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J. Todd Coleman Chats About His Work On & Pride In His Work on Shadowbane - Crowfall Videos - MMORPG

SystemSystem Member UncommonPosts: 5,023
edited December 2017 in Videos Discussion

imageJ. Todd Coleman Chats About His Work On & Pride In His Work on Shadowbane - Crowfall Videos - MMORPG.com

The Crowfall site has been updated with the second part of a two part series called "A Murder of Crows". In it, J. Todd Coleman chats about why his work on Shadowbane had "a tremendous vision I was very proud of".

Read the full story here


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Comments

  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 11,949
    edited December 2017
    I was there when we tested it and demoed it for UBISOFT and he was so happy about how it went. Shadowbane had some of the greatest gaming concepts to date. That damn SB.EXE just hung around it's neck like an anchor.

    Great times though. I have some awesome memories from that game.
    HellidolDvoraJamesGoblinNickcsThupli

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Starvault's reponse to criticism related to having a handful of players as the official "test" team for a supposed MMO: "We've just have another 10ish folk kind enough to voulenteer added tot the test team" (SIC) This explains much about the state of the game :-)

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

    My ignore list finally has one occupant after 12 years. I am the strongest supporter of free speech on here, but free speech does not mean forced listening. Have fun my friend. Hope you find a new stalking target.

  • ElderknightElderknight Member UncommonPosts: 301
    Awesome Thanks for the Great Game, keep up the work on Crowfall
    JamesGoblinThupli
  • WizardryWizardry Member LegendaryPosts: 17,514
    Wing It" exactly how SC is being made.As money comes we wing it on new ideas.He is correct,it is not the way to design a game or run a company.
    I didn't get far into DAOC because i quit after about 2 hours,i thought it was a really bad game.since forever ,i can get a feel for a game within minutes,i don't need days/weeks to decide on a game.
    I can see the intrigue and the virtually catchy idea would catch on because there was literally almost no choice back then.

    I can only assume the catch was the pvp?

    I wouldn't mind knowing what the actual systems/intrigue was that was so attractive,aside from pvp of course.

    "out of business" "out of business" you can see how sloppy and care free this industry is/was.
    I personally do not feel Crowfall will be very good or at least not a game i want to play.I am sure there will be a certain audience market but then so seems anything now a days has a market.

    I would love to be wrong about this game,but my gut says not likely,just the idea of "campaigns" alone says not on my radar.
    HellidolLackingMMOkhameleonJamesGoblinXoph

    Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.

  • SidQFTSidQFT Member UncommonPosts: 96
    Best I've ever played! Played start to finish. Its the only game that ive played exclusively during the games lifetime.
    HellidolDhamon99JamesGoblin
  • ScorchienScorchien Member LegendaryPosts: 7,313
    Shadow bane , altho a good idea was a complete mess , ripe with exploits/hacks/dupes and cheats because of a poorly coded system from the top down .... There are still players /ported to/ and lost at sea in Shadowbane
    Xoph
  • HellidolHellidol Member UncommonPosts: 475
    I loved Shadowbane, I also played start to finish and the game was amazing. There was a lot of bugs and even with all that they still pulled off something that no one else has done with that genre, there are a few games out there that kind of got some what close, but to conquer the entire map and the political dealings that really mattered such as merc guilds being payed by one guild only to turn on them because another guild paid more, you dont and wont see that in any other game but games like these. It brought the will to want to fight as a mass or the will to fight as a small group against the mass. There were times were our guild was out numbered 3 to 1 easy maybe close to 4 to 1 and we would over come. I remembers as a Vamp scout taking out a Templar HG because I was just better and new his class better then he knew mine. Games like this the require real strategy and skill dont exists, its all about the gear now and that is just boring.
    JamesGoblin

    image
  • zymurgeistzymurgeist Member RarePosts: 5,484
    People put up with the flaws of Shadowbane because there has never been anything else like it. You had to play it like a sociopath to understand it's attraction. 
    JamesGoblin

    "We have met the enemy and he is us." ~Pogo Possum. 

  • FlyByKnightFlyByKnight Member EpicPosts: 3,967
    J. Todd Colemans candor is why I believe Crowfall will release and be pretty decent.
    JamesGoblinFrykka
    "As far as the forum code of conduct, I would think it's a bit outdated and in need of a refre *CLOSED*" 

    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  • LuidenLuiden Member UncommonPosts: 273
    Wizardry said:
    I didn't get far into DAOC because i quit after about 2 hours,i thought it was a really bad game.since forever ,i can get a feel for a game within minutes,i don't need days/weeks to decide on a game.

    And this is why MMORPGs are so bad today.  You thought after playing 2 hours of DAOC that you understood the game?  Sorry bro, but you missed out on one of the greatest MMORPGs ever created.. today it stands alone as the only RvR game and is well knows for being the best RvR/PvE game ever created.

    Maybe you should look at yourself and ask yourself if you are really evaluating these games properly.
    HellidolAlomarJamesGoblinThupliFrykka
  • adam_noxadam_nox Member UncommonPosts: 2,128
    Times have changed. Kids who were in high school and college have lives now. We can't play a hundred hours as a way to 'give a game a chance.' I never played shadowbane, but I watched the salt and tears and flames across the mmo community with great interest.
    JamesGoblin
  • DaakkonDaakkon Member UncommonPosts: 606
    I absolutely loved this game, even through it's bugs and flaws. Way ahead of it's time, and overly ambitious, but a true gem to come out of the early mmo days. I wish a studio would re-do this game, as the lore behind it was incredible!!! With today's technology, it would be a great game! It didn't take long to reach max level, and the end game pvp is where this game shined.
    JamesGoblin
  • DvoraDvora Member UncommonPosts: 499
    edited December 2017

    Luiden said:


    Wizardry said:

    I didn't get far into DAOC because i quit after about 2 hours,i thought it was a really bad game.since forever ,i can get a feel for a game within minutes,i don't need days/weeks to decide on a game.




    And this is why MMORPGs are so bad today.  You thought after playing 2 hours of DAOC that you understood the game?  Sorry bro, but you missed out on one of the greatest MMORPGs ever created.. today it stands alone as the only RvR game and is well knows for being the best RvR/PvE game ever created.

    Maybe you should look at yourself and ask yourself if you are really evaluating these games properly.



    I agree for the most part, 2 hours is not enough to judge an mmo by, unless it is a korean anime trash game like so many lately. The stench from those can drive me away in seconds. Not all korean games are trash anime, but if they aren't odds are you just have to play a bit longer to find out they ruined them in other ways, usually involving a cash shop.

    As far as Crowfall, so far I don't see anything like the depth that Shadowbane had or any evidence that their classes are anywhere near as fun to play.

    They should have made Crowfall an almost duplicate of shadowbane but with updated graphics, then try adding the campaign thing. Right now the classes look clunky and like they were dumbed down for consoles. Then there is the world. Not much of an improvement over shadowbane, and that says alot, because that was one of SB's weaker points. Flat boring zones.
    JamesGoblin
  • Tiamat64Tiamat64 Member RarePosts: 1,535
    edited December 2017
    Luiden said:
    Wizardry said:
    I didn't get far into DAOC because i quit after about 2 hours,i thought it was a really bad game.since forever ,i can get a feel for a game within minutes,i don't need days/weeks to decide on a game.

    And this is why MMORPGs are so bad today.  You thought after playing 2 hours of DAOC that you understood the game?  Sorry bro, but you missed out on one of the greatest MMORPGs ever created.. today it stands alone as the only RvR game and is well knows for being the best RvR/PvE game ever created.

    Maybe you should look at yourself and ask yourself if you are really evaluating these games properly.
    It's only the MMORPG genre that requires 10 to 100+ hours before you can truly "understand" the game.

    No wonder why the MMORPG genre is getting it's butt kicked by every other genre in existence these days when it comes to popularity.

    Spend 20+ hours "understanding" DAOC or jump right into a MOBA or Overwatch for free and figure out if you'll like that PvP experience within 2 hours.  The MMORPG genre is such a dinosaur these days.
    LackingMMOJamesGoblinHellidol
  • DvoraDvora Member UncommonPosts: 499
    Tiamat64 said:
    Luiden said:
    Wizardry said:
    I didn't get far into DAOC because i quit after about 2 hours,i thought it was a really bad game.since forever ,i can get a feel for a game within minutes,i don't need days/weeks to decide on a game.

    And this is why MMORPGs are so bad today.  You thought after playing 2 hours of DAOC that you understood the game?  Sorry bro, but you missed out on one of the greatest MMORPGs ever created.. today it stands alone as the only RvR game and is well knows for being the best RvR/PvE game ever created.

    Maybe you should look at yourself and ask yourself if you are really evaluating these games properly.
    It's only the MMORPG genre that requires 10 to 100+ hours before you can truly "understand" the game.

