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Soulbound Drops SpatialOS in Favor of Internal Solutions - Chronicles of Elyria News

SBFordSBFord Associate Editor - News ManagerMMORPG.COM Staff LegendaryPosts: 30,088
edited January 12 in News & Features Discussion

imageSoulbound Drops SpatialOS in Favor of Internal Solutions - Chronicles of Elyria News

In a lengthy post on the Chronicles of Elyria site, Jeromy

Read the full story here


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Comments

  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 9,554
    edited January 13
    This was a huge risk from the start. People screamed about how SpatialOS was what would enable them to create such revolutionary features in such a short time at such a low cost.

    This is a massive kick in the nuts as far as I’m concerned.

    Edit to add this description of SpatialOS as "the fabric that our game is built on" from the Kickstarter site.

    This partnership has been in the works for a while now and answers the fundamental question people have been asking "How are you going to build a world this large, with a hundred thousands players, and all these never-before-seen features?!" The answer is SpatialOS. SpatialOS will act as the fabric that our game is built on. It's the server technology that will allow us to support millions of entities in the world. Built first and foremost as a scalable, distributed operating system for games, SpatialOS means we don't have to spend time developing the things that generally take the most time when building a new MMO. We don't have to worry about networking on the server, load balancing all the entities in the world, replication of entities across multiple server nodes, cross-process communication, collision detection of millions of entities, etc. In short, we don't have to worry about developing any of the technology that makes an MMO, an MMO.
    Post edited by Slapshot1188 on
    IselinBombastusSpottyGekkoGaladournDakerukillerqueerTheScavengerWellspringpantaroYashaXand 4 others.

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Starvault's reponse to criticism related to having a handful of players as the official "test" team for a supposed MMO: "We've just have another 10ish folk kind enough to voulenteer added tot the test team" (SIC) This explains much about the state of the game :-)

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

  • EponyxDamorEponyxDamor Member RarePosts: 634
    As someone who isn't familiar with game development, how does testing a voxel client help develop an unreal engine game? Wouldn't you need to spend time ironing out issues in a voxel client to allow features to work in ways that might not necessarily need the same considerations in an unreal engine game? Why not do testing in the same client/engine you actually intend people to play in, basically?
    YashaXLastlaughlolOrangeBoy
  • WellspringWellspring Member RarePosts: 1,111
    Was there anything in the state of the union that says how this is going to impact their schedule? Is the new timeline from Oct 2017 still accurate?

    I haven't had time to read it all. That thing is lengthy.
    --------------------------------------------
  • GeezerGamerGeezerGamer Member EpicPosts: 8,513
    edited January 12
    WTF?
    How does this work? What have they done to this point? They can just drop this as if they decided they were going to have cheerios instead of Corn Flakes?
    Post edited by GeezerGamer on
    Iselinchocolate42069TheScavengerAlomar
  • BombastusBombastus Member UncommonPosts: 9
    The backend for the voxel and Unreal clients is identical. They have already worked out synchronizing live data between UE4 and the voxel client. The voxel client allows them to start testing game features without having to wait for the assets for the UE4 client.

    The major reason for going with SpatialOS was because it was an all-in-one solution. It is not the only solution, and the devs have spent the better part of this year implementing those alternate solutions. This won't affect their timeline at all because the transition is already made.
    MaradaeTorvalmystichazeEponyxDamorYashaXKyleranPingu2012Alomardadazar
  • RhaegysRhaegys Member UncommonPosts: 29


    As someone who isn't familiar with game development, how does testing a voxel client help develop an unreal engine game? Wouldn't you need to spend time ironing out issues in a voxel client to allow features to work in ways that might not necessarily need the same considerations in an unreal engine game? Why not do testing in the same client/engine you actually intend people to play in, basically?



    Here is the thing, you are confusing the Unreal Engine with the Game Engine. Those are to different thing. Unreal Engine is deals with all the client side things, basically with everything that is graphical. Voxel client doesn't help at all in this. What the voxel client does is to help testing the Game Engine (not the unreal engine). The game engine is the one that handles all the game features (skills, crafting, chatting, positioning in the game, etc.) The voxel client is very easy to make as it doesn't have the complexity of a 3d game engine and I think they already using standard assets and it is quickly put up and running. while the unreal engine client needs a lot of work. In this way, Soulbound Studios can start testing the game mechanics before it has a full fledged game client to test it.
    BombastusEponyxDamorGdemamiMaradaeYashaXAzrael_Antaryondadazar
  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 11,690
    edited January 12
    Bombastus said:

    The major reason for going with SpatialOS was because it was an all-in-one solution.
    Well from reading what he wrote as the reasons for eventually ditching it, it sure sounds like "all" was only about half of what they eventually realized they needed.
    Post edited by Iselin on
    Slapshot1188BillMurphy
    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED
  • BombastusBombastus Member UncommonPosts: 9

    Iselin said:


    Bombastus said:



    The major reason for going with SpatialOS was because it was an all-in-one solution.


