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DAOC - 17 years later

LuidenLuiden Member UncommonPosts: 249
It's interesting to me that after 17 years of DAOC being released that there hasn't been a single company/game that has tried to create this experience or game model.  Is it because game companies just don't understand it?  They don't understand just how different RvR is from PvP?  It had a perfect marriage between PvE and RvR and for some reason nobody has tried to emulate or clone it?  It just seems odd to me with so many WoW or Korean clones that nobody is willing to take a chance on probably the most dynamic and interesting game play we have ever seen in a MMORPG.  What's the disconnect?
Thunder073PsYcHoGBR
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Comments

  • ColdrenColdren Member UncommonPosts: 486
    ... ESO? It's pretty close.. And made by many of the same team members that made DAoC.

    Just without the classes, really. 
    ScotCelcius
  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 26,394
    Luiden said:
    It's interesting to me that after 17 years of DAOC being released that there hasn't been a single company/game that has tried to create this experience or game model.  Is it because game companies just don't understand it?  They don't understand just how different RvR is from PvP?  It had a perfect marriage between PvE and RvR and for some reason nobody has tried to emulate or clone it?  It just seems odd to me with so many WoW or Korean clones that nobody is willing to take a chance on probably the most dynamic and interesting game play we have ever seen in a MMORPG.  What's the disconnect?
    I'm going with different players.

    People who played the heck out of Dark Age of Camelot like to tout "realm pride'. I can assure you, realm pride is sort of dead. At least for the inundation of the new type of player who just doesn't care.

    I played Aion thinking "awesome, it's us against them". But in truth my side was just as quick to grief its own members as the other side was to attack us.

    Just because there's a faction system doesn't mean that people will sign on whole heartedly. Now, maybe if they made the games where you had to socialize, had to be part of the group otherwise things couldn't get done. That might work but then you get the "it's forced grouping" (which it's not, no one is "forcing them to play the game".)
    MadFrenchieMrMelGibsonSedrynTyrosHawkaya399



  • AAAMEOWAAAMEOW Member UncommonPosts: 949
    People involved in warhammer online, GW2, and ESO all come from DAOC.  

    I think the point is making a game "only" about RvR instead of making a mmorpg which include RvR.  I don't know if it'll be successful in the current era.
  • ScotchUpScotchUp Member UncommonPosts: 228
    edited December 2017
    ESO was suppose to work exactly like DAOC.

    http://tamrielfoundry.com/2013/02/eso-daoc-legacy/

    Sad pvp is so messed up, almost non-playable most of time for a lot of players.

    If they couldn't get pvp lag to get better after this long we will never see any game play like we had with DAOC.

    They made the big change in world where you can go anywhere also hurt the pvp crowd.

    The game could have been so much more. Sad really, I go back every now and then but pvp never seems to get a lot of love.

    “The reason I talk to myself is because I’m the only one whose answers I accept.”
    George Carlin
  • ColdrenColdren Member UncommonPosts: 486
    ScotchUp said:
    ESO was suppose to work exactly like DAOC.

    http://tamrielfoundry.com/2013/02/eso-daoc-legacy/

    Sad pvp is so messed up, almost non-playable most of time for a lot of players.

    If they couldn't get pvp lag to get better after this long we will never see any game play like we had with DAOC.

    They made the big change in world where you can go anywhere also hurt the pvp crowd.

    The game could have been so much more. Sad really, I go back every now and then but pvp never seems to get a lot of love.


    I agree the lag is a big issue, though I disagree that "go anywhere" hurt PvP, at least when I last played. When I queued up for RvR, I fought people of other factions, no matter what I did in PvE. Sure, the coordination between factions (Green Alliance, at the time) was annoyance, but that kind of thing also went on in DAoC, just not on such a massive scale.

    Also just occurred to me - Camelot Unchained is on it's way too!
  • LetsinodLetsinod Member UncommonPosts: 384
    Isnt Camelot Unchained supposed to bridge this gap?
    SedrynTyrosJamesGoblin
  • ScotchUpScotchUp Member UncommonPosts: 228
    edited December 2017
    I guess it's all in the taste of the player. Yet, this game could be so much more. The beauty of the game will stand for years.

    To get pvp lag to work great for all may need a new engine under it, and we all know that won't happen.

    Thing is no matter how upset I get with game at times, I keep going back. B)

    Sorry for going little off topic. Yes, I still login to DAOC at times and it brings a lot of great memories back.
    “The reason I talk to myself is because I’m the only one whose answers I accept.”
    George Carlin
  • ElidienElidien Member RarePosts: 1,368
    To me it was not just the RVR and the realm pride, it was the classes. DAOC still had some of the most unique and different classes. I have yet to really find a Thane or Friar in any game I have played since. Sure some come close but they still miss the mark.

