@Slapshot, we all know your opinion already, you have made it quite clear. *Shrugs* However, I didn't post for your benefit, but rather for others that might not be familiar with CoE
@Slapshot, we all know your opinion already, you have made it quite clear. *Shrugs* However, I didn't post for your benefit, but rather for others that might not be familiar with CoE
Well I would, but Slap said "26:10", my ADD (or cutting my video teeth on MTV) won't let me watch videos of that length.
But thanks, perhaps someone who makes it all the way through can provide a summary of the highlights.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
@Slapshot, we all know your opinion already, you have made it quite clear. *Shrugs* However, I didn't post for your benefit, but rather for others that might not be familiar with CoE
Well I would, but Slap said "26:10", my ADD (or cutting my video teeth on MTV) won't let me watch videos of that length.
But thanks, perhaps someone who makes it all the way through can provide a summary of the highlights.
You can click and jump to 26:10 As entertaining as the guy on the right may be... no Im not watching that whole thing either. I was just looking for the part referenced in the OP. Haven't found it yet and I'm done looking.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
@Kylern In relation to the OP, it starts at 29:15. So my guess is Slapshot didn't look too hard. He kind of reminds me of a jilted exwife, where is if it is not negative and he can't use it to turn folks from CoE he doesn't want to hear it.
Maybe get rid of the stupid spark BS and just make it a subscription pay per month type game.
So you would rather pay $10-$20 per month, rather than $30 for a minimum of three months, to a maximum of a year? Seems to me SBS is considering the better deal for the consumer.
Maybe get rid of the stupid spark BS and just make it a subscription pay per month type game.
So you would rather pay $10-$20 per month, rather than $30 for a minimum of three months, to a maximum of a year? Seems to me SBS is considering the better deal for the consumer.
yes, I'd pay 15 dollars a month. Why not let that be an option? You can have those who pay 30 dollars for up to a year. Or you can have those who pay 15 a month.
Dunno why companies never give options for their payment system. Its either buy to play, pay to play, free to play...very rarely anywhere inbetween.
Why not give options? ESO is buy to play, but you can pay per month and get some benefits out of it. But otherwise you can also pay for DLC separately and never pay monthly. LOTRO is sorta the same, and 100% free if you want to grind for a long time. But its rare to find an MMO where you have a choice of how to pay for stuff.
Dunno why its all or nothing. Like, why can't a game offer a variety of ways to pay?
My Skyrim, Fallout 4, Starbound and WoW + other game mods at MODDB:
@Kylern In relation to the OP, it starts at 29:15. So my guess is Slapshot didn't look too hard. He kind of reminds me of a jilted exwife, where is if it is not negative and he can't use it to turn folks from CoE he doesn't want to hear it.
Think you can pull some strings and get me on the next Bordwall Broadcasting Company livestream and give me 60 minutes to ask questions and followups to Caspien? Unfortunately I would not dress up in a mask or in character but I think the results would make for riveting video. He could maybe unmask me as uninformed and reveal all my inaccuracies... Just think how the fans would cheer if he were able to put me in my place
I bet we could drum up viewership that would double any previous stream!
I guarantee you that I have enough questions to fill the 60 minutes and each question will give him the chance to expose me as the fraud you think I am! Think of the golden opportunity I am giving you!
Hint. The first half would simply be walking point by point through the questions and answers from this post: https://chroniclesofelyria.com/forum/topic/7030/no-longer-backing-coe?page=5#post71247 and checking how his statements 19 months ago match reality today. We could also touch on his expectation that there will be HUNDREDS of thousands of players on each of his 5 servers...
But fair warning.. my followups will likely not be some variation of "That was a very valid and very important point you make"
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
@Slapshot, we all know your opinion already, you have made it quite clear. *Shrugs* However, I didn't post for your benefit, but rather for others that might not be familiar with CoE
Everyone here is at least 60-80% familiar with CoE unrealistic timelines, under funding, over promising and attacks against naysayers either by backers or the main man himself.
How on earth could they not find a publisher with all that stuff no one is familiar with?