    Well from reading what he wrote as the reasons for eventually ditching it, it sure sounds like "all" was only about half of what they eventually realized they needed.



    They always knew they would need a solution for non-spatial processes. They just finally had to accept that their spatial solution was going to be too expensive to be viable, so their non-spatial solution had to grow to fit all their needs.
  • TokkenTokken Member RarePosts: 1,825
    I hope this game comes out eventually. It's got potential.
    StaalBurgherAzrael_AntaryondadazarKoriant
    Warriors are like steel, when you lose your temper you lose your worth.
  • GdemamiGdemami Member EpicPosts: 11,045
    edited January 12
    As someone who isn't familiar with game development, how does testing a voxel client help develop an unreal engine game? 
    MMOs are client-server architecture software and the most expensive part of traditional 3D MMOs is the front-end - all the art assets and graphics shiney.

    Where most game content usually consist of world asset, CoE is quite different due being heavily based on game mechanics. Those are processed on back-end and as such front-end,a game client, is mostly irrelevant.

    Thus you can quickly and easily setup voxel front-end to test your game mechanics before you have your art assets built and at hand.
    Post edited by Gdemami on
    mystichazeAzrael_Antaryon
  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 11,690
    Bombastus said:

    Iselin said:


    Bombastus said:



    The major reason for going with SpatialOS was because it was an all-in-one solution.


    Well from reading what he wrote as the reasons for eventually ditching it, it sure sounds like "all" was only about half of what they eventually realized they needed.



    They always knew they would need a solution for non-spatial processes. They just finally had to accept that their spatial solution was going to be too expensive to be viable, so their non-spatial solution had to grow to fit all their needs.
    So it was always a "some in one" not an "all in one" solution then? :) 
    Slapshot1188
    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED
  • EponyxDamorEponyxDamor Member RarePosts: 634
    Rhaegys said:


    As someone who isn't familiar with game development, how does testing a voxel client help develop an unreal engine game? Wouldn't you need to spend time ironing out issues in a voxel client to allow features to work in ways that might not necessarily need the same considerations in an unreal engine game? Why not do testing in the same client/engine you actually intend people to play in, basically?



    Here is the thing, you are confusing the Unreal Engine with the Game Engine. Those are to different thing. Unreal Engine is deals with all the client side things, basically with everything that is graphical. Voxel client doesn't help at all in this. What the voxel client does is to help testing the Game Engine (not the unreal engine). The game engine is the one that handles all the game features (skills, crafting, chatting, positioning in the game, etc.) The voxel client is very easy to make as it doesn't have the complexity of a 3d game engine and I think they already using standard assets and it is quickly put up and running. while the unreal engine client needs a lot of work. In this way, Soulbound Studios can start testing the game mechanics before it has a full fledged game client to test it.
    Thanks for taking the time to reply. I understand the separation of game from graphics now. This "transparent" development process is still new to me, so seeing the process of how games are made is interesting to me. So, its similar to how EQ:N tested features with Landmark?
    mystichazemodus
  • BombastusBombastus Member UncommonPosts: 9

    Iselin said:


    Bombastus said:



    Iselin said:




    Bombastus said:





    The major reason for going with SpatialOS was because it was an all-in-one solution.




    Well from reading what he wrote as the reasons for eventually ditching it, it sure sounds like "all" was only about half of what they eventually realized they needed.






    They always knew they would need a solution for non-spatial processes. They just finally had to accept that their spatial solution was going to be too expensive to be viable, so their non-spatial solution had to grow to fit all their needs.


    So it was always a "some in one" not an "all in one" solution then? :) 



    I am not an expert in SpatialOS, but as I understand it Improbable had hosting, spatial data calculations, and the architecture to scale processing power as needed. Now SbS has moved to different tools for all those jobs. Making tools from different companies talk to one another is a chore, but not impossible.
  • RhaegysRhaegys Member UncommonPosts: 29



    Rhaegys said:





    As someone who isn't familiar with game development, how does testing a voxel client help develop an unreal engine game? Wouldn't you need to spend time ironing out issues in a voxel client to allow features to work in ways that might not necessarily need the same considerations in an unreal engine game? Why not do testing in the same client/engine you actually intend people to play in, basically?






    Here is the thing, you are confusing the Unreal Engine with the Game Engine. Those are to different thing. Unreal Engine is deals with all the client side things, basically with everything that is graphical. Voxel client doesn't help at all in this. What the voxel client does is to help testing the Game Engine (not the unreal engine). The game engine is the one that handles all the game features (skills, crafting, chatting, positioning in the game, etc.) The voxel client is very easy to make as it doesn't have the complexity of a 3d game engine and I think they already using standard assets and it is quickly put up and running. while the unreal engine client needs a lot of work. In this way, Soulbound Studios can start testing the game mechanics before it has a full fledged game client to test it.