    I spent years on Igraine (Alb) and Gaheris (Thane). I still have so many memories of that game.
  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Member LegendaryPosts: 8,483
    Sovrath said:
    Luiden said:
    It's interesting to me that after 17 years of DAOC being released that there hasn't been a single company/game that has tried to create this experience or game model.  Is it because game companies just don't understand it?  They don't understand just how different RvR is from PvP?  It had a perfect marriage between PvE and RvR and for some reason nobody has tried to emulate or clone it?  It just seems odd to me with so many WoW or Korean clones that nobody is willing to take a chance on probably the most dynamic and interesting game play we have ever seen in a MMORPG.  What's the disconnect?
    I'm going with different players.

    People who played the heck out of Dark Age of Camelot like to tout "realm pride'. I can assure you, realm pride is sort of dead. At least for the inundation of the new type of player who just doesn't care.

    I played Aion thinking "awesome, it's us against them". But in truth my side was just as quick to grief its own members as the other side was to attack us.

    Just because there's a faction system doesn't mean that people will sign on whole heartedly. Now, maybe if they made the games where you had to socialize, had to be part of the group otherwise things couldn't get done. That might work but then you get the "it's forced grouping" (which it's not, no one is "forcing them to play the game".)
    The advent of cross-realm grouping did wonders to kill "realm pride" or "faction pride."

    Without being familiar with your side, there's no added emotional incentive to defend your side.

    And your last paragraph is super apropos.  +1
    some-clueless-guySedrynTyrosAmatheSovrath

    image
  • TokkenTokken Member RarePosts: 2,069
    edited December 2017
    wish they would make a ...........

    DAOC 2....... with modern engine and graphics.

    MadFrenchieScotchUpScot
    Make PvE GREAT Again!
  • ElidienElidien Member RarePosts: 1,368
    Sovrath said:
    Luiden said:
    It's interesting to me that after 17 years of DAOC being released that there hasn't been a single company/game that has tried to create this experience or game model.  Is it because game companies just don't understand it?  They don't understand just how different RvR is from PvP?  It had a perfect marriage between PvE and RvR and for some reason nobody has tried to emulate or clone it?  It just seems odd to me with so many WoW or Korean clones that nobody is willing to take a chance on probably the most dynamic and interesting game play we have ever seen in a MMORPG.  What's the disconnect?
    I'm going with different players.

    People who played the heck out of Dark Age of Camelot like to tout "realm pride'. I can assure you, realm pride is sort of dead. At least for the inundation of the new type of player who just doesn't care.

    I played Aion thinking "awesome, it's us against them". But in truth my side was just as quick to grief its own members as the other side was to attack us.

    Just because there's a faction system doesn't mean that people will sign on whole heartedly. Now, maybe if they made the games where you had to socialize, had to be part of the group otherwise things couldn't get done. That might work but then you get the "it's forced grouping" (which it's not, no one is "forcing them to play the game".)
    The advent of cross-realm grouping did wonders to kill "realm pride" or "faction pride."

    Without being familiar with your side, there's no added emotional incentive to defend your side.

    And your last paragraph is super apropos.  +1
    I would go a step further and say its killed guild pride. Games in which you can be in multiple guilds or represent one guild one day and another another day, just seems to hurt the social aspect of gaming. Yes in some ways its more social (as in "look how many facebook friends I have but never talk too kinda way) but it hurts building deeper friendships. I still remember the name of the person who recruited me in DAOC at launch, the name of the guild, and the names of most of the top players. I cannot do that with other games. I also think some of it is the super-saturation of the gaming market as players game jump now and you have big gaming groups that play many, many games.

    On a side-note, thanks to this thread and I having to dip my toes back into the DAOC waters. :)
    MadFrenchieHawkaya399
  • ColdrenColdren Member UncommonPosts: 486
    edited December 2017
    Tokken said:
    wish they would make a ...........

    DAOC 2....... with modern engine and graphics.


    Heh.. Remember when Mythic trolled us in Warhammer Online, by making that portal that lead to Cotswold in the new game engine?