In this day and age I'm not sure why they even need publishers any more. Rent some servers and turn them on. Don't sell boxes in stores... or worst case... steam.
I'm going to go out on a limb and say it's about advertising. Didn't we have a discussion at some point where it was revealed that advertising budgets for these games are huge. I'm thinking the publishers take up that slack but of course they want to make that back and then some.
I don't remember hardly any advertising for mmo's in general. Generally what there is is on sites like this, IGN etc and free press at that. Gamers know where to go to find games.
Maybe get rid of the stupid spark BS and just make it a subscription pay per month type game.
So you would rather pay $10-$20 per month, rather than $30 for a minimum of three months, to a maximum of a year? Seems to me SBS is considering the better deal for the consumer.
yes, I'd pay 15 dollars a month. Why not let that be an option? You can have those who pay 30 dollars for up to a year. Or you can have those who pay 15 a month.
Dunno why companies never give options for their payment system. Its either buy to play, pay to play, free to play...very rarely anywhere inbetween.
Why not give options? ESO is buy to play, but you can pay per month and get some benefits out of it. But otherwise you can also pay for DLC separately and never pay monthly. LOTRO is sorta the same, and 100% free if you want to grind for a long time. But its rare to find an MMO where you have a choice of how to pay for stuff.
Dunno why its all or nothing. Like, why can't a game offer a variety of ways to pay?
I am an ESO player as well, it is one of the few games I backed since beta. I agree I like the options that they have provided for players in their theme park setting. However, I really like SBSs business platform as well and recognized that it is a totally different style if game.
In CoE you are never charged for new content and instead of having a cash shop everything you want can be acquired in-game from other players, resulting in no additional costs to play with everything you want.
I think some are uncomfortable with it because it is new and totally different than anything else out there. Yet in contrast, the biggest complaint in the gaming communities these days are players are bored with what is out there and want something new, something different. It is a catch 22.
I suspect the reason we do have such a large active community this early in development and so many have pledged to support CoE is because we want to see this game come to fruition for all its differences and uniqueness. Sure it is not going to be for everyone, but what game is?
I can assure you after being part of the community for almost two years now, that this is exactly the game we want to play and the way we want to be treated by the developers. To be honest I would be very disappointed if they changed their business model now because it is one of the features I liked the most. The set up of other games out there is a cash grab when it really comes down to it and CoE doesn't feel that way to me.
In CoE you are never charged for new content and instead of having a cash shop everything you want can be acquired in-game from other players, resulting in no additional costs to play with everything you want.
I think some are uncomfortable with it because it is new and totally different than anything else out there.
This rings false to me, only because since the game isn't actually released yet, we don't know if they will charge for future content (they can claim not to, but in the end if charging for content saved the game, I would believe they would attempt it). The same goes for a cash shop, they can say they will not, but if you remember ESO's launch, it changed to stay alive and keep players happy. Quote from an article:
When Tamriel Unlimited came out, they changed their model and started giving away "bonus" crowns if you subscribed. The point I'm making is, companies can promise anything and can change or break their promise. You're speaking as if the game is out now and currently following these practices successfully. They are not, and in the end they may have to change the model.
In the end, there's no product yet, so if people are uncomfortable with it, or if publishers are uncomfortable with it, it's only SBS's fault. @TheScavenger is talking about a legitimate issue preventing them from playing the game, and whether that idea is or is not new or innovative, it means this person doesn't want to play based on that model.
I find it hard to imagine the game surviving very long on a "$30 per player per year" business model. You'd need a LOT of subscribers to keep the game afloat if they're only paying $30 per year.
....oh wait, Caspien thinks he'll get like, a million, right? That explains that, I suppose.
In CoE you are never charged for new content and instead of having a cash shop everything you want can be acquired in-game from other players, resulting in no additional costs to play with everything you want.
I think some are uncomfortable with it because it is new and totally different than anything else out there.
