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Call of Duty Swatting leads to death of a innocent man in Kansas

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  • zymurgeistzymurgeist Member RarePosts: 5,484
    Quizzical said:
    Asm0deus said:
    Quizzical said:
    Golelorn said:
    My beef is why is SWAT going in guns blazing and not asking serious questions... like "Hey, is this maybe a prank? What does my intuition say?" Instead, they are so trigger happy they really don't care - and "we" do not hold these idiots with guns accountable.

    Absolutely ridiculous a guy is murdered by a SWAT team and these idiots continue to fall for these pranks. SWAT doesn't care. They just want to blast a m-fer.

    The trigger man should be in prison, and the captain(whoever is in charge) should be fired/resign immediately.
    Because sometimes it's not a prank.  In the United States, about 100-200 police officers die on the job each year.  If you're an officer and go into a situation where you're confronting a criminal who will kill you if given a chance, you'd better pull the trigger quickly enough to stop him or you'll be dead.

    Distinguishing between an innocent person in the wrong place at the wrong time, a criminal who will cooperate with an arrest, and a very dangerous criminal who will try to kill the police that confront him is not always easy to do in the heat of the moment.
    That's not an excuse for bad behavior and gross incompetence leading to an innocent getting killed in his doorstep.

    Cops are "suppose" to be trained for these situation and to be able to make these "split second" decisions, they are suppose to follow a higher standard of behavior so they can fulfill their vows to "serve and protect". 

    Sadly what is going in the USA is that far too many officers are putting "their lives" above those they are suppose to be serving and protecting and some people stupidly applaud this in the name of kissing the blues backside.

    They do try to train for it, as well they should.  To take a less politically charged and less important situation, basketball players are trained to make the shots they take.  But they still miss a lot.  Reliably doing everything exactly right even when put into arbitrarily difficult situations is beyond human capabilities.

    Could the training or recruitment be better?  Perhaps, though it's much harder to say it could be made better in this particular way than that there is probably some way that it could be made better.  But few Internet commentators have the expertise to justifiably say that there would be fewer mistakes on all sides if only the training were changed in this or that way.
    The data doesn't lie.  Compared to other countries across the world, police shootings are much higher here in America...  much, much higher.

    Sort of like gun control- some American citizens cannot be convinced of anything they don't wish to believe, no matter how much data or evidence supports it.

    The data is basically crap. Many countries don't report police shootings as crimes, or homicides, or in any way at all. Most of the U.S. statistics come from scouring news reports and are notoriously inaccurate. The FBI UCR doesn't track officer involved shootings but that's due to change this year. So no your statement that police shootings is higher can't be backed up.  It's also misleading to compare the United States to other countries accurately unless you factor in population density, crime rates, and a dozen other factors.  
    JeffSpicoli

    "We have met the enemy and he is us." ~Pogo Possum. 

  • AllerleirauhAllerleirauh Member UncommonPosts: 496
    edited December 2017
    shaddy33 said:
    This goes to show, violent video games lead to violent actions. But porn and porn games have never led to murder.

    Looking at a nude body has never messed up someones mind so much where they will commit murder, like people who are really young and play very violent games and their brains grow into thinking violence is okay. 

    I remember seeing a movie years ago, and a family had their young kids (dunno exact age, looked like elementary kids) and they were laughing and clapping during the scenes where heads and body parts were being chopped off with blood everywhere. But then a boob popped out, they made a loud gasp sound and walked out of the theater with the kids. As they walked out I shouted at them and laughed at how hypocritical they were.

    But violent video games are even worse for kids because they are actually commiting violent actions through the games. Yet, the kid can see heads being blown up with blood everywhere...but...OH NO A BOOB
    Are you fucking serious?
    I have never seen an article where someone watched porn and then walked out of his house and gunned people down. There has never been a case where they've gone down and commited murder (either through themselves or swatting) just because they saw a boob. 

    I have however seen MANY articles where someone has played very violent games, gone out and shot a bunch of people. Lots of articles. I'm sure a google search would find a whole bunch since its kinda a common occurence, especially if the person started playing violent games at a really early age. A boob however has never made someone go out and go on a killing rampage or swatting someone.
    This is a WTF comment if I have ever seen one. First of all, you are comparing violent games with violent crimes and then comparing a pornographic game with violent crimes.

    You claim that pornographic game does not lead to violent crimes, but you never once mentioned sexual assault is a result of a pornographic game.
    If you ever read anything about the serial killer and rapist Ted Bundy, he claims that looking at pornography, particularly necrophiliac pornography as a youth, contributed to the crimes that he committed.

    Whether you believe that or not, to say a violent game causes violent crimes, but a pornographic game does nothing to a developing mind is ludicrous. It seems like you are justifying your own sick habit.
    Currently Playing: Path of Exile

    "I have found a desire within myself that no experience in this world can satisfy; the most probable explanation is that I was made for another world." ~ C. S. Lewis
  • TalulaRoseTalulaRose Member RarePosts: 1,247
    US policeman shoots unarmed civilian and kills him. Sadly this isn't surprising. More common place than anything else.
    bartoni33Asm0deus
  • zymurgeistzymurgeist Member RarePosts: 5,484
    This goes to show, violent video games lead to violent actions. But porn and porn games have never led to murder.


    Nothing of the sort. Violent people commit violent actions. Swatting, while a crime, isn't a violent action. Millions of people play violent games every day who wouldn't hurt a fly, even if they weren't too damn fat to get out of their chair and find a fly swatter. Judging groups by the actions of individuals is nonsensical. Also some porn games are quite violent involving rape and perversions of every sort. If that doesn't lead to murder there's obviously a flaw in your theory. 

    Allerleirauh

    "We have met the enemy and he is us." ~Pogo Possum. 

  • TheScavengerTheScavenger Member EpicPosts: 3,321
    shaddy33 said:
    This goes to show, violent video games lead to violent actions. But porn and porn games have never led to murder.

