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The MMOsThat Had It Worst in 2017 - The List - MMORPG.com

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  • odiasudaodiasuda Member UncommonPosts: 158

    goozmania said:

    Wildstar's combat is just really bad... You can't circumvent that with content updates...



    It reminds me very much of FF14 before it got rebooted.



    Yep, it's a turd. Nothing can overcome terrible combat in a game.
    Hariken
  • TheScavengerTheScavenger Member EpicPosts: 3,321
    edited December 2017
    odiasuda said:

    goozmania said:

    Wildstar's combat is just really bad... You can't circumvent that with content updates...



    It reminds me very much of FF14 before it got rebooted.



    Yep, it's a turd. Nothing can overcome terrible combat in a game.
    Not exactly true. ESO combat, class design and combat animations are terrible, and animations feel VERY floaty (worse than skyrim and that was already rather bad). GW2 has far better combat, far more fun to play classes and great animations.

    But ESO still does really well because all the other features and I play it for everything else. I definitely don't play ESO for its lackluster combat and boring to play classes, and the rest of the game by far makes up for that.
    Samhael

    My Skyrim, Fallout 4, Starbound and WoW + other game mods at MODDB: 

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  • blorpykinsblorpykins Member RarePosts: 466


    Shroud of The Avatar is probably the worst MMO I have ever seen with the hype that it had. That game is pure trash and will be an epic failure. That said, Richard Garriot supposedly made great games back in the 1980's. Seeming that Koster was the charge of UO, I am not sure it would be fitting for Garriot to take credit for that.



    Anyway, SoTA is trash.



    This. Raph is a legend and the genius that made UO great. He makes games fun, SOTA is the opposite of fun.
    KezAzzameanIce-QueenjammaplayaSarlaAron_Swordmasterjason523
  • WylfWylf Member UncommonPosts: 368
    IMHO, Marvel Heroes did not close because it was bad or failing. It's demise is all tried up in Disney's greed and licensing of the heroes. Though it was a bad year for the game, obviously, it's not because of internal creative issues.
    AzucArSaladLiljna
  • Tiamat64Tiamat64 Member RarePosts: 1,461
    edited December 2017


    Shroud of The Avatar is probably the worst MMO I have ever seen with the hype that it had. That game is pure trash and will be an epic failure. That said, Richard Garriot supposedly made great games back in the 1980's. Seeming that Koster was the charge of UO, I am not sure it would be fitting for Garriot to take credit for that.



    Anyway, SoTA is trash.



    This. Raph is a legend and the genius that made UO great. He makes games fun, SOTA is the opposite of fun.
    I was there with UO from the start.  I was there with UO for eleven years.  I was constantly posting to the forums and reading the forums about upcoming patches and interacting with the developers who would often visit various forum communities to solicit feedback and advice, with several of them even posting planned patch notes in advance and asking if anything should be changed.  Ralph was one of those people.

    Do you know who was NEVER there?

    Richard Garriott.

    Like, EVER.

    My vague memory tells me that there were even times that developers stated he was no longer involved with the project and hasn't been since almost the beginning.  But I'm getting old and that was a long time ago so my memory could be wrong.  *shrug*

    Also, I'm pretty sure by most peoples' opinion, Shroud of the Avatar is a lot worse than this article seems to indicate (which is saying something considering that this article didn't paint it in a really positive light in the first place).
    KezAzzameanIce-QueenjammaplayaSarlacover2xyAron_Swordmasterjason523
  • immoralthangimmoralthang Member UncommonPosts: 171
    What do you guys think deserves most improved MMO this year? I have to nominate the Division. I bought the game at launch and couldn’t get in to it but it really is a good game now.
  • moosecatlolmoosecatlol Member UncommonPosts: 1,466
    CoH was axed for Wildstar. Wildstar was a mistake.
    wingood
  • Solar_ProphetSolar_Prophet Member RarePosts: 1,932
    As I've said before, playing SotA has really made me look back and wonder if it really was EA's fault that the Ultima series descended into the sewer after 7. They obviously contributed greatly to it, but I no longer place the blame solely upon them.

