Out of the multitude of games currently released in this RNG gaming culture I think ESO does it better than most others.
I'm no longer a subscriber to ESO, but these type of events do tempt me to resubscribe for a month although I usually do so when these type of events include everyone.
I won't resubscribe though probably since I only log in almost daily to upgrade my mount skills currently.
ESO slowly loss my interest during the Champion Points grinding. I made it till 173 CPs or close, but really enjoyed the game while leveling.
Whereas the whole RNG should be supplemental to a game, imo, nowadays games are being designed around the RNG gambling tool.
Whats so sad is that this doesn't seem to bother today's mmo player. Just the way it is now.
Just a matter of taste. I'm not judging. But to be inspired by mmo games to gamble, appealing at lowest human instincts, is sickening for me. Games used to be made by gamers and now they are made by vegas like mafia crew. I'm not playing this, period.
They are probably still made by gamers (who knows, maybe they hire the best network guy but he was never into video games/not every developer is into video games) but companies need/want more money.
I have a feeling if they raised box prices to $90 or some such thing there would be a huge outcry. Or maybe 30 dollar sub?
In the end, they need to make "x" amount of dollars, whether players agree with it or not, and they are going to do it the best way they know how.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
So you people want to complain about cosmetic items now ? Get a grip, you only have a right to complain if the loot box gives any advantage to the player, which they do not in ESO... so therefore you have nothing to complain about. Just another hive mind human who sees loot box and automatically assumes it's pay to win? Or just completely ignorant?
Here's the type of gamer that has enabled the situation were all in now.
I have no problem paying for a monthly sub and I still do, although I feel that the sub cost should include ALL developed content. The pay store is here to stay since the game went B2P. As long as it doesn't offer P2W items I usually ignore it. But I draw the fucking line with gamble boxes! If I want a cosmetic item bad enough I will spend the extra money and buy it, knowing exactly what the extra cost is. DO NOT nickel and dime me to death with a 0.0001% chance to win the item I'm after!
So you people want to complain about cosmetic items now ? Get a grip, you only have a right to complain if the loot box gives any advantage to the player, which they do not in ESO... so therefore you have nothing to complain about. Just another hive mind human who sees loot box and automatically assumes it's pay to win? Or just completely ignorant?
Here's the type of gamer that has enabled the situation were all in now.
I have no problem paying for a monthly sub and I still do, although I feel that the sub cost should include ALL developed content. The pay store is here to stay since the game went B2P. As long as it doesn't offer P2W items I usually ignore it. But I draw the fucking line with gamble boxes! If I want a cosmetic item bad enough I will spend the extra money and buy it, knowing exactly what the extra cost is. DO NOT nickel and dime me to death with a 0.0001% chance to win the item I'm after!
So buy the item?
As far as I can see, the lootboxes include items that are available i the store. Or is that going to change?
If, for argument's sake, the only way to get a cosmetic item (or "whatever") was through the lootboxes you would then have a point.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
Whats so sad is that this doesn't seem to bother today's mmo player. Just the way it is now.
Since we've been dealing with RNG paywalls, renting our games, and paying for progression for about 20 years now, this surprises you why?
ZOS is a master of multipronged monetization. If you play the game seriously, you need to sub (some features are locked) and buy the chapters. If you actually want to own any of the DLC you'll need to buy more Crowns or sub for a long time to unlock the rest of the game.
It can be one of the cheapest MMOs you play or it can get expensive quick. At least they give options. And since this is one of the best modern MMOs on the market then it makes sense that people just ignore what they don't like to gain access to what they do. I don't find that surprising at all.
Renting the games isn't a video game problem, but a software one. It's what happens to consumers when governments are too scared to set up a proper framework or misguided consumers insist that the "wild west" should be allowed to fester.
I'm sure you wanted to make a point, but you forgot to include it somewhere on the soapbox. That would make a good blog or youtube channel title, "Somewhere on the Soapbox". You should start it and post angry outlandish rants and make gazillions off of advert clicks.
Lol, I'm sure it would, but compensation for my opinion has never been something I've wanted to pursue.
But ironic to hear you respond as such from atop that soapbox your originally quoted post was made from.
Yes, but I made a point. Nothing wrong with your soapboxing but it got in the way of laying it down. If it's so all over the place in a single sentence I can't deconstruct and answer it then the point is lost.
How is renting a software problem? How is that problem relevant to my point that the way we've been paying for games over the years, with progression parsed out and sold to us piecemeal, unsurprising. This environment shouldn't surprise anyone because we gamers helped to drive it there.
"governments are too scared to set up a framework for misguided consumers"? That was a stupid Facebook comment to post. It's empty, facile, and says nothing real. It's an angry rabble "burn the witch" kind of thing to say. There is no point to that statement other than to throw hostility and point fingers. It's unworthy of a response, but you are, so I'll explain why there's no discussion around it.