    Looking at a nude body has never messed up someones mind so much where they will commit murder, like people who are really young and play very violent games and their brains grow into thinking violence is okay. 

    I remember seeing a movie years ago, and a family had their young kids (dunno exact age, looked like elementary kids) and they were laughing and clapping during the scenes where heads and body parts were being chopped off with blood everywhere. But then a boob popped out, they made a loud gasp sound and walked out of the theater with the kids. As they walked out I shouted at them and laughed at how hypocritical they were.

    But violent video games are even worse for kids because they are actually commiting violent actions through the games. Yet, the kid can see heads being blown up with blood everywhere...but...OH NO A BOOB
    Are you fucking serious?
    I have never seen an article where someone watched porn and then walked out of his house and gunned people down. There has never been a case where they've gone down and commited murder (either through themselves or swatting) just because they saw a boob. 

    I have however seen MANY articles where someone has played very violent games, gone out and shot a bunch of people. Lots of articles. I'm sure a google search would find a whole bunch since its kinda a common occurence, especially if the person started playing violent games at a really early age. A boob however has never made someone go out and go on a killing rampage or swatting someone.
    This is a WTF comment if I have ever seen one. First of all, you are comparing violent games with violent crimes and then comparing a pornographic game with violent crimes. You claim that pornographic game does not lead to violent crimes, but you never once mentioned sexual assault is a result of a pornographic game. If you ever read anything about the serial killer and rapist Ted Bundy, he claims that looking at pornography, particularly necrophiliac pornography as a youth, contributed to the crimes that he committed. Whether you believe that or not, to say a violent game causes violent crimes, but a pornographic game does nothing to a developing mind is ludicrous. It seems like you are justifying your own sick habit.
    I was talking about murder or acts that lead to injury or/and death (in the case of this article). As I said, I have yet to see an article where someone saw a boob and then walked into a mall or a movie theater and shot a bunch of people. I have however seen news articles where violent games have been the cause of the person commiting an act of violence. Or in this case, swatting an innocent person.

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  • tawesstawess Member EpicPosts: 4,185
    Well... More guns in the hands of civilians combined with a strong culture of "home defence" combined with a narrative of might making right.... 

    Yeah... i have no idea of where the image that the US have more shootings than other places could come from. 

    But you are probably right in the regards that numbers are slanted to tell a story that fits said narrative. 


    That does not lessen the fact that every citizen killed by police is a monumental failure... Innocent ones twice so. 
    klash2def

    Tawess gaming

    Tawess soapbox

    This have been a good conversation

  • tawesstawess Member EpicPosts: 4,185

    I was talking about murder or acts that lead to injury or/and death (in the case of this article). As I said, I have yet to see an article where someone saw a boob and then walked into a mall or a movie theater and shot a bunch of people. I have however seen news articles where violent games have been the cause of the person commiting an act of violence. Or in this case, swatting an innocent person.
    Nah... it usually takes a lot less than that... It is called rape... Look it up. 
    Allerleirauh

    Tawess gaming

    Tawess soapbox

    This have been a good conversation

  • TheScavengerTheScavenger Member EpicPosts: 3,321
    tawess said:

    I was talking about murder or acts that lead to injury or/and death (in the case of this article). As I said, I have yet to see an article where someone saw a boob and then walked into a mall or a movie theater and shot a bunch of people. I have however seen news articles where violent games have been the cause of the person commiting an act of violence. Or in this case, swatting an innocent person.
    Nah... it usually takes a lot less than that... It is called rape... Look it up. 
    That has nothing to do with what I said. What you and the other person talked about is completely different to what I am talking about. I am talking about mass murder, like shooting up a movie theater (or recently, the vegas shooting) or swatting someone.

    My Skyrim, Fallout 4, Starbound and WoW + other game mods at MODDB: 

    https://www.moddb.com/mods/skyrim-anime-overhaul



  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Member LegendaryPosts: 8,505
    Quizzical said:
    Asm0deus said:
    Quizzical said:
    Golelorn said:
    My beef is why is SWAT going in guns blazing and not asking serious questions... like "Hey, is this maybe a prank? What does my intuition say?" Instead, they are so trigger happy they really don't care - and "we" do not hold these idiots with guns accountable.

    Absolutely ridiculous a guy is murdered by a SWAT team and these idiots continue to fall for these pranks. SWAT doesn't care. They just want to blast a m-fer.

    The trigger man should be in prison, and the captain(whoever is in charge) should be fired/resign immediately.
    Because sometimes it's not a prank.  In the United States, about 100-200 police officers die on the job each year.  If you're an officer and go into a situation where you're confronting a criminal who will kill you if given a chance, you'd better pull the trigger quickly enough to stop him or you'll be dead.

    Distinguishing between an innocent person in the wrong place at the wrong time, a criminal who will cooperate with an arrest, and a very dangerous criminal who will try to kill the police that confront him is not always easy to do in the heat of the moment.
    That's not an excuse for bad behavior and gross incompetence leading to an innocent getting killed in his doorstep.

    Cops are "suppose" to be trained for these situation and to be able to make these "split second" decisions, they are suppose to follow a higher standard of behavior so they can fulfill their vows to "serve and protect". 

    Sadly what is going in the USA is that far too many officers are putting "their lives" above those they are suppose to be serving and protecting and some people stupidly applaud this in the name of kissing the blues backside.

    They do try to train for it, as well they should.  To take a less politically charged and less important situation, basketball players are trained to make the shots they take.  But they still miss a lot.  Reliably doing everything exactly right even when put into arbitrarily difficult situations is beyond human capabilities.

    Could the training or recruitment be better?  Perhaps, though it's much harder to say it could be made better in this particular way than that there is probably some way that it could be made better.  But few Internet commentators have the expertise to justifiably say that there would be fewer mistakes on all sides if only the training were changed in this or that way.
    The data doesn't lie.  Compared to other countries across the world, police shootings are much higher here in America...  much, much higher.