This rings false to me, only because since the game isn't actually released yet, we don't know if they will charge for future content (they can claim not to, but in the end if charging for content saved the game, I would believe they would attempt it). The same goes for a cash shop, they can say they will not, but if you remember ESO's launch, it changed to stay alive and keep players happy. Quote from an article:
When Tamriel Unlimited came out, they changed their model and started giving away "bonus" crowns if you subscribed. The point I'm making is, companies can promise anything and can change or break their promise. You're speaking as if the game is out now and currently following these practices successfully. They are not, and in the end they may have to change the model.
In the end, there's no product yet, so if people are uncomfortable with it, or if publishers are uncomfortable with it, it's only SBS's fault. @TheScavenger is talking about a legitimate issue preventing them from playing the game, and whether that idea is or is not new or innovative, it means this person doesn't want to play based on that model.
You have a valid point, it could change, none of us are able to foresee the future. Many things are expected to change between Development and Launch in any game. If it does, we will deal with that when the time comes. I say we because I know for a fact that SBS would include the community in a decision like that. In truth, and from what I have seen in the forums over the last couple of years, is that it really wouldn't bother the community if some sort of shop was to be implemented in the future, just as it really didn't bother ESO community.
However, we are talking about now and this amongst other thing is what is currently preventing SBS from choosing an investor. As Caspain stated in the video I provided, they don't want to be forced to change their vision just to make themselves or someone else rich. I personally think it says a lot about SBS, that they are sticking to their guns and not wanting to drain our wallets just so we can play their game.
If I were to look at it from a Producer or Investors point of view, of course, I would want it to be based on these other business models because they are going to make me rich. They are definitely cash grabs. But to look at it from a consumer point of view it is a very good deal and the fact that SBS doesn't want to budge on it tells me they are looking out for their community.
Now you might argue that they are trying to drain our wallets now, but my counter to that would be it is our choice if we want to help finance the game or not. With over 5000 players on Discord alone, and I believe the last I heard we have over 150,000 players invested through pledges. That is a very large demographic wishing to see this game come to life don't you think?
Any crowd-funded game is a risk, but it is up to the individual if they want to take it or not.
"they would never do (insert cash grab concept) that to us"
how do you know that?
"because they said so"
even when they've changed plans and are including their own version of a cash shop before the game is out just like every other cash grab MMO out there?
"yes"
Confirmation bias is the norm for the MMO industry. And to think these guys are over the age of 21
With over 5000 players on Discord alone, and I believe the last I heard we have over 150,000 players invested through pledges. That is a very large demographic wishing to see this game come to life don't you think?
150,000 pledged players? LOL... come on... just use common sense. 150,000 players pledged at the lowest level is almost $7,000,000. We know that many of the folks pledging have gone far more than $45... some have spent tens of thousands. Remember all the $10 make your village better tokens? The $10 make your guild better tokens? The $10 for each vote tokens? The sale of their Exposition Points? The sale of their upgrades? The buy your surname sale? All the Kings, Counts, Dukes, Barons?
Please show me something to support your statement that they have 150,000 pledged and invested players because I simply do not believe it. Not even close.
PS: Here is some simple math to prove how ludicrous your statement is.
They initially raised $1,361,435 through 10,752 Kickstarter pledges. They now have $3,435,025 total raised That means $2,073,590 post Kickstarter
If you take the absolute best case scenario and the only thing they sold was the lowest pledge and existing pledges spent no additional money, and nobody bought ANYTHING else... the absolute most they could have would be another 46k members.
We all know that the above is not possible. I would say they would be lucky to have 25,000 to 30,000 total which would be around $115 total average pledge. I'd wager it's even lower.
So please do provide support for the 150,000 players invested through pledges because I'm pretty confident that's just more "fake news" but it would explain why you wouldn't question his expectations for 1,000,000 or more players...
Post edited by Slapshot1188 on
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
"they would never do (insert cash grab concept) that to us"
how do you know that?
"because they said so"
even when they've changed plans and are including their own version of a cash shop before the game is out just like every other cash grab MMO out there?
"yes"
Confirmation bias is the norm for the MMO industry. And to think these guys are over the age of 21
You mean like these? Or these :
Profession Kits: 100 EP ea. These kits provide the starting equipment, tools, and patterns or techniques necessary to begin your occupation as a crafter, gatherer, explorer, or champion. (ex. Smithy kit, Carpenter Kit, Miner Kit, Soldier Kit, etc...) If the game supports a profession, chances are good there will be a kit available to help you get started. Individual items value at 20-40 EP.