    I'll never forgive them for that :frowning:
  • DrDread74DrDread74 Member UncommonPosts: 308
    Luiden said:
    It's interesting to me that after 17 years of DAOC being released that there hasn't been a single company/game that has tried to create this experience or game model.  Is it because game companies just don't understand it?  They don't understand just how different RvR is from PvP?  It had a perfect marriage between PvE and RvR and for some reason nobody has tried to emulate or clone it?  It just seems odd to me with so many WoW or Korean clones that nobody is willing to take a chance on probably the most dynamic and interesting game play we have ever seen in a MMORPG.  What's the disconnect?
    Nobody is replicating the model because they are too buys making 10x more money with loot boxes =)

    http://baronsofthegalaxy.com/
     An MMO game I created, solo. It's live now and absolutely free to play!
  • Lord.BachusLord.Bachus Member RarePosts: 9,624
    Its almost unthinkable that any company would give players this day a 1 minute Area of Effect Mzz that could just as easilly mezz 2 as it could 80 people..

    Yet these distinct and powerfull class roles made DAoC special...  
    Xoph

    Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)

  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 32,767
    Letsinod said:
    Isnt Camelot Unchained supposed to bridge this gap?
    Someday whenever it gets around to being released,  but even then it won't be DAOC 2, more like a fragment of the original.

    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing POE at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

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  • AAAMEOWAAAMEOW Member UncommonPosts: 949
    Tokken said:
    wish they would make a ...........

    DAOC 2....... with modern engine and graphics.

    They probably need to keep the graphic terrible else it'll lag.  Or they'll need to hide much of the graphic detail during zerg fight.
  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 11,170
    edited December 2017
    Both Warhammer and ESO are the successors to DAOC. But they never really lived up to the expectation when it comes to realm versus realm.

    By the time Warhammer was released, MMOs had already started the unwinnable graphic arms race with solo games. That race, to make a game that has huge number of people in it also have graphics as good as games that have one player, is at the heart of many of the MMO design issues we have today. 
    Kyleran

     25 Agrees

    You received 25 Agrees. You're posting some good content. Great!

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  • rojoArcueidrojoArcueid Member EpicPosts: 9,868
    edited December 2017
    AAAMEOW said:
    People involved in warhammer online, GW2, and ESO all come from DAOC.  

    I think the point is making a game "only" about RvR instead of making a mmorpg which include RvR.  I don't know if it'll be successful in the current era.
    RvR is a small portion of the game. If that becomes the main focus and they leave the rest of the game as a crappy afterthought then the game will die faster than if they focus on the bigger part of the game.

    I think there is enough room to make both RvR and the rest of the game top notch.




  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 32,767
    AAAMEOW said:
    People involved in warhammer online, GW2, and ESO all come from DAOC.  

    I think the point is making a game "only" about RvR instead of making a mmorpg which include RvR.  I don't know if it'll be successful in the current era.
    RvR is a small portion of the game. If that becomes the main focus and they leave the rest of the game as a crappy afterthought then the game will die faster than if they focus on the bigger part of the game.

    I think there is enough room to make both RvR and the rest of the game top notch.
    Mark Jacobs is betting you are wrong as CU is all about the RVR from DAOC without (for the most part) the rest of the game.

    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing POE at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 32,767
    AAAMEOW said:
    Tokken said:
    wish they would make a ...........

    DAOC 2....... with modern engine and graphics.

    They probably need to keep the graphic terrible else it'll lag.  Or they'll need to hide much of the graphic detail during zerg fight.
    Well, CU has demonstrated their engine can manage large fights of over 1K players with reasonable graphics and performance, we'll see how well it works in the release.

    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing POE at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • LuidenLuiden Member UncommonPosts: 249
    Kyleran said:
    AAAMEOW said:
    People involved in warhammer online, GW2, and ESO all come from DAOC.  

    I think the point is making a game "only" about RvR instead of making a mmorpg which include RvR.  I don't know if it'll be successful in the current era.
    RvR is a small portion of the game. If that becomes the main focus and they leave the rest of the game as a crappy afterthought then the game will die faster than if they focus on the bigger part of the game.

    I think there is enough room to make both RvR and the rest of the game top notch.
    Mark Jacobs is betting you are wrong as CU is all about the RVR from DAOC without (for the most part) the rest of the game.

    That's why I don't see CU as something a lot of DAOC are going to like.  Yes they are excited about it, but what made DAOC great was the diversity in the game... RvR was big, but for a lot of players supporting RvR through PvE was even greater.  I know Mark is betting that PvE doesn't matter, but I think he may lose on that bet.  Or more correctly, the game may be successful but it wont be successful like a true DAOC 2 would be.
  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 11,170
    Luiden said:
    Kyleran said:
    AAAMEOW said:
    People involved in warhammer online, GW2, and ESO all come from DAOC.  

    I think the point is making a game "only" about RvR instead of making a mmorpg which include RvR.  I don't know if it'll be successful in the current era.
    RvR is a small portion of the game. If that becomes the main focus and they leave the rest of the game as a crappy afterthought then the game will die faster than if they focus on the bigger part of the game.

