In retrospect, I think that what I would have preferred to see, from a business model would be SQ42 first and then build SC off of that. Building something like Star Citizen is a significant effort, and we're seeing that. It's one of the primary reasons that Star Citizen remains so contentious. However, if you build your single-player game first and roll the profits from that into something larger (like Star Citizen) then people get something in their hands more quickly and it inspires more confidence.
Star Citizen is an anomaly and it's not likely that you'll see it reproduced. I read yesterday that in 2017, Star Citizen raised DOUBLE the money of all 700 Kickstarter game projects of 2017. That's retarded! So, from an expectations perspective, I cannot see it NOT being built. Also, I actually care very little about what that timeline looks like because I try my best not to test games anymore. My expectation is that the game will be done when it's perfect in the eyes of CR or funding is less than payroll. That being said, the release of Alpha 3 at least gives people who need to see something that tangible validation that something is happening.
That is how I view it. But now as the thing transpires more, we can notice that they are trying to push SQ42 to the level SC also has to be, so in some aspects say finishing up combat mechanics, AI, graphics and so is all stuff that both games need.
In one way the degree of completion of SC (mechanic/tech-wise) is also the degree of completion of SQ42, say things like the graphics, if they decide to upgrade the render to DX12/Vulkan obviously they want SQ42 to also face that overhaul, what is not a wrong decision I think but it's constantly pushing it back so they have that stuff in.
Elite's a game I got a fair bit of fun out of, obvious and myriad flaws aside, and go back to periodically. SC is a game I long ago gave up on and, if not for certain porcine lagomorphs inexpertly trying to keep hope alive on this forum, probably would have long ago forgotten about.
At this point I really only see two options:
1) The Graceful Crater: The Crytek lawsuit, or something similar as I doubt Crytek is the only issue waiting in the wings, gives Robert's and company a graceful exit. They post a letter saying "Sorry you guys, we tried, we really did, we had our game almost ready to launch and it would have been The Greatest Thing Evah(tm), but those evil sods at Company X manipulated the evil legal system to evilly destroy our The Greatest Thing Evah(tm). Blame them, not us!". Chris and Co exit stage left to the Bahamas, the White Knights and Haters urinate on each other for a bit whilst everyone else shrugs and moves on.
2) Redefining Minimum Viable Product: Things go on pretty much as they are. Chris and Co make promises they never quite seem to remotely come close keeping, new JPEGs are produced at an astounding rate (well, astounding compared to the rate of game development, anyway), the river of green continues, and all is well with the world. As time goes on prolactin levels are inevitably going to drop, whales will be harder and harder to milk, and those Bahamian beaches are a'callin', dontchaknow. Something akin to a game -- a game's distant relative, if you will -- gets released. It probably won't be much different from what's available now, maybe an extra half-arsed mode or three Frankenstein-ed in here and there, and that's it, game released -- Huzzah! It'll be just enough for porcine lagomorphs to be able to say they "Had Fun" -- then again, let's be honest, a design document with Chris' signature on it is gaming nirvana, to hear some talk -- and it'll provide endless fodder for haters to claim they were right (they mostly were, but why some of them cared so much will remain a mystery), and most of the rest of the word will shrug and move on.
You see in the end I don't really think SC matters much anymore. The White Knights, especially those of a porcine lagomorph variety, will, for various reasons -- financial gain, sunk cost fallacy, Stockholm Syndrome, whatever -- defend Roberts and Co no matter what. The Haters will continue their Sisyphean battle for whatever their reasons.
The rest of the world just doesn't give a crap. SC, if it ever had any relevance to the greater gaming world, that relevance has long since passed. Yeah, I know "Biggest crowdfunding haul in history". Who cares? Crowdfunding and gaming has long since hit the point of tainted goods. Mighty Number 9, Godus, and a host of other crash-and-burn experiences have done the job sufficiently that even if SC crashes spectacularly it'll just be a particularly large crater in a field full of craters. And if it does well, if it manages to be the gaming nerdvana its fans keep promises is right around the next point release? I doubt it'll much matter. Even if it does back every promise, I don't see how it'll be able to move much past the audience it has already captured and mostly milked.
...Which, from a business perspective, is a bit of a problem either way.
I expect SQ42 to come out 4Q 2019 at about 85% of what is currently planned. I expect the PU to drag on in alpha/beta-land for about another year after that then be not so quietly shuttered because what they want to achieve cannot be done in the piecemeal way they are designing it.
