The real question is what game didn't wipe during testing phase? No talking about early access, but I've never played a game where characters weren't wiped. Most recently, even archeage and bdo which had a early access of a few days, still wiped the characters from test.
The real question is what game didn't wipe during testing phase? No talking about early access, but I've never played a game where characters weren't wiped. Most recently, even archeage and bdo which had a early access of a few days, still wiped the characters from test.
Have there been any recent pre-launch testing periods where the test characters were actually removed upon release?
My impression is that entirely too many players are simply using the alpha, beta, whatever testing phase as an early launch, and the game companies are entirely okay with that. They are more worried about establishing their characters and getting them progressed than actually finding and reporting issues. Without a server wipe, is this really a test, or merely allowing paying players to romp around before the game is finished? What, if anything, will VR be doing to ensure that the testers are actually testing?
For the record, I hope that the people who have chosen to pay for this pre-alpha access are committed to testing, and not just playing the game early.
Impressions are not facts. Research VR's position on early start for ROtF.
I would not be surprised if a large number of Pantheon testers are collecting / mining data for various 3rd party web sites. Those 'testers' are there for their own benefit, and the $1000 cost for this access is easily deductible as a business expense in those cases. So, pardon me for being cautious about the thoroughness of testing. MMORPGs don't have a particularly good record in that regard, based on the number of bugs released in the past 20 years.
As for VR's position, there is an awful lot of 'we want to' and 'we intend to', and almost no 'we did/ have done' -- words aren't actions. Impressions aren't facts, they are opinions, in this case, my opinions. If they follow through on the intentions, then and only then will the words expressing these intentions become factual statements. You are, of course, free to accept the developers words at face value. I'm a bit more skeptical about claims made about any unfinished project.
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
Brad McQuaid is not going to let someone have an advantage. Everything he says is they are building a community not a game. If people in the community have an unfair advantage it starts the community off on the wrong foot. Pre Alpha is simply a way to build hype. It lets people with deep pockets see the game early, nothing more. You can get into Alpha and beta for a low cost. Personally pre alpha wasn't worth $1000. $350 for Alpha/Beta is acceptable to me. So I don't mind waiting. I don't think the differences are that drastic between pre-alpha and alpha.
Just because I'm a gamer doesn't mean I drive a Honda.
$350 is acceptable for a decent size TV, ridiculous to beta test a game...I remember when we were doing them the favor to test their games for free, now they want to charge an arm and a leg for us to test bad games.
It's not puzzling at all. Gamers give passes to stuff they like and are unforgivingly critical of stuff they don't. Thing are filtered through these two different lenses.
People that take pot shots at this game and then in the next thread explain why it's okay in their game. Some of the people in this thread have and will do the same thing to another game in another thread.
I personally don't understand why people care what other people do with their money, as long as it doesn't negatively affect you. I can only imagine it's envy. Whales in a f2p game are a far cry from someone who willingly donates money to help something they want be created. In a f2p game it offers an unfair advantage. That is not the case here.
So the whales in this game are loved and described as something other than whales. Whales in other games are idiots who spend thousands of dollars propping up a game. You know if someone only read this post they probably wouldn't even know which game we're talking about because it's so prevalent.
Personally I think that it is ridiculous and a mistake, but it's not my project and I don't have any problem with people choosing to run it that way. Just like I love ESO but think the $125 house is idiotic like the $100 Rift horse, or locking content behind a sub or loot crate. We're still all riding that train full steam ahead and not even considering what all that means or that it might mean something.
Maybe I'm out of touch and completely wrong, but my spidey sense tingles a little at the ecosystem. It is not stable and it appears to moving in an unsustainable direction. Just a thought.
Ideally games will be made again that are popular enough on their own merit without needing shake down one's players or offer in game advantages. That is what I hope comes of this current batch of indie games. Otherwise, things will just continue to trend down. Even if the economy is picking up, nobody is going to throw money away cloning games that struggle on cash shop models.
No one is charging you any amount to test their game. They are giving access to their top tier backers. Let's explore possible scenarios that has upset people:
A) You are a top tier backer, and you are pissed off because not only you had to pay them money to make this game, but now you are forced to test as well.
You are a professional tester, and people paying to test games has rendered your job pointless.