I may think that was stupid, but there are millions of gamers that eat that shit up on YouTube (blogs are passe). Start a channel, enable adclicks, rant away, and collect money. Get gud, and then get sponsers and make big money. If ding dongs like Lazy Peon and the like can do it, then you certainly can. I think that was a pretty good response and It was a productive suggestion.
Insightful. My point was largely that the idea that we're renting video games is a conditioning of the entirety of virtual goods in general. We've had that debate in other places (including reference regulation), which is why I commented to respond to your point.
The idea that we're okay with renting games is not really that we're "okay" with it- there's not really ever been another option to consumers. Hell, a significant portion likely don't even realize they don't technically "own" the software, because all that is written in legalese and buried in a document the size of an end of semester essay project.
The idea that consumers have the time to delve into each individual "essay" for all their software is, quite frankly, unrealistic in the extreme. That's where my sarcastic remark about the regulations and government involvement came in. The US government is de facto allowing the software companies free reign to bury consumer-exploiting clauses into things like EULA and TOS because they're too afraid of pissing off a lobby group or being the victim of a political opponent twisting the position to hurt their career (because God knows Americans, by and large, know only what the party and the associated news agencies tell them is true). That's no excuse for the government- it's an indictment that they should've been more proactive in monitoring the growth and evolution of consumer software available to their citizens to ensure any purchase or transaction is just as fair and equitable in the virtual realm as it is in the physical. They didn't, and we don't own a single thing on our PCs (save for, say, photos we took and uploaded to the PC) anymore: we simply bought the rights to use it until the software company deems us unfit to continue using it or, in many cases, they simply want us to use their newer product.
However, I couldn't be arsed to type all that out because I was at the gym. So I left a sarcastic comment knowing you wouldn't disappoint and would respond with something interesting to debate and discuss.
The rest of your point about ESO's monetization I don't largely disagree with. ESO is just a player in a system that was never created to be equitable in the first place.
EDIT- to make the relevance to your original point clearer:
The way gamers pay for games, "renting" them, is not very different from the way software in general works. Consumers never got together and said "hey, this is how we choose to enjoy purchasing software," because that would require someone actually taking up the issue with an authority party that can create such a system (government). That's never happened, so why single out gamers as if we specifically asked for loot box monetization? We didn't even ask for the base monetization system of software, because no one has ever been very interested in taking g up the consumer advocate position in the virtual realm until very recently. And, you, among others, have pushed back against even these recent attempts, trying to use the logic of "you were cool with getting slightly screwed before, so why do you care if you're being royally screwed now?"
No, nobody is cool with getting screwed. They just know the limitations of an amalgamation of easily influenced, disparate strangers trying to influence the decisions of large, monolithic corporations without the help of the one entity that was formed specifically to give voice to us for these very kinds of situations.
So you people want to complain about cosmetic items now ? Get a grip, you only have a right to complain if the loot box gives any advantage to the player, which they do not in ESO... so therefore you have nothing to complain about. Just another hive mind human who sees loot box and automatically assumes it's pay to win? Or just completely ignorant?
Here's the type of gamer that has enabled the situation were all in now.
I have no problem paying for a monthly sub and I still do, although I feel that the sub cost should include ALL developed content. The pay store is here to stay since the game went B2P. As long as it doesn't offer P2W items I usually ignore it. But I draw the fucking line with gamble boxes! If I want a cosmetic item bad enough I will spend the extra money and buy it, knowing exactly what the extra cost is. DO NOT nickel and dime me to death with a 0.0001% chance to win the item I'm after!
So buy the item?
As far as I can see, the lootboxes include items that are available i the store. Or is that going to change?
If, for argument's sake, the only way to get a cosmetic item (or "whatever") was through the lootboxes you would then have a point.
No they don't and they never have. Only the lower tier junk has counterparts available in the regular cash shop.
The middle tier stuff can only be had with a new currency they added with the crates, "crown gems" that you get by getting repeat collectible items from the crates that you then trade back in or trading back in some of the junk you don't want.
But the highest tier loot box items, "Apex Plus" which are mostly mounts, can not be bought with either crowns from the normal cash shop nor with the crown gem currency. Those are loot box only exclusives.
He does have a point.
Edit: In case you're interested here's a wiki page that provides the details on all items available for each crown crate "season."
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
No, nobody is cool with getting screwed. They just know the limitations of an amalgamation of easily influenced, disparate strangers trying to influence the decisions of large, monolithic corporations without the help of the one entity that was formed specifically to give voice to us for these very kinds of situations.