Bartoni's Law definition: As an Internet discussion grows volatile, the probability of a comparison involving Donald Trump approaches 1.
In retrospect, I think that what I would have preferred to see, from a business model would be SQ42 first and then build SC off of that. Building something like Star Citizen is a significant effort, and we're seeing that. It's one of the primary reasons that Star Citizen remains so contentious. However, if you build your single-player game first and roll the profits from that into something larger (like Star Citizen) then people get something in their hands more quickly and it inspires more confidence.
Star Citizen is an anomaly and it's not likely that you'll see it reproduced. I read yesterday that in 2017, Star Citizen raised DOUBLE the money of all 700 Kickstarter game projects of 2017. That's retarded! So, from an expectations perspective, I cannot see it NOT being built. Also, I actually care very little about what that timeline looks like because I try my best not to test games anymore. My expectation is that the game will be done when it's perfect in the eyes of CR or funding is less than payroll. That being said, the release of Alpha 3 at least gives people who need to see something that tangible validation that something is happening.
That is how I view it. But now as the thing transpires more, we can notice that they are trying to push SQ42 to the level SC also has to be, so in some aspects say finishing up combat mechanics, AI, graphics and so is all stuff that both games need.
In one way the degree of completion of SC (mechanic/tech-wise) is also the degree of completion of SQ42, say things like the graphics, if they decide to upgrade the render to DX12/Vulkan obviously they want SQ42 to also face that overhaul, what is not a wrong decision I think but it's constantly pushing it back so they have that stuff in.
I agree. Also, I think that if they DIDN'T have the money they do and continue to have, they would have to adapt to a different strategy. For now, though, they can do everything at once. It'll be cool in the end for those willing to wait.
If you form expectations around something you do not have control over is that a good idea?
We live our whole life forming expectations on things we're unable to control. We can't even walk out of the door without glancing at the sky and forming and expectation on weather.
It's neither good nor bad idea, it's a part of us that can't be removed.
If you form expectations around something you do not have control over is that a good idea?
How many things in life do you really have control over?
Also, do you live your life with zero expectations of what will happen?
What if you have low expectations that are exceeded? Was it a bad idea to have those low expectations? Or was it a good idea?
and that is why its foolish frankly to invest into expectations. and no worries 'expectations' is not a positive emotion anyway so it will not negatively impact your quality of life. If your too invested in the future, it means something is wrong about your now
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
I agree. Also, I think that if they DIDN'T have the money they do and continue to have, they would have to adapt to a different strategy. For now, though, they can do everything at once. It'll be cool in the end for those willing to wait.
Yes if there was one forced restriction they would have to warp it up the way they could instead of taking the time, that's up to what they can afford.
There is obviously a public pressure on the matter and that is the big downside of that strategy they have to keep balancing it out, I guess they are doing so by exposing SC and keep updating it and keep the attention there.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
You see in the end I don't really think SC matters much anymore.
** snip **
The continued presence of Star Citizen in the press - international general press and gaming press alike - seems to disagree with your statement. A few thousand articles and a number of millions of hits (on YouTube alone) suggest that SC does matter to a lot of people for one reason or another, in a positive/neutral/negative way.
But HEY, i am just a lagomorph ... what do I know ? .....
Have fun
PS:
Fun fact ...
not every game does make it into the largest national newspaper.
Star Citizen is often mentioned in the biggest german newspaper "BILD" (1.9 million copies sold daily) and also mentioned in the biggest Austrian newspaper "Kronen Zeitung" (770.000 copies sold daily). If you consider that Germany has a population 10 times larger than Austria, the Austrian newspaper reaches up to 10 % (!) of the total population. Those are numbers that US newspapers can only dream of. The largest US newspapers (2.4 million copies sold) only reach 0.7 % of the population.
I expect nothing, that way its not a let down when those expectations are not met.....I already feel im 2 years behind the curve and the game is only in pre alpha.
Does anyone really believe they still have a lot of that 175+ million left? With all the companies, employees, remodeling, lawsuits, majority should be gone.
One day I hope they pass laws to where crowdfunding has to openly have a running financial count where all the cash is going. It also needs to be run by an independent third party. Wages or bonuses should also be part of the transparency!
Love the idea of crowdfunding, yet as long as money corrupts certain people then we need open transparency!
“The reason I talk to myself is because I’m the only one whose answers I accept.”
―
George Carlin
If you form expectations around something you do not have control over is that a good idea?
Other than we base our entire lives on expectations of which we have no control of?
