Most people don't play games in a competitive manner.
The PvE parts of the games are usually for the COOPERATIVE part, while the PvP elements are for the COMPETITIVE one.
Challenging doesn't require competition. A guild cooperating all together to drop a hard raid boss are having a challenge yet are cooperating, not competing.
That is not entirely true. In PvE they are likely trying to outdo other guilds in some way. It doesn't have to be that way, but usually, competition is the main drive.
Ah yes, you're right, there's the virtual penis competition. Something that started with EQ and contributed in turning MMORPGs into grind hells instead of RPG games. It's true that for some that's important. Sad, but important.
Comedy post? Have you met humanity? Heard of the Olympics? Sports? Other games? Mountain climbing? Triathlons? Even video games while less taxing are still physical. So real penises basically.
look at the real world. we give trophies for participation. what do you think those people will grow into in regards to gaming taste?
People who believe that playing longer entitles them to automatic wins even if they don't use their longer playtime to develop anything in the way of player skills.
If all Triple A companies are like ALL large companies I worked for, this is how they think:
- Lets make an mmo, but make it "easy" and "child like".
<time goes by>
- People don't play our game... "People must not like MMO's" ...Lets stop making them!
That exactly! If you look at most games there is usually at one really stupid thing going on. In MMORPGs there is a lot of stupid stuff going on in the basic template. WoW for the longest time had quests that took much longer to complete in a group than solo, punishing playing with others effectively. It took them about 10 years to partially fix that. Hello McFly! And while some of the devs might know this stupid stuff is going on their report will read like the last line of your post there XD
The real kicker is that single player games have difficulty levels, because, wow, different strokes. But is there any MMO that has this? I mean a really good implementation? I think no. Sure it would be harder to implement, but no where near impossible.
WoW has it at the endgame. Dungeons have 3 difficulties and then Mythic+ which is basically a knob which adds 15 to 20 more difficulty levels. Raids have it, 4 difficulties in raids. Most MMOs with raids and dungeons have an easy / hard difficulty.
I would not count on a difficulty slider for open world content though. That would mean you basically have to maintain several different versions of the same game. It is easy to have that knob in a single player game or even a co-op game, but when you are dealing with 50-100 people per zone potentially it is pretty much impossible
I know about raid difficulties, but they say raiders are what, a percent or 2 of the pop of MMORPGS? ANd that's only at end game.
Totally disagree on it being difficult to do in the open world. Games already can match content to player level, just fiddle that number and you have basic difficulty. Classify powers and frequency of use, time to counter, and you are getting there. More work yes, but you could triple your satisfied customers.
look at the real world. we give trophies for participation. what do you think those people will grow into in regards to gaming taste?
People who believe that playing longer entitles them to automatic wins even if they don't use their longer playtime to develop anything in the way of player skills.
That's still better than people that think they should be able to catch up or get ahead by opening their wallets.
look at the real world. we give trophies for participation. what do you think those people will grow into in regards to gaming taste?
People who believe that playing longer entitles them to automatic wins even if they don't use their longer playtime to develop anything in the way of player skills.
Usually, those people give up a lot in life to play the most. I'm not saying that makes them skilled, but it does show a lot of sacrifice and determination to get through the long grind and learning curves that games with no helpers and tutorials have. On the flip side, a person who jumps in and pays for advancement or can quickly get to max level and geared up doesn't really sacrifice anything. I've been on both sides of the coin and I feel the people who put in the time are giving up a lot more. The most I was ever willing to do was put in a lot of time soloing in early MMOs, but never much grouping or raiding. These days I'm not willing to sacrifice health for a game regardless.
look at the real world. we give trophies for participation. what do you think those people will grow into in regards to gaming taste?
People who believe that playing longer entitles them to automatic wins even if they don't use their longer playtime to develop anything in the way of player skills.
That's still better than people that think they should be able to catch up or get ahead by opening their wallets.
Thieves and conmen men aside, people with money in their wallets usually earned that money by doing something of value to society. Unlike basement dwelling grinders.
look at the real world. we give trophies for participation. what do you think those people will grow into in regards to gaming taste?
People who believe that playing longer entitles them to automatic wins even if they don't use their longer playtime to develop anything in the way of player skills.
Usually, those people give up a lot in life to play the most. I'm not saying that makes them skilled, but it does show a lot of sacrifice and determination to get through the long grind and learning curves that games with no helpers and tutorials have. On the flip side, a person who jumps in and pays for advancement or can quickly get to max level and geared up doesn't really sacrifice anything. I've been on both sides of the coin and I feel the people who put in the time are giving up a lot more. The most I was ever willing to do was put in a lot of time soloing in early MMOs, but never much grouping or raiding. These days I'm not willing to sacrifice health for a game regardless.
Games aren't supposed to be about sacrifice. This isn't an esports conversation. People with less time to play use the service less and pay more. So get used to them getting what they want. And you should be thankful because without them there wouldn't be many games to play.