Defense Kits: 325 EP These kits are designed to add a small number of defenses to a settlement in the form of a large amount of fencing and a couple of lookout towers. These are sufficient for basic defense of inner settlements, but not for baronies. Fencing is generally around 10 EP for 32m of fencing, plus 25-50 EP for the lookout towers.
Technology Kits: 5,000 EP Each biome has a specific set of resources, and specific needs. However, within each biome there is often more than one way to solve a problem and the technology kits offer the additional of universities and schools to help foster learning in specific areas, as well as the introduction of specific technologies into the kingdom which may help solve problems in new ways. Technology kits will include the buildings for schools, as well as the patterns and techniques for advanced technology. Individual EP ranges from several hundreds to a thousand for the colleges and universities, to 100+ EP for the patterns and techniques, depending on level of advancement.
Military Kits: 10,000 EP The military kit includes defensive structures such as ramparts and castles, as well as siege equipment such as trebuchet, catapults, etc. Individual items range from several hundred to several thousand EP.
Resource Stockpile: < 10 EP for a stack
Crafting Materials: < 25 EP for a stack
Contracts: < 25 EP for a stack
Patterns & Techniques: < 50 EP
Blueprints: < 100 EP
Tools: < 10 EP per tool
Containers: < 25 EP
Crafting Stations: < 50 EP
Equipment (clothing, armor, weapons): < 75 EP per item
Livestock / Bee hives: < 50 EP for a small stock
Pets: < 50 EP for a single trained pet
Mounts: < 100 EP for a single mount
Transportation: < 100 EP
Caravan Wagon: < 200 EP
Siege Equipment: < 250 EP
Crops: < 100 EP for a field
Plants & Trees: < 150 EP for a set of saplings
Land: 100 EP+
Furnished buildings: 200 EP+
Fences & Walls: 10 EP / 32m
Roads: 25 EP / 32m
Schools & Academies: 750 EP+
Cathedrals & Shrines: 1000 EP+
----------------------------- But wait!!! There's more!!! -----------------------------
Quality level
The prices for the above kits are set such that each community member can customize their package with the EP that was included with their package. However, that's by no means the extent of the customization that can be done. The contents of all the above kits are of what one would consider standard or common quality. Players are free to purchase additional items a la carte which will be of higher quality. In general, we follow a tiered approach as follows:
Common: 1x
Uncommon: 2x
Rare: 5x
Treasured: 20x
Legendary: 100x
This means that to determine an approximate price of a rare equivalent of a common item, one can multiply the common item by 5. So, for example, a common building that costs approximately 100 EP would cost approximately 500 EP. Similarly, if fencing costs about 10 EP for 32m, it might cost 1,000 EP for 32m for the best available stone rampart.
"they would never do (insert cash grab concept) that to us"
how do you know that?
"because they said so"
even when they've changed plans and are including their own version of a cash shop before the game is out just like every other cash grab MMO out there?
"yes"
Confirmation bias is the norm for the MMO industry. And to think these guys are over the age of 21
You mean like these? Or these :
Profession Kits: 100 EP ea. These kits provide the starting equipment, tools, and patterns or techniques necessary to begin your occupation as a crafter, gatherer, explorer, or champion. (ex. Smithy kit, Carpenter Kit, Miner Kit, Soldier Kit, etc...) If the game supports a profession, chances are good there will be a kit available to help you get started. Individual items value at 20-40 EP.
Defense Kits: 325 EP These kits are designed to add a small number of defenses to a settlement in the form of a large amount of fencing and a couple of lookout towers. These are sufficient for basic defense of inner settlements, but not for baronies. Fencing is generally around 10 EP for 32m of fencing, plus 25-50 EP for the lookout towers.