    No wonder why the MMORPG genre is getting it's butt kicked by every other genre in existence these days when it comes to popularity.

    Spend 20+ hours "understanding" DAOC or jump right into a MOBA or Overwatch for free and figure out if you'll like that PvP experience within 2 hours.  The MMORPG genre is such a dinosaur these days.
    jump right into a moba etc and then be bored with it in less than a week, where a good mmo can hold people for years. Clearly anything with any sort of depth or complexity is not for you. Stick with your instant gratification games, but please don't try and change MMO's to be more like your games. Thats whats been happening and whats killing the genre, not complexity. That said, not all good mmo's take hours and hours to become good or to figure the basics out. A good complex mmo can lead you into the complexity bit by bit and still be entertaining at the start. Not that this has happened much lately.
  • VaelgardVaelgard Member UncommonPosts: 64
    Greatest gaming experiences of my life were in Shadowbane. Yes the engine was pure crap, but those moments just can't be reproduced. Winning a fully player run gladiator tournament that was broadcast server wide with notifications, with the development team watching and participating was something I will always remember. Yes the sieges were crash and lag filled disasters, but the mere scope and weight of them meant everything. The political intrigue. The crazy characters (players). FC events. Oh man. I'm too old now to invest that kind of time anymore, but the greatest game in concept, if not at all in execution.
    JamesGoblin
  • norman728norman728 Member UncommonPosts: 146
    this game was my second mmo after UO
  • Tiamat64Tiamat64 Member RarePosts: 1,535
    edited December 2017
    Dvora said:
    Tiamat64 said:
    It's only the MMORPG genre that requires 10 to 100+ hours before you can truly "understand" the game.

    No wonder why the MMORPG genre is getting it's butt kicked by every other genre in existence these days when it comes to popularity.

    Spend 20+ hours "understanding" DAOC or jump right into a MOBA or Overwatch for free and figure out if you'll like that PvP experience within 2 hours.  The MMORPG genre is such a dinosaur these days.
    jump right into a moba etc and then be bored with it in less than a week, where a good mmo can hold people for years. Clearly anything with any sort of depth or complexity is not for you. Stick with your instant gratification games, but please don't try and change MMO's to be more like your games. Thats whats been happening and whats killing the genre, not complexity. That said, not all good mmo's take hours and hours to become good or to figure the basics out. A good complex mmo can lead you into the complexity bit by bit and still be entertaining at the start. Not that this has happened much lately.
    Clearly League of Legends and Team Fortress 2 only lasted less than a week.

    Hell, even WoW, the most successful MMORPG of all time, is more beginner friendly than the vast majority of MMORPGs out there.

    But hey, whatever.  It's not like all MMOs have to be super successful if they're going for a niche audience.  Just successful enough to stay afloat.  Just don't be surprised that they never remain anything but niche and have detractors if they aren't willing to evolve to at least have a halfway FUN experience at the start like WoW was.  ....well, perhaps more importantly on a personal level, also don't be surprised if some of them end up being TOO niche and not able to survive after all, of course (because in addition to most MMORPGs being niche, they also have higher ongoing maintenance costs and the possiblity of lights out unlike most other genres.  So it's like a double whammy!).  Or alternatively are forced to monetize out the whazoo just to keep afloat for a little longer.
  • khameleonkhameleon Member UncommonPosts: 484

    Wizardry said:

    Wing It" exactly how SC is being made.As money comes we wing it on new ideas.He is correct,it is not the way to design a game or run a company.

    I didn't get far into DAOC because i quit after about 2 hours,i thought it was a really bad game.since forever ,i can get a feel for a game within minutes,i don't need days/weeks to decide on a game.

    I can see the intrigue and the virtually catchy idea would catch on because there was literally almost no choice back then.



    I can only assume the catch was the pvp?



    I wouldn't mind knowing what the actual systems/intrigue was that was so attractive,aside from pvp of course.



    "out of business" "out of business" you can see how sloppy and care free this industry is/was.

    I personally do not feel Crowfall will be very good or at least not a game i want to play.I am sure there will be a certain audience market but then so seems anything now a days has a market.



    I would love to be wrong about this game,but my gut says not likely,just the idea of "campaigns" alone says not on my radar.




    If you decide after 2 hours on an MMORPG, I thnk you are in the wrong genre of games and you are looking for beat em ups and fast action games, not games that take time to develop the character, learn the systems, etc. There is no way to even properly gauge and MMORPg in 2 hours sorry.
    Xoph

    GAME TIL YOU DIE!!!!