If all Triple A companies are like ALL large companies I worked for, this is how they think:
- Lets make an mmo, but make it "easy" and "child like".
<time goes by>
- People don't play our game... "People must not like MMO's" ...Lets stop making them!
That exactly! If you look at most games there is usually at one really stupid thing going on. In MMORPGs there is a lot of stupid stuff going on in the basic template. WoW for the longest time had quests that took much longer to complete in a group than solo, punishing playing with others effectively. It took them about 10 years to partially fix that. Hello McFly! And while some of the devs might know this stupid stuff is going on their report will read like the last line of your post there XD
The real kicker is that single player games have difficulty levels, because, wow, different strokes. But is there any MMO that has this? I mean a really good implementation? I think no. Sure it would be harder to implement, but no where near impossible.
WoW has it at the endgame. Dungeons have 3 difficulties and then Mythic+ which is basically a knob which adds 15 to 20 more difficulty levels. Raids have it, 4 difficulties in raids. Most MMOs with raids and dungeons have an easy / hard difficulty.
I would not count on a difficulty slider for open world content though. That would mean you basically have to maintain several different versions of the same game. It is easy to have that knob in a single player game or even a co-op game, but when you are dealing with 50-100 people per zone potentially it is pretty much impossible
I know about raid difficulties, but they say raiders are what, a percent or 2 of the pop of MMORPGS? ANd that's only at end game.
Totally disagree on it being difficult to do in the open world. Games already can match content to player level, just fiddle that number and you have basic difficulty. Classify powers and frequency of use, time to counter, and you are getting there. More work yes, but you could triple your satisfied customers.
So how do you deal with an open world situation where player A wants normal difficulty and player B wants hard difficulty, but they are fighting the same encounter? Also I am not really sure where you are getting your data from. There is no statistical data as to how many people raid. I do think that the amount of focus on dungeons and raids being the primary form of content, the introduction of level boosters and in some cases starter gear at end game runs counter to that. I mean, if you can find raw data on the numbers sure, but I seriously doubt in a world where you can practically go afk and beat raids that 2% of people in WoW raid. Also, as I said, dungeons are a huge part of what players do in the end. End game is VERY easy to get to, even if you have 2 hours a night, in most MMOs now. Especially with level skips..
look at the real world. we give trophies for participation. what do you think those people will grow into in regards to gaming taste?
People who believe that playing longer entitles them to automatic wins even if they don't use their longer playtime to develop anything in the way of player skills.
Usually, those people give up a lot in life to play the most. I'm not saying that makes them skilled, but it does show a lot of sacrifice and determination to get through the long grind and learning curves that games with no helpers and tutorials have. On the flip side, a person who jumps in and pays for advancement or can quickly get to max level and geared up doesn't really sacrifice anything. I've been on both sides of the coin and I feel the people who put in the time are giving up a lot more. The most I was ever willing to do was put in a lot of time soloing in early MMOs, but never much grouping or raiding. These days I'm not willing to sacrifice health for a game regardless.
Games aren't supposed to be about sacrifice. This isn't an esports conversation. People with less time to play use the service less and pay more. So get used to them getting what they want. And you should be thankful because without them there wouldn't be many games to play.
That depends on your perspective. Just because there are more games to play doesn't mean there is more variety or games that suit certain types of peoples play. Obviously, some people liked those games better the way they were and it's because of those people supporting those games that the games today were able to be created for the masses. If those people hadn't paid for those games and spent lots of time in them no one would have built MMOs in the first place and computing in general probably wouldn't have advanced as quickly. Even though there was a much smaller selection of games in the past I know I personally enjoyed those game far more than the ones I play occasionally today.
If all Triple A companies are like ALL large companies I worked for, this is how they think:
- Lets make an mmo, but make it "easy" and "child like".
<time goes by>
- People don't play our game... "People must not like MMO's" ...Lets stop making them!
That exactly! If you look at most games there is usually at one really stupid thing going on. In MMORPGs there is a lot of stupid stuff going on in the basic template. WoW for the longest time had quests that took much longer to complete in a group than solo, punishing playing with others effectively. It took them about 10 years to partially fix that. Hello McFly! And while some of the devs might know this stupid stuff is going on their report will read like the last line of your post there XD
The real kicker is that single player games have difficulty levels, because, wow, different strokes. But is there any MMO that has this? I mean a really good implementation? I think no. Sure it would be harder to implement, but no where near impossible.
WoW has it at the endgame. Dungeons have 3 difficulties and then Mythic+ which is basically a knob which adds 15 to 20 more difficulty levels. Raids have it, 4 difficulties in raids. Most MMOs with raids and dungeons have an easy / hard difficulty.
I would not count on a difficulty slider for open world content though. That would mean you basically have to maintain several different versions of the same game. It is easy to have that knob in a single player game or even a co-op game, but when you are dealing with 50-100 people per zone potentially it is pretty much impossible
I know about raid difficulties, but they say raiders are what, a percent or 2 of the pop of MMORPGS? ANd that's only at end game.