    Garriott has complete control over SotA with no 'big, evil publisher' to get in the way, and it's a nearly unplayable mess riddled with so many microtransactions that it may as well have been published by EA. There's no one to blame but him at this point, and it's a damn shame to see someone who had a large part in the creation of so many of my favorite RPGs prove that whatever creative genius he once possessed has long since left him. He's nothing more than a washed up has-been, and an inert relic of a golden age. I honestly wish he'd just faded into obscurity after TR at this point.
    NildenIce-Queencover2xyAron_Swordmasterjason523

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  • k61977k61977 Member RarePosts: 1,195

    Wylf said:

    IMHO, Marvel Heroes did not close because it was bad or failing. It's demise is all tried up in Disney's greed and licensing of the heroes. Though it was a bad year for the game, obviously, it's not because of internal creative issues.



    You need to look more into this one. It was shuttered because of the things the devs were doing. It was going to fail because they were doing things they were not suppose to. Hell a dev bailed right before it was closed down if I remember right and things started coming out. I agree that disney can be greedy but greed had nothing to do with this one. I am sure they would have loved to keep getting the checks for them using the IP without doing anything but sitting back collecting.
    maskedweaselLiljna
  • KezAzzameanKezAzzamean Member UncommonPosts: 10

    Tiamat64 said:







    Shroud of The Avatar is probably the worst MMO I have ever seen with the hype that it had. That game is pure trash and will be an epic failure. That said, Richard Garriot supposedly made great games back in the 1980's. Seeming that Koster was the charge of UO, I am not sure it would be fitting for Garriot to take credit for that.





    Anyway, SoTA is trash.






    This. Raph is a legend and the genius that made UO great. He makes games fun, SOTA is the opposite of fun.


    I was there with UO from the start.  I was there with UO for eleven years.  I was constantly posting to the forums and reading the forums about upcoming patches and interacting with the developers who would often visit various forum communities to solicit feedback and advice, with several of them even posting planned patch notes in advance and asking if anything should be changed.  Ralph was one of those people.

    Do you know who was NEVER there?

    Richard Garriott.

    Like, EVER.

    My vague memory tells me that there were even times that developers stated he was no longer involved with the project and hasn't been since almost the beginning.  But I'm getting old and that was a long time ago so my memory could be wrong.  *shrug*

    Also, I'm pretty sure by most peoples' opinion, Shroud of the Avatar is a lot worse than this article seems to indicate (which is saying something considering that this article didn't paint it in a really positive light in the first place).



    I almost went into how this article wasn't as harsh on SoTA as it should have be, but since you mention it... It seemed like the author has very fond memories of Garriot and I see this a lot. People who were very engaged in playing Ultima games view him in a positive light and seem to excuse or downplay how bad SoTA really is. I actually never played an Ultima game. I played years of Ultima Online. So I didn't have an opinion on Garriot before SoTA. As you said though, in UO it was mainly Koster, and not Garriot. All I knew of Garriot was that he was the top person at Ultima Online. To be blunt about SoTA, it is just pure trash. It is a cash grab full of RMT's who are desperate to make a buck off of anyone. The developers focus more time and energy on their add on store, which is all re-skinned Unity, than they do on the game. It is literally a virtual fantasy land for whales and RMT's. But no one has to just take my word. Go on and give the trial a shot. See what you think of it. Their average player count is still the same after 6 months of trials. The last 30 days literally has the same amount of peak players as it did in November 2014. It is a shame really.
    Ice-Queenjammaplayacover2xyAron_Swordmasterjason523
  • KezAzzameanKezAzzamean Member UncommonPosts: 10




    Shroud of The Avatar is probably the worst MMO I have ever seen with the hype that it had. That game is pure trash and will be an epic failure. That said, Richard Garriot supposedly made great games back in the 1980's. Seeming that Koster was the charge of UO, I am not sure it would be fitting for Garriot to take credit for that.



    Anyway, SoTA is trash.


    Cry some more. Maybe rune_74 will buy you a beer and cry with you.



    What an odd and radnom comment to make.
    jammaplaya
  • DavodtheTuttDavodtheTutt Member UncommonPosts: 371
    I tried Shroud of the Avatar and didn't notice the problem with microtransactions or anything that seemed to warrant the incredible ranting acid venomous responses it keeps getting. I did quit fairly soon, after realizing it wasn't quite as innovative as I'd hoped, but it seemed pretty much on par with a lot of games I've tried (and I've tried quite a few), worse in some ways but better in others.

    The problem with MMORPGs for me is that they all come down to the same sort of basic gameplay -- go out and kill some things by yourself, or maybe now and then join a mob of other players to take down something big. There may be crafting but likely you have to kill some things to get the ingredients, and all you do is follow a recipe to put ingredients into slots and you get what the recipe says it will produce.