    Sort of like gun control- some American citizens cannot be convinced of anything they don't wish to believe, no matter how much data or evidence supports it.

    The data is basically crap. Many countries don't report police shootings as crimes, or homicides, or in any way at all. Most of the U.S. statistics come from scouring news reports and are notoriously inaccurate. The FBI UCR doesn't track officer involved shootings but that's due to change this year. So no your statement that police shootings is higher can't be backed up.  It's also misleading to compare the United States to other countries accurately unless you factor in population density, crime rates, and a dozen other factors.  
    The data could be better, but your post stinks of a bias that leads you to completely ignore the data available because it doesn't fit your narrative.

    The best data we have shows a LARGE discrepancy between America and other first world countries.  The data will be improved on the future, and you can go ahead and bet your farm that improved data will completely turn the current trend on its head...  I'll bet my farm that new data supports the currently highlighted trend.
    klash2def

    image
  • AAAMEOWAAAMEOW Member RarePosts: 1,336
    Quizzical said:
    Asm0deus said:
    Quizzical said:
    Golelorn said:
    My beef is why is SWAT going in guns blazing and not asking serious questions... like "Hey, is this maybe a prank? What does my intuition say?" Instead, they are so trigger happy they really don't care - and "we" do not hold these idiots with guns accountable.

    Absolutely ridiculous a guy is murdered by a SWAT team and these idiots continue to fall for these pranks. SWAT doesn't care. They just want to blast a m-fer.

    The trigger man should be in prison, and the captain(whoever is in charge) should be fired/resign immediately.
    Because sometimes it's not a prank.  In the United States, about 100-200 police officers die on the job each year.  If you're an officer and go into a situation where you're confronting a criminal who will kill you if given a chance, you'd better pull the trigger quickly enough to stop him or you'll be dead.

    Distinguishing between an innocent person in the wrong place at the wrong time, a criminal who will cooperate with an arrest, and a very dangerous criminal who will try to kill the police that confront him is not always easy to do in the heat of the moment.
    That's not an excuse for bad behavior and gross incompetence leading to an innocent getting killed in his doorstep.

    Cops are "suppose" to be trained for these situation and to be able to make these "split second" decisions, they are suppose to follow a higher standard of behavior so they can fulfill their vows to "serve and protect". 

    Sadly what is going in the USA is that far too many officers are putting "their lives" above those they are suppose to be serving and protecting and some people stupidly applaud this in the name of kissing the blues backside.

    They do try to train for it, as well they should.  To take a less politically charged and less important situation, basketball players are trained to make the shots they take.  But they still miss a lot.  Reliably doing everything exactly right even when put into arbitrarily difficult situations is beyond human capabilities.

    Could the training or recruitment be better?  Perhaps, though it's much harder to say it could be made better in this particular way than that there is probably some way that it could be made better.  But few Internet commentators have the expertise to justifiably say that there would be fewer mistakes on all sides if only the training were changed in this or that way.
    The data doesn't lie.  Compared to other countries across the world, police shootings are much higher here in America...  much, much higher.

    Sort of like gun control- some American citizens cannot be convinced of anything they don't wish to believe, no matter how much data or evidence supports it.
    Civilian shooting and homicide rate are also much much higher in America.
  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Member LegendaryPosts: 8,505
    AAAMEOW said:
    Quizzical said:
    Asm0deus said:
    Quizzical said:
    Golelorn said:
    My beef is why is SWAT going in guns blazing and not asking serious questions... like "Hey, is this maybe a prank? What does my intuition say?" Instead, they are so trigger happy they really don't care - and "we" do not hold these idiots with guns accountable.

    Absolutely ridiculous a guy is murdered by a SWAT team and these idiots continue to fall for these pranks. SWAT doesn't care. They just want to blast a m-fer.

    The trigger man should be in prison, and the captain(whoever is in charge) should be fired/resign immediately.
    Because sometimes it's not a prank.  In the United States, about 100-200 police officers die on the job each year.  If you're an officer and go into a situation where you're confronting a criminal who will kill you if given a chance, you'd better pull the trigger quickly enough to stop him or you'll be dead.

    Distinguishing between an innocent person in the wrong place at the wrong time, a criminal who will cooperate with an arrest, and a very dangerous criminal who will try to kill the police that confront him is not always easy to do in the heat of the moment.
    That's not an excuse for bad behavior and gross incompetence leading to an innocent getting killed in his doorstep.

    Cops are "suppose" to be trained for these situation and to be able to make these "split second" decisions, they are suppose to follow a higher standard of behavior so they can fulfill their vows to "serve and protect". 

    Sadly what is going in the USA is that far too many officers are putting "their lives" above those they are suppose to be serving and protecting and some people stupidly applaud this in the name of kissing the blues backside.

    They do try to train for it, as well they should.  To take a less politically charged and less important situation, basketball players are trained to make the shots they take.  But they still miss a lot.  Reliably doing everything exactly right even when put into arbitrarily difficult situations is beyond human capabilities.

    Could the training or recruitment be better?  Perhaps, though it's much harder to say it could be made better in this particular way than that there is probably some way that it could be made better.  But few Internet commentators have the expertise to justifiably say that there would be fewer mistakes on all sides if only the training were changed in this or that way.
    The data doesn't lie.  Compared to other countries across the world, police shootings are much higher here in America...  much, much higher.

    Sort of like gun control- some American citizens cannot be convinced of anything they don't wish to believe, no matter how much data or evidence supports it.
    Civilian shooting and homicide rate are also much much higher in America.
    Yet, when someone suggests gun control (something shown here and abroad to be effective at lowering civilian shooting homicide rates), people lose their minds about how it won't do any good.