Technology Kits: 5,000 EP Each biome has a specific set of resources, and specific needs. However, within each biome there is often more than one way to solve a problem and the technology kits offer the additional of universities and schools to help foster learning in specific areas, as well as the introduction of specific technologies into the kingdom which may help solve problems in new ways. Technology kits will include the buildings for schools, as well as the patterns and techniques for advanced technology. Individual EP ranges from several hundreds to a thousand for the colleges and universities, to 100+ EP for the patterns and techniques, depending on level of advancement.
Military Kits: 10,000 EP The military kit includes defensive structures such as ramparts and castles, as well as siege equipment such as trebuchet, catapults, etc. Individual items range from several hundred to several thousand EP.
Resource Stockpile: < 10 EP for a stack
Crafting Materials: < 25 EP for a stack
Contracts: < 25 EP for a stack
Patterns & Techniques: < 50 EP
Blueprints: < 100 EP
Tools: < 10 EP per tool
Containers: < 25 EP
Crafting Stations: < 50 EP
Equipment (clothing, armor, weapons): < 75 EP per item
Livestock / Bee hives: < 50 EP for a small stock
Pets: < 50 EP for a single trained pet
Mounts: < 100 EP for a single mount
Transportation: < 100 EP
Caravan Wagon: < 200 EP
Siege Equipment: < 250 EP
Crops: < 100 EP for a field
Plants & Trees: < 150 EP for a set of saplings
Land: 100 EP+
Furnished buildings: 200 EP+
Fences & Walls: 10 EP / 32m
Roads: 25 EP / 32m
Schools & Academies: 750 EP+
Cathedrals & Shrines: 1000 EP+
----------------------------- But wait!!! There's more!!! -----------------------------
Quality level
The prices for the above kits are set such that each community member can customize their package with the EP that was included with their package. However, that's by no means the extent of the customization that can be done. The contents of all the above kits are of what one would consider standard or common quality. Players are free to purchase additional items a la carte which will be of higher quality. In general, we follow a tiered approach as follows:
Common: 1x
Uncommon: 2x
Rare: 5x
Treasured: 20x
Legendary: 100x
This means that to determine an approximate price of a rare equivalent of a common item, one can multiply the common item by 5. So, for example, a common building that costs approximately 100 EP would cost approximately 500 EP. Similarly, if fencing costs about 10 EP for 32m, it might cost 1,000 EP for 32m for the best available stone rampart.
That is looking pretty awful, well glad I didn't hitch my horse to this wagon, the wagon being 10,000 Ep and a kidney and maybe a left nut if I wanted the wagon to be painted.
I still think the real problem is they refuse to go full monty and embrace the cash shop concept.
To an outside investor it must he baffling why a team would have such a robust micro and macro transaction model pre-launch but who plan to shut it all down post launch and try to survive on minimal revenue per customer.
Maximizing revenue per customer for as long as you can is the name of the game, at least if you understand how business works.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I still think the real problem is they refuse to go full monty and embrace the cash shop concept.
To an outside investor it must he baffling why a team would have such a robust micro and macro transaction model pre-launch but who plan to shut it all down post launch and try to survive on minimal revenue per customer.
Maximizing revenue per customer for as long as you can is the name of the game, at least if you understand how business works.
Not that I am accusing anyone of anything, but the whole cash-shop pre-launch and nada post-launch is in lines of "I'm not a smoker, I can quit anytime, for instance today alone I did quit about 4 times already!"
Every single MMO will suffer post-launch-stress-no-order (yeah I've invented this term, and shut up it makes total sense). So you're already in cash-shop withdrawal state, and you're losing customers, you already had put +5 years and all your life's savings into this stupid game, and you're telling me that you are strong enough to stay clear of micro/macro-transactions?
It doesn't matter what they are saying now, what matters is what they have to do to survive.
Constantine, The Console Poster
"One of the most difficult tasks men can perform, however much others may despise it, is the invention of good games and it cannot be done by men out of touch with their instinctive selves." - Carl Jung
And the "hard questions" interviewer follows up by validating it with "Yeah.. I think that's a very valid and very important point to make" instead of asking him to list how many MMORPGs actually have 1M+ paying customers today.