For example, I expect that the US will not get involved in a nuclear war with North Korea.
Perhaps you mean its not a good idea to get one's hopes up over something they can't control?
no actually we do not.
we base it on predictions, not expectations. expectations is a word that implies if it doesnt happen then someone is directly accountable for the 'prediction' to not work out. expectation and prediction are very different
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
If you form expectations around something you do not have control over is that a good idea?
Other than we base our entire lives on expectations of which we have no control of?
For example, I expect that the US will not get involved in a nuclear war with North Korea.
Perhaps you mean its not a good idea to get one's hopes up over something they can't control?
no actually we do not.
we base it on predictions, not expectations. expectations is a word that implies if it doesnt happen then someone is directly accountable for the 'prediction' to not work out. expectation and prediction are very different
In the context Kyleran was talking about, expectation is your personal belief what will (or won't) happen, whereas prediction would be scientific or religious data. People don't act on a prediction unless they also personally believe that it will or it might happen - they won't act unless they expect it.
If you form expectations around something you do not have control over is that a good idea?
Other than we base our entire lives on expectations of which we have no control of?
For example, I expect that the US will not get involved in a nuclear war with North Korea.
Perhaps you mean its not a good idea to get one's hopes up over something they can't control?
no actually we do not.
we base it on predictions, not expectations. expectations is a word that implies if it doesnt happen then someone is directly accountable for the 'prediction' to not work out. expectation and prediction are very different
In the context Kyleran was talking about, expectation is your personal belief what will (or won't) happen, whereas prediction would be scientific or religious data. People don't act on a prediction unless they also personally believe that it will or it might happen - they won't act unless they expect it.
no you dont.
you base them on prediction. you predict that your drive home will be successful, you dont 'expect' them to other than using the word 'expect' in the same way you mean 'predict'.
'expectations' is a trap. it sets you up to think you DESERVE an outcome, that is not a positive way to look at it nor is it realistic. its better to approach it with predictive analysis, not expectations.
trust me, quality of life is better when you look at it that way. you become disapointed far less. but dont listen to me on the better way to live...nobody ever does
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
most people who use the word 'expect' use it in this context:
'a belief that someone will or should achieve something.'
even when they dont the cultural use of the word tends to make a person think of it that way, as it 'should' and if something doesnt operate as it 'should' then retribution needs to happen. This is why the phrase 'no expectations' comes into play.
which is why predicting is always better than expecting.
if your boss says 'I expect you to do this' its a very different meaning from 'I predict you to do this'
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Comments
In one way the degree of completion of SC (mechanic/tech-wise) is also the degree of completion of SQ42, say things like the graphics, if they decide to upgrade the render to DX12/Vulkan obviously they want SQ42 to also face that overhaul, what is not a wrong decision I think but it's constantly pushing it back so they have that stuff in.
Elite's a game I got a fair bit of fun out of, obvious and myriad flaws aside, and go back to periodically. SC is a game I long ago gave up on and, if not for certain porcine lagomorphs inexpertly trying to keep hope alive on this forum, probably would have long ago forgotten about.
At this point I really only see two options:
1) The Graceful Crater: The Crytek lawsuit, or something similar as I doubt Crytek is the only issue waiting in the wings, gives Robert's and company a graceful exit. They post a letter saying "Sorry you guys, we tried, we really did, we had our game almost ready to launch and it would have been The Greatest Thing Evah(tm), but those evil sods at Company X manipulated the evil legal system to evilly destroy our The Greatest Thing Evah(tm). Blame them, not us!". Chris and Co exit stage left to the Bahamas, the White Knights and Haters urinate on each other for a bit whilst everyone else shrugs and moves on.
2) Redefining Minimum Viable Product: Things go on pretty much as they are. Chris and Co make promises they never quite seem to remotely come close keeping, new JPEGs are produced at an astounding rate (well, astounding compared to the rate of game development, anyway), the river of green continues, and all is well with the world. As time goes on prolactin levels are inevitably going to drop, whales will be harder and harder to milk, and those Bahamian beaches are a'callin', dontchaknow. Something akin to a game -- a game's distant relative, if you will -- gets released. It probably won't be much different from what's available now, maybe an extra half-arsed mode or three Frankenstein-ed in here and there, and that's it, game released -- Huzzah! It'll be just enough for porcine lagomorphs to be able to say they "Had Fun" -- then again, let's be honest, a design document with Chris' signature on it is gaming nirvana, to hear some talk -- and it'll provide endless fodder for haters to claim they were right (they mostly were, but why some of them cared so much will remain a mystery), and most of the rest of the word will shrug and move on.