    As I said before, some Americans have been trained to believe what they want no matter the facts to say otherwise, because the facts come from "them" and not "us."

    image
  • AllerleirauhAllerleirauh Member UncommonPosts: 496
    edited December 2017
    shaddy33 said:
    This goes to show, violent video games lead to violent actions. But porn and porn games have never led to murder.

    Looking at a nude body has never messed up someones mind so much where they will commit murder, like people who are really young and play very violent games and their brains grow into thinking violence is okay. 

    I remember seeing a movie years ago, and a family had their young kids (dunno exact age, looked like elementary kids) and they were laughing and clapping during the scenes where heads and body parts were being chopped off with blood everywhere. But then a boob popped out, they made a loud gasp sound and walked out of the theater with the kids. As they walked out I shouted at them and laughed at how hypocritical they were.

    But violent video games are even worse for kids because they are actually commiting violent actions through the games. Yet, the kid can see heads being blown up with blood everywhere...but...OH NO A BOOB
    Are you fucking serious?
    I have never seen an article where someone watched porn and then walked out of his house and gunned people down. There has never been a case where they've gone down and commited murder (either through themselves or swatting) just because they saw a boob. 

    I have however seen MANY articles where someone has played very violent games, gone out and shot a bunch of people. Lots of articles. I'm sure a google search would find a whole bunch since its kinda a common occurence, especially if the person started playing violent games at a really early age. A boob however has never made someone go out and go on a killing rampage or swatting someone.
    This is a WTF comment if I have ever seen one. First of all, you are comparing violent games with violent crimes and then comparing a pornographic game with violent crimes. You claim that pornographic game does not lead to violent crimes, but you never once mentioned sexual assault is a result of a pornographic game. If you ever read anything about the serial killer and rapist Ted Bundy, he claims that looking at pornography, particularly necrophiliac pornography as a youth, contributed to the crimes that he committed. Whether you believe that or not, to say a violent game causes violent crimes, but a pornographic game does nothing to a developing mind is ludicrous. It seems like you are justifying your own sick habit.
    I was talking about murder or acts that lead to injury or/and death (in the case of this article). As I said, I have yet to see an article where someone saw a boob and then walked into a mall or a movie theater and shot a bunch of people. I have however seen news articles where violent games have been the cause of the person commiting an act of violence. Or in this case, swatting an innocent person.
    I agree with @zymurgeist, even though swatting is a crime, it's not a violent act. So it's irrelevant whether the game that they are playing is violent or not. Some gamers think swatting is funny and some sort of a joke. It was just in this situation that swatting turned deadly. I don't even think the person involved in this situation thought that it would turn deadly. Who can anticipate on something like this happening? I still believe that the person should be accountable for this crime; that resulted in this man's death.
    Currently Playing: Path of Exile

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  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Member LegendaryPosts: 8,505
    shaddy33 said:
    This goes to show, violent video games lead to violent actions. But porn and porn games have never led to murder.

    Looking at a nude body has never messed up someones mind so much where they will commit murder, like people who are really young and play very violent games and their brains grow into thinking violence is okay. 

    I remember seeing a movie years ago, and a family had their young kids (dunno exact age, looked like elementary kids) and they were laughing and clapping during the scenes where heads and body parts were being chopped off with blood everywhere. But then a boob popped out, they made a loud gasp sound and walked out of the theater with the kids. As they walked out I shouted at them and laughed at how hypocritical they were.

    But violent video games are even worse for kids because they are actually commiting violent actions through the games. Yet, the kid can see heads being blown up with blood everywhere...but...OH NO A BOOB
    Are you fucking serious?
    I have never seen an article where someone watched porn and then walked out of his house and gunned people down. There has never been a case where they've gone down and commited murder (either through themselves or swatting) just because they saw a boob. 

    I have however seen MANY articles where someone has played very violent games, gone out and shot a bunch of people. Lots of articles. I'm sure a google search would find a whole bunch since its kinda a common occurence, especially if the person started playing violent games at a really early age. A boob however has never made someone go out and go on a killing rampage or swatting someone.
    This is a WTF comment if I have ever seen one. First of all, you are comparing violent games with violent crimes and then comparing a pornographic game with violent crimes. You claim that pornographic game does not lead to violent crimes, but you never once mentioned sexual assault is a result of a pornographic game. If you ever read anything about the serial killer and rapist Ted Bundy, he claims that looking at pornography, particularly necrophiliac pornography as a youth, contributed to the crimes that he committed. Whether you believe that or not, to say a violent game causes violent crimes, but a pornographic game does nothing to a developing mind is ludicrous. It seems like you are justifying your own sick habit.
    I was talking about murder or acts that lead to injury or/and death (in the case of this article). As I said, I have yet to see an article where someone saw a boob and then walked into a mall or a movie theater and shot a bunch of people. I have however seen news articles where violent games have been the cause of the person commiting an act of violence. Or in this case, swatting an innocent person.
    I agree with @zymurgeist, even though swatting is a crime, it's not a violent act. So it's irrelevant whether the game that they are playing is violent or not. Some gamers think swatting is funny and some sort of a joke. It was just in this situation that swatting turned deadly. I don't even think the person involved in this situation thought that it would turn deadly. Who can anticipate on something like this happening? I still believe that the person should be accountable for this crime; that resulted in this man's death.
    Swatting involves calling in such situations as a murder or hostage situation.  Yes, who could anticipate someone might die in those situations?

    image
  • zymurgeistzymurgeist Member RarePosts: 5,484
    tawess said:
    Well... More guns in the hands of civilians combined with a strong culture of "home defence" combined with a narrative of might making right.... 

    Yeah... i have no idea of where the image that the US have more shootings than other places could come from. 

    But you are probably right in the regards that numbers are slanted to tell a story that fits said narrative. 


    That does not lessen the fact that every citizen killed by police is a monumental failure... Innocent ones twice so. 