My favorite MMO in the last years has been GW2 which is doing well where "well" in numbers means about 300k players.
The idea about CoE getting even 10% of that is absurd.
And the "hard questions" interviewer follows up by validating it with "Yeah.. I think that's a very valid and very important point to make" instead of asking him to list how many MMORPGs actually have 1M+ paying customers today.
My favorite MMO in the last years has been GW2 which is doing well where "well" in numbers means about 300k players.
The idea about CoE getting even 10% of that is absurd.
And the "hard questions" interviewer follows up by validating it with "Yeah.. I think that's a very valid and very important point to make" instead of asking him to list how many MMORPGs actually have 1M+ paying customers today.
My favorite MMO in the last years has been GW2 which is doing well where "well" in numbers means about 300k players.
The idea about CoE getting even 10% of that is absurd.
That is the crux of the problem. I think CoE will do well to begin with if they choose a wise point to have the official release but ultimately, with or without a publisher, as soon as one of the forefront players in the mmo scene such as WoW, FFXIV, ESO ect release an expansion, I just don't think they'll be able to contend. Ultimately a publisher is a business just like a games studio and they shouldn't be expected to go out on a limb to prop up a games studio anymore than the games studio should go out on a limb to prop up a new publishing house. I think the problem he has isn't that they don't understand - It is that they are both looking at the problem from different angles.
My favorite MMO in the last years has been GW2 which is doing well where "well" in numbers means about 300k players.
The idea about CoE getting even 10% of that is absurd.
Since most MMOs don't really release hard figures, and if they do it's a technical number (over 1 million accounts on a F2P game doesn't mean they are all active, or not a bot). It's always been my understanding though that, apart from WoW of course, most MMOs never really stay above a million active players more than a few months after initial release.
This is all speculation though since I assume no one here is on the staff? The amount of actual pledges are likely only known by people who aren't going to tell, at least without some sort of technicality.
I agree though, if we take other Kickstarter funded MMOs and compare, 150k people still interested after a year would be a stretch. This doesn't count Star Citizen, but even if it did just look at the revenue disparity between the two and know they aren't comparable.
Comments
But thanks, perhaps someone who makes it all the way through can provide a summary of the highlights.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
As entertaining as the guy on the right may be... no Im not watching that whole thing either. I was just looking for the part referenced in the OP. Haven't found it yet and I'm done looking.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Dunno why companies never give options for their payment system. Its either buy to play, pay to play, free to play...very rarely anywhere inbetween.
Why not give options? ESO is buy to play, but you can pay per month and get some benefits out of it. But otherwise you can also pay for DLC separately and never pay monthly. LOTRO is sorta the same, and 100% free if you want to grind for a long time. But its rare to find an MMO where you have a choice of how to pay for stuff.
Dunno why its all or nothing. Like, why can't a game offer a variety of ways to pay?
My Skyrim, Fallout 4, Starbound and WoW + other game mods at MODDB:
https://www.moddb.com/mods/skyrim-anime-overhaul
I bet we could drum up viewership that would double any previous stream!
I guarantee you that I have enough questions to fill the 60 minutes and each question will give him the chance to expose me as the fraud you think I am! Think of the golden opportunity I am giving you!
Hint. The first half would simply be walking point by point through the questions and answers from this post: https://chroniclesofelyria.com/forum/topic/7030/no-longer-backing-coe?page=5#post71247 and checking how his statements 19 months ago match reality today. We could also touch on his expectation that there will be HUNDREDS of thousands of players on each of his 5 servers...
But fair warning.. my followups will likely not be some variation of "That was a very valid and very important point you make"
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
How on earth could they not find a publisher with all that stuff no one is familiar with?
In CoE you are never charged for new content and instead of having a cash shop everything you want can be acquired in-game from other players, resulting in no additional costs to play with everything you want.
I think some are uncomfortable with it because it is new and totally different than anything else out there. Yet in contrast, the biggest complaint in the gaming communities these days are players are bored with what is out there and want something new, something different. It is a catch 22.
I suspect the reason we do have such a large active community this early in development and so many have pledged to support CoE is because we want to see this game come to fruition for all its differences and uniqueness. Sure it is not going to be for everyone, but what game is?