C) You are worried that developers don't hire professional testers now that they got people to test their games so you'd end up buying an untested product. Well any developer could open the gates and have people to test their games for free. But any developer with a shred of intelligence understands the difference between a professional tester and a casual player. That's why they'd only do this to stress test their product. Whether and when they hire professionals is a matter of budget and schedule. Also there has been an endless amount of AAA products which had no sort of "early-access" whatsoever and ended up having more bugs than an ant colony upon release.
D) You think because you have been eating food all your life, new restaurants should send you free food in exchange for your insightful feedback.
Running out of imagination and crazy here, anyone else cares to pop-in?
Constantine, The Console Poster
"One of the most difficult tasks men can perform, however much others may despise it, is the invention of good games and it cannot be done by men out of touch with their instinctive selves." - Carl Jung
Not sure what people are upset about either. I get people being like 'that's crazy to pay that money just to test the game' argument. I don't get people caring if others do. It literally has zero impact on you. When the game launches it will either be awesome or it won't. You can decide for yourself. As for a trend in the gaming industry, this game is not a AAA big budget game. It's dependent on crowd forging. They have tiers on their site much like Kickstarter. If people choose to support the game at a certain level for the privilege of helping them make the game at an early stage, that's their decision.
And I would add that it looks like it's pretty successful for them based on the few posts I'm seeing in the forums over there. Looks like their CS team is overwhelmed (understaffed?) to handle all the late pledges.
The real question is what game didn't wipe during testing phase? No talking about early access, but I've never played a game where characters weren't wiped. Most recently, even archeage and bdo which had a early access of a few days, still wiped the characters from test.
I remember back in the old days, there never used to be a wipe. I tested EQ and was able to keep my character in retail.
Also for some reason it is tradition to not wipe a alpha/beta character over in Korea, and they seem fine with that.
I know it might sound preachy but i do not care about pre-alpha, it is just the prequel. I'll eat my pretzel while i make my preparations for post-launch of the premium prepaid pre-beta. I predict a preemptive riot
The real question is what game didn't wipe during testing phase? No talking about early access, but I've never played a game where characters weren't wiped. Most recently, even archeage and bdo which had a early access of a few days, still wiped the characters from test.
I remember back in the old days, there never used to be a wipe. I tested EQ and was able to keep my character in retail.
Also for some reason it is tradition to not wipe a alpha/beta character over in Korea, and they seem fine with that.
Funny thing, i remember back in the 'old days' when developers had to pay players to 'test' games that were even in alpha phase, the ridiculousness of someone buying into a game that is 'pre alpha' literally beggars belief.
This is one of the prices people have to pay for a crowdfunded project. Expecting anything less is pretty naive. That said, if they don't expand their testing pool in alpha and beta then it'll be an obvious issue if care is being tended to this game or just another cash grab like say Archeage. Only time will tell when it gets to those points. The game has potential but the market will be weak for this title especially with WoW Classic probably going to be around when this game gets serious. People can argue that the 2 titles address separate hardcore markets but most forget that mmorpgs are a really niche market compared to other gaming genres, so its already going to be stretching a market that is already thin. Of course I'll try this title and even Ashes, but the future will always be up in the air.
The real question is what game didn't wipe during testing phase? No talking about early access, but I've never played a game where characters weren't wiped. Most recently, even archeage and bdo which had a early access of a few days, still wiped the characters from test.
I remember back in the old days, there never used to be a wipe. I tested EQ and was able to keep my character in retail.
Also for some reason it is tradition to not wipe a alpha/beta character over in Korea, and they seem fine with that.
and they used to pay people to test their game. How stupid customers can be............
And then everyone wonders why these games suck when they release........
As if this is a proper alpha/beta test.
They are a indie studio, I would rather they spend money on making the game personally, than hiring some guys to help test what is still being made.
If someone paid $1000, I would imagine they are either well off to where it is no big deal, or they are really into this concept, and if so, they probably care more than some random guy.
Sure, it would be nice if they had more money to make the game, but it is what it is, and I want the money put into the game at this point. Maybe if they get enough interest in a beta phase (and they end up with extra money, either investor or people paying to get in), they could hire someone, but it doesn't make much sense to me in pre-alpha....maybe when most systems are in and things are being finalized. They are still building much of the game, at this point.
No such thing as a pre-alpha! So many of you are so gullible.
