQ:N ditched Storyboards? Or when Repop ditched Hero?
    How'd that work out?

    To me, this is a HUGE red flag.
    StoryBricks*
    THank you

    Thank you* :lol: :lol:
    GeezerGamerblueturtle13
    take back the hobby: https://www.reddit.com/r/patientgamers/

    traveller, interloper, anomaly
    ༼ つ ◕◕ ༽つ

    It only took 3 people 8 words to rock Blizzard to its core.
  • GeezerGamerGeezerGamer Member EpicPosts: 8,767
    Torval said:
    Galadourn said:
    Remember when EQ:N ditched Storyboards? Or when Repop ditched Hero?
    How'd that work out?

    To me, this is a HUGE red flag.
    StoryBricks*
    THank you

    Thank you* :lol: :lol:
    I see what you did there.
    Torval
  • SpottyGekkoSpottyGekko Member EpicPosts: 6,910
    Galadourn said:
    i'm betting the "hundreds of thousands" of players will soon be replaced by "thousands" and will actually launch (if ever) with "hundreds"...
    Don't worry, Jeromy Walsh will just write a 20-page "update" to explain why 100's was always really the number they intended to use. People just misunderstand him all the time...
    GaladournYashaX
  • BombastusBombastus Member UncommonPosts: 9
    SbS isn't creating a solution out of nowhere. They are changing to a combination of several third party middleware providers instead of relying on just one. This has been a progressive decision that included a number of factors (cost being one of them). It doesn't drastically change the amount of work they have to do. They arent making anything. They will need to hire an ops engineer down the road, which they had not planned on doing because of their partnership with Improbable. No big deal there.
    mystichazeYashaXPingu2012[Deleted User]
  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 11,063
    edited January 2018
    SbS isn't creating a solution out of nowhere. They are changing to a combination of several third party middleware providers instead of relying on just one. This has been a progressive decision that included a number of factors (cost being one of them). It doesn't drastically change the amount of work they have to do. They arent making anything. They will need to hire an ops engineer down the road, which they had not planned on doing because of their partnership with Improbable. No big deal there.
    Lol.  Caspien himself defined SpatialOS as “the fabric that our game is built on” 

    You try and spin it as No big deal...  too funny to even answer.  

    By the way welcome to MMORPG.COM  ;)  Just promise me that you aren’t another one of those CoE Ambassadors sent here to shut down Harbingers 
    YashaXKyleran[Deleted User]

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Starvault's reponse to criticism related to having a handful of players as the official "test" team for a supposed MMO: "We've just have another 10ish folk kind enough to voulenteer added tot the test team" (SIC) This explains much about the state of the game :-)

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

    My ignore list finally has one occupant after 12 years. I am the strongest supporter of free speech on here, but free speech does not mean forced listening. Have fun my friend. Hope you find a new stalking target.

  • GeezerGamerGeezerGamer Member EpicPosts: 8,767
    Bombastus said:
    SbS isn't creating a solution out of nowhere. They are changing to a combination of several third party middleware providers instead of relying on just one. This has been a progressive decision that included a number of factors (cost being one of them). It doesn't drastically change the amount of work they have to do. They arent making anything. They will need to hire an ops engineer down the road, which they had not planned on doing because of their partnership with Improbable. No big deal there.
    Lol.  Caspien himself defined SpatialOS as “the fabric that our game is built on” 

    You try and spin it as No big deal...  too funny to even answer.  

    By the way welcome to MMORPG.COM  ;)
    When the stitching hasn't started, then it's easy to swap out bolts of fabric
    YashaXanemo
  • SpottyGekkoSpottyGekko Member EpicPosts: 6,910
    Bombastus said:
    SbS isn't creating a solution out of nowhere. They are changing to a combination of several third party middleware providers instead of relying on just one. ...
    Anyone with many years of IT experience will tell you that integrating a third-party application to supplement your project can be quite tricky.

    Using several third-party apps will complicate integration a great deal more.

    I expect next year's "state-of-the-game" will announce another additional delay of the already delayed launch date.
    YashaX[Deleted User]
  • BombastusBombastus Member UncommonPosts: 9




    SbS isn't creating a solution out of nowhere. They are changing to a combination of several third party middleware providers instead of relying on just one. This has been a progressive decision that included a number of factors (cost being one of them). It doesn't drastically change the amount of work they have to do. They arent making anything. They will need to hire an ops engineer down the road, which they had not planned on doing because of their partnership with Improbable. No big deal there.


    Lol.  Caspien himself defined SpatialOS as “the fabric that our game is built on” 

    You try and spin it as No big deal...  too funny to even answer.  