I can assure you after being part of the community for almost two years now, that this is exactly the game we want to play and the way we want to be treated by the developers. To be honest I would be very disappointed if they changed their business model now because it is one of the features I liked the most. The set up of other games out there is a cash grab when it really comes down to it and CoE doesn't feel that way to me.
This rings false to me, only because since the game isn't actually released yet, we don't know if they will charge for future content (they can claim not to, but in the end if charging for content saved the game, I would believe they would attempt it). The same goes for a cash shop, they can say they will not, but if you remember ESO's launch, it changed to stay alive and keep players happy. Quote from an article:
There won't be anything like bonus points, but we'll have a shop to buy kind of fun stuff and services too, like name changes and things like that."
Source: https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2013/08/the-elder-scrolls-online-to-include-real-money-shop-atop-subscription/
When Tamriel Unlimited came out, they changed their model and started giving away "bonus" crowns if you subscribed. The point I'm making is, companies can promise anything and can change or break their promise. You're speaking as if the game is out now and currently following these practices successfully. They are not, and in the end they may have to change the model.
In the end, there's no product yet, so if people are uncomfortable with it, or if publishers are uncomfortable with it, it's only SBS's fault. @TheScavenger is talking about a legitimate issue preventing them from playing the game, and whether that idea is or is not new or innovative, it means this person doesn't want to play based on that model.
....oh wait, Caspien thinks he'll get like, a million, right? That explains that, I suppose.
However, we are talking about now and this amongst other thing is what is currently preventing SBS from choosing an investor. As Caspain stated in the video I provided, they don't want to be forced to change their vision just to make themselves or someone else rich. I personally think it says a lot about SBS, that they are sticking to their guns and not wanting to drain our wallets just so we can play their game.
If I were to look at it from a Producer or Investors point of view, of course, I would want it to be based on these other business models because they are going to make me rich. They are definitely cash grabs. But to look at it from a consumer point of view it is a very good deal and the fact that SBS doesn't want to budge on it tells me they are looking out for their community.
Now you might argue that they are trying to drain our wallets now, but my counter to that would be it is our choice if we want to help finance the game or not. With over 5000 players on Discord alone, and I believe the last I heard we have over 150,000 players invested through pledges. That is a very large demographic wishing to see this game come to life don't you think?
Any crowd-funded game is a risk, but it is up to the individual if they want to take it or not.
"they would never do (insert cash grab concept) that to us"
how do you know that?
"because they said so"
even when they've changed plans and are including their own version of a cash shop before the game is out just like every other cash grab MMO out there?
"yes"
Confirmation bias is the norm for the MMO industry. And to think these guys are over the age of 21
Please show me something to support your statement that they have 150,000 pledged and invested players because I simply do not believe it. Not even close.
PS: Here is some simple math to prove how ludicrous your statement is.
They initially raised $1,361,435 through 10,752 Kickstarter pledges.
They now have $3,435,025 total raised
That means $2,073,590 post Kickstarter
If you take the absolute best case scenario and the only thing they sold was the lowest pledge and existing pledges spent no additional money, and nobody bought ANYTHING else... the absolute most they could have would be another 46k members.
We all know that the above is not possible. I would say they would be lucky to have 25,000 to 30,000 total which would be around $115 total average pledge. I'd wager it's even lower.
So please do provide support for the 150,000 players invested through pledges because I'm pretty confident that's just more "fake news" but it would explain why you wouldn't question his expectations for 1,000,000 or more players...
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
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Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
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Or these :
Profession Kits: 100 EP ea.
These kits provide the starting equipment, tools, and patterns or techniques necessary to begin your occupation as a crafter, gatherer, explorer, or champion. (ex. Smithy kit, Carpenter Kit, Miner Kit, Soldier Kit, etc...) If the game supports a profession, chances are good there will be a kit available to help you get started. Individual items value at 20-40 EP.