Totally disagree on it being difficult to do in the open world. Games already can match content to player level, just fiddle that number and you have basic difficulty. Classify powers and frequency of use, time to counter, and you are getting there. More work yes, but you could triple your satisfied customers.
So how do you deal with an open world situation where player A wants normal difficulty and player B wants hard difficulty, but they are fighting the same encounter? Also I am not really sure where you are getting your data from. There is no statistical data as to how many people raid. I do think that the amount of focus on dungeons and raids being the primary form of content, the introduction of level boosters and in some cases starter gear at end game runs counter to that. I mean, if you can find raw data on the numbers sure, but I seriously doubt in a world where you can practically go afk and beat raids that 2% of people in WoW raid. Also, as I said, dungeons are a huge part of what players do in the end. End game is VERY easy to get to, even if you have 2 hours a night, in most MMOs now. Especially with level skips..
I already mentioned the basics. Many games already to not take the straight numbers like damage and HP. One Tamriel is doing that. Saying in this area player effective level set to X, and adjusting all their number accordingly. Someone wanting an easy experience could be set to X+3, hard X-3. And the change an enemy will use a certain attack, and the effectiveness of it could all be different based on the target at that moment. Players wanting harder experiences could get more agro. I could keep going, but I'm sure there are even more ways I'm not considering.
As far as the number of raiders, I don't know, it was a question. I heard something to that effect. And that was the number of raiders, not people who might do a raid occasionally. THe point being that it's one limited facet at the end of a game that might never be seen if someone finds the leveling too hard, tedious or boring.
I wouldn't try to fit that idea into a game like WoW though. 90% of that game should be redone
look at the real world. we give trophies for participation. what do you think those people will grow into in regards to gaming taste?
People who believe that playing longer entitles them to automatic wins even if they don't use their longer playtime to develop anything in the way of player skills.
Usually, those people give up a lot in life to play the most. I'm not saying that makes them skilled, but it does show a lot of sacrifice and determination to get through the long grind and learning curves that games with no helpers and tutorials have. On the flip side, a person who jumps in and pays for advancement or can quickly get to max level and geared up doesn't really sacrifice anything. I've been on both sides of the coin and I feel the people who put in the time are giving up a lot more. The most I was ever willing to do was put in a lot of time soloing in early MMOs, but never much grouping or raiding. These days I'm not willing to sacrifice health for a game regardless.
Games aren't supposed to be about sacrifice. This isn't an esports conversation. People with less time to play use the service less and pay more. So get used to them getting what they want. And you should be thankful because without them there wouldn't be many games to play.
That depends on your perspective. Just because there are more games to play doesn't mean there is more variety or games that suit certain types of peoples play. Obviously, some people liked those games better the way they were and it's because of those people supporting those games that the games today were able to be created for the masses. If those people hadn't paid for those games and spent lots of time in them no one would have built MMOs in the first place and computing in general probably wouldn't have advanced as quickly. Even though there was a much smaller selection of games in the past I know I personally enjoyed those game far more than the ones I play occasionally today.
Just because you don't have much time to play games it doesn't mean you aren't hard core, or don't like games that much. And the amount of money people spend on games, not the amount of time people spend on them is what pays for games. Unless you are playing some add funded games that I've never heard of. Those games you played in the past probably had a lot of part-time players that paid for them too. I bet even the people who made them don't have much time to actually play games.
Seeing as you could actually design a game so that the amount of time you had to play didn' t matter, I think the conversation is kinda moot anyway.
If all Triple A companies are like ALL large companies I worked for, this is how they think:
- Lets make an mmo, but make it "easy" and "child like".
<time goes by>
- People don't play our game... "People must not like MMO's" ...Lets stop making them!
That exactly! If you look at most games there is usually at one really stupid thing going on. In MMORPGs there is a lot of stupid stuff going on in the basic template. WoW for the longest time had quests that took much longer to complete in a group than solo, punishing playing with others effectively. It took them about 10 years to partially fix that. Hello McFly! And while some of the devs might know this stupid stuff is going on their report will read like the last line of your post there XD
The real kicker is that single player games have difficulty levels, because, wow, different strokes. But is there any MMO that has this? I mean a really good implementation? I think no. Sure it would be harder to implement, but no where near impossible.
WoW has it at the endgame. Dungeons have 3 difficulties and then Mythic+ which is basically a knob which adds 15 to 20 more difficulty levels. Raids have it, 4 difficulties in raids. Most MMOs with raids and dungeons have an easy / hard difficulty.
I would not count on a difficulty slider for open world content though. That would mean you basically have to maintain several different versions of the same game. It is easy to have that knob in a single player game or even a co-op game, but when you are dealing with 50-100 people per zone potentially it is pretty much impossible
I know about raid difficulties, but they say raiders are what, a percent or 2 of the pop of MMORPGS? ANd that's only at end game.
Totally disagree on it being difficult to do in the open world. Games already can match content to player level, just fiddle that number and you have basic difficulty. Classify powers and frequency of use, time to counter, and you are getting there. More work yes, but you could triple your satisfied customers.