    Thanks for taking the time to reply. I understand the separation of game from graphics now. This "transparent" development process is still new to me, so seeing the process of how games are made is interesting to me. So, its similar to how EQ:N tested features with Landmark?



    To be honest I'm not familiar with EQ:N and Landmark to give you a definite answer.
    Maradaesarielis
  • SpottyGekkoSpottyGekko Member EpicPosts: 6,734
    Uh, yeah...

    Wasn't SpatialOS going to be the "magic bullet" that would enable the game to manage the 100K characters that will be permanently active on the server, by enabling dynamic load-distribution across the cloud ?

    I guess Soulbound will just quickly develop their own version of SpatialOS, I mean, how difficult can it really be, amirite ? :wink:
    WellspringSlapshot1188NildenDakeruTheScavengerpantaroYashaX[Deleted User]Pingu2012Alomar
  • WellspringWellspring Member RarePosts: 1,111



    Rhaegys said:





    As someone who isn't familiar with game development, how does testing a voxel client help develop an unreal engine game? Wouldn't you need to spend time ironing out issues in a voxel client to allow features to work in ways that might not necessarily need the same considerations in an unreal engine game? Why not do testing in the same client/engine you actually intend people to play in, basically?






    Here is the thing, you are confusing the Unreal Engine with the Game Engine. Those are to different thing. Unreal Engine is deals with all the client side things, basically with everything that is graphical. Voxel client doesn't help at all in this. What the voxel client does is to help testing the Game Engine (not the unreal engine). The game engine is the one that handles all the game features (skills, crafting, chatting, positioning in the game, etc.) The voxel client is very easy to make as it doesn't have the complexity of a 3d game engine and I think they already using standard assets and it is quickly put up and running. while the unreal engine client needs a lot of work. In this way, Soulbound Studios can start testing the game mechanics before it has a full fledged game client to test it.


    Thanks for taking the time to reply. I understand the separation of game from graphics now. This "transparent" development process is still new to me, so seeing the process of how games are made is interesting to me. So, its similar to how EQ:N tested features with Landmark?



    EQ Landmark still used the same graphic engine intended for EQ:N.

    I think the CoE voxel client is more in line with if the studio working on DayZ (https://www.bohemia.net/games/dayz) used Mini DayZ (https://minidayz.com/) to test things on.
    EponyxDamor
    --------------------------------------------
  • EponyxDamorEponyxDamor Member RarePosts: 634



    Rhaegys said:





    As someone who isn't familiar with game development, how does testing a voxel client help develop an unreal engine game? Wouldn't you need to spend time ironing out issues in a voxel client to allow features to work in ways that might not necessarily need the same considerations in an unreal engine game? Why not do testing in the same client/engine you actually intend people to play in, basically?






    Here is the thing, you are confusing the Unreal Engine with the Game Engine. Those are to different thing. Unreal Engine is deals with all the client side things, basically with everything that is graphical. Voxel client doesn't help at all in this. What the voxel client does is to help testing the Game Engine (not the unreal engine). The game engine is the one that handles all the game features (skills, crafting, chatting, positioning in the game, etc.) The voxel client is very easy to make as it doesn't have the complexity of a 3d game engine and I think they already using standard assets and it is quickly put up and running. while the unreal engine client needs a lot of work. In this way, Soulbound Studios can start testing the game mechanics before it has a full fledged game client to test it.


    Thanks for taking the time to reply. I understand the separation of game from graphics now. This "transparent" development process is still new to me, so seeing the process of how games are made is interesting to me. So, its similar to how EQ:N tested features with Landmark?



    EQ Landmark still used the same graphic engine intended for EQ:N.

    I think the CoE voxel client is more in line with if the studio working on DayZ (https://www.bohemia.net/games/dayz) used Mini DayZ (https://minidayz.com/) to test things on.
    Very neat! Thank you for the information.
  • BombastusBombastus Member UncommonPosts: 9


    Uh, yeah...

    Wasn't SpatialOS going to be the "magic bullet" that would enable the game to manage the 100K characters that will be permanently active on the server, by enabling dynamic load-distribution across the cloud ?

    I guess Soulbound will just quickly develop their own version of SpatialOS, I mean, how difficult can it really be, amirite ? :wink:



    They already have implemented their solution. We are just hearing about it now.
    mystichazeKyleran
  • SpottyGekkoSpottyGekko Member EpicPosts: 6,734

    Bombastus said:





    Uh, yeah...