    I have no problems with justified shootings. No more than I have with justified knifings, bludgeonings or any other means of self defense. Once you weed out the suicides and justifiable shootings the vast majority of shootings are ordinary drug crimes. Guns don't cause crime criminals do. 

    "We have met the enemy and he is us." ~Pogo Possum. 

  • FlyByKnightFlyByKnight Member EpicPosts: 3,967
    Good parts of a broken system are irrelevant. Talking about "good cops" after they get finished murdering a civilian is pointless. They don't operate independently. They are under the order and training of a biased system that believes it is an order/brotherhood that supersedes the public that pays their salaries. Uniformed police in the US are trained terribly and are getting worse. They are NOT public servants. Certain communities have been aware of this much longer than others but now it transcends cultural/political lines.

    If you have to call 911 you should be expecting a first responder akin to firemen, ambulance, or social worker. Not a deathly scared terribly trained executioner who will end up murdering your mouthy knife wielding wife, drunk uncle, special needs cousin, black friend, or loyal family dog because "making it home at any cost" is the priority. That's not what the fuck our tax dollars pay for.

    klash2defbonzoso21Asm0deus
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    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  • klash2defklash2def Member EpicPosts: 1,734
    Good parts of a broken system are irrelevant. Talking about "good cops" after they get finished murdering a civilian is pointless. They don't operate independently. They are under the order and training of a biased system that believes it is an order/brotherhood that supersedes the public that pays their salaries. Uniformed police in the US are trained terribly and are getting worse. They are NOT public servants. Certain communities have been aware of this much longer than others but now it transcends cultural/political lines.

    If you have to call 911 you should be expecting a first responder akin to firemen, ambulance, or social worker. Not a deathly scared terribly trained executioner who will end up murdering your mouthy knife wielding wife, drunk uncle, special needs cousin, black friend, or loyal family dog because "making it home at any cost" is the priority. That's not what the fuck our tax dollars pay for.

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  • AllerleirauhAllerleirauh Member UncommonPosts: 496
    edited December 2017
    shaddy33 said:
    This goes to show, violent video games lead to violent actions. But porn and porn games have never led to murder.

    Looking at a nude body has never messed up someones mind so much where they will commit murder, like people who are really young and play very violent games and their brains grow into thinking violence is okay. 

    I remember seeing a movie years ago, and a family had their young kids (dunno exact age, looked like elementary kids) and they were laughing and clapping during the scenes where heads and body parts were being chopped off with blood everywhere. But then a boob popped out, they made a loud gasp sound and walked out of the theater with the kids. As they walked out I shouted at them and laughed at how hypocritical they were.

    But violent video games are even worse for kids because they are actually commiting violent actions through the games. Yet, the kid can see heads being blown up with blood everywhere...but...OH NO A BOOB
    Are you fucking serious?
    I have never seen an article where someone watched porn and then walked out of his house and gunned people down. There has never been a case where they've gone down and commited murder (either through themselves or swatting) just because they saw a boob. 

    I have however seen MANY articles where someone has played very violent games, gone out and shot a bunch of people. Lots of articles. I'm sure a google search would find a whole bunch since its kinda a common occurence, especially if the person started playing violent games at a really early age. A boob however has never made someone go out and go on a killing rampage or swatting someone.
    This is a WTF comment if I have ever seen one. First of all, you are comparing violent games with violent crimes and then comparing a pornographic game with violent crimes. You claim that pornographic game does not lead to violent crimes, but you never once mentioned sexual assault is a result of a pornographic game. If you ever read anything about the serial killer and rapist Ted Bundy, he claims that looking at pornography, particularly necrophiliac pornography as a youth, contributed to the crimes that he committed. Whether you believe that or not, to say a violent game causes violent crimes, but a pornographic game does nothing to a developing mind is ludicrous. It seems like you are justifying your own sick habit.
    I was talking about murder or acts that lead to injury or/and death (in the case of this article). As I said, I have yet to see an article where someone saw a boob and then walked into a mall or a movie theater and shot a bunch of people. I have however seen news articles where violent games have been the cause of the person commiting an act of violence. Or in this case, swatting an innocent person.
    I agree with @zymurgeist, even though swatting is a crime, it's not a violent act. So it's irrelevant whether the game that they are playing is violent or not. Some gamers think swatting is funny and some sort of a joke. It was just in this situation that swatting turned deadly. I don't even think the person involved in this situation thought that it would turn deadly. Who can anticipate on something like this happening? I still believe that the person should be accountable for this crime; that resulted in this man's death.
    Swatting involves calling in such situations as a murder or hostage situation.  Yes, who could anticipate someone might die in those situations?
    I realize that but if you have watched videos of swatting you will see that the people calling in are underaged, and are very immature. I have seen a YouTuber "Kootra" squatted as he was live on Twitch, and they all thought it was hilarious. These were definitely not mature individuals. It's still not an excuse though.
    MadFrenchie
    Currently Playing: Path of Exile

    "I have found a desire within myself that no experience in this world can satisfy; the most probable explanation is that I was made for another world." ~ C. S. Lewis
  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Member LegendaryPosts: 8,505
    shaddy33 said:
    This goes to show, violent video games lead to violent actions. But porn and porn games have never led to murder.

    Looking at a nude body has never messed up someones mind so much where they will commit murder, like people who are really young and play very violent games and their brains grow into thinking violence is okay. 

    I remember seeing a movie years ago, and a family had their young kids (dunno exact age, looked like elementary kids) and they were laughing and clapping during the scenes where heads and body parts were being chopped off with blood everywhere. But then a boob popped out, they made a loud gasp sound and walked out of the theater with the kids. As they walked out I shouted at them and laughed at how hypocritical they were.

