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Crowfall's $7,000 Castle

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  • Loke666Loke666 Member EpicPosts: 21,441
    LynxJSA said:
    What are you winning by buying that castle?
    A castle?
    IceAgeJamesGoblinwaynejr2djnj2000jdlamson75
  • IceAgeIceAge Member EpicPosts: 2,892
    Sovrath said:
    IceAge said:

    If you would read what I said, I clearly stated that I don't care what you do in real life and what I care is if you come to the virtual life and shit on my entertainment by spending huge sum of cash because you want fame, power, etc. in a game which normally is meant for fun. 

    And yes, I am afraid is not the same, as you said "they are very much real life" , because it is a virtual life after all and not a real life . But hey, maybe somehow , you are living in a virtual life, pretending that is a real life. 

    And again , I did said that I do not play this shitty games and what I say it's just an opinion.

    In the end, do whatever you want with your cash, but as I said , if this involve other players then it's bad. 

    Now tell me , as far as I remember, you loved the shit out of Lineage 2. How did you felt when others bought adena with real cash? You stated above that : You "think" that this is going to affect you but most likely it will not . It's a simple question with a simple answer. If you will answer "No" just to ..I don't know, keep your opinion alive, then you either spent cash by buying adena, or you didn't give a shit about the game. 

    I know what "Devil's Advocate" means. What I don't know is how in the hell you are neutral to a thing like this when history learned us that this kind of.."approach" it's bad for the health of a game. 
    Well, several things,

    As ive' said over and over and over and over again, the games that support people paying large amounts of cash are different than, say, a game like Lineage 2 which (at least at the time when I played) did not allow people to do that. It was against the rules.

    A game that has, as part of its monetization, the ability for players to buy in game assets is different than a game where people buying items is against the rules.

    I am going to quote this, as the rest is really not going anywhere.

    Yes, you are right ! There is a difference. One where legit players don't like the ones who buy "power" in a game where is against the rules, and second , where legit players hates both , the company and the "flower power players" .

    But they do have one thing in common. Legit players don't like "power players" in both games. 

    And this is the reason why such companies ( aka greedy companies ) will always focus on the whales .

    If you don't care or ok , don't react with an opinion against and when one spends huge money in a MMO ( where it affects the others ) then you are part of them and the reason why this .. thing ( MMO ) is going down.

    Ignorance is bad !

    Reporter: What's behind Blizzard success, and how do you make your gamers happy?
    Blizzard Boss: Making gamers happy is not my concern, making money.. yes!

  • FrykkaFrykka Member UncommonPosts: 154
    edited September 2017
    IceAge said:
    Sovrath said:
    IceAge said:
    The general rule is that you charge what the market can bare.  I won't buy a 7k castle but if someone else wants to then good for them. Other games charge 15k, 10k, for digital rental rights and people pay.  I hope it's worth it for them.
    For the love of games, it's wrong man! Is so fucking wrong. 
    Only if you think that every video game has to be made for the every man.

    I'm going to assume that you also think multi million dollar mansions, luxury/sports cars, fine suits and high end jewelry are all wrong (among other things). Perfectly fine if you do.
    You are comparing real life with video games, which is sad coming from you since I "know" you from the beginnings.

    I have nothing against whatever you said. I am very much against people paying huge sum of cash to have advantage and to feed the greedy dev's. 

    If real life was all about "having fun" , then your point could stand. Video games, from my point of view, are about having fun! Saying that someone who is paying 7k wants to have fun is wrong. They pay that sum of cash for personal reasons such as : having a big advantage over others, fame , and alike. 

    I stand 100% against this shit, no matter whatever "reasons" X or Y are having for paying that cash in a video game, especially MMO's , because that is the very main point. If the game was single player , then fuck it. Pay 1 mil, I don't care. Close yourself in a basement , pay 1 mil and play the game solo. But when other players are involved, then we have a problem.