So how do you deal with an open world situation where player A wants normal difficulty and player B wants hard difficulty, but they are fighting the same encounter? Also I am not really sure where you are getting your data from. There is no statistical data as to how many people raid. I do think that the amount of focus on dungeons and raids being the primary form of content, the introduction of level boosters and in some cases starter gear at end game runs counter to that. I mean, if you can find raw data on the numbers sure, but I seriously doubt in a world where you can practically go afk and beat raids that 2% of people in WoW raid. Also, as I said, dungeons are a huge part of what players do in the end. End game is VERY easy to get to, even if you have 2 hours a night, in most MMOs now. Especially with level skips..
I already mentioned the basics. Many games already to not take the straight numbers like damage and HP. One Tamriel is doing that. Saying in this area player effective level set to X, and adjusting all their number accordingly. Someone wanting an easy experience could be set to X+3, hard X-3. And the change an enemy will use a certain attack, and the effectiveness of it could all be different based on the target at that moment. Players wanting harder experiences could get more agro. I could keep going, but I'm sure there are even more ways I'm not considering.
As far as the number of raiders, I don't know, it was a question. I heard something to that effect. And that was the number of raiders, not people who might do a raid occasionally. THe point being that it's one limited facet at the end of a game that might never be seen if someone finds the leveling too hard, tedious or boring.
I wouldn't try to fit that idea into a game like WoW though. 90% of that game should be redone
One Tamriel is not actually doing much scaling in terms of actual creatures. The players are all scaled to level 50 if they are not currently at that level, as that is the creature level of everything in the game now. So all the creatures have the same health for everyone, it is not dynamically scaling the creatures at all. Someone wanting a hard experience while fighting the same creature is a logical impossibility. As that same creature can't have more health and more damage to one guy and less health and damage to another. It is really easy to say that "oh it can do a different attack on different players", but the reality is that won't work. You would have a tank who sets it on easy to take the attacks while someone else who is on hard does the damage. People would get around the system easily.
The only way to do it is have different versions of the same map, which would work in theory, if you had an infinitely funded development team with tons of time to develop multiple versions of the same map. You notice this has never been done before in a game that is a proper MMO? It is because it can't be done. You would effectively be creating and supporting 2 versions of the same game all the time as there would be an expectation that every single map ever introduced has at least 2 difficulty levels.
If you don't know how many people are raiding, don't post data and use it as evidence to back up an argument. Saying "I heard" is the same thing as saying nothing at all without proof to back it up. Also, how would you quantify a raider? Sounds very semantics to me. If someone raids once a week are they a raider? If someone raids once a month are they a raider? I mean, quite frankly, that is likely one of the reasons that we don't have the data as there is no way to quantify what a raider is. I mean, some people complete a raid once and never go back. Are they raiders? This is murky territory here.
Why would WoW need to be redone? I mean hell, it is redone nearly every expansion ;P I know what you mean though, but the reality is that WoW is still the top grossing MMO, so whether you or me like it doesn't really matter. (Dunno about subs since those figures have not been revealed in years, but considering how many sub games are left I would say it is pretty likely they are at least surpassing all the games with F2P options.)
If all Triple A companies are like ALL large companies I worked for, this is how they think:
- Lets make an mmo, but make it "easy" and "child like".
<time goes by>
- People don't play our game... "People must not like MMO's" ...Lets stop making them!
That exactly! If you look at most games there is usually at one really stupid thing going on. In MMORPGs there is a lot of stupid stuff going on in the basic template. WoW for the longest time had quests that took much longer to complete in a group than solo, punishing playing with others effectively. It took them about 10 years to partially fix that. Hello McFly! And while some of the devs might know this stupid stuff is going on their report will read like the last line of your post there XD
The real kicker is that single player games have difficulty levels, because, wow, different strokes. But is there any MMO that has this? I mean a really good implementation? I think no. Sure it would be harder to implement, but no where near impossible.
WoW has it at the endgame. Dungeons have 3 difficulties and then Mythic+ which is basically a knob which adds 15 to 20 more difficulty levels. Raids have it, 4 difficulties in raids. Most MMOs with raids and dungeons have an easy / hard difficulty.
I would not count on a difficulty slider for open world content though. That would mean you basically have to maintain several different versions of the same game. It is easy to have that knob in a single player game or even a co-op game, but when you are dealing with 50-100 people per zone potentially it is pretty much impossible
I know about raid difficulties, but they say raiders are what, a percent or 2 of the pop of MMORPGS? ANd that's only at end game.
Totally disagree on it being difficult to do in the open world. Games already can match content to player level, just fiddle that number and you have basic difficulty. Classify powers and frequency of use, time to counter, and you are getting there. More work yes, but you could triple your satisfied customers.