    There may be fishing but it's not really like fishing. Fishing only in certain spots, or there's no rhyme or reason to which fish you catch, except for the level. You may have to type a code in a limited time to catch the fish, or do something else that's more like playing an arcade game than simply reeling in the fish. Same with everything else that's not fighting.

    And I don't know what all the fuss about different combat systems is all about -- they all come down to mashing some buttons or keys till the poor "monster" or "enemy" is dead.

    You could know all about chemistry, metallurgy, physics, engineering, biology -- none of that is going to help you in the "survival" games or the "crafting," etc., and you're not going to learn anything about them, not even virtual, simplified, other-worldly versions of them. Unless you count knowing the recipes which everyone else is walked through.

    The game may have a "lore" about ancient civilizations, but will knowing different languages or linguistics or coding help you translate hieroglyphics or symbols or alphabetic writing? Does a team ever ask if there's someone who knows how to reprogram the robots or anything that takes real intelligence or real-world knowledge?

    Does any game even allow for trying to combine different ingredients so that someone who applies themselves to "alchemy" or whatever might discover something new, something that wasn't entirely pre-programmed into the game?

    So for me, it all seems to come down to different flavors of following instructions (from "NPCs" that might as well be just signposts) as to what and how many of them I need to go and kill next. Different settings, different graphics (and levels of detail), different bells and whistles of other little things to do for variety, but none of that really makes much difference.
    TorvalthighhighsNodensAlpha
  • Tiamat64Tiamat64 Member RarePosts: 1,461
    k61977 said:

    Wylf said:

    IMHO, Marvel Heroes did not close because it was bad or failing. It's demise is all tried up in Disney's greed and licensing of the heroes. Though it was a bad year for the game, obviously, it's not because of internal creative issues.



    You need to look more into this one. It was shuttered because of the things the devs were doing. It was going to fail because they were doing things they were not suppose to. Hell a dev bailed right before it was closed down if I remember right and things started coming out. I agree that disney can be greedy but greed had nothing to do with this one. I am sure they would have loved to keep getting the checks for them using the IP without doing anything but sitting back collecting.
    Played Marvel Heroes since it launched and loved it for the longest time, but it really started going downhill after Brevik left and its descent accelerated over time.  There was like no content updates and Danger Room was okay, but then like everything else got forgotten and unupdated over time.  Newly released heroes were more and more just clones of previous heroes and uninteresting and the developers just stopped listening to the balancing feedback compared to prior heroes.  And then came the BUE where they didn't listen to a truckton of people and got all condescending and then the update dumbed down everything and blech.

    Most of that had nothing to do with Disney's greed and licensing of the heroes (although it's possible that Brevik left because of some internal dispute regarding that, especially considering that he left right around the confirmed time that the next batch of upcoming heroes was in development discussion and they specifically promised some X-Men only for there to be no X-Men blah blah blah but..... that's mostly speculation.  *shrug*)
  • moosecatlolmoosecatlol Member UncommonPosts: 1,466
    Tiamat64 said:
    k61977 said:

    Wylf said:

    IMHO, Marvel Heroes did not close because it was bad or failing. It's demise is all tried up in Disney's greed and licensing of the heroes. Though it was a bad year for the game, obviously, it's not because of internal creative issues.



    You need to look more into this one. It was shuttered because of the things the devs were doing. It was going to fail because they were doing things they were not suppose to. Hell a dev bailed right before it was closed down if I remember right and things started coming out. I agree that disney can be greedy but greed had nothing to do with this one. I am sure they would have loved to keep getting the checks for them using the IP without doing anything but sitting back collecting.
    Played Marvel Heroes since it launched and loved it for the longest time, but it really started going downhill after Brevik left and its descent accelerated over time.  There was like no content updates and Danger Room was okay, but then like everything else got forgotten and unupdated over time.  Newly released heroes were more and more just clones of previous heroes and uninteresting and the developers just stopped listening to the balancing feedback compared to prior heroes.  And then came the BUE where they didn't listen to a truckton of people and got all condescending and then the update dumbed down everything and blech.

    Most of that had nothing to do with Disney's greed and licensing of the heroes (although it's possible that Brevik left because of some internal dispute regarding that, especially considering that he left right around the confirmed time that the next batch of upcoming heroes was in development discussion and they specifically promised some X-Men only for there to be no X-Men blah blah blah but..... that's mostly speculation.  *shrug*)
    Don't forget the $200.00 founders pack that was simply selling you the promise of something on a foundation of nothing, which was the beta. Their end-game content was severely lacking, and gear acquisition was nothing more than a daily grind. Imagine if instead of trying to make an mmo, they instead made it more like Diablo 2, mod-able with offline play.