FYI... your original, shorthand version got the point across just fine. Although I have to say, "well done" with the longer version. Especially this part that bears repeating:
"...entity that was formed specifically to give voice to us..."
That is the plain purpose of all level of governments and is expressed by their laws and regulations. It's why I cringe whenever I see people railing against "big government" or regulations. They're just swallowing and then repeating the doublespeak PR lines from those whose interest and profits depend on small government and less regulations namely, the corporations.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
So you people want to complain about cosmetic items now ? Get a grip, you only have a right to complain if the loot box gives any advantage to the player, which they do not in ESO... so therefore you have nothing to complain about. Just another hive mind human who sees loot box and automatically assumes it's pay to win? Or just completely ignorant?
Here's the type of gamer that has enabled the situation were all in now.
I have no problem paying for a monthly sub and I still do, although I feel that the sub cost should include ALL developed content. The pay store is here to stay since the game went B2P. As long as it doesn't offer P2W items I usually ignore it. But I draw the fucking line with gamble boxes! If I want a cosmetic item bad enough I will spend the extra money and buy it, knowing exactly what the extra cost is. DO NOT nickel and dime me to death with a 0.0001% chance to win the item I'm after!
I agree about 99%. I can just ignore it though typically. if you have to buy the boxes and there are items that are only in that box then, yeah, I am not a fan.
Crates offer no pay-to-win items...there are no pay-to-win items in the crown store - it's all cosmetic stuff. Consumables you win in the crown crates can all be made in game.
Its not pay to win. But mounts and cosmetic gear should also be available in-game, imo. Its a bummer.
Crates offer no pay-to-win items...there are no pay-to-win items in the crown store - it's all cosmetic stuff. Consumables you win in the crown crates can all be made in game.
Its not pay to win. But mounts and cosmetic gear should also be available in-game, imo. Its a bummer.
I don't disagree but just FYI in the new update coming in February one of the new leveling advisor perks is that you get a free mount at level 17 (I think that's the level.) It's the one that can now be bought with gold in the game for 10K.
Should have been a thing right from launch but once again, better late than never.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
So you people want to complain about cosmetic items now ? Get a grip, you only have a right to complain if the loot box gives any advantage to the player, which they do not in ESO... so therefore you have nothing to complain about. Just another hive mind human who sees loot box and automatically assumes it's pay to win? Or just completely ignorant?
Here's the type of gamer that has enabled the situation were all in now.
I have no problem paying for a monthly sub and I still do, although I feel that the sub cost should include ALL developed content. The pay store is here to stay since the game went B2P. As long as it doesn't offer P2W items I usually ignore it. But I draw the fucking line with gamble boxes! If I want a cosmetic item bad enough I will spend the extra money and buy it, knowing exactly what the extra cost is. DO NOT nickel and dime me to death with a 0.0001% chance to win the item I'm after!
Nickel and dime? Aren't those things $3-4$ a crack?
It is this headline to this particular forum that has kept me away from playing ESO or any game that requires you to pay extra to have any fun. NO THANKS!
It is this headline to this particular forum that has kept me away from playing ESO or any game that requires you to pay extra to have any fun. NO THANKS!
The fun in ESO is in the game, not in the lootboxes. So worry not, you really don't have to pay extra to have your fun.
/Cheers, Lahnmir
'the only way he could nail it any better is if he used a cross.'
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
@Spiider Crates provide no real benefit other than cosmetics....and you dont have to participate. Ive received one crate in my entire playtime as a bonus for subscribing, and I have no inclination to buy more. Id rather look the other way with crates and play a fun game than spite myself over principal...
Sadly done people simply want to complain about a purely cosmetic create. Others avoid it due to addition issues. But in the end eso/gw2 have the LEAST damaging rng creates.
free 7 day sub and unlocks for swtor new accounts and 90+ day inactive subs click here to get it!
yeah I actually went in game to see what he was saying and "lo and behold" One can get special lava mounts (really look ugly but to each his own) only through the loot crate system.
Well, that's shame. And a slippery slope.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
yeah I actually went in game to see what he was saying and "lo and behold" One can get special lava mounts (really look ugly but to each his own) only through the loot crate system.
Well, that's shame. And a slippery slope.
The inevitable nudge from publishers/developers towards more and more aggressive monetization. Not saying that to accuse them; my point is merely that consumers should acknowledge what is a clear pattern by now.
Comments
I'm no longer a subscriber to ESO, but these type of events do tempt me to resubscribe for a month although I usually do so when these type of events include everyone.
I won't resubscribe though probably since I only log in almost daily to upgrade my mount skills currently.
ESO slowly loss my interest during the Champion Points grinding. I made it till 173 CPs or close, but really enjoyed the game while leveling.