So how do you deal with an open world situation where player A wants normal difficulty and player B wants hard difficulty, but they are fighting the same encounter? Also I am not really sure where you are getting your data from. There is no statistical data as to how many people raid. I do think that the amount of focus on dungeons and raids being the primary form of content, the introduction of level boosters and in some cases starter gear at end game runs counter to that. I mean, if you can find raw data on the numbers sure, but I seriously doubt in a world where you can practically go afk and beat raids that 2% of people in WoW raid. Also, as I said, dungeons are a huge part of what players do in the end. End game is VERY easy to get to, even if you have 2 hours a night, in most MMOs now. Especially with level skips..
I already mentioned the basics. Many games already to not take the straight numbers like damage and HP. One Tamriel is doing that. Saying in this area player effective level set to X, and adjusting all their number accordingly. Someone wanting an easy experience could be set to X+3, hard X-3. And the change an enemy will use a certain attack, and the effectiveness of it could all be different based on the target at that moment. Players wanting harder experiences could get more agro. I could keep going, but I'm sure there are even more ways I'm not considering.
As far as the number of raiders, I don't know, it was a question. I heard something to that effect. And that was the number of raiders, not people who might do a raid occasionally. THe point being that it's one limited facet at the end of a game that might never be seen if someone finds the leveling too hard, tedious or boring.
I wouldn't try to fit that idea into a game like WoW though. 90% of that game should be redone
One Tamriel is not actually doing much scaling in terms of actual creatures. The players are all scaled to level 50 if they are not currently at that level, as that is the creature level of everything in the game now. So all the creatures have the same health for everyone, it is not dynamically scaling the creatures at all. Someone wanting a hard experience while fighting the same creature is a logical impossibility. As that same creature can't have more health and more damage to one guy and less health and damage to another. It is really easy to say that "oh it can do a different attack on different players", but the reality is that won't work. You would have a tank who sets it on easy to take the attacks while someone else who is on hard does the damage. People would get around the system easily.
The only way to do it is have different versions of the same map, which would work in theory, if you had an infinitely funded development team with tons of time to develop multiple versions of the same map. You notice this has never been done before in a game that is a proper MMO? It is because it can't be done. You would effectively be creating and supporting 2 versions of the same game all the time as there would be an expectation that every single map ever introduced has at least 2 difficulty levels.
If you don't know how many people are raiding, don't post data and use it as evidence to back up an argument. Saying "I heard" is the same thing as saying nothing at all without proof to back it up. Also, how would you quantify a raider? Sounds very semantics to me. If someone raids once a week are they a raider? If someone raids once a month are they a raider? I mean, quite frankly, that is likely one of the reasons that we don't have the data as there is no way to quantify what a raider is. I mean, some people complete a raid once and never go back. Are they raiders? This is murky territory here.
Why would WoW need to be redone? I mean hell, it is redone nearly every expansion ;P I know what you mean though, but the reality is that WoW is still the top grossing MMO, so whether you or me like it doesn't really matter. (Dunno about subs since those figures have not been revealed in years, but considering how many sub games are left I would say it is pretty likely they are at least surpassing all the games with F2P options.)
Actually you could have all mobs in am area a set level, the mob does the same attacks with the same damage but the player can have a damage modifier so the incoming damage is multiplied.
Also when you form a group the encounter slider is set by the group leader no individuals.
If all Triple A companies are like ALL large companies I worked for, this is how they think:
- Lets make an mmo, but make it "easy" and "child like".
<time goes by>
- People don't play our game... "People must not like MMO's" ...Lets stop making them!
That exactly! If you look at most games there is usually at one really stupid thing going on. In MMORPGs there is a lot of stupid stuff going on in the basic template. WoW for the longest time had quests that took much longer to complete in a group than solo, punishing playing with others effectively. It took them about 10 years to partially fix that. Hello McFly! And while some of the devs might know this stupid stuff is going on their report will read like the last line of your post there XD
The real kicker is that single player games have difficulty levels, because, wow, different strokes. But is there any MMO that has this? I mean a really good implementation? I think no. Sure it would be harder to implement, but no where near impossible.
WoW has it at the endgame. Dungeons have 3 difficulties and then Mythic+ which is basically a knob which adds 15 to 20 more difficulty levels. Raids have it, 4 difficulties in raids. Most MMOs with raids and dungeons have an easy / hard difficulty.
I would not count on a difficulty slider for open world content though. That would mean you basically have to maintain several different versions of the same game. It is easy to have that knob in a single player game or even a co-op game, but when you are dealing with 50-100 people per zone potentially it is pretty much impossible
I know about raid difficulties, but they say raiders are what, a percent or 2 of the pop of MMORPGS? ANd that's only at end game.
Totally disagree on it being difficult to do in the open world. Games already can match content to player level, just fiddle that number and you have basic difficulty. Classify powers and frequency of use, time to counter, and you are getting there. More work yes, but you could triple your satisfied customers.