You see in the end I don't really think SC matters much anymore. The White Knights, especially those of a porcine lagomorph variety, will, for various reasons -- financial gain, sunk cost fallacy, Stockholm Syndrome, whatever -- defend Roberts and Co no matter what. The Haters will continue their Sisyphean battle for whatever their reasons.
The rest of the world just doesn't give a crap. SC, if it ever had any relevance to the greater gaming world, that relevance has long since passed. Yeah, I know "Biggest crowdfunding haul in history". Who cares? Crowdfunding and gaming has long since hit the point of tainted goods. Mighty Number 9, Godus, and a host of other crash-and-burn experiences have done the job sufficiently that even if SC crashes spectacularly it'll just be a particularly large crater in a field full of craters. And if it does well, if it manages to be the gaming nerdvana its fans keep promises is right around the next point release? I doubt it'll much matter. Even if it does back every promise, I don't see how it'll be able to move much past the audience it has already captured and mostly milked.
...Which, from a business perspective, is a bit of a problem either way.
Bartoni's Law definition: As an Internet discussion grows volatile, the probability of a comparison involving Donald Trump approaches 1.
Also, do you live your life with zero expectations of what will happen?
What if you have low expectations that are exceeded? Was it a bad idea to have those low expectations? Or was it a good idea?
Bartoni's Law definition: As an Internet discussion grows volatile, the probability of a comparison involving Donald Trump approaches 1.
Bartoni's Law definition: As an Internet discussion grows volatile, the probability of a comparison involving Donald Trump approaches 1.
I agree. Also, I think that if they DIDN'T have the money they do and continue to have, they would have to adapt to a different strategy. For now, though, they can do everything at once. It'll be cool in the end for those willing to wait.
Crazkanuk
----------------
Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
----------------
It's neither good nor bad idea, it's a part of us that can't be removed.
and no worries 'expectations' is not a positive emotion anyway so it will not negatively impact your quality of life.
If your too invested in the future, it means something is wrong about your now
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
There is obviously a public pressure on the matter and that is the big downside of that strategy they have to keep balancing it out, I guess they are doing so by exposing SC and keep updating it and keep the attention there.
For example, I expect that the US will not get involved in a nuclear war with North Korea.
Perhaps you mean its not a good idea to get one's hopes up over something they can't control?
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
But HEY, i am just a lagomorph ... what do I know ? .....
Have fun
PS:
Fun fact ...
not every game does make it into the largest national newspaper.
Star Citizen is often mentioned in the biggest german newspaper "BILD" (1.9 million copies sold daily) and also mentioned in the biggest Austrian newspaper "Kronen Zeitung" (770.000 copies sold daily). If you consider that Germany has a population 10 times larger than Austria, the Austrian newspaper reaches up to 10 % (!) of the total population. Those are numbers that US newspapers can only dream of. The largest US newspapers (2.4 million copies sold) only reach
0.7 % of the population.
One day I hope they pass laws to where crowdfunding has to openly have a running financial count where all the cash is going. It also needs to be run by an independent third party. Wages or bonuses should also be part of the transparency!
Love the idea of crowdfunding, yet as long as money corrupts certain people then we need open transparency!
― George Carlin
we base it on predictions, not expectations.
expectations is a word that implies if it doesnt happen then someone is directly accountable for the 'prediction' to not work out.
expectation and prediction are very different
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
No, we base them on expectations.
In the context Kyleran was talking about, expectation is your personal belief what will (or won't) happen, whereas prediction would be scientific or religious data. People don't act on a prediction unless they also personally believe that it will or it might happen - they won't act unless they expect it.
you base them on prediction.
you predict that your drive home will be successful, you dont 'expect' them to other than using the word 'expect' in the same way you mean 'predict'.
'expectations' is a trap. it sets you up to think you DESERVE an outcome, that is not a positive way to look at it nor is it realistic. its better to approach it with predictive analysis, not expectations.
trust me, quality of life is better when you look at it that way. you become disapointed far less.
but dont listen to me on the better way to live...nobody ever does
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
'a belief that someone will or should achieve something.'
even when they dont the cultural use of the word tends to make a person think of it that way, as it 'should' and if something doesnt operate as it 'should' then retribution needs to happen. This is why the phrase 'no expectations' comes into play.
which is why predicting is always better than expecting.
if your boss says 'I expect you to do this' its a very different meaning from 'I predict you to do this'
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me