    By the way welcome to MMORPG.COM  ;)  Just promise me that you aren’t another one of those CoE Ambassadors sent here to shut down Harbingers 



    You know, I was halfway through a post outing myself as an Ambassador when I caught your edit. No matter. I don't mind harbingers. To be honest, my initial reaction was similar to yours. Thankfully, the details presented in the blog post above paint a very clear picture of the events. And, as an Ambassador, I closely follow all the public information available about CoE. I am not here to shut down the harbingers, but rather to be a harbinger myself: I bring you facts. If anyone is spinning information, it isn't me.
    TorvalmystichazeYashaX[Deleted User]Azrael_Antaryon
  • UngoodUngood Member EpicPosts: 2,757
    As an Artist, I know I have fallen into the trap of looking at an at program and thinking that it was going to be the answer I was looking for, that is would solve all the weaknesses that the program I was currently using seemed to have, to only discover after using the program that it was not the ultimate solution as I first thought, and ended up going back to some of my older programs to get things done.

    Sometimes, we can walk into something with starry eyes, only to have reality slap us down a bit, and maybe that is what happened here.

    I think we have all been at this place at one time in our lives, especially as gamers, be it buying that have all, end all gaming mouse only for it to piss us off in a week, or that perfect computer chair that ends up making our ass chap and we go back to siting on the sofa.

    Life happens.. its' not the end of the world.. sorta speak.
    Bombastusmystichaze
  • EponyxDamorEponyxDamor Member RarePosts: 726
    edited January 2018
    Bombastus said:

     If anyone is spinning information, it isn't me.

    spin
    verb
    1. turn or cause to turn or whirl around quickly.
      "the girl spun around in alarm"
      synonyms:revolve, rotate, turn, go round, whirl, gyrate, circle More
      "the bike wheels are spinning"
      whirl, wheel, twirl, turn, swing, twist, swivel, pirouette, pivot
      "she spun around to face him"
      • (of a person's head) give a sensation of dizziness.
        "the figures were enough to make her head spin"
        synonyms:reel, whirl, go around, swim
        "her head was spinning"
      • Cricket
        impart a revolving motion to (a ball) when bowling.
      • (of a ball) move through the air with a revolving motion.
      • give (a news story or other information) a particular interpretation, especially a favorable one.
      • shape (sheet metal) by pressure applied during rotation on a lathe.
        "spun metal components"

    Bombastus said:

    They arent making anything. They will need to hire an ops engineer down the road, which they had not planned on doing because of their partnership with Improbable. No big deal there. 

    Not saying I disagree with you, but spin is an interpretation. You presented just that, as is everyone else here.


    Slapshot1188Pingu2012
  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 11,063
    edited January 2018
    Bombastus said:

     If anyone is spinning information, it isn't me.

    spin
    verb
    1. turn or cause to turn or whirl around quickly.
      "the girl spun around in alarm"
      synonyms:revolve, rotate, turn, go round, whirl, gyrate, circle More
      "the bike wheels are spinning"
      whirl, wheel, twirl, turn, swing, twist, swivel, pirouette, pivot
      "she spun around to face him"
      • (of a person's head) give a sensation of dizziness.
        "the figures were enough to make her head spin"
        synonyms:reel, whirl, go around, swim
        "her head was spinning"
      • Cricket
        impart a revolving motion to (a ball) when bowling.
      • (of a ball) move through the air with a revolving motion.
      • give (a news story or other information) a particular interpretation, especially a favorable one.
      • shape (sheet metal) by pressure applied during rotation on a lathe.
        "spun metal components"

    Bombastus said:

    They arent making anything. They will need to hire an ops engineer down the road, which they had not planned on doing because of their partnership with Improbable. No big deal there. 





    I was going to point that out but I’ve learned my lesson about trying to reason with the Ivory Tower. As Caspien himself said a year ago... he was “sharing the gospel of CoE”.  I’m done trying to reason with the converts.

    So back to rational conversation with folks that understand changing the “fabric that our game is built on” is actually a big deal.
    YashaXKyleran[Deleted User]

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Starvault's reponse to criticism related to having a handful of players as the official "test" team for a supposed MMO: "We've just have another 10ish folk kind enough to voulenteer added tot the test team" (SIC) This explains much about the state of the game :-)

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

    My ignore list finally has one occupant after 12 years. I am the strongest supporter of free speech on here, but free speech does not mean forced listening. Have fun my friend. Hope you find a new stalking target.

  • DakeruDakeru Member EpicPosts: 3,713
    Ungood said:
    As an Artist, I know I have fallen into the trap of looking at an at program and thinking that it was going to be the answer I was looking for, that is would solve all the weaknesses that the program I was currently using seemed to have, to only discover after using the program that it was not the ultimate solution as I first thought, and ended up going back to some of my older programs to get things done.

    Sometimes, we can walk into something with starry eyes, only to have reality slap us down a bit, and maybe that is what happened here.

    I think we have all been at this place at one time in our lives, especially as gamers, be it buying that have all, end all gaming mouse only for it to piss us off in a week, or that perfect computer chair that ends up making our ass chap and we go back to siting on the sofa.

    Life happens.. its' not the end of the world.. sorta speak.
    Did you just make a comparison of a company who clearly said multiple times that the impossible task they want to achieve will be possible because of one special program to a gamer buying a computer chair and his butt not liking it?

    I'm getting an idea about who you might be.
    Slapshot1188YashaX
    Harbinger of Fools
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