So how do you deal with an open world situation where player A wants normal difficulty and player B wants hard difficulty, but they are fighting the same encounter? Also I am not really sure where you are getting your data from. There is no statistical data as to how many people raid. I do think that the amount of focus on dungeons and raids being the primary form of content, the introduction of level boosters and in some cases starter gear at end game runs counter to that. I mean, if you can find raw data on the numbers sure, but I seriously doubt in a world where you can practically go afk and beat raids that 2% of people in WoW raid. Also, as I said, dungeons are a huge part of what players do in the end. End game is VERY easy to get to, even if you have 2 hours a night, in most MMOs now. Especially with level skips..
I already mentioned the basics. Many games already to not take the straight numbers like damage and HP. One Tamriel is doing that. Saying in this area player effective level set to X, and adjusting all their number accordingly. Someone wanting an easy experience could be set to X+3, hard X-3. And the change an enemy will use a certain attack, and the effectiveness of it could all be different based on the target at that moment. Players wanting harder experiences could get more agro. I could keep going, but I'm sure there are even more ways I'm not considering.
As far as the number of raiders, I don't know, it was a question. I heard something to that effect. And that was the number of raiders, not people who might do a raid occasionally. THe point being that it's one limited facet at the end of a game that might never be seen if someone finds the leveling too hard, tedious or boring.
I wouldn't try to fit that idea into a game like WoW though. 90% of that game should be redone
One Tamriel is not actually doing much scaling in terms of actual creatures. The players are all scaled to level 50 if they are not currently at that level, as that is the creature level of everything in the game now. So all the creatures have the same health for everyone, it is not dynamically scaling the creatures at all. Someone wanting a hard experience while fighting the same creature is a logical impossibility. As that same creature can't have more health and more damage to one guy and less health and damage to another. It is really easy to say that "oh it can do a different attack on different players", but the reality is that won't work. You would have a tank who sets it on easy to take the attacks while someone else who is on hard does the damage. People would get around the system easily.
The only way to do it is have different versions of the same map, which would work in theory, if you had an infinitely funded development team with tons of time to develop multiple versions of the same map. You notice this has never been done before in a game that is a proper MMO? It is because it can't be done. You would effectively be creating and supporting 2 versions of the same game all the time as there would be an expectation that every single map ever introduced has at least 2 difficulty levels.
If you don't know how many people are raiding, don't post data and use it as evidence to back up an argument. Saying "I heard" is the same thing as saying nothing at all without proof to back it up. Also, how would you quantify a raider? Sounds very semantics to me. If someone raids once a week are they a raider? If someone raids once a month are they a raider? I mean, quite frankly, that is likely one of the reasons that we don't have the data as there is no way to quantify what a raider is. I mean, some people complete a raid once and never go back. Are they raiders? This is murky territory here.
Why would WoW need to be redone? I mean hell, it is redone nearly every expansion ;P I know what you mean though, but the reality is that WoW is still the top grossing MMO, so whether you or me like it doesn't really matter. (Dunno about subs since those figures have not been revealed in years, but considering how many sub games are left I would say it is pretty likely they are at least surpassing all the games with F2P options.)
Actually you could have all mobs in am area a set level, the mob does the same attacks with the same damage but the player can have a damage modifier so the incoming damage is multiplied.
Also when you form a group the encounter slider is set by the group leader no individuals.
So what happens when a solo player runs up to tank the creature outside the group :P
One Tamriel is not actually doing much scaling in terms of actual creatures. The players are all scaled to level 50 if they are not currently at that level, as that is the creature level of everything in the game now. So all the creatures have the same health for everyone, it is not dynamically scaling the creatures at all. Someone wanting a hard experience while fighting the same creature is a logical impossibility. As that same creature can't have more health and more damage to one guy and less health and damage to another. It is really easy to say that "oh it can do a different attack on different players", but the reality is that won't work. You would have a tank who sets it on easy to take the attacks while someone else who is on hard does the damage. People would get around the system easily.
The only way to do it is have different versions of the same map, which would work in theory, if you had an infinitely funded development team with tons of time to develop multiple versions of the same map. You notice this has never been done before in a game that is a proper MMO? It is because it can't be done. You would effectively be creating and supporting 2 versions of the same game all the time as there would be an expectation that every single map ever introduced has at least 2 difficulty levels.
If you don't know how many people are raiding, don't post data and use it as evidence to back up an argument. Saying "I heard" is the same thing as saying nothing at all without proof to back it up. Also, how would you quantify a raider? Sounds very semantics to me. If someone raids once a week are they a raider? If someone raids once a month are they a raider? I mean, quite frankly, that is likely one of the reasons that we don't have the data as there is no way to quantify what a raider is. I mean, some people complete a raid once and never go back. Are they raiders? This is murky territory here.
Why would WoW need to be redone? I mean hell, it is redone nearly every expansion ;P I know what you mean though, but the reality is that WoW is still the top grossing MMO, so whether you or me like it doesn't really matter. (Dunno about subs since those figures have not been revealed in years, but considering how many sub games are left I would say it is pretty likely they are at least surpassing all the games with F2P options.)
Actually you could have all mobs in am area a set level, the mob does the same attacks with the same damage but the player can have a damage modifier so the incoming damage is multiplied.