    But violent video games are even worse for kids because they are actually commiting violent actions through the games. Yet, the kid can see heads being blown up with blood everywhere...but...OH NO A BOOB
    Are you fucking serious?
    I have never seen an article where someone watched porn and then walked out of his house and gunned people down. There has never been a case where they've gone down and commited murder (either through themselves or swatting) just because they saw a boob. 

    I have however seen MANY articles where someone has played very violent games, gone out and shot a bunch of people. Lots of articles. I'm sure a google search would find a whole bunch since its kinda a common occurence, especially if the person started playing violent games at a really early age. A boob however has never made someone go out and go on a killing rampage or swatting someone.
    This is a WTF comment if I have ever seen one. First of all, you are comparing violent games with violent crimes and then comparing a pornographic game with violent crimes. You claim that pornographic game does not lead to violent crimes, but you never once mentioned sexual assault is a result of a pornographic game. If you ever read anything about the serial killer and rapist Ted Bundy, he claims that looking at pornography, particularly necrophiliac pornography as a youth, contributed to the crimes that he committed. Whether you believe that or not, to say a violent game causes violent crimes, but a pornographic game does nothing to a developing mind is ludicrous. It seems like you are justifying your own sick habit.
    I was talking about murder or acts that lead to injury or/and death (in the case of this article). As I said, I have yet to see an article where someone saw a boob and then walked into a mall or a movie theater and shot a bunch of people. I have however seen news articles where violent games have been the cause of the person commiting an act of violence. Or in this case, swatting an innocent person.
    I agree with @zymurgeist, even though swatting is a crime, it's not a violent act. So it's irrelevant whether the game that they are playing is violent or not. Some gamers think swatting is funny and some sort of a joke. It was just in this situation that swatting turned deadly. I don't even think the person involved in this situation thought that it would turn deadly. Who can anticipate on something like this happening? I still believe that the person should be accountable for this crime; that resulted in this man's death.
    Swatting involves calling in such situations as a murder or hostage situation.  Yes, who could anticipate someone might die in those situations?
    I realize that but have you have watched videos of swatting you will see that the people calling in are underaged, and are very immature. I have seen a YouTuber "Kootra" squatted as he was live on Twitch, and they all thought it was hilarious. These were definitely not mature individuals. It's still not an excuse though.
    Absolutely.  Unfortunately, the power of the internet has created a situation where such immaturity has irreovocable effects on the lives of others.

    In this instance, the swatter claimed someone had already been shot in the head, others were being held hostage, and the house had been doused with gasoline in preparation for the setting of a fire.  That's a very serious situation that often leads to police ending a suspect's life.

    The cops didn't show good restraint, and the caller certainly seems guilty of involuntary manslaughter.
    Allerleirauh

    image
  • HorusraHorusra Member EpicPosts: 4,181
    The sheer idiocy in this thread is astounding.  The media propaganda you guys taken in and believe would make Goebbels drunk with merriment.  
    MadFrenchieAllerleirauhFlyByKnightCryomatrixDakeru
  • zymurgeistzymurgeist Member RarePosts: 5,484
    Quizzical said:
    Asm0deus said:
    Quizzical said:
    Golelorn said:
    My beef is why is SWAT going in guns blazing and not asking serious questions... like "Hey, is this maybe a prank? What does my intuition say?" Instead, they are so trigger happy they really don't care - and "we" do not hold these idiots with guns accountable.

    Absolutely ridiculous a guy is murdered by a SWAT team and these idiots continue to fall for these pranks. SWAT doesn't care. They just want to blast a m-fer.

    The trigger man should be in prison, and the captain(whoever is in charge) should be fired/resign immediately.
    Because sometimes it's not a prank.  In the United States, about 100-200 police officers die on the job each year.  If you're an officer and go into a situation where you're confronting a criminal who will kill you if given a chance, you'd better pull the trigger quickly enough to stop him or you'll be dead.

    Distinguishing between an innocent person in the wrong place at the wrong time, a criminal who will cooperate with an arrest, and a very dangerous criminal who will try to kill the police that confront him is not always easy to do in the heat of the moment.
    That's not an excuse for bad behavior and gross incompetence leading to an innocent getting killed in his doorstep.

    Cops are "suppose" to be trained for these situation and to be able to make these "split second" decisions, they are suppose to follow a higher standard of behavior so they can fulfill their vows to "serve and protect". 

    Sadly what is going in the USA is that far too many officers are putting "their lives" above those they are suppose to be serving and protecting and some people stupidly applaud this in the name of kissing the blues backside.

    They do try to train for it, as well they should.  To take a less politically charged and less important situation, basketball players are trained to make the shots they take.  But they still miss a lot.  Reliably doing everything exactly right even when put into arbitrarily difficult situations is beyond human capabilities.

    Could the training or recruitment be better?  Perhaps, though it's much harder to say it could be made better in this particular way than that there is probably some way that it could be made better.  But few Internet commentators have the expertise to justifiably say that there would be fewer mistakes on all sides if only the training were changed in this or that way.
    The data doesn't lie.  Compared to other countries across the world, police shootings are much higher here in America...  much, much higher.

    Sort of like gun control- some American citizens cannot be convinced of anything they don't wish to believe, no matter how much data or evidence supports it.

    The data is basically crap. Many countries don't report police shootings as crimes, or homicides, or in any way at all. Most of the U.S. statistics come from scouring news reports and are notoriously inaccurate. The FBI UCR doesn't track officer involved shootings but that's due to change this year. So no your statement that police shootings is higher can't be backed up.  It's also misleading to compare the United States to other countries accurately unless you factor in population density, crime rates, and a dozen other factors.  
    The data could be better, but your post stinks of a bias that leads you to completely ignore the data available because it doesn't fit your narrative.

    The best data we have shows a LARGE discrepancy between America and other first world countries.  The data will be improved on the future, and you can go ahead and bet your farm that improved data will completely turn the current trend on its head...  I'll bet my farm that new data supports the currently highlighted trend.

    Not borne out by the current data. Don't know means don't know, not jump to  a conclusion and expect to be believed. It also doesn't mean you're free to beg the question of is it usually the fault of the police or the citizens?  Are there other factors involved? There's no bias to the question. 

    "We have met the enemy and he is us." ~Pogo Possum. 

  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Member LegendaryPosts: 8,505
    Horusra said:
    The sheer idiocy in this thread is astounding.  The media propaganda you guys taken in and believe would make Goebbels drunk with merriment.  
    How utterly ironic.
    Torvalklash2defDakeruAsm0deus

    image
  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Member LegendaryPosts: 8,505
    Quizzical said:
    Asm0deus said:
    Quizzical said:
    Golelorn said:
    My beef is why is SWAT going in guns blazing and not asking serious questions... like "Hey, is this maybe a prank? What does my intuition say?" Instead, they are so trigger happy they really don't care - and "we" do not hold these idiots with guns accountable.

    Absolutely ridiculous a guy is murdered by a SWAT team and these idiots continue to fall for these pranks. SWAT doesn't care. They just want to blast a m-fer.

    The trigger man should be in prison, and the captain(whoever is in charge) should be fired/resign immediately.
    Because sometimes it's not a prank.  In the United States, about 100-200 police officers die on the job each year.  If you're an officer and go into a situation where you're confronting a criminal who will kill you if given a chance, you'd better pull the trigger quickly enough to stop him or you'll be dead.

    Distinguishing between an innocent person in the wrong place at the wrong time, a criminal who will cooperate with an arrest, and a very dangerous criminal who will try to kill the police that confront him is not always easy to do in the heat of the moment.
    That's not an excuse for bad behavior and gross incompetence leading to an innocent getting killed in his doorstep.

    Cops are "suppose" to be trained for these situation and to be able to make these "split second" decisions, they are suppose to follow a higher standard of behavior so they can fulfill their vows to "serve and protect". 

    Sadly what is going in the USA is that far too many officers are putting "their lives" above those they are suppose to be serving and protecting and some people stupidly applaud this in the name of kissing the blues backside.

    They do try to train for it, as well they should.  To take a less politically charged and less important situation, basketball players are trained to make the shots they take.  But they still miss a lot.  Reliably doing everything exactly right even when put into arbitrarily difficult situations is beyond human capabilities.

    Could the training or recruitment be better?  Perhaps, though it's much harder to say it could be made better in this particular way than that there is probably some way that it could be made better.  But few Internet commentators have the expertise to justifiably say that there would be fewer mistakes on all sides if only the training were changed in this or that way.
    The data doesn't lie.  Compared to other countries across the world, police shootings are much higher here in America...  much, much higher.

    Sort of like gun control- some American citizens cannot be convinced of anything they don't wish to believe, no matter how much data or evidence supports it.

    The data is basically crap. Many countries don't report police shootings as crimes, or homicides, or in any way at all. Most of the U.S. statistics come from scouring news reports and are notoriously inaccurate. The FBI UCR doesn't track officer involved shootings but that's due to change this year. So no your statement that police shootings is higher can't be backed up.  It's also misleading to compare the United States to other countries accurately unless you factor in population density, crime rates, and a dozen other factors.  
    The data could be better, but your post stinks of a bias that leads you to completely ignore the data available because it doesn't fit your narrative.

    The best data we have shows a LARGE discrepancy between America and other first world countries.  The data will be improved on the future, and you can go ahead and bet your farm that improved data will completely turn the current trend on its head...  I'll bet my farm that new data supports the currently highlighted trend.

    Not borne out by the current data. Don't know means don't know, not jump to  a conclusion and expect to be believed. It also doesn't mean you're free to beg the question of is it usually the fault of the police or the citizens?  Are there other factors involved? There's no bias to the question. 
    You're acting as if there's been no concerted effort to collect data.  That's the bias that leads you to ignore any data whatsoever, largely I suspect because it doesn't support your narrative.

    Feel free to cite data that refutes the point, and I will consider it.

    image
  • zymurgeistzymurgeist Member RarePosts: 5,484
    shaddy33 said:
    This goes to show, violent video games lead to violent actions. But porn and porn games have never led to murder.

    Looking at a nude body has never messed up someones mind so much where they will commit murder, like people who are really young and play very violent games and their brains grow into thinking violence is okay. 

    I remember seeing a movie years ago, and a family had their young kids (dunno exact age, looked like elementary kids) and they were laughing and clapping during the scenes where heads and body parts were being chopped off with blood everywhere. But then a boob popped out, they made a loud gasp sound and walked out of the theater with the kids. As they walked out I shouted at them and laughed at how hypocritical they were.

    But violent video games are even worse for kids because they are actually commiting violent actions through the games. Yet, the kid can see heads being blown up with blood everywhere...but...OH NO A BOOB
    Are you fucking serious?
    I have never seen an article where someone watched porn and then walked out of his house and gunned people down. There has never been a case where they've gone down and commited murder (either through themselves or swatting) just because they saw a boob. 

    I have however seen MANY articles where someone has played very violent games, gone out and shot a bunch of people. Lots of articles. I'm sure a google search would find a whole bunch since its kinda a common occurence, especially if the person started playing violent games at a really early age. A boob however has never made someone go out and go on a killing rampage or swatting someone.
    This is a WTF comment if I have ever seen one. First of all, you are comparing violent games with violent crimes and then comparing a pornographic game with violent crimes. You claim that pornographic game does not lead to violent crimes, but you never once mentioned sexual assault is a result of a pornographic game. If you ever read anything about the serial killer and rapist Ted Bundy, he claims that looking at pornography, particularly necrophiliac pornography as a youth, contributed to the crimes that he committed. Whether you believe that or not, to say a violent game causes violent crimes, but a pornographic game does nothing to a developing mind is ludicrous. It seems like you are justifying your own sick habit.
    I was talking about murder or acts that lead to injury or/and death (in the case of this article). As I said, I have yet to see an article where someone saw a boob and then walked into a mall or a movie theater and shot a bunch of people. I have however seen news articles where violent games have been the cause of the person commiting an act of violence. Or in this case, swatting an innocent person.
    I agree with @zymurgeist, even though swatting is a crime, it's not a violent act. So it's irrelevant whether the game that they are playing is violent or not. Some gamers think swatting is funny and some sort of a joke. It was just in this situation that swatting turned deadly. I don't even think the person involved in this situation thought that it would turn deadly. Who can anticipate on something like this happening? I still believe that the person should be accountable for this crime; that resulted in this man's death.
    Swatting involves calling in such situations as a murder or hostage situation.  Yes, who could anticipate someone might die in those situations?
    I realize that but have you have watched videos of swatting you will see that the people calling in are underaged, and are very immature. I have seen a YouTuber "Kootra" squatted as he was live on Twitch, and they all thought it was hilarious. These were definitely not mature individuals. It's still not an excuse though.
    Absolutely.  Unfortunately, the power of the internet has created a situation where such immaturity has irreovocable effects on the lives of others.

    In this instance, the swatter claimed someone had already been shot in the head, others were being held hostage, and the house had been doused with gasoline in preparation for the setting of a fire.  That's a very serious situation that often leads to police ending a suspect's life.

    The cops didn't show good restraint, and the caller certainly seems guilty of involuntary manslaughter.

    Bingo. Give the man a kewpie doll. 

    "We have met the enemy and he is us." ~Pogo Possum. 

  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Member LegendaryPosts: 8,505
    shaddy33 said:
    This goes to show, violent video games lead to violent actions. But porn and porn games have never led to murder.

    Looking at a nude body has never messed up someones mind so much where they will commit murder, like people who are really young and play very violent games and their brains grow into thinking violence is okay. 

    I remember seeing a movie years ago, and a family had their young kids (dunno exact age, looked like elementary kids) and they were laughing and clapping during the scenes where heads and body parts were being chopped off with blood everywhere. But then a boob popped out, they made a loud gasp sound and walked out of the theater with the kids. As they walked out I shouted at them and laughed at how hypocritical they were.

    But violent video games are even worse for kids because they are actually commiting violent actions through the games. Yet, the kid can see heads being blown up with blood everywhere...but...OH NO A BOOB
    Are you fucking serious?
    I have never seen an article where someone watched porn and then walked out of his house and gunned people down. There has never been a case where they've gone down and commited murder (either through themselves or swatting) just because they saw a boob. 

    I have however seen MANY articles where someone has played very violent games, gone out and shot a bunch of people. Lots of articles. I'm sure a google search would find a whole bunch since its kinda a common occurence, especially if the person started playing violent games at a really early age. A boob however has never made someone go out and go on a killing rampage or swatting someone.
    This is a WTF comment if I have ever seen one. First of all, you are comparing violent games with violent crimes and then comparing a pornographic game with violent crimes. You claim that pornographic game does not lead to violent crimes, but you never once mentioned sexual assault is a result of a pornographic game. If you ever read anything about the serial killer and rapist Ted Bundy, he claims that looking at pornography, particularly necrophiliac pornography as a youth, contributed to the crimes that he committed. Whether you believe that or not, to say a violent game causes violent crimes, but a pornographic game does nothing to a developing mind is ludicrous. It seems like you are justifying your own sick habit.
    I was talking about murder or acts that lead to injury or/and death (in the case of this article). As I said, I have yet to see an article where someone saw a boob and then walked into a mall or a movie theater and shot a bunch of people. I have however seen news articles where violent games have been the cause of the person commiting an act of violence. Or in this case, swatting an innocent person.
    I agree with @zymurgeist, even though swatting is a crime, it's not a violent act. So it's irrelevant whether the game that they are playing is violent or not. Some gamers think swatting is funny and some sort of a joke. It was just in this situation that swatting turned deadly. I don't even think the person involved in this situation thought that it would turn deadly. Who can anticipate on something like this happening? I still believe that the person should be accountable for this crime; that resulted in this man's death.
    Swatting involves calling in such situations as a murder or hostage situation.  Yes, who could anticipate someone might die in those situations?
    I realize that but have you have watched videos of swatting you will see that the people calling in are underaged, and are very immature. I have seen a YouTuber "Kootra" squatted as he was live on Twitch, and they all thought it was hilarious. These were definitely not mature individuals. It's still not an excuse though.
    Absolutely.  Unfortunately, the power of the internet has created a situation where such immaturity has irreovocable effects on the lives of others.

    In this instance, the swatter claimed someone had already been shot in the head, others were being held hostage, and the house had been doused with gasoline in preparation for the setting of a fire.  That's a very serious situation that often leads to police ending a suspect's life.

    The cops didn't show good restraint, and the caller certainly seems guilty of involuntary manslaughter.

    Bingo. Give the man a kewpie doll. 
    We find common ground after all! ;)

    image
  • HorusraHorusra Member EpicPosts: 4,181
    Horusra said:
    The sheer idiocy in this thread is astounding.  The media propaganda you guys taken in and believe would make Goebbels drunk with merriment.  
    How utterly ironic.

    In a thread spouting the police are out killing unarmed people in hugh numbers unjustly...yes.  Idiocy.  Spurred on by media trying to get eyes on articles with no facts.  The facts are that out of 976 police shootings in 2017 only 68 were unarmed.  As to the comment about shooting a knife wielding family member...yeah they get shot if they do not put it down and approach the officers.  Officers are not paid to die for your idiot family members when they threaten people.  

    As to your gun control.  The US made a decision to have guns a long time ago.  You hate it then go change the Constitution and stop trying to make an end run through legislation.  
    Asm0deusIselin
This discussion has been closed.