Well, they are doing it, and some people are testing it. I guess we are supposed to believe it is all lies?!
Some people don't know what they are talking about.
"A development status given to a program or application that is usually not feature complete, and is not usually released to the public. Developers are usually still deciding on what features the program should have at this status. This status comes before the alpha version, and is the first status given to a program."
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Yes because those dumb enough to hand over free money are the ones i want testing games. As to not existing,no problem here,you have NO idea what doesn't exist ,since it doesn't exist,so nobody is losing anything.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
No such thing as a pre-alpha! So many of you are so gullible.
Well, they are doing it, and some people are testing it. I guess we are supposed to believe it is all lies?!
Some people don't know what they are talking about.
"A development status given to a program or application that is usually not feature complete, and is not usually released to the public. Developers are usually still deciding on what features the program should have at this status. This status comes before the alpha version, and is the first status given to a program."
No such thing as a pre-alpha! So many of you are so gullible.
Well, they are doing it, and some people are testing it. I guess we are supposed to believe it is all lies?!
Some people don't know what they are talking about.
"A development status given to a program or application that is usually not feature complete, and is not usually released to the public. Developers are usually still deciding on what features the program should have at this status. This status comes before the alpha version, and is the first status given to a program."
Yeah and as soon as they start formal testing it's in alpha.
There is some pretty obvious ignorance going on regarding the software release life cycle.
First thing, that's Wikipedia, sorry, but it's not like that is official....But I decided I would play along, I typed in pre-alpha into a browser, the very first thing that popped up was:
****
Pre-Alpha is a standard term to denote a number of interim milestones between prototyping and alpha, each of which includes new functionality and/or game content. Pre-alphas often mandate incremented improvements on a number of parallel areas in a project, but rarely expect any one of those areas to be complete.
*****
That sounds exactly like where they said they were in the game. One guy said no such thing as pre-alpha, now pre-alpha has to mean what Wikipedia says, and if we don't agree, we are ignorant.... Find all the links you want, I can find a link to refute it, in the end, what does it matter what they are calling it? They can call it pre-marshmellow lucky charm days, they told people what state the game is in, a lot of content is not done or in. They have a limited budget, and they are not going to pay testers at this stage. They have a lot of people with experience in development, and they have some people that paid a good deal of money (which helps the game development). They never said they are relying on these people solely, and they still have alpha and beta. I don't think anyone is human resourcing testers anymore, for the most part. I would be surprised if they don't have a couple people on staff that they are trusting to help with this, and they would be paid testers, but for the majority of the testers, this isn't the case.
People are acting like Pantheon not paying testers made them lose their job. Would I like it more, if they could hire 100 people that are 'professionals' to test things and had 200 people to help fix what is found and add stuff...Sure, but that isn't going to happen. I am not a tester, I did donate to the original kickstarter (like $50-75, can't remember, and I had never done that before or since), but since it failed, I actually didn't.
I really like the concept of the game, sub only, no cash shop (I will settle for appearance only, and no drop, but no shop is great, if it sticks), large open world dungeons...etc.. I am tired of playing p2w or a mmo that feels like a lobby game. So I hope they pull it off. They didn't make anyone donate, and if some guy makes 6-7 figures and isn't going to overly miss $1k, thank you for donating and helping with the funds to hopefully make the game better. The game I play now, some people in it drop multiple hundreds to thousands a month to p2w, I prefer Pantheon's taking in money atm.
Comments
As for VR's position, there is an awful lot of 'we want to' and 'we intend to', and almost no 'we did/ have done' -- words aren't actions. Impressions aren't facts, they are opinions, in this case, my opinions. If they follow through on the intentions, then and only then will the words expressing these intentions become factual statements. You are, of course, free to accept the developers words at face value. I'm a bit more skeptical about claims made about any unfinished project.
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
Lets see your Battle Stations /r/battlestations
Battle Station
"classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
Love Minecraft. And check out my Youtube channel OhCanadaGamer
Try a MUD today at http://www.mudconnect.com/Ideally games will be made again that are popular enough on their own merit without needing shake down one's players or offer in game advantages. That is what I hope comes of this current batch of indie games. Otherwise, things will just continue to trend down. Even if the economy is picking up, nobody is going to throw money away cloning games that struggle on cash shop models.