Also when you form a group the encounter slider is set by the group leader no individuals.
So what happens when a solo player runs up to tank the creature outside the group :P
I'm suggesting difficulty for the player, not for his role, so a tank set on easy could survive well, but the dps player set on hard would find it very easy to pull agro, and that the mob was saving his nastiest attack for him to do just that I had forgotten how One Tamriel works, so my bad, maybe I should have said GW 2. I'm 100% confident I could work out a good system that's hard to exploit. I won't say impossible. It would, of course, take multiple iterations to get it right.
One Tamriel is not actually doing much scaling in terms of actual creatures. The players are all scaled to level 50 if they are not currently at that level, as that is the creature level of everything in the game now. So all the creatures have the same health for everyone, it is not dynamically scaling the creatures at all. Someone wanting a hard experience while fighting the same creature is a logical impossibility. As that same creature can't have more health and more damage to one guy and less health and damage to another. It is really easy to say that "oh it can do a different attack on different players", but the reality is that won't work. You would have a tank who sets it on easy to take the attacks while someone else who is on hard does the damage. People would get around the system easily.
The only way to do it is have different versions of the same map, which would work in theory, if you had an infinitely funded development team with tons of time to develop multiple versions of the same map. You notice this has never been done before in a game that is a proper MMO? It is because it can't be done. You would effectively be creating and supporting 2 versions of the same game all the time as there would be an expectation that every single map ever introduced has at least 2 difficulty levels.
If you don't know how many people are raiding, don't post data and use it as evidence to back up an argument. Saying "I heard" is the same thing as saying nothing at all without proof to back it up. Also, how would you quantify a raider? Sounds very semantics to me. If someone raids once a week are they a raider? If someone raids once a month are they a raider? I mean, quite frankly, that is likely one of the reasons that we don't have the data as there is no way to quantify what a raider is. I mean, some people complete a raid once and never go back. Are they raiders? This is murky territory here.
Why would WoW need to be redone? I mean hell, it is redone nearly every expansion ;P I know what you mean though, but the reality is that WoW is still the top grossing MMO, so whether you or me like it doesn't really matter. (Dunno about subs since those figures have not been revealed in years, but considering how many sub games are left I would say it is pretty likely they are at least surpassing all the games with F2P options.)
Actually you could have all mobs in am area a set level, the mob does the same attacks with the same damage but the player can have a damage modifier so the incoming damage is multiplied.
Also when you form a group the encounter slider is set by the group leader no individuals.
So what happens when a solo player runs up to tank the creature outside the group :P
I'm suggesting difficulty for the player, not for his role, so a tank set on easy could survive well, but the dps player set on hard would find it very easy to pull agro, and that the mob was saving his nastiest attack for him to do just that I had forgotten how One Tamriel works, so my bad, maybe I should have said GW 2. I'm 100% confident I could work out a good system that's hard to exploit. I won't say impossible. It would, of course, take multiple iterations to get it right.
So you are suggesting a dynamically scaling aggro system? Welp, I am done...lol
The best solution to this "problem" for people who think it is one, is to have specific end game zones that are hard open world zones for people who want to participate. All these weird gimmicky programmatic solutions seem a little much for something that can be done by simply equipping a couple of gear pieces to make things harder
Even video games while less taxing are still physical.
Yeah, sitting on one's ass in a basement playing a MMORPG all day long is very physical.
Hay..... We agree
You may laugh, but sitting on your butt all day is actually more punishing to the body than exercising all day. Especially if you are drinking soda and eating junk food. You will be in a world of hurt. I've been there before when I was young and though fun at times it was a painful experience. Luckily I was never obese despite it because I seem to have difficulty putting on weight in general.
Even video games while less taxing are still physical.
Yeah, sitting on one's ass in a basement playing a MMORPG all day long is very physical.
Hay..... We agree
You may laugh, but sitting on your butt all day is actually more punishing to the body than exercising all day. Especially if you are drinking soda and eating junk food. You will be in a world of hurt. I've been there before when I was young and though fun at times it was a painful experience. Luckily I was never obese despite it because I seem to have difficulty putting on weight in general.
Sooner or later, you die anyway. There are times where I wish I can sleep and never wake up. It is more important to enjoy the everyday of yourlife than try to prolong it.
Even video games while less taxing are still physical.
Yeah, sitting on one's ass in a basement playing a MMORPG all day long is very physical.
Hay..... We agree
You may laugh, but sitting on your butt all day is actually more punishing to the body than exercising all day. Especially if you are drinking soda and eating junk food. You will be in a world of hurt. I've been there before when I was young and though fun at times it was a painful experience. Luckily I was never obese despite it because I seem to have difficulty putting on weight in general.
Sooner or later, you die anyway. There are times where I wish I can sleep and never wake up. It is more important to enjoy the everyday of yourlife than try to prolong it.
WTF...
live healthily live longer have more days to enjoy the stuff you like..