    Also whilst looking for an image I shopped during that whole founders joke, I instead found an image of Bioware's senior writer where she states hating playing video games.

    If anyone actually cares, it's because Marvel Future Fight proved that low-effort development makes more money than what Marvel Heroes was doing. They'll likely re-brand and relaunch marvel heroes as a shitty mobile game.
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 32,676
    I tried Shroud of the Avatar and didn't notice the problem with microtransactions or anything that seemed to warrant the incredible ranting acid venomous responses it keeps getting. I did quit fairly soon, after realizing it wasn't quite as innovative as I'd hoped, but it seemed pretty much on par with a lot of games I've tried (and I've tried quite a few), worse in some ways but better in others.

    The problem with MMORPGs for me is that they all come down to the same sort of basic gameplay -- go out and kill some things by yourself, or maybe now and then join a mob of other players to take down something big. There may be crafting but likely you have to kill some things to get the ingredients, and all you do is follow a recipe to put ingredients into slots and you get what the recipe says it will produce.

    There may be fishing but it's not really like fishing. Fishing only in certain spots, or there's no rhyme or reason to which fish you catch, except for the level. You may have to type a code in a limited time to catch the fish, or do something else that's more like playing an arcade game than simply reeling in the fish. Same with everything else that's not fighting.

    And I don't know what all the fuss about different combat systems is all about -- they all come down to mashing some buttons or keys till the poor "monster" or "enemy" is dead.

    You could know all about chemistry, metallurgy, physics, engineering, biology -- none of that is going to help you in the "survival" games or the "crafting," etc., and you're not going to learn anything about them, not even virtual, simplified, other-worldly versions of them. Unless you count knowing the recipes which everyone else is walked through.

    The game may have a "lore" about ancient civilizations, but will knowing different languages or linguistics or coding help you translate hieroglyphics or symbols or alphabetic writing? Does a team ever ask if there's someone who knows how to reprogram the robots or anything that takes real intelligence or real-world knowledge?

    Does any game even allow for trying to combine different ingredients so that someone who applies themselves to "alchemy" or whatever might discover something new, something that wasn't entirely pre-programmed into the game?

    So for me, it all seems to come down to different flavors of following instructions (from "NPCs" that might as well be just signposts) as to what and how many of them I need to go and kill next. Different settings, different graphics (and levels of detail), different bells and whistles of other little things to do for variety, but none of that really makes much difference.
    SWG probably came the closest to what you describe, with features such as experimention.

    http://swg.wikia.com/wiki/Experimentation


    NodensAlpha

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  • VesricVesric Member CommonPosts: 5
    Why isn't Archeage, another game Trion World's marketing team destroyed through it's ridiculous cash shop offering to P2W overload included here?

    I watched a stream on Twitch recently where one of thier own creators was utterly surprised enough people were online to form a raid... If that's not dead I don't know what is.

    Trion notoriously latches on to good games and drains the life blood from them like a parasite to line thier pockets. They suck the fun right our of games with greed. Looks like Devillion didn't make it out ethier.
  • NirimetusNirimetus Member UncommonPosts: 26
    I'm surprised no one commented on Tree of Savior, such a good project that started in the wrong hands and is now in the edge of it's grave.

    Still has lots of bugs from the first CBT and many new ones, not to count that the company didn't setup any security into the game and hackers and botters have their way with it all they want.
  • AllerleirauhAllerleirauh Member UncommonPosts: 485
    My sister and I actually enjoyed Devilian. I enjoy ARPGs; I know that a lot of people don't have much respect for them. It was only when I had an issue with customer support is when I decided to "quit", so I have no idea what the population is like now.

    This article sounds a little too much like "this game is dead" for my liking. Something I absolutely despise other gamers saying.
    Currently Playing: Path of Exile

    "I have found a desire within myself that no experience in this world can satisfy; the most probable explanation is that I was made for another world." ~ C. S. Lewis
  • TalulaRoseTalulaRose Member RarePosts: 1,247
    SC should be on this list.
  • blorpykinsblorpykins Member RarePosts: 466




    Shroud of The Avatar is probably the worst MMO I have ever seen with the hype that it had. That game is pure trash and will be an epic failure. That said, Richard Garriot supposedly made great games back in the 1980's. Seeming that Koster was the charge of UO, I am not sure it would be fitting for Garriot to take credit for that.