    IceAge said:
    Sovrath said:
    IceAge said:
    The general rule is that you charge what the market can bare.  I won't buy a 7k castle but if someone else wants to then good for them. Other games charge 15k, 10k, for digital rental rights and people pay.  I hope it's worth it for them.
    For the love of games, it's wrong man! Is so fucking wrong. 
    Only if you think that every video game has to be made for the every man.

    I'm going to assume that you also think multi million dollar mansions, luxury/sports cars, fine suits and high end jewelry are all wrong (among other things). Perfectly fine if you do.
    You are comparing real life with video games, which is sad coming from you since I "know" you from the beginnings.

    I have nothing against whatever you said. I am very much against people paying huge sum of cash to have advantage and to feed the greedy dev's. 

    If real life was all about "having fun" , then your point could stand. Video games, from my point of view, are about having fun! Saying that someone who is paying 7k wants to have fun is wrong. They pay that sum of cash for personal reasons such as : having a big advantage over others, fame , and alike. 

    I stand 100% against this shit, no matter whatever "reasons" X or Y are having for paying that cash in a video game, especially MMO's , because that is the very main point. If the game was single player , then fuck it. Pay 1 mil, I don't care. Close yourself in a basement , pay 1 mil and play the game solo. But when other players are involved, then we have a problem.

    You are so far off the mark because you falsely believe that a 7K castle adds some kind of advantage to your gameplay...  it simply doesn't add anything to the player power curve.   It is fluff...   come test the real game instead of spreading bs.  The devs have a number of funding strategies and none of it lines their pockets, it gets the game built.  This is not a AAA title from a major development house, it is a niche game for PvP players offering FvF and GvG or FFA worlds that have endings and win conditions.

    JamesGoblin
  • WizardryWizardry Member LegendaryPosts: 19,332
    Even if ANY item is cosmetic,the whole idea of immersive gaming inside a mmorpg is what?To buy stuff from a cash shop?
    There is NO EXCUSE for selling game assets that belong 100% inside the game world so that players earn every inch ,everything they build,keep,craft.
    No matter what defensive excuse someone comes up with there is also the added fact that once a cash shop is implemented NOBODY has any control over how far it goes and ruins the game and the immersive feeling players can have.

    So for example,you invest 2-3 years in this game,then all of a sudden they introduce something in the cash shop that is insane and pisses you off,then what,suck it up ,get a refund? "good luck with that,plus your time invested is already ruined/lost.
    Everything in a game should stay in the game,everything in a game should be created in the game,cash shops are and always will be bullshit.

    Create a good game,if you need ongoing costs ,charge a monthly sub fee,if players don't like a sub fee they are telling you that your game is not good enough,so then improve it so there is some value/worth,EASY plan if your business knows what it is doing.

    Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.

  • YaevinduskYaevindusk Member RarePosts: 2,094
    Wizardry said:
    Even if ANY item is cosmetic,the whole idea of immersive gaming inside a mmorpg is what?To buy stuff from a cash shop?
    There is NO EXCUSE for selling game assets that belong 100% inside the game world so that players earn every inch ,everything they build,keep,craft.
    No matter what defensive excuse someone comes up with there is also the added fact that once a cash shop is implemented NOBODY has any control over how far it goes and ruins the game and the immersive feeling players can have.

    So for example,you invest 2-3 years in this game,then all of a sudden they introduce something in the cash shop that is insane and pisses you off,then what,suck it up ,get a refund? "good luck with that,plus your time invested is already ruined/lost.
    Everything in a game should stay in the game,everything in a game should be created in the game,cash shops are and always will be bullshit.

    Create a good game,if you need ongoing costs ,charge a monthly sub fee,if players don't like a sub fee they are telling you that your game is not good enough,so then improve it so there is some value/worth,EASY plan if your business knows what it is doing.

    You hear that 99.99% of the MMOs that were created in the last twenty years?  It's easy if you know what you're doing.  The games that are still seeking funding / creating their game should also just charge subscriptions.  If they can't make money that way, then their pre-alpha isn't good enough.