Understanding what happened to mmorpgs begins with realizing that they don't exist in a vaccuum.
Since mmorpgs began there has been a marked increase in the number of things competing to be your source of entertainment. Way more games. More gaming platforms. More movies and television that is instantly available. More things on the internet to enjoy. More ways to communicate on smart phone. More more more.
So when you sit down to play a mmorpg, every minute you spend doing it is a decision by you to forego all that other stuff.
Which means there are fewer people willing to spend hours waiting on a spawn, or months pursuing a quest, etc. Because that means missing out on quite a lot of other possible means of entertainment. For many it is too great a sacrifice.
I'm not saying this is a good thing. Not at all. It saddens me because,for me, it has diminished the quality of what is offered.
I'm just saying it has led to an attitude by many that goes something like this. Entertain me now. Don't waste my time. Don't make me wait. Be more fun than what I could otherwise be doing.
Also you have to realize it is going to get worse. The entertainment offerings are still growing exponentially every year. Not long from now the games you thing are easy will be ones regarded as "old school" in comparison to the newer ones.
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
Comments
Have you met humanity? Heard of the Olympics? Sports? Other games? Mountain climbing? Triathlons? Even video games while less taxing are still physical. So real penises basically.
Totally disagree on it being difficult to do in the open world. Games already can match content to player level, just fiddle that number and you have basic difficulty. Classify powers and frequency of use, time to counter, and you are getting there. More work yes, but you could triple your satisfied customers.
As far as the number of raiders, I don't know, it was a question. I heard something to that effect. And that was the number of raiders, not people who might do a raid occasionally. THe point being that it's one limited facet at the end of a game that might never be seen if someone finds the leveling too hard, tedious or boring.
I wouldn't try to fit that idea into a game like WoW though. 90% of that game should be redone
Seeing as you could actually design a game so that the amount of time you had to play didn' t matter, I think the conversation is kinda moot anyway.
The only way to do it is have different versions of the same map, which would work in theory, if you had an infinitely funded development team with tons of time to develop multiple versions of the same map. You notice this has never been done before in a game that is a proper MMO? It is because it can't be done. You would effectively be creating and supporting 2 versions of the same game all the time as there would be an expectation that every single map ever introduced has at least 2 difficulty levels.
If you don't know how many people are raiding, don't post data and use it as evidence to back up an argument. Saying "I heard" is the same thing as saying nothing at all without proof to back it up. Also, how would you quantify a raider? Sounds very semantics to me. If someone raids once a week are they a raider? If someone raids once a month are they a raider? I mean, quite frankly, that is likely one of the reasons that we don't have the data as there is no way to quantify what a raider is. I mean, some people complete a raid once and never go back. Are they raiders? This is murky territory here.
Why would WoW need to be redone? I mean hell, it is redone nearly every expansion ;P I know what you mean though, but the reality is that WoW is still the top grossing MMO, so whether you or me like it doesn't really matter. (Dunno about subs since those figures have not been revealed in years, but considering how many sub games are left I would say it is pretty likely they are at least surpassing all the games with F2P options.)
Also when you form a group the encounter slider is set by the group leader no individuals.
I'm suggesting difficulty for the player, not for his role, so a tank set on easy could survive well, but the dps player set on hard would find it very easy to pull agro, and that the mob was saving his nastiest attack for him to do just that
I had forgotten how One Tamriel works, so my bad, maybe I should have said GW 2.
I'm 100% confident I could work out a good system that's hard to exploit. I won't say impossible. It would, of course, take multiple iterations to get it right.
So you are suggesting a dynamically scaling aggro system? Welp, I am done...lol
The best solution to this "problem" for people who think it is one, is to have specific end game zones that are hard open world zones for people who want to participate. All these weird gimmicky programmatic solutions seem a little much for something that can be done by simply equipping a couple of gear pieces to make things harder
<_< >_>
Hay..... We agree
live healthily live longer have more days to enjoy the stuff you like..
Understanding what happened to mmorpgs begins with realizing that they don't exist in a vaccuum.
Since mmorpgs began there has been a marked increase in the number of things competing to be your source of entertainment. Way more games. More gaming platforms. More movies and television that is instantly available. More things on the internet to enjoy. More ways to communicate on smart phone. More more more.
So when you sit down to play a mmorpg, every minute you spend doing it is a decision by you to forego all that other stuff.
Which means there are fewer people willing to spend hours waiting on a spawn, or months pursuing a quest, etc. Because that means missing out on quite a lot of other possible means of entertainment. For many it is too great a sacrifice.
I'm not saying this is a good thing. Not at all. It saddens me because,for me, it has diminished the quality of what is offered.
I'm just saying it has led to an attitude by many that goes something like this. Entertain me now. Don't waste my time. Don't make me wait. Be more fun than what I could otherwise be doing.
Also you have to realize it is going to get worse. The entertainment offerings are still growing exponentially every year. Not long from now the games you thing are easy will be ones regarded as "old school" in comparison to the newer ones.
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests