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FCC killed net neutrality. What does it mean for gamers?

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  • TillerTiller Member EpicPosts: 8,745
    Hrimnir said:
    Darksworm said:
    The FCC never had the authority to regulate ISPs, given their classification, so Net Neutrality wasn't really legal anyways.

    In order to regulate ISPs in this way, the law needs to be changed to classify Internet Service Providers the same as Telephone Companies.  If that is done, then the FCC can regulate them in this way.

    This used to be the case, but lobbyists have power.

    I don't have a problem with this decision, because the FCC never had the jurisdiction to do this.  Just because something benefits us doesn't mean we should allows laws to be warped to allow it to happen.  If you make exceptions in this case, in your favor, then you can't complain about exceptions that harm you being made later on.

    The big issue with this isn't the fact that it kills Net Neutrality, but the fact that people are pissed at this, but ignoring the elephant in the room...  Probably half or more of the people in this country have no choice one cable provider because monopolies are allowed to rule the country region by region.

    When there is more competition, this will become a non-issue.

    If Verizon wants to charge Netflix more, then Netflix can say no and the users on Netflix who want good 4K streaming will simply move to the ISP that allows it without destroying their user experience.

    Right now, this is impossible for a lot of people.  If you have Comcast, yo often have no choice other than Satellite Internet... and that's unusable for things like gaming, VoIP, etc. due to ridiculous PINGs.

    This is why AT&T was easily able to be pressured off their stance of blocking FaceTime back in 2012.  They have competitors in the same market who told their users "it works here, and we'll save you some money in the process. Come on over!"

    This hits it on the nailhead. The super ultra "pro" net neutrality people are ignoring the market forces that are at play, and the super ultra "against" net neutrality people are ignoring the fact that thousands of city councils across the country have granted monopoly access to cable lines and such to single companies.

    It's not nearly as clear cut as everyone likes to make it.

    That has more to do with who is paying for the fiber lines through cites and rural areas and how willing they are to share the access. That's a whole different debate. https://www.huffingtonpost.com/bruce-kushnick/you-have-been-charged-tho_b_6306360.html

    YashaX
    SWG Bloodfin vet
    Elder Jedi/Elder Bounty Hunter
  • YashaXYashaX Member EpicPosts: 2,561
    ScotchUp said:
    AAAMEOW said:
    Sildanair said:
    Means nothing. I played FFXI and WoW all I wanted before 2015.
    Do they have net neutrality before 2015?  I don't know much about the topic.
    https://is.gd/tWz4hd get's a little confusing reading it, but that is what people do on the left to confuse the masses. You know us stupid people. Obama put these rules into effect in 2015. What they could have done is take any talking point they didn't like and wipe it off the net (this is the basic reason rules were put in) and then ban that person or site. Sort of like what the IRS did to conservative sites for Trump.

    Was best to have it dismantled and go back to way it was before 2015. There is already laws in books that take control of illegal acts on the net.

    I think its ridiculous how you reduce everything to "left" vs "right", and then proceed to spew out blatant lies. 
    Asm0deusRexKushmanFlyByKnight
    ....
  • zymurgeistzymurgeist Member RarePosts: 5,484
    edited December 2017
    Quizzical said:
    AAAMEOW said:
    Sildanair said:
    Means nothing. I played FFXI and WoW all I wanted before 2015.
    Do they have net neutrality before 2015?  I don't know much about the topic.
    Before 2015, in the United States, the Internet was regulated under "Title I" regulations of some law, possibly the Communications Act of 1934, though hopefully with some modifications since 1934.  In 2015, the FCC arbitrarily decided to switch to Title II regulation to allow them to regulate some things more heavily, but arbitrarily decided that some parts of Title II shouldn't be enforced on ISPs because it would just break everything.  The FCC now decided to switch back to Title I, so basically, the way things were until 2015.

    You can reasonably argue that reverting to the way things were until 2015 is a good thing or a bad thing.  I'd argue that switching back and forth on a whim rather than having a stable system is a bad thing.  But the people claiming that reverting to the way things were until 2015 will be the end of the Internet have long since left the domain of reasonable argument.

    Title I of the 1934 communications act is a mission statement. It contains no regulations.  Title II is where the regulations are set out and none of them applied to the internet directly. The only thing regulating the internet was the same laws that apply to every business. Most of the internet court cases revolved around fraud, anticompetitive practices, and access issues. The elephant in the room is the FCC has no authority to regulate the internet. In 1996 Congress passed a law specifically forbidding them from doing so. It passed with broad bipartisan support and Bill Clinton signed it. It was his most significant and long lasting achievement but virtually no one recognizes it's massive effect on the way telecoms do business today. 

    "We have met the enemy and he is us." ~Pogo Possum. 

  • ScotchUpScotchUp Member UncommonPosts: 228
    YashaX said:
    ScotchUp said:
    AAAMEOW said:
    Sildanair said:
    Means nothing. I played FFXI and WoW all I wanted before 2015.
    Do they have net neutrality before 2015?  I don't know much about the topic.
    https://is.gd/tWz4hd get's a little confusing reading it, but that is what people do on the left to confuse the masses. You know us stupid people. Obama put these rules into effect in 2015. What they could have done is take any talking point they didn't like and wipe it off the net (this is the basic reason rules were put in) and then ban that person or site. Sort of like what the IRS did to conservative sites for Trump.

    Was best to have it dismantled and go back to way it was before 2015. There is already laws in books that take control of illegal acts on the net.

    I think its ridiculous how you reduce everything to "left" vs "right", and then proceed to spew out blatant lies. 
    Sorry you feel that way, unfortunately this is what out Republic is right now, left vs right. I like to call it light vs dark.

    Exactly what was the lie? Obama putting rules in and changing how system works in 2015? That is fact, Trump took those rules out! 
    FlyByKnight
    “The reason I talk to myself is because I’m the only one whose answers I accept.”
    George Carlin
  • zymurgeistzymurgeist Member RarePosts: 5,484
    ScotchUp said:
    YashaX said:
    ScotchUp said:
    AAAMEOW said:
    Sildanair said:
    Means nothing. I played FFXI and WoW all I wanted before 2015.
    Do they have net neutrality before 2015?  I don't know much about the topic.
    https://is.gd/tWz4hd get's a little confusing reading it, but that is what people do on the left to confuse the masses. You know us stupid people. Obama put these rules into effect in 2015. What they could have done is take any talking point they didn't like and wipe it off the net (this is the basic reason rules were put in) and then ban that person or site. Sort of like what the IRS did to conservative sites for Trump.

    Was best to have it dismantled and go back to way it was before 2015. There is already laws in books that take control of illegal acts on the net.

    I think its ridiculous how you reduce everything to "left" vs "right", and then proceed to spew out blatant lies. 
    Sorry you feel that way, unfortunately this is what out Republic is right now, left vs right. I like to call it light vs dark.

    Exactly what was the lie? Obama putting rules in and changing how system works in 2015? That is fact, Trump took those rules out! 

    Actually nothing changed. It's like the government passing regulations saying objects with mass must attract each other. Gravity doesn't care. 

    "We have met the enemy and he is us." ~Pogo Possum. 

  • TillerTiller Member EpicPosts: 8,745
    SWG Bloodfin vet
    Elder Jedi/Elder Bounty Hunter
  • Asm0deusAsm0deus Member EpicPosts: 3,188
    "Why NN is important" made easy for the layman.



    [Deleted User]

    Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.





  • ScotchUpScotchUp Member UncommonPosts: 228
    Asm0deus said:
    "Why NN is important" made easy for the layman.



    LOL, BS, NN is all about only allowing certain news to be allowed on net, has nothing to do with speed. After 8 years of last administration pretty shocked you guys don't get it.
    [Deleted User]
    “The reason I talk to myself is because I’m the only one whose answers I accept.”
    George Carlin
  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Member LegendaryPosts: 8,505
    ScotchUp said:
    Asm0deus said:
    "Why NN is important" made easy for the layman.



    LOL, BS, NN is all about only allowing certain news to be allowed on net, has nothing to do with speed. After 8 years of last administration pretty shocked you guys don't get it.
    I need @Jean-Luc_Picard's avatar here.
    TorvalVrika[Deleted User]

    image
  • ScotchUpScotchUp Member UncommonPosts: 228
    edited January 2018
    ScotchUp said:
    Asm0deus said:
    "Why NN is important" made easy for the layman.



    LOL, BS, NN is all about only allowing certain news to be allowed on net, has nothing to do with speed. After 8 years of last administration pretty shocked you guys don't get it.
    I need @Jean-Luc_Picard's avatar here.
    I bet you think more than rules put in by Obama administration wasn't only thing removed! I could say more but political conversations shouldn't be allowed on our gaming forums. By rights we can't talk politics unless rules have changed?

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    “The reason I talk to myself is because I’m the only one whose answers I accept.”
    George Carlin
  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Member LegendaryPosts: 8,505
    <sigh> this is what we deal with in America these days.

    image
  • FlyByKnightFlyByKnight Member EpicPosts: 3,967
    In other news climate change is a hoax, because somebody lost and it was sorta warm yesterday plus 8 years of a Kenyan. 


    learis1[Deleted User]MadFrenchie
    "As far as the forum code of conduct, I would think it's a bit outdated and in need of a refre *CLOSED*" 

    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  • FlyByKnightFlyByKnight Member EpicPosts: 3,967
    <sigh> this is what we deal with in America these days.
    Man, it would be hilarious if it wasn't so real. I don't know if the extreme stupidity is willful but it doesn't matter as it's dangerous and apparently here to stay. Who knew #Idiocracy was a documentary.
    "As far as the forum code of conduct, I would think it's a bit outdated and in need of a refre *CLOSED*" 

    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Member LegendaryPosts: 8,505
    edited January 2018
    <sigh> this is what we deal with in America these days.
    Man, it would be hilarious if it wasn't so real. I don't know if the extreme stupidity is willful but it doesn't matter as it's dangerous and apparently here to stay. Who knew #Idiocracy was a documentary.
    It makes me love Moira's (Overwatch support character) voice lines.  One in particular:

    "Stupidity is not a right."

    image
  • ScotchUpScotchUp Member UncommonPosts: 228
    edited January 2018
    ScotchUp said:
    Asm0deus said:
    "Why NN is important" made easy for the layman.



    LOL, BS, NN is all about only allowing certain news to be allowed on net, has nothing to do with speed. After 8 years of last administration pretty shocked you guys don't get it.
    You seriously could not be more wrong.
    Sorry only thing removed from NN was what Obama put in in 2015. It's amazing you can attack yet show no proof I was wrong. DONE!
    “The reason I talk to myself is because I’m the only one whose answers I accept.”
    George Carlin
  • QuizzicalQuizzical Member LegendaryPosts: 21,986
    Asm0deus said:
    "Why NN is important" made easy for the layman.



    The basic problem with that analogy is that it assumes that ISPs will go out of their way to make their customers hate them even in ways that hurt the ISP, too.  For-profit businesses hardly ever do that, and ones that do so very often tend to go out of business.

    Burger King could charge different prices for different priorities in getting a whopper right now if they wanted to.  They don't because they have nothing to gain by doing so.  If their goal were to make customers pay more for whoppers, it's far more effective to simply raise the price--something that they could legally do whenever they want, and for any reason they want.
  • QuizzicalQuizzical Member LegendaryPosts: 21,986
    Quizzical said:
    Asm0deus said:
    "Why NN is important" made easy for the layman.



    The basic problem with that analogy is that it assumes that ISPs will go out of their way to make their customers hate them even in ways that hurt the ISP, too.  For-profit businesses hardly ever do that, and ones that do so very often tend to go out of business.

    Burger King could charge different prices for different priorities in getting a whopper right now if they wanted to.  They don't because they have nothing to gain by doing so.  If their goal were to make customers pay more for whoppers, it's far more effective to simply raise the price--something that they could legally do whenever they want, and for any reason they want.
    The basic problem with your perspective is that you don't seem to understand that the dominate ISPs have the power to charge different prices for different priorities without recourse.  Not every market has a Jack-In-The-Box or a McDonalds to go to as an alternative.  To put in bluntly, wake the fuck up!  AT&T and COMCAST could do exactly what is described in this video with ZERO downside in certain markets.  If the markets were truly competitive, like they should be, this wouldn't be a problem, but they aren't.
    Why is it a problem for it to be legal for businesses to shoot themselves in the foot?  You seem to have the idea that extensive regulations are the only thing that can ever stop businesses from doing so.  In reality, the only way Burger King would do anything remotely like what is depicted in the video is if regulations forced them to do so.

    Sure, AT&T and Comcast could decide to crazy things with their business models to gratuitously harass their customers.  If they want to make a lot of money (hint:  they do) and they genuinely have a captive audience, it would be far more effective to simply raise prices across the board.  In addition to generating more revenue, that would also get them a lot less customer ill-will than creating some crazy scheme that no one understands.

    The stuff that you're complaining is now legal with the repeal of regulations that weren't implemented until 2015 was just as legal in 2014.  If companies weren't inclined to commit suicide for the sake of harming their customers then, why would they suddenly want to do so now?

    A general rule of thumb on conspiracy theories is that ones that require someone to be evil for the sake of being evil without getting any personal gain out of it tend to be false.  Many of the hysterical claims about what companies could do but almost certainly won't after the repeal of net neutrality fit firmly in that category.
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