  • Tiamat64Tiamat64 Member RarePosts: 1,535
    khameleon said:

    Wizardry said:

    Wing It" exactly how SC is being made.As money comes we wing it on new ideas.He is correct,it is not the way to design a game or run a company.

    I didn't get far into DAOC because i quit after about 2 hours,i thought it was a really bad game.since forever ,i can get a feel for a game within minutes,i don't need days/weeks to decide on a game.

    I can see the intrigue and the virtually catchy idea would catch on because there was literally almost no choice back then.



    I can only assume the catch was the pvp?



    I wouldn't mind knowing what the actual systems/intrigue was that was so attractive,aside from pvp of course.



    "out of business" "out of business" you can see how sloppy and care free this industry is/was.

    I personally do not feel Crowfall will be very good or at least not a game i want to play.I am sure there will be a certain audience market but then so seems anything now a days has a market.



    I would love to be wrong about this game,but my gut says not likely,just the idea of "campaigns" alone says not on my radar.




    If you decide after 2 hours on an MMORPG, I thnk you are in the wrong genre of games and you are looking for beat em ups and fast action games, not games that take time to develop the character, learn the systems, etc. There is no way to even properly gauge and MMORPg in 2 hours sorry.
    It's not hard to make an MMORPG enjoyable within the first two hours without compromising its long term viability.

    If a developer is incapable of something as simple as that, it doesn't speak very well for their competence or forethought in general, really.
  • lahnmirlahnmir Member LegendaryPosts: 3,436
    Luiden said:
    Wizardry said:
    I didn't get far into DAOC because i quit after about 2 hours,i thought it was a really bad game.since forever ,i can get a feel for a game within minutes,i don't need days/weeks to decide on a game.

    And this is why MMORPGs are so bad today.  You thought after playing 2 hours of DAOC that you understood the game?  Sorry bro, but you missed out on one of the greatest MMORPGs ever created.. today it stands alone as the only RvR game and is well knows for being the best RvR/PvE game ever created.

    Maybe you should look at yourself and ask yourself if you are really evaluating these games properly.
    Ohh but he does. Is it FFXI? Then its good. Is it another MMO? Then its bad.

    /Cheers,
    Lahnmir
    TorvalThupliJamesGoblinpantaro
    'the only way he could nail it any better is if he used a cross.'

    Kyleran on yours sincerely 


    'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'

    Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...



    'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless. 

    It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.

    It is just huge resource waste....'

    Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer

  • notmalantnotmalant Member CommonPosts: 1
    For anyone looking to feel that nostalgia, shadowbaneemulator.com is launching a new Shadowbane Server on January 5th!
    ThupliJamesGoblin
  • FlyByKnightFlyByKnight Member EpicPosts: 3,967
    I don't need more than a few hours to know if I like an MMORPG. You guys act like it's some new genre people need to "get" to understand.

    Truth be told, the more I spend with an MMORPG the more I find things wrong with it ruining any positive first impressions.
    "As far as the forum code of conduct, I would think it's a bit outdated and in need of a refre *CLOSED*" 

    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  • JamesGoblinJamesGoblin Member RarePosts: 1,242
    For comparison, "Death of a Game: Shadowbane" from NerdSlayer's "Death of a Game..." series:

     W...aaagh?
  • exile01exile01 Member RarePosts: 1,050
    Shadowbane and Guildwars 1- my top favored MMOs of all time.
    TheScavenger
  • FrammshammFrammshamm Member UncommonPosts: 322

    Wizardry said:

    Wing It" exactly how SC is being made.As money comes we wing it on new ideas.He is correct,it is not the way to design a game or run a company.

    I didn't get far into DAOC because i quit after about 2 hours,i thought it was a really bad game.since forever ,i can get a feel for a game within minutes,i don't need days/weeks to decide on a game.

    I can see the intrigue and the virtually catchy idea would catch on because there was literally almost no choice back then.



    I can only assume the catch was the pvp?



    I wouldn't mind knowing what the actual systems/intrigue was that was so attractive,aside from pvp of course.



    "out of business" "out of business" you can see how sloppy and care free this industry is/was.

    I personally do not feel Crowfall will be very good or at least not a game i want to play.I am sure there will be a certain audience market but then so seems anything now a days has a market.



    I would love to be wrong about this game,but my gut says not likely,just the idea of "campaigns" alone says not on my radar.




    Its just a shame you cant seem to get a feel for the English language within minutes as well...
    JamesGoblin
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