    If they're not a part of a big company, they shouldn't make games; we can trust big corporations.  Implies Wizardry.

    -----------------------

    This is just a bias rant applying hatred towards something in an out-of-context way.  Poorly thought out in such a way as to imply that only large companies or people with money should be making games, no exceptions.  It puts crowd-funded or games in development on the same level as fully completed games that have been out for years and makes assertions.  Putting Mr. Wizardry's signature and history of bashing certain games aside, there is a specific hatred towards ways for companies to make money or cash shops in general; likely personal experience of completed games that are in the twilight years of their upkeep implementing things he/she had earned and applying that to a game that has it at the start, which uses it as a funding source to even make the game targeted at a niche crowd.  Those who enjoy it or will enjoy it are wrong as it should never have been created under any circumstances, as there is "NO EXCUSE" for cash shops.  Even if they're fluff / aesthetics and used primarily to build the game.  There is also the situation that different genres simply can't live off a subscription.  Does that mean that people that enjoy the niche are wrong and their type of games should never exist? 

    I've felt the sting of a game selling things that I've earned many a time, years after it was completed.  This was as early as Ultima Online with them selling "Advanced Characters" which caused me to quite the game.  Though times change and there are circumstances and conditions that I just have to accept; context to acknowledge and the recognition of my own bias perception or potential hatred of things.  To put simply, I quit games that I find have betrayed my faith in some way.  Though I at least understand the situation they're in, if it was a hard choice to come by and don't hold it against them much.  It is, in my opinion, wrong to apply the same standard of thought to every game, every game company and every situation.

    Star Citizen has a subscription for people right now.  People pay into what they want / believe in / feel is worth it.  We can't change their minds and there are different situations and thoughts for different folds as a whole.
    JamesGoblin
    Due to frequent travel in my youth, English isn't something I consider my primary language (and thus I obtained quirky ways of writing).  German and French were always easier for me despite my family being U.S. citizens for over a century.  Spanish I learned as a requirement in school, Japanese and Korean I acquired for my youthful desire of anime and gaming (and also work now).  I only debate in English to help me work with it (and limit things).  In addition, I'm not smart enough to remain fluent in everything and typically need exposure to get in the groove of things again if I haven't heard it in a while.  If you understand Mandarin, I know a little, but it has actually been a challenge and could use some help.

    Also, I thoroughly enjoy debates and have accounts on over a dozen sites for this.  If you wish to engage in such, please put effort in a post and provide sources -- I will then do the same with what I already wrote (if I didn't) as well as with my responses to your own.  Expanding my information on a subject makes my stance either change or strengthen the next time I speak of it or write a thesis.  Allow me to thank you sincerely for your time.
  • berlightberlight Member UncommonPosts: 345
    edited September 2017
    wow 7k? jesus christ, I could buy a good 2nd hand car in real life ffs

    Beta tester maniac

  • paulythebpaulytheb Member UncommonPosts: 363
    All this is is a fancy building in your private kingdom.

    It offers no gameplay advantage.

    It is a decoration in instanced housing. Nothing more.

    It makes your private fantasy kingdom slightly larger. Since they are essentially limitless in size it matters not at all.

    ( Note to self-Don't say anything bad about Drizzt.)

    An acerbic sense of humor is NOT allowed here.

  • JamesGoblinJamesGoblin Member RarePosts: 1,242
    Why is there even a whole page of people discussing P2W here when nobody involved in the debate even knows anything about Crowfall EK's. lol, people complaining about shit they don't even understand
      Hey, that's how the internet works.

    All this is is a fancy building in your private kingdom.

    It offers no gameplay advantage.

    It is a decoration in instanced housing. Nothing more.

    It makes your private fantasy kingdom slightly larger. Since they are essentially limitless in size it matters not at all.