    Wasn't SpatialOS going to be the "magic bullet" that would enable the game to manage the 100K characters that will be permanently active on the server, by enabling dynamic load-distribution across the cloud ?

    I guess Soulbound will just quickly develop their own version of SpatialOS, I mean, how difficult can it really be, amirite ? :wink:






    They already have implemented their solution. We are just hearing about it now.



    "Citing concerns about "the financial viability" of continuing to use SpatialOS..."

    There's the REAL reason...
    Slapshot1188pantaro
  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 9,554

    Bombastus said:





    Uh, yeah...

    Wasn't SpatialOS going to be the "magic bullet" that would enable the game to manage the 100K characters that will be permanently active on the server, by enabling dynamic load-distribution across the cloud ?

    I guess Soulbound will just quickly develop their own version of SpatialOS, I mean, how difficult can it really be, amirite ? :wink:






    They already have implemented their solution. We are just hearing about it now.



    "Citing concerns about "the financial viability" of continuing to use SpatialOS..."

    There's the REAL reason...
    But remember... they don’t need no stinking publishers... right? Building Elyria on one $10 buy a vote token at a time!

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Starvault's reponse to criticism related to having a handful of players as the official "test" team for a supposed MMO: "We've just have another 10ish folk kind enough to voulenteer added tot the test team" (SIC) This explains much about the state of the game :-)

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

  • NildenNilden Member EpicPosts: 2,668
    Uh, yeah...

    Wasn't SpatialOS going to be the "magic bullet" that would enable the game to manage the 100K characters that will be permanently active on the server, by enabling dynamic load-distribution across the cloud ?

    I guess Soulbound will just quickly develop their own version of SpatialOS, I mean, how difficult can it really be, amirite ? :wink:


    Oh yeah, that's all it did...

    Slapshot1188

    "You CAN'T buy ships for RL money." - MaxBacon

    "classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon

    Love Minecraft. And check out my Youtube channel OhCanadaGamer



  • GaladournGaladourn Member RarePosts: 1,581
    the server back-end solution is the make or break of all MMOs that want to implement "revolutionary features". Not surprisingly, to my knowledge, no company has yet succeeded in surpassing the obstacles posed by server-related issues. In most cases, this has led to either the game never launching, or launching with a more "traditional" server back-end solution resulting in massive reduction of "revolutionary" features. Time will tell how this one plays out but things aren't very promising tbf...
    Slapshot1188GdemamiTheScavengerpantaro

  • DakeruDakeru Member EpicPosts: 3,586
    Bombastus said:


    Uh, yeah...

    Wasn't SpatialOS going to be the "magic bullet" that would enable the game to manage the 100K characters that will be permanently active on the server, by enabling dynamic load-distribution across the cloud ?

    I guess Soulbound will just quickly develop their own version of SpatialOS, I mean, how difficult can it really be, amirite ? :wink:



    They already have implemented their solution. We are just hearing about it now.
    Yeah the whole time they said spatialos is what makes the impossible possible.

    Now you claim they came up with a housemade alternative that works better and they quickly created it in between development - EZ
    TheScavengerGaladournYashaXKyleranPingu2012[Deleted User]
    Harbinger of Fools
  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 9,554
    Dakeru said:
    Bombastus said:


    Uh, yeah...

    Wasn't SpatialOS going to be the "magic bullet" that would enable the game to manage the 100K characters that will be permanently active on the server, by enabling dynamic load-distribution across the cloud ?

    I guess Soulbound will just quickly develop their own version of SpatialOS, I mean, how difficult can it really be, amirite ? :wink:



    They already have implemented their solution. We are just hearing about it now.
    Yeah the whole time they said spatialos is what makes the impossible possible.

    Now you claim they came up with a housemade alternative that works better and they quickly created it in between development - EZ
    Since SpatialOS just got a half billion dollar investment...

    To believe this you would have to believe that this development team (with nerf swords) was able to replace all that in just a few months with just a few people...

    If you believe that...maybe he should put the game on hold and market his homemade version of SpatialOS instead.

    Again-  Reality seems to be a foreign concept when you are Roleplaying a Development team.



    TheScavengerGaladournNildenpantaroKyleranPingu2012[Deleted User]

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Starvault's reponse to criticism related to having a handful of players as the official "test" team for a supposed MMO: "We've just have another 10ish folk kind enough to voulenteer added tot the test team" (SIC) This explains much about the state of the game :-)

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

  • GeezerGamerGeezerGamer Member EpicPosts: 8,513
    edited January 12
    Remember when EQ:N ditched Storyboards? Or when Repop ditched Hero?
    How'd that work out?

    To me, this is a HUGE red flag.
    Post edited by GeezerGamer on
    NildenWellspringGaladournSlapshot1188pantaroKyleran[Deleted User]
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