    I think there is enough room to make both RvR and the rest of the game top notch.
    Mark Jacobs is betting you are wrong as CU is all about the RVR from DAOC without (for the most part) the rest of the game.

    That's why I don't see CU as something a lot of DAOC are going to like.  Yes they are excited about it, but what made DAOC great was the diversity in the game... RvR was big, but for a lot of players supporting RvR through PvE was even greater.  I know Mark is betting that PvE doesn't matter, but I think he may lose on that bet.  Or more correctly, the game may be successful but it wont be successful like a true DAOC 2 would be.

    MMO's benefit from diversity of gameplay as long as they do not have conflicting systems. But more gameplay equals more development costs. I agree CU will not be DAOC 2, we will have to judge it by its own merits as we should every new release.

     25 Agrees

    You received 25 Agrees. You're posting some good content. Great!

    - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

    Now Doesn't That Make You Feel All Warm And Fuzzy Inside? :P

  • LuidenLuiden Member UncommonPosts: 249
    Scot said:
    Luiden said:
    Kyleran said:
    AAAMEOW said:
    People involved in warhammer online, GW2, and ESO all come from DAOC.  

    I think the point is making a game "only" about RvR instead of making a mmorpg which include RvR.  I don't know if it'll be successful in the current era.
    RvR is a small portion of the game. If that becomes the main focus and they leave the rest of the game as a crappy afterthought then the game will die faster than if they focus on the bigger part of the game.

    I think there is enough room to make both RvR and the rest of the game top notch.
    Mark Jacobs is betting you are wrong as CU is all about the RVR from DAOC without (for the most part) the rest of the game.

    That's why I don't see CU as something a lot of DAOC are going to like.  Yes they are excited about it, but what made DAOC great was the diversity in the game... RvR was big, but for a lot of players supporting RvR through PvE was even greater.  I know Mark is betting that PvE doesn't matter, but I think he may lose on that bet.  Or more correctly, the game may be successful but it wont be successful like a true DAOC 2 would be.

    MMO's benefit from diversity of gameplay as long as they do not have conflicting systems. But more gameplay equals more development costs. I agree CU will not be DAOC 2, we will have to judge it by its own merits as we should every new release.
    There are more costs.. but I don't think that's a factor in this situation.  There isn't a publisher like EA who is forcing their hand.. it's crowdfunded and from what I can tell they have more money than they know what to do with... so maybe it's more of a function of time?  I don't know, but I would like them to be more ambitious with their vision.. but that's just me.
  • kitaradkitarad Member EpicPosts: 4,958
    I don't like PvP but DAoC style is not bad because your PvE is relatively PvP free and you go to the frontiers to PvP  which is totally acceptable for me and one I can indulge in.

  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Member LegendaryPosts: 8,483
    Luiden said:
    Scot said:
    Luiden said:
    Kyleran said:
    AAAMEOW said:
    People involved in warhammer online, GW2, and ESO all come from DAOC.  

    I think the point is making a game "only" about RvR instead of making a mmorpg which include RvR.  I don't know if it'll be successful in the current era.
    RvR is a small portion of the game. If that becomes the main focus and they leave the rest of the game as a crappy afterthought then the game will die faster than if they focus on the bigger part of the game.

    I think there is enough room to make both RvR and the rest of the game top notch.
    Mark Jacobs is betting you are wrong as CU is all about the RVR from DAOC without (for the most part) the rest of the game.

    That's why I don't see CU as something a lot of DAOC are going to like.  Yes they are excited about it, but what made DAOC great was the diversity in the game... RvR was big, but for a lot of players supporting RvR through PvE was even greater.  I know Mark is betting that PvE doesn't matter, but I think he may lose on that bet.  Or more correctly, the game may be successful but it wont be successful like a true DAOC 2 would be.

    MMO's benefit from diversity of gameplay as long as they do not have conflicting systems. But more gameplay equals more development costs. I agree CU will not be DAOC 2, we will have to judge it by its own merits as we should every new release.
    There are more costs.. but I don't think that's a factor in this situation.  There isn't a publisher like EA who is forcing their hand.. it's crowdfunded and from what I can tell they have more money than they know what to do with... so maybe it's more of a function of time?  I don't know, but I would like them to be more ambitious with their vision.. but that's just me.
    PvE content is much more labor-intensive than PvP content.  This was probably a large contributing factor.

    I'd certainly like to see them add supporting PvE content once it's released.  Something that contributes indirectly to the PvP core.  But if they're focused on getting the PvP done right on a large scale, I can accept PvE being left out or cut back.  Depends upon how much more enjoyable the RvR will be for the focus they're putting on it.

    image
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