Whereas the whole RNG should be supplemental to a game, imo, nowadays games are being designed around the RNG gambling tool.
I have a feeling if they raised box prices to $90 or some such thing there would be a huge outcry. Or maybe 30 dollar sub?
In the end, they need to make "x" amount of dollars, whether players agree with it or not, and they are going to do it the best way they know how.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Here's the type of gamer that has enabled the situation were all in now.
I have no problem paying for a monthly sub and I still do, although I feel that the sub cost should include ALL developed content.
The pay store is here to stay since the game went B2P. As long as it doesn't offer P2W items I usually ignore it.
But I draw the fucking line with gamble boxes! If I want a cosmetic item bad enough I will spend the extra money and buy it, knowing exactly what the extra cost is. DO NOT nickel and dime me to death with a 0.0001% chance to win the item I'm after!
As far as I can see, the lootboxes include items that are available i the store. Or is that going to change?
If, for argument's sake, the only way to get a cosmetic item (or "whatever") was through the lootboxes you would then have a point.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
The idea that we're okay with renting games is not really that we're "okay" with it- there's not really ever been another option to consumers. Hell, a significant portion likely don't even realize they don't technically "own" the software, because all that is written in legalese and buried in a document the size of an end of semester essay project.
The idea that consumers have the time to delve into each individual "essay" for all their software is, quite frankly, unrealistic in the extreme. That's where my sarcastic remark about the regulations and government involvement came in. The US government is de facto allowing the software companies free reign to bury consumer-exploiting clauses into things like EULA and TOS because they're too afraid of pissing off a lobby group or being the victim of a political opponent twisting the position to hurt their career (because God knows Americans, by and large, know only what the party and the associated news agencies tell them is true). That's no excuse for the government- it's an indictment that they should've been more proactive in monitoring the growth and evolution of consumer software available to their citizens to ensure any purchase or transaction is just as fair and equitable in the virtual realm as it is in the physical. They didn't, and we don't own a single thing on our PCs (save for, say, photos we took and uploaded to the PC) anymore: we simply bought the rights to use it until the software company deems us unfit to continue using it or, in many cases, they simply want us to use their newer product.
However, I couldn't be arsed to type all that out because I was at the gym. So I left a sarcastic comment knowing you wouldn't disappoint and would respond with something interesting to debate and discuss.
The rest of your point about ESO's monetization I don't largely disagree with. ESO is just a player in a system that was never created to be equitable in the first place.
EDIT- to make the relevance to your original point clearer:
The way gamers pay for games, "renting" them, is not very different from the way software in general works. Consumers never got together and said "hey, this is how we choose to enjoy purchasing software," because that would require someone actually taking up the issue with an authority party that can create such a system (government). That's never happened, so why single out gamers as if we specifically asked for loot box monetization? We didn't even ask for the base monetization system of software, because no one has ever been very interested in taking g up the consumer advocate position in the virtual realm until very recently. And, you, among others, have pushed back against even these recent attempts, trying to use the logic of "you were cool with getting slightly screwed before, so why do you care if you're being royally screwed now?"
No, nobody is cool with getting screwed. They just know the limitations of an amalgamation of easily influenced, disparate strangers trying to influence the decisions of large, monolithic corporations without the help of the one entity that was formed specifically to give voice to us for these very kinds of situations.
The middle tier stuff can only be had with a new currency they added with the crates, "crown gems" that you get by getting repeat collectible items from the crates that you then trade back in or trading back in some of the junk you don't want.
But the highest tier loot box items, "Apex Plus" which are mostly mounts, can not be bought with either crowns from the normal cash shop nor with the crown gem currency. Those are loot box only exclusives.
He does have a point.
Edit: In case you're interested here's a wiki page that provides the details on all items available for each crown crate "season."
http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Crown_Crates
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
"...entity that was formed specifically to give voice to us..."
That is the plain purpose of all level of governments and is expressed by their laws and regulations. It's why I cringe whenever I see people railing against "big government" or regulations. They're just swallowing and then repeating the doublespeak PR lines from those whose interest and profits depend on small government and less regulations namely, the corporations.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
Wa min God! Se æx on min heafod is!
Its not pay to win. But mounts and cosmetic gear should also be available in-game, imo. Its a bummer.
Should have been a thing right from launch but once again, better late than never.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee
Let's party like it is 1863!
/Cheers,
Lahnmir
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
Sadly done people simply want to complain about a purely cosmetic create. Others avoid it due to addition issues. But in the end eso/gw2 have the LEAST damaging rng creates.
free 7 day sub and unlocks for swtor new accounts and 90+ day inactive subs click here to get it!
Click here for trove referral, bonuses to both!
Well, that's shame. And a slippery slope.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo