I interact with other players daily in all my MMOs, old and new.
What those older games did is to FORCE people by using FORCED grouping. That kind of mechanics will never be popular again, because player like choice, they don't like to be forced down a single road.
And unless you're antisocial, nobody needs to be FORCED to interact. Social people will do it naturally.
I need to be forced, or at least motivated to be social based on working towards common goals.
I don't naturally interact with others so an assist from the game's mechanics is welcome in my case.
Asheron's Call 1 was a VERY solo friendly game. Yet people grouped all the time. There were well known players who organized server wide runs for the biggest quests. The same could be said about UO.
EQ's "group for dungeons/raids or die" way isn't the only way. Many MMO players think it is because they don't know any better, and the market is submerged by EQ/WoW clones.
There are people I've met in UO and AC1 up to 20 years ago who have become real life friends that I meet regularly nowadays.
Funny thing that, my first game was Lineage 1, which was very solo friendly, yet we regularly grouped up and I met several people there which I still keep in touch with today.
Then I moved to DAOC and it was more like EQ, but while I did level a few characters in the camp or die mode, once solo friendly characters like the necromancer became available I leveled one up and used it to power level any other group centric alts as I have always been a multi boxer.
Yet still I made lots of friends in either mode in that game as well and yes, still in contact with several from there. Heck some were enemies from different realms who became friends on the freeshard years later.
So it continued with Lineage 2, but somewhere in the middle of WOW the wheels came off. Despite starting off with my usual friends list 100 ppl deep, and raiding with 2 different guilds (part of the problem I think) and having level 60s on 3 different servers (another part of the problem perhaps) I have not remained in contact with anyone, from any game since.
Its not because I hang with the same crowd, I am the first to go off and play a new game, regardless if my old friends come with. In any new game I try to utilize what social mechanics there are, but even after 7 years of time in EVE I remain in touch with no one.
Can't really explain what changed, in game or with me. Theories I suspect include lack of forced down time doesn't give me or others much time to "chat" and by that I mean text chat.
So voice comms probably are a big factor, I don't like them for several reasons, use them only for "business" purposes, raiding or PVP but otherwise do my best to eschew them.
In fact, there's a good "corporate " guild Grievance I enjoy gaming with, but their almost maniacal insistence on members being on voice comms at all times keeps me away.
Personally I've changed as well, as other players became more mainstream and less like the original older "nerds" that mostly founded the MMORPG genre I've grown less interested in interacting with them.
It used to be very easy to put together a guild of people that shared my common interests (wasn't just an age thing, guild I lead had members from 16 to 60) and nowadays I rarely can relate.
I actually am not at all interested in a game with a group or die mentality, only reason I loosely follow Pantheon or some others is I'd likely consider playing them only if I can multibox them somehow. (In EVE recently I ran with 6 accounts, a one person mining navy)
If their design is such is that I must group to progress I'll likely pass unless its ultra easy to form lasting relationships, as dungeon finders are too impersonal for my taste and encourage "bad" behavior, or at least has been my experience.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
The core of social interaction is ability to share , give and take visible and invisible things . A seed of interaction can't grow large in a small pot .
You don't need vanilla wow to prove social interaction market , just look at social net games . The market don't hide , it don't need to be proved
Biggest harm to social interaction has always been vertical progression and linear questing.
Those two things alone divide your community into tiny little subsegments and make it really difficult to have meaningful interactions between players. WoW didn't introduce this problem, but it cemented it within the genre to the point where we're still not past it.
Biggest harm to social interaction has always been vertical progression and linear questing.
Those two things alone divide your community into tiny little subsegments and make it really difficult to have meaningful interactions between players. WoW didn't introduce this problem, but it cemented it within the genre to the point where we're still not past it.
Those problems have been mostly eliminated in games like GW2 or ESO though.
True. As I don't play either I don't know how social they are compared to other MMOs.
I'm guessing GW2 might struggle a bit due to lack of roles (I've heard it's a bit of a spam-fest) and ESO's megaserver tech probably prevents long term / larger communities from establishing themselves, but I've heard ESO is at least fairly social on a day to day basis, even if you never see the other person again.
The get x/kill x quests are done faster solo then coordinating with a group. Solo killing is usually faster exp nowadays etc. If this was not the case, more people would group up. If the fastest/easiest way is to solo, people will solo. All people are lazy more or less :P
I don't think it is just about more exp. For me it is just about finishing something.(to clear the quest log)
I think in reading through the thread the changes in game mechanics, technology, and the player's themselves all contribute to the lower levels of player interaction felt to exist by "some" MMORPG fans these days.
I don't think there is a single simple solution either, nor will returning to "the old ways" (if possible or even desirable) will resolve the situation.
We really need some new ideas or fresh takes on previous ones to encourage increased player interaction that don't rely too heavily on making the gameplay so hateful gamers only band together in self defense against the common enemy or achieve some common raid goal.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
well, since the "real" game starts at endgame ( nowadays ), people tend to do the mindnumbing grind to get there . Also, look at korean grinders like bdo and the like. But you bring up a few good points. If the best exp would be to grind in a non-instanced dungeon, people would its just the way people work. I do remember some eq1 camps that were horrible in exp but had good drops insted that was also always camped, like fbss etc etc.
You know, people constantly say that "the game start at the endgame" but that has a few problems:
How big is the endgame in percentage of content to leveling up? 25%? 15%? less?
How much variation is it in the endgame compared to leveling up?
And how fun is the endgame compared leveling up?
The endgame rather suck. If it really is the main gameplay devs need to up their game a lot. No wonder the genre isn't doing so great anymore in the west. Don't put most of your work into a friggin tutorial. I can't believe MMOs havn't done that already years ago.
As for Korean grinders they are still rather easy nowadays unless we are talking PvP. I played the original Lineage in 2001 and there you couldn't friggin solo to max level unless you really played cowardly and grindy. dying made you loose XP (and sometimes gear) and the average difficulty were way harder (slightly below EQ hard though).
While it is possible that in some Korean grinders teaming up with more then 4 people actually speed things up that certainly isn't true for games like Tera, 2 people still levels up there fastest at least but I generally tend to stay away from games labeled "Korean grinders" so I am far from an expert on them nowadays.
I'm only interested in the prospect of having an official WoW server that has no progression treadmill to worry about. Just get up to Tier 3 and be done. World PvP and helping others get their items from thenceforth without worry.
Due to frequent travel in my youth, English isn't something I consider my primary language (and thus I obtained quirky ways of writing). German and French were always easier for me despite my family being U.S. citizens for over a century. Spanish I learned as a requirement in school, Japanese and Korean I acquired for my youthful desire of anime and gaming (and also work now). I only debate in English to help me work with it (and limit things). In addition, I'm not smart enough to remain fluent in everything and typically need exposure to get in the groove of things again if I haven't heard it in a while. If you understand Mandarin, I know a little, but it has actually been a challenge and could use some help.
Also, I thoroughly enjoy debates and have accounts on over a dozen sites for this. If you wish to engage in such, please put effort in a post and provide sources -- I will then do the same with what I already wrote (if I didn't) as well as with my responses to your own. Expanding my information on a subject makes my stance either change or strengthen the next time I speak of it or write a thesis. Allow me to thank you sincerely for your time.
I think in reading through the thread the changes in game mechanics, technology, and the player's themselves all contribute to the lower levels of player interaction felt to exist by "some" MMORPG fans these days.
I don't think there is a single simple solution either, nor will returning to "the old ways" (if possible or even desirable) will resolve the situation.
We really need some new ideas or fresh takes on previous ones to encourage increased player interaction that don't rely too heavily on making the gameplay so hateful gamers only band together in self defense against the common enemy or achieve some common raid goal.
Yes, you are probably right there but even backing levelingspeed to vanilla style would at least help somewhat.
MMOs should encourage but not force interaction. Use the carrot instead of the stick and don't reward people to play as lonewolves.
Also, I think that the entire group combat dynamics of MMOs need a lot of improvement. Supporting eachother needs to become more important and skills from different players should combine to something useful. That said, players should not stay next to eachothers all the time in combat to get more buffs (common in GW2 to mention one game), it makes it more boring.
I think in reading through the thread the changes in game mechanics, technology, and the player's themselves all contribute to the lower levels of player interaction felt to exist by "some" MMORPG fans these days.
I don't think there is a single simple solution either, nor will returning to "the old ways" (if possible or even desirable) will resolve the situation.
We really need some new ideas or fresh takes on previous ones to encourage increased player interaction that don't rely too heavily on making the gameplay so hateful gamers only band together in self defense against the common enemy or achieve some common raid goal.
Yes, you are probably right there but even backing levelingspeed to vanilla style would at least help somewhat.
MMOs should encourage but not force interaction. Use the carrot instead of the stick and don't reward people to play as lonewolves.
Also, I think that the entire group combat dynamics of MMOs need a lot of improvement. Supporting eachother needs to become more important and skills from different players should combine to something useful. That said, players should not stay next to eachothers all the time in combat to get more buffs (common in GW2 to mention one game), it makes it more boring.
Fast leveling speed is not for the player, it's to give less content. Lets say 15 days maybe ?
Group combat dynamics and supporting each other are not encouraged because balancing takes time. Time equals money....... Lone wolves blasting through content is much easer for developers.
Fast leveling speed is not for the player, it's to give less content. Lets say 15 days maybe ?
Group combat dynamics and supporting each other are not encouraged because balancing takes time. Time equals money....... Lone wolves blasting through content is much easer for developers.
I have to say that the amount of leveling content is still rather more then you need for the fast leveling speed in most MMOs, they havn't really changed the ratio between leveling and endgame content and most MMOs have plenty of zones for most if not all leveling ranges so I don't think it really is the amount of content that is the problem.
And considering the amount of players that actually raid I don't think the devs really thought things through. Wow did speed up the leveling speed from EQ when it released and it was a huge success but they have speeded things up several times since and I have a feeling they gone way too far.
But the game is not really made that differently today, it is just the speed you level and questrewards (that are more XP and gear).
You are certainly right about soloers but there you have a different problem: there is no endgame at all for soloers so they roll an alt, maybe even 2. Then they quit.
These are the reasons people spend shorter time in the same game now compared to earlier, it is not that younger gamers can't stay focused, the game just ain't long term fun anymore. That is also why many games sell gear in their itemshop, that way they can cash in fast before the player move away to something else.
MMOs are expensive to make so they need longterm players to be successful. The fast levelingspeed and lack of improved endgame is slowly killing the genre for us. Yeah, just increasing the levelingtime again wont magically make MMOs as popular as 8 years ago but it certainly wouldn't hurt, unless they actually figure out a new and more fun endgame.
The fast levelingspeed and lack of improved endgame is slowly killing the genre for us.
So maybe it's time to stop designing games around an "end game" and to go back to the roots (UO, AC1) where the game started not at max level but as soon as you log in your first character?
Got to keep the insta-gratification crowd happy aswell, hard thing to balance.
I'm absolutely convinced theirs no such thing as an insta-gratification crowed... This is a marketing trick for cheap games online.
People will play anything, that's why they are short term large populations !!
The fast levelingspeed and lack of improved endgame is slowly killing the genre for us.
So maybe it's time to stop designing games around an "end game" and to go back to the roots (UO, AC1) where the game started not at max level but as soon as you log in your first character?
Got to keep the insta-gratification crowd happy aswell, hard thing to balance.
I'm absolutely convinced theirs no such thing as an insta-gratification crowed... This is a marketing trick for cheap games online.
You're delusional then. We live in an era of short attention span, fast rewards and as little work, effort and money spent as possible. People want free movies, games, books, etc... The amount of young adults that can't even write or read their native language correctly is increasing every year, that's a sign too.
We live in a world of short attention span, and I'm delusional
Everyone always wanted free movies books and games. Many of them show up here on mmorpg.com.... what better way to find free games like F2P games.
If were both alive 50 years from now, will have this conversation again when we have space travel and Doctors that have cured cancer !
I'm not convinced there is an instant gratification crowd either. Early MMOs only attracted nerdy characters and freaks. I was one of the freaks I guess though I was also a bit nerdy. Now MMOs attract many different people who don't want to spend much time in the game and don't really care about it. These people want to jump in quickly, do something, and jump out. This is why most things are ruined once they hit mainstream or at least ruined for the people who are really interested in them.
The fast levelingspeed and lack of improved endgame is slowly killing the genre for us.
So maybe it's time to stop designing games around an "end game" and to go back to the roots (UO, AC1) where the game started not at max level but as soon as you log in your first character?
Got to keep the insta-gratification crowd happy aswell, hard thing to balance.
I'm absolutely convinced theirs no such thing as an insta-gratification crowed... This is a marketing trick for cheap games online.
You're delusional then. We live in an era of short attention span, fast rewards and as little work, effort and money spent as possible. People want free movies, games, books, etc... The amount of young adults that can't even write or read their native language correctly is increasing every year, that's a sign too.
We live in a world of short attention span, and I'm delusional
Everyone always wanted free movies books and games. Many of them show up here on mmorpg.com.... what better way to find free games like F2P games.
If were both alive 50 years from now, will have this conversation again when we have space travel and Doctors that have cured cancer !
You know, we had space travel.....50 years ago...... and many cancers are now curable.....
But where the hell is my flying car and jetpack, still waiting on those two. (someone was supposed to invent anti-gravity by now, I think the French, so we can blame them)
Is it really an issue of "insta-gratification", or more of a matter of many players wanting "continual" gratification. No longer do they have the patience to "wait for the fun" to start, or the rewards to flow in.
My guess is they aren't too fond of working 40+ years to retire in style, they want fun and excitement now. Wait, so do I these days, so count me among the horde.
I do want something a bit different in MMORPG's however, so hoping some of the newer games will deliver something of interest.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
The fast levelingspeed and lack of improved endgame is slowly killing the genre for us.
So maybe it's time to stop designing games around an "end game" and to go back to the roots (UO, AC1) where the game started not at max level but as soon as you log in your first character?
Got to keep the insta-gratification crowd happy aswell, hard thing to balance.
I'm absolutely convinced theirs no such thing as an insta-gratification crowed... This is a marketing trick for cheap games online.
You're delusional then. We live in an era of short attention span, fast rewards and as little work, effort and money spent as possible. People want free movies, games, books, etc... The amount of young adults that can't even write or read their native language correctly is increasing every year, that's a sign too.
“The children now love luxury. They have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise.”
Yeah, that is Socrates. Honestly are things not that bad, and even if they are designing a MMO for someone with a short attention span is totally pointless since they will be gone from it after a couple of weeks just like they will from a cheap single player game.
You need long term fun for a MMORPG. If that long term fun is during leveling (if you even have levels) or in the endgame doesn't matter but just having a couple of weeks fun in a game that cost that much is a very bad business proposition unless you can get several times the players Wow had at it's top or if you can microtransition them like there is no tomorrow for the few weeks they stay.
The AAA publishers finally figured that out but decided to stop making MMOs instead of actually solving the issue. I guess they hope someone else will so they can rip them off safely in the future, requires less risk, work and thought.
And yeah, I think there is still plenty of people around that will pay for a long term fun MMO, if you can't find enough people like that maybe you are aiming for the wrong age cathegory.
You know, we had space travel.....50 years ago...... and many cancers are now curable.....
But where the hell is my flying car and jetpack, still waiting on those two. (someone was supposed to invent anti-gravity by now, I think the French, so we can blame them)
Is it really an issue of "insta-gratification", or more of a matter of many players wanting "continual" gratification. No longer do they have the patience to "wait for the fun" to start, or the rewards to flow in.
My guess is they aren't too fond of working 40+ years to retire in style, they want fun and excitement now. Wait, so do I these days, so count me among the horde.
I do want something a bit different in MMORPG's however, so hoping some of the newer games will deliver something of interest.
I always wanted a jet pack, thought they would be big by now.... I guess you could blame the EQ1 player generation for not having this !
They do exist and have since the 60s so if you really wanted one and could afford it nothing is stopping you. It is just that they never really been a mainstream thing since they are pretty dangerous and that the fuel limits how long they can be in the air rather much.
A flying car have far more potential then a jetpack but that wont happen until regular cars drive themselves without a driver, and not just as a experiment. There is also the matter of fuel consumption for them as well but at least they can carry enough fuel to be useful.
Sci-fi authors and popular science magazines tend to overestimate transportation technology and underestimate communication technology. Heh, when Shadowrun released in 1990 I was impressed of SRs cellular phones but it just took 5 years before similar phones became common IRL instead of 60 years.
Screw your jetpacks and hoverboards.....where is my automated workforce!
I'm still waiting for a future where we basically don't have to work, it's all automated and the vast majority of our needs are met for free. Robots / AI to do the farming, tend the cattle, run the shops, deliver goods to our houses, fly me to my holiday destinations, build us homes, run the utilities etc!
The removal of the need to work would then free us all up to focus on "higher" things - learning languages, exploring societal structures, learning new art forms, playing sports, exercising, researching new things. We'd all be happier, fitter and more peaceful.
I think it would be the exact opposite actually. Many many studies have shown that work is an extremely important aspect of a person's psych. By and large those that don't work have significantly increased risk of all known morbidities.
Those that don't work are generally less fit, more depressed, sicker more often, more withdrawn and less happy.
Robots may do more things but I bet you we would still work.
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
- Flying mounts. When people fly, they rarely meet. The world is empty except at the latest content spots. Another side effect is that it kills world PvP. This can be experienced in WoW first hand since TBC.
It's empty in older content but it has nothing to do with flying. People are in zones like northrend, pandaria, and draenor for maybe a day before they move onto the next. Broken Isles has flying too and most of the players I see are flying but there's wpvp a plenty here. As a matter of fact, because Blizzard handles balance and scaling like a toddler handles fine china, I wish there was less of it.
Comments
Then I moved to DAOC and it was more like EQ, but while I did level a few characters in the camp or die mode, once solo friendly characters like the necromancer became available I leveled one up and used it to power level any other group centric alts as I have always been a multi boxer.
Yet still I made lots of friends in either mode in that game as well and yes, still in contact with several from there. Heck some were enemies from different realms who became friends on the freeshard years later.
So it continued with Lineage 2, but somewhere in the middle of WOW the wheels came off. Despite starting off with my usual friends list 100 ppl deep, and raiding with 2 different guilds (part of the problem I think) and having level 60s on 3 different servers (another part of the problem perhaps) I have not remained in contact with anyone, from any game since.
Its not because I hang with the same crowd, I am the first to go off and play a new game, regardless if my old friends come with. In any new game I try to utilize what social mechanics there are, but even after 7 years of time in EVE I remain in touch with no one.
Can't really explain what changed, in game or with me. Theories I suspect include lack of forced down time doesn't give me or others much time to "chat" and by that I mean text chat.
So voice comms probably are a big factor, I don't like them for several reasons, use them only for "business" purposes, raiding or PVP but otherwise do my best to eschew them.
In fact, there's a good "corporate " guild Grievance I enjoy gaming with, but their almost maniacal insistence on members being on voice comms at all times keeps me away.
Personally I've changed as well, as other players became more mainstream and less like the original older "nerds" that mostly founded the MMORPG genre I've grown less interested in interacting with them.
It used to be very easy to put together a guild of people that shared my common interests (wasn't just an age thing, guild I lead had members from 16 to 60) and nowadays I rarely can relate.
I actually am not at all interested in a game with a group or die mentality, only reason I loosely follow Pantheon or some others is I'd likely consider playing them only if I can multibox them somehow. (In EVE recently I ran with 6 accounts, a one person mining navy)
If their design is such is that I must group to progress I'll likely pass unless its ultra easy to form lasting relationships, as dungeon finders are too impersonal for my taste and encourage "bad" behavior, or at least has been my experience.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
A seed of interaction can't grow large in a small pot .
You don't need vanilla wow to prove social interaction market , just look at social net games . The market don't hide , it don't need to be proved
Those two things alone divide your community into tiny little subsegments and make it really difficult to have meaningful interactions between players. WoW didn't introduce this problem, but it cemented it within the genre to the point where we're still not past it.
I'm guessing GW2 might struggle a bit due to lack of roles (I've heard it's a bit of a spam-fest) and ESO's megaserver tech probably prevents long term / larger communities from establishing themselves, but I've heard ESO is at least fairly social on a day to day basis, even if you never see the other person again.
I don't think there is a single simple solution either, nor will returning to "the old ways" (if possible or even desirable) will resolve the situation.
We really need some new ideas or fresh takes on previous ones to encourage increased player interaction that don't rely too heavily on making the gameplay so hateful gamers only band together in self defense against the common enemy or achieve some common raid goal.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
How big is the endgame in percentage of content to leveling up? 25%? 15%? less?
How much variation is it in the endgame compared to leveling up?
And how fun is the endgame compared leveling up?
The endgame rather suck. If it really is the main gameplay devs need to up their game a lot. No wonder the genre isn't doing so great anymore in the west. Don't put most of your work into a friggin tutorial. I can't believe MMOs havn't done that already years ago.
As for Korean grinders they are still rather easy nowadays unless we are talking PvP. I played the original Lineage in 2001 and there you couldn't friggin solo to max level unless you really played cowardly and grindy. dying made you loose XP (and sometimes gear) and the average difficulty were way harder (slightly below EQ hard though).
While it is possible that in some Korean grinders teaming up with more then 4 people actually speed things up that certainly isn't true for games like Tera, 2 people still levels up there fastest at least but I generally tend to stay away from games labeled "Korean grinders" so I am far from an expert on them nowadays.
MMOs should encourage but not force interaction. Use the carrot instead of the stick and don't reward people to play as lonewolves.
Also, I think that the entire group combat dynamics of MMOs need a lot of improvement. Supporting eachother needs to become more important and skills from different players should combine to something useful. That said, players should not stay next to eachothers all the time in combat to get more buffs (common in GW2 to mention one game), it makes it more boring.
I decided not to change my spelling habits...... So " they're "
Fast leveling speed is not for the player, it's to give less content. Lets say 15 days maybe ?
Group combat dynamics and supporting each other are not encouraged because balancing takes time. Time equals money....... Lone wolves blasting through content is much easer for developers.
And considering the amount of players that actually raid I don't think the devs really thought things through. Wow did speed up the leveling speed from EQ when it released and it was a huge success but they have speeded things up several times since and I have a feeling they gone way too far.
But the game is not really made that differently today, it is just the speed you level and questrewards (that are more XP and gear).
You are certainly right about soloers but there you have a different problem: there is no endgame at all for soloers so they roll an alt, maybe even 2. Then they quit.
These are the reasons people spend shorter time in the same game now compared to earlier, it is not that younger gamers can't stay focused, the game just ain't long term fun anymore. That is also why many games sell gear in their itemshop, that way they can cash in fast before the player move away to something else.
MMOs are expensive to make so they need longterm players to be successful. The fast levelingspeed and lack of improved endgame is slowly killing the genre for us. Yeah, just increasing the levelingtime again wont magically make MMOs as popular as 8 years ago but it certainly wouldn't hurt, unless they actually figure out a new and more fun endgame.
I'm absolutely convinced theirs no such thing as an insta-gratification crowed... This is a marketing trick for cheap games online.
People will play anything, that's why they are short term large populations !!
We live in a world of short attention span, and I'm delusional
Everyone always wanted free movies books and games. Many of them show up here on mmorpg.com.... what better way to find free games like F2P games.
If were both alive 50 years from now, will have this conversation again when we have space travel and Doctors that have cured cancer !
But where the hell is my flying car and jetpack, still waiting on those two. (someone was supposed to invent anti-gravity by now, I think the French, so we can blame them)
Is it really an issue of "insta-gratification", or more of a matter of many players wanting "continual" gratification. No longer do they have the patience to "wait for the fun" to start, or the rewards to flow in.
My guess is they aren't too fond of working 40+ years to retire in style, they want fun and excitement now. Wait, so do I these days, so count me among the horde.
I do want something a bit different in MMORPG's however, so hoping some of the newer games will deliver something of interest.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
“The children now love luxury. They have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise.”
Yeah, that is Socrates. Honestly are things not that bad, and even if they are designing a MMO for someone with a short attention span is totally pointless since they will be gone from it after a couple of weeks just like they will from a cheap single player game.
You need long term fun for a MMORPG. If that long term fun is during leveling (if you even have levels) or in the endgame doesn't matter but just having a couple of weeks fun in a game that cost that much is a very bad business proposition unless you can get several times the players Wow had at it's top or if you can microtransition them like there is no tomorrow for the few weeks they stay.
The AAA publishers finally figured that out but decided to stop making MMOs instead of actually solving the issue. I guess they hope someone else will so they can rip them off safely in the future, requires less risk, work and thought.
And yeah, I think there is still plenty of people around that will pay for a long term fun MMO, if you can't find enough people like that maybe you are aiming for the wrong age cathegory.
A flying car have far more potential then a jetpack but that wont happen until regular cars drive themselves without a driver, and not just as a experiment. There is also the matter of fuel consumption for them as well but at least they can carry enough fuel to be useful.
Sci-fi authors and popular science magazines tend to overestimate transportation technology and underestimate communication technology. Heh, when Shadowrun released in 1990 I was impressed of SRs cellular phones but it just took 5 years before similar phones became common IRL instead of 60 years.
I'm still waiting for a future where we basically don't have to work, it's all automated and the vast majority of our needs are met for free. Robots / AI to do the farming, tend the cattle, run the shops, deliver goods to our houses, fly me to my holiday destinations, build us homes, run the utilities etc!
The removal of the need to work would then free us all up to focus on "higher" things - learning languages, exploring societal structures, learning new art forms, playing sports, exercising, researching new things. We'd all be happier, fitter and more peaceful.
Those that don't work are generally less fit, more depressed, sicker more often, more withdrawn and less happy.
Robots may do more things but I bet you we would still work.
It's empty in older content but it has nothing to do with flying. People are in zones like northrend, pandaria, and draenor for maybe a day before they move onto the next. Broken Isles has flying too and most of the players I see are flying but there's wpvp a plenty here. As a matter of fact, because Blizzard handles balance and scaling like a toddler handles fine china, I wish there was less of it.