    Anyway, SoTA is trash.


    Cry some more. Maybe rune_74 will buy you a beer and cry with you.



    Nah, better to wait for the next telethon. Devs are always down for a party.

    jammaplayaAron_Swordmaster
  • RenoakuRenoaku Member EpicPosts: 3,034
    It's ashame that Marvel Heroes had to close down it was a good game, well at least some enjoyed it but personally I think the game needed a few tweaks to get my attention to the game personally.

    Revelation Online, I played it for about 7-8 hours the game was okay but it felt too generic, auto pathing, and the Pay 2 Enjoy aspect having to buy a pack for like $50 or more 5+ times to get costumes on every character not my type of game (Black Desert Online) is better in this aspect.

    Albion Online, I really don't talk about the game much anymore, after being perma banned just for accepting two trades in a beta test out of many trades over the years. In short the comapny had gold sellers coming into the game, and using stolen information to buy gold and trade to people the company knew about this in beta I didn't as a player but I found out after they hinted around and I looked into what was going on. The game company after beta launched and left it open for players to do this it was abused and filled with cheaters, and gold sellers doing this, with the company making threats to ban more players just for trading... And in short the customer service is awful trying to appeal a suspension or punishment its passed to random GM you don't even really know who ur talking to compared to like Blizzard Entertainment support or any other game for that matter.

    Devilian, not even sure where to begin I played the game for like 30 minutes just logged in it felt too much like Daiblo 3, but worse the character customization was horrid, and of course the Cash Shop making it nothing really unique, and by Trion Worlds obviously the same company that makes Arche Age and messed it up.

    Shroud OF The Avatar, Sounds familiar I think I logged into it at one time I am not sure really, but it didn't offer anything Unique felt very old, and I believe the guy who made this game made Tabula Rasa, one of the decent games I would love to see a re-make of something better and the general concept of the game could be better than Destiny 3 if used and totally re-designed properly.
  • TheocritusTheocritus Member EpicPosts: 6,810
    SC should be on this list.
    Why? didn't they make millions off a game that can barely qualify as pre alpha?
  • aCi11i3saCi11i3s Member UncommonPosts: 54
    Wildstar? Funny that it was mentioned so much here. Gameplay is it’s downfall...it’s boring. Plain and simple
  • BillMurphyBillMurphy Managing EditorMMORPG.COM Staff LegendaryPosts: 4,547
    Geeky said:
    Bill,
    Good job in "writing" an article that plays right into the MMORPG communities favorite thing. Bashing MMO's. Way to work for the community and industry that is doing so much for you. You do such a shit job at promoting growth and innovation in the genre and are only ever a second fiddle to "breaking news" in the field. This site could and should be such a positive resource for MMO's but it's mouth is stuck around Blizzards cock that nothing decent comes from this site anymore.
    One article that talks about MMOs that didn’t have a good year, and this is your input? I even kept the kid gloves on here, and tried to frame most of this article around hope for 2018. We are damned if we do, damned if we don’t. Either we are bought off, or too negative. Which is it? Can’t have it both ways. 
    TorvalConstantineMerusOctagon7711KyleranMadFrenchiejustin788ManWithNoTan

    Try to be excellent to everyone you meet. You never know what someone else has seen or endured.

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  • TheScavengerTheScavenger Member EpicPosts: 3,321
    Geeky said:
    Bill,
    Good job in "writing" an article that plays right into the MMORPG communities favorite thing. Bashing MMO's. Way to work for the community and industry that is doing so much for you. You do such a shit job at promoting growth and innovation in the genre and are only ever a second fiddle to "breaking news" in the field. This site could and should be such a positive resource for MMO's but it's mouth is stuck around Blizzards cock that nothing decent comes from this site anymore.
    One article that talks about MMOs that didn’t have a good year, and this is your input? I even kept the kid gloves on here, and tried to frame most of this article around hope for 2018. We are damned if we do, damned if we don’t. Either we are bought off, or too negative. Which is it? Can’t have it both ways. 
    Personally, I think MMORPG.com does fine with most of the articles. its nice to see a site have a "negative" viewpoint sometimes with the gaming genre, makes the site more real and less like the reviewers were paid off.

    Heck, some sites I looked were praising battlefront 2 loot boxes. I laughed and quit out of the sellouts :P fake news gaming sites right there. At least mmorpg.com isn't that
    justin788ManWithNoTan

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