Defense Kits: 325 EP
These kits are designed to add a small number of defenses to a settlement in the form of a large amount of fencing and a couple of lookout towers. These are sufficient for basic defense of inner settlements, but not for baronies. Fencing is generally around 10 EP for 32m of fencing, plus 25-50 EP for the lookout towers.
Technology Kits: 5,000 EP
Each biome has a specific set of resources, and specific needs. However, within each biome there is often more than one way to solve a problem and the technology kits offer the additional of universities and schools to help foster learning in specific areas, as well as the introduction of specific technologies into the kingdom which may help solve problems in new ways. Technology kits will include the buildings for schools, as well as the patterns and techniques for advanced technology. Individual EP ranges from several hundreds to a thousand for the colleges and universities, to 100+ EP for the patterns and techniques, depending on level of advancement.
Military Kits: 10,000 EP
The military kit includes defensive structures such as ramparts and castles, as well as siege equipment such as trebuchet, catapults, etc. Individual items range from several hundred to several thousand EP.
- Resource Stockpile: < 10 EP for a stack
- Crafting Materials: < 25 EP for a stack
- Contracts: < 25 EP for a stack
- Patterns & Techniques: < 50 EP
- Blueprints: < 100 EP
- Tools: < 10 EP per tool
- Containers: < 25 EP
- Crafting Stations: < 50 EP
- Equipment (clothing, armor, weapons): < 75 EP per item
- Livestock / Bee hives: < 50 EP for a small stock
- Pets: < 50 EP for a single trained pet
- Mounts: < 100 EP for a single mount
- Transportation: < 100 EP
- Caravan Wagon: < 200 EP
- Siege Equipment: < 250 EP
- Crops: < 100 EP for a field
- Plants & Trees: < 150 EP for a set of saplings
- Land: 100 EP+
- Furnished buildings: 200 EP+
- Fences & Walls: 10 EP / 32m
- Roads: 25 EP / 32m
- Schools & Academies: 750 EP+
- Cathedrals & Shrines: 1000 EP+
-----------------------------But wait!!! There's more!!!
-----------------------------
Quality level
The prices for the above kits are set such that each community member can customize their package with the EP that was included with their package. However, that's by no means the extent of the customization that can be done. The contents of all the above kits are of what one would consider standard or common quality. Players are free to purchase additional items a la carte which will be of higher quality. In general, we follow a tiered approach as follows:
This means that to determine an approximate price of a rare equivalent of a common item, one can multiply the common item by 5. So, for example, a common building that costs approximately 100 EP would cost approximately 500 EP. Similarly, if fencing costs about 10 EP for 32m, it might cost 1,000 EP for 32m for the best available stone rampart.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
That is looking pretty awful, well glad I didn't hitch my horse to this wagon, the wagon being 10,000 Ep and a kidney and maybe a left nut if I wanted the wagon to be painted.
To an outside investor it must he baffling why a team would have such a robust micro and macro transaction model pre-launch but who plan to shut it all down post launch and try to survive on minimal revenue per customer.
Maximizing revenue per customer for as long as you can is the name of the game, at least if you understand how business works.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
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Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
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Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Every single MMO will suffer post-launch-stress-no-order (yeah I've invented this term, and shut up it makes total sense). So you're already in cash-shop withdrawal state, and you're losing customers, you already had put +5 years and all your life's savings into this stupid game, and you're telling me that you are strong enough to stay clear of micro/macro-transactions?
It doesn't matter what they are saying now, what matters is what they have to do to survive.
The idea about CoE getting even 10% of that is absurd.
Do I look stupid to you?
Since most MMOs don't really release hard figures, and if they do it's a technical number (over 1 million accounts on a F2P game doesn't mean they are all active, or not a bot). It's always been my understanding though that, apart from WoW of course, most MMOs never really stay above a million active players more than a few months after initial release.
This is all speculation though since I assume no one here is on the staff? The amount of actual pledges are likely only known by people who aren't going to tell, at least without some sort of technicality.
I agree though, if we take other Kickstarter funded MMOs and compare, 150k people still interested after a year would be a stretch. This doesn't count Star Citizen, but even if it did just look at the revenue disparity between the two and know they aren't comparable.
EDIT- Phone autocorrected a word.