    Another important (and regularly overlooked) detail is that they are not selling any of these. I am following Crowfall pledgemeter rather closely, and I don't remember a single $7k bump (or anything close to it) in the last couple years, and there was certainly none in 2017.

    Not that ACE would complain about extra $7k (or two), but they're too busy making the game to bother about that. Simply, the game is not built around the cash shop as many others are, with which the local crowd is too triggerhappy to compare on an autopilot.
     W...aaagh?
  • Octagon7711Octagon7711 Member LegendaryPosts: 8,996
    edited October 2017
    Over 13 million raised.  Must be doing something right.  Hopefully money is not the root of all evil in this case.  7K for a castle, count me out. 
    JamesGoblin

    "We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa      "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are."  SR Covey

  • cielyciely Member UncommonPosts: 124
    edited October 2017
    this is why i ignore kickstarters  o:) 7k for a building, that is retarded!
    JamesGoblin
  • d3lf250d3lf250 Member CommonPosts: 1
    While these items may or may not effect game play they do give an insight into the mindset of the devs or the vision of the game.  It's actually not even the $7,000 castles that they are selling that is the problem. It's the $30 skins for a horse and $20 for a pack rat and $25 for this and $50 for that... Just like GTA V, you are paying more for a stupid ass car then you did for the entire game. Crowfall will be no different.  Cash shop games have ruined gaming and will continue to do so until people decide to stop playing them.

    Just a side note:
    The incentive for game developers of cash shop games is to create new stuff for you to buy. The incentive for developers of games that are funded by subscription is to improve the game, expand the world and keep you interested and having fun so you will continue to pay the subscription.
    JamesGoblin
  • FrykkaFrykka Member UncommonPosts: 154
    edited November 2017
    Wizardry said:
    Even if ANY item is cosmetic,the whole idea of immersive gaming inside a mmorpg is what?To buy stuff from a cash shop?
    There is NO EXCUSE for selling game assets that belong 100% inside the game world so that players earn every inch ,everything they build,keep,craft.
    No matter what defensive excuse someone comes up with there is also the added fact that once a cash shop is implemented NOBODY has any control over how far it goes and ruins the game and the immersive feeling players can have.

    So for example,you invest 2-3 years in this game,then all of a sudden they introduce something in the cash shop that is insane and pisses you off,then what,suck it up ,get a refund? "good luck with that,plus your time invested is already ruined/lost.
    Everything in a game should stay in the game,everything in a game should be created in the game,cash shops are and always will be bullshit.

    Create a good game,if you need ongoing costs ,charge a monthly sub fee,if players don't like a sub fee they are telling you that your game is not good enough,so then improve it so there is some value/worth,EASY plan if your business knows what it is doing.
    It won't BE in the cash shop and as an early backer item only, it will be retired at the end of this month as the game transitions from funding stage to to the release monitization.  Again this item CAN be created by crafting it but you are talking something that would take a large guild months to farm up the materials for.  Also, this item does not provide ANY combat or PvP power curve benefit.  It is a prestige item only...   In FACT, nothing in the cash shop will be PtW in any way, shape, or form and it will stay that way, most players won't use the cash shop for anything except monthly subscription packages that give breadth of training but no depth of training.  Artcraft Devs are open and honest to their players.

    This whole thread is filled with nonsense from non-players of crowfall who don't know a thing about the game, it's current state, or how it is played.



    JamesGoblin
  • sanshi44sanshi44 Member UncommonPosts: 1,187
    kitarad said:
    It depends on whether you can earn a fortress of similar fortification in game. if the appearance is the only difference then it would be cosmetic.