No one is charging you any amount to test their game. They are giving access to their top tier backers. Let's explore possible scenarios that has upset people:
A) You are a top tier backer, and you are pissed off because not only you had to pay them money to make this game, but now you are forced to test as well.
C) You are worried that developers don't hire professional testers now that they got people to test their games so you'd end up buying an untested product. Well any developer could open the gates and have people to test their games for free. But any developer with a shred of intelligence understands the difference between a professional tester and a casual player. That's why they'd only do this to stress test their product. Whether and when they hire professionals is a matter of budget and schedule. Also there has been an endless amount of AAA products which had no sort of "early-access" whatsoever and ended up having more bugs than an ant colony upon release.
D) You think because you have been eating food all your life, new restaurants should send you free food in exchange for your insightful feedback.
Running out of imagination and crazy here, anyone else cares to pop-in?
And I would add that it looks like it's pretty successful for them based on the few posts I'm seeing in the forums over there. Looks like their CS team is overwhelmed (understaffed?) to handle all the late pledges.
Also for some reason it is tradition to not wipe a alpha/beta character over in Korea, and they seem fine with that.
As if this is a proper alpha/beta test.
Well, they are doing it, and some people are testing it. I guess we are supposed to believe it is all lies?!
They are a indie studio, I would rather they spend money on making the game personally, than hiring some guys to help test what is still being made.
If someone paid $1000, I would imagine they are either well off to where it is no big deal, or they are really into this concept, and if so, they probably care more than some random guy.
Sure, it would be nice if they had more money to make the game, but it is what it is, and I want the money put into the game at this point. Maybe if they get enough interest in a beta phase (and they end up with extra money, either investor or people paying to get in), they could hire someone, but it doesn't make much sense to me in pre-alpha....maybe when most systems are in and things are being finalized. They are still building much of the game, at this point.
"A development status given to a program or application that is usually not feature complete, and is not usually released to the public. Developers are usually still deciding on what features the program should have at this status. This status comes before the alpha version, and is the first status given to a program."
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
As to not existing,no problem here,you have NO idea what doesn't exist ,since it doesn't exist,so nobody is losing anything.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Yeah and as soon as they start formal testing it's in alpha.
There is some pretty obvious ignorance going on regarding the software release life cycle.
"classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
Love Minecraft. And check out my Youtube channel OhCanadaGamer
Try a MUD today at http://www.mudconnect.com/****
Pre-Alpha is a standard term to denote a number of interim milestones between prototyping and alpha, each of which includes new functionality and/or game content. Pre-alphas often mandate incremented improvements on a number of parallel areas in a project, but rarely expect any one of those areas to be complete.
*****
That sounds exactly like where they said they were in the game. One guy said no such thing as pre-alpha, now pre-alpha has to mean what Wikipedia says, and if we don't agree, we are ignorant.... Find all the links you want, I can find a link to refute it, in the end, what does it matter what they are calling it? They can call it pre-marshmellow lucky charm days, they told people what state the game is in, a lot of content is not done or in. They have a limited budget, and they are not going to pay testers at this stage. They have a lot of people with experience in development, and they have some people that paid a good deal of money (which helps the game development). They never said they are relying on these people solely, and they still have alpha and beta. I don't think anyone is human resourcing testers anymore, for the most part. I would be surprised if they don't have a couple people on staff that they are trusting to help with this, and they would be paid testers, but for the majority of the testers, this isn't the case.
People are acting like Pantheon not paying testers made them lose their job. Would I like it more, if they could hire 100 people that are 'professionals' to test things and had 200 people to help fix what is found and add stuff...Sure, but that isn't going to happen. I am not a tester, I did donate to the original kickstarter (like $50-75, can't remember, and I had never done that before or since), but since it failed, I actually didn't.
I really like the concept of the game, sub only, no cash shop (I will settle for appearance only, and no drop, but no shop is great, if it sticks), large open world dungeons...etc.. I am tired of playing p2w or a mmo that feels like a lobby game. So I hope they pull it off. They didn't make anyone donate, and if some guy makes 6-7 figures and isn't going to overly miss $1k, thank you for donating and helping with the funds to hopefully make the game better. The game I play now, some people in it drop multiple hundreds to thousands a month to p2w, I prefer Pantheon's taking in money atm.
Judge things on what you see instead of what people call it.