    Even if you can earn it, are you familiar with the term "pay to win?"  If paying cash gives you an instant, functional item that someone else can earn by investing time, that fits the definition.  IDK, maybe I'm wrong and someone who knows more about Crowfall can chime in saying that this item doesn't give you a real-world advantage for cash.
    All it does it sit in the Eternal kingdom and look pretty there no advantage to having a pretty Eternal kingdoms where everything happens in campaign worlds.
    Ethernal kingdom is pretty much housing in other games just at a larger scale.
    JamesGoblin
  • Arkade99Arkade99 Member RarePosts: 538
    Over 13 million raised.  Must be doing something right.  Hopefully money is not the root of all evil in this case.  7K for a castle, count me out. 
    7k for a castle that you don't need and gives you absolutely no competitive advantage if you do have it. CF has raised almost 20 mil now, but only 4 mil of that is from crowdfunding. The rest has been through investors and licensing.

    https://crowfall.com/en/funding/
    JamesGoblin
  • FrykkaFrykka Member UncommonPosts: 154
    edited December 2017
    d3lf250 said:
    While these items may or may not effect game play they do give an insight into the mindset of the devs or the vision of the game.  It's actually not even the $7,000 castles that they are selling that is the problem. It's the $30 skins for a horse and $20 for a pack rat and $25 for this and $50 for that... Just like GTA V, you are paying more for a stupid ass car then you did for the entire game. Crowfall will be no different.  Cash shop games have ruined gaming and will continue to do so until people decide to stop playing them.

    Just a side note:
    The incentive for game developers of cash shop games is to create new stuff for you to buy. The incentive for developers of games that are funded by subscription is to improve the game, expand the world and keep you interested and having fun so you will continue to pay the subscription.
    Many players in Crowfall will choose to go with the subscription (because in its current form, it is better than multiple accounts) but those without that kind of gaming budget can just buy the game and play...  The VIP subscription at $15 allows you to train parallel skills (2 0f 3:combat, harvesting or crafting) on the same account and 2 races and 2 classes.   Since vessels are permalocked to race when you craft them and you lock it to race when you enter the vessel (including it stat adjustments, skin colors, hair etc)  you will only be equal in power to non-VIP player who go only into the combat tree.  VIP on a resource gathering account will allow you to both gather like a champ and fight back like a champ... this is too valuable to pass up in this one case since the world is open PvP and gatherers have to fight or die (and lose the resources they gather).

    As Artcraft moves to release monitization the box sales are by far the most important revenue followed by and expected 20-25% players buying monthly VIP and very little expectations of revenue from the store (more from t-shirts, coffee cups and hats than from any fluff game items.

    FYI the mounts in the store are mounts, not skins...   they don't make you more powerful, just get you around and in some campaigns they will probably be lootable...  buy at your own silly risk, players will be making mounts in-game through the animal husbandry craft.

    JamesGoblin
  • LinifLinif Member UncommonPosts: 332
    From what I understand, it's just for the social aspect of the game. It holds no weight in PvP therefore gives no one any particular type of advantage. The only advantage I can see people having from this is any percieved notion of superiority, because "Their castle is bigger than mine" or "They have something I don't."

    But I've been trawling these forums for awhile and the crowfall website (approximately 2 hours) trying to figure out what this cash shop thing is going to be about and what will be on it. Any clues?
  • JamesGoblinJamesGoblin Member RarePosts: 1,242
    @Linif $7k castles are gone forever, Crowfall team removed them from the shop for good couple days ago, as promised. They're gone together with anything over $200 - at least building section is clear, as I checked.

    Buildings in eternal kingdoms will be (besides housing and being a big toy for showing off or playing with inner/outter decoration etc.) connected with economy and crafting, via stuff such as tax benefits and slots for NPC workers and crafting stations - turning them into small factories.

    These, and some more, are supposed to attract players from smaller kingdoms to move their assets (I mean to virtually move their buildings and land!) to big kingdoms. Devs expect that this mobility will lead to forming of a small number of huge super-kingdoms i.e. continent-sized servers ran by this guild or that aliance...or simply by one of 15 whales that spent $10k each on Kickstarter packages with a bunch of biggest and bestest buildings inside.
     W...aaagh?
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