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Pantheon, what are you expecting ?

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  • XyireXyire Member UncommonPosts: 152
    Gdemami said:
    svann said:
    So in other words, you asked a question that by your world view would not be possible to answer
    Not at all. I did described how demand is measured - ratio of produced and sold products, and by that measure, there is no evidence of demand for game like Pantheon.
    Lol, sorry, but you're saying because they are not selling the game it therefore has no demand? Ignoring anything about pantheon, you really think there is no demand for any product that is not already produced and being sold?

    I doubt you think that.  
  • GdemamiGdemami Member EpicPosts: 11,818
    edited July 2016
    Xyire said:
    Lol, sorry, but you're saying because they are not selling the game it therefore has no demand? Ignoring anything about pantheon, you really think there is no demand for any product that is not already produced and being sold?

    I doubt you think that.  
    Um...I am not sure what about my reply isn't clear to you, can you be more specific?
  • XyireXyire Member UncommonPosts: 152
    Gdemami said:
    Xyire said:
    Lol, sorry, but you're saying because they are not selling the game it therefore has no demand? Ignoring anything about pantheon, you really think there is no demand for any product that is not already produced and being sold?

    I doubt you think that.  
    Um...I am not sure what about my reply isn't clear to you, can you be more specific?
    Alrighty: "demand is measured - ratio of produced and sold products" That means to have demand, there must be produced and sold products.  Is this what you meant? 
  • Raidan_EQRaidan_EQ Member UncommonPosts: 229
    Gdemami. doesn't understand supply/demand.  He believes products must currently exist in the market in order for there to be demand.  Under his belief system new items would never enter the market.

    He doesn't get the supply part.  Pantheon will attempt to meet the demand of the niche of challenging social MMO gameplay which currently in the MMO market has a supply (0).

    So in his convoluted view since there is no supply there can't be demand.

    Where people like me believe the demand is there, but can't be proven because the supply doesn't exist.  Whether I'm wrong or not we'll see - but we won't know till release.  

    You could make guesstimates based on factors like Facebook and say since they have 13000+ likes then it equates to at least 13000 subscriptions (yes I know likes can be manipulated).
  • GdemamiGdemami Member EpicPosts: 11,818
    edited July 2016
    Xyire said:
    Alrighty: "demand is measured - ratio of produced and sold products" That means to have demand, there must be produced and sold products.  Is this what you meant? 
    To measure a demand, there must be produced and sold products.

    Like 4th time people twisting what I am saying...
    (hey look! poster above does it again...)
  • HrimnirHrimnir Member RarePosts: 2,413
    No, there doesn't. Take a basic fucking economics class. 

    demand

    Definitions

    1.Commerce: A claim for a sum of money as due, necessary, or required.
    2.Economics: (1) Desire for certain good or service

    notice it says DESIRE

    here is another definition

    The amount of a particular economic good or service that a consumer or group of consumers will want to purchase at a given price.

    Notice, WILL WANT TO PURCHASE


    To measure SUPPLY there must be produced products, not sold, just produced.  Again, thats SUPPLY.  not DEMAND.  Demand is simply the desire for a product.  Whether that product has been produced or not is irrelevant.

    If there is, for example, a drought that kills off 99% of the world's corn plants.  The DEMAND for corn doesn't fucking dissapear, the SUPPLY does.

    "The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently."

    - Friedrich Nietzsche

  • Raidan_EQRaidan_EQ Member UncommonPosts: 229

    @Gedemami

    There is no twisting of words - you obviously have never been an entrepreneur.  If you think that those in business just blindly create new products without having a gauge of demand prior to creating the product, there's no use of explaining further.

  • svannsvann Member RarePosts: 2,202
    Gdemami said:
    svann said:
    So in other words, you asked a question that by your world view would not be possible to answer
    Not at all. I did described how demand is measured - ratio of produced and sold products, and by that measure, there is no evidence of demand for game like Pantheon.
    You asked for evidence of demand, and then when you got an answer you didnt like you re-defined demand in such a way that there could be no evidence of demand for a game not yet released.
  • GdemamiGdemami Member EpicPosts: 11,818
    edited July 2016
    svann said:
    You asked for evidence of demand, and then when you got an answer you didnt like you re-defined demand in such a way that there could be no evidence of demand for a game not yet released.
    Not really true.

    Like I said before, you can look at similar products, products with similar features and attributes.

    You can only measure what you have evidence of - how people spend their money on things that already exist.
    borghive49
  • NildenNilden Member EpicPosts: 2,913
    Gdemami said:
    svann said:
    You asked for evidence of demand, and then when you got an answer you didnt like you re-defined demand in such a way that there could be no evidence of demand for a game not yet released.
    Not really true.

    Like I said before, you can look at similar products, products with similar features and attributes.

    You can only measure what you have evidence of - how people spend their money on things that already exist.
    You are wrong.

    They could measure the interest in an idea and then produce a new product based on the interest in the idea.

    "You CAN'T buy ships for RL money." - MaxBacon

    "classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon

    Love Minecraft. And check out my Youtube channel OhCanadaGamer



  • VorthanionVorthanion Member RarePosts: 2,647
    Gdemami said:
    Raidan_EQ said:
    Is it impossible to imagine that players would want to experience a new game with gameplay similar to EQ with new lore/content etc.?
    It is not that it is impossible, just the number is too small.

    I guess we'll just have to wait and see who is better at foretelling.  I'm of the mind that the game will garner enough interest to be profitable if not a blockbuster.  That's good enough to keep the game running and me having fun playing it.  Neither the developer nor us fans have any delusions of grandeur, just a central belief there is a sizeable audience for a game like this and that is good enough for us.

    image
  • VorthanionVorthanion Member RarePosts: 2,647
    Gdemami said:
    drivendawn said:
    Hard to say when there isn't even a semi modern group oriented MMO like EQ or FFXI out there to see if there would be a good audience for it.
    It isn't hard to say at all, the answer is: No.

    That is why there are no "semi modern group oriented MMO like EQ or FFXI out there" in the first place.

    Where is the data to back up your claim?  Frankly, no one knows one way or the other if a group oriented game would make it in today's market since no one has tried in the last decade.  I'm glad Brad is willing to try.

    image
  • VorthanionVorthanion Member RarePosts: 2,647
    DKLond said:
    Dullahan said:
    DKLond said:
    Dullahan said:
    Lol @ 10-50k. Discussions of the desire for new EQ has been one of the mainstays and most reoccuring topics on this site since its inception.

    Another thread to add to my list of threads to bump post launch.
    Yes, and we all know how the vocal minority on MMORPG.com represents hundreds of thousands of players ;)

    You're setting yourself up for a big disappointment.

    That said, I'm looking forward to trying Pantheon out - and if it can really reach 50K players sustained, that should be enough for some modest upgrades.
    The 250,000 people that bought the last entry in this "very small" niche seem to disagree with you. To note, that was a quarter of a million people who bought a game that was known to be broken and unfinished prior to launch and released simultaneously with WoW's The Burning Crusade.

    Let this knowledge season you with rationality and intellectual honesty in your future posts on this topic.
    Are you kidding me?

    I'm "intellectually dishonest" because I'm pointing out that your fantasy isn't necessarily the fantasy of everyone else?

    1. That was 10 years ago. I don't know why you keep missing this, but things have happened in the MMO market segment in the past 10 years. Games have changed - and while you don't think that has affected the players - it has.

    2. There's a HUGE difference between buying a game and sticking with it. I just said it might reach those numbers at launch - even though I highly doubt it.

    We're talking about 50K players SUSTAINED - not copies sold.

    It's not rocket science.



    It's not science at all when there is no data or empirical evidence to prove your claim.  Short of doing an extensive survey of the MMORPG gaming population, we won't find out till someone tries.

    image
  • AmsaiAmsai Member UncommonPosts: 299
    Gdemami and DKLond

    Why do you care? You both obviously feel this game will fail and dot seem to care for it in general. Your arguments are nonsense at worst and ignorant if Im kind. But you know what I dont really care why you think the way you think. But what does bother me is why you care what I and others think. And even more so to such a high degree. How can you be this passionate about something you dont care about or think will fail. If it were me Id definitely find a better use of my time. I mean I get the whole internet is anonymous thing, but there are a lot of games I dislike but would never waste my time on it for pages??? 


  • TheocritusTheocritus Member EpicPosts: 7,099
    Im expecting something similar to Everquest and Vanguard but I have my doubts that kind of game can work in 2016-17
  • GaendricGaendric Member UncommonPosts: 618
    I am expecting a focussed niche product that serves one specific sub-segment.
    And I don't mean this as a negative thing. 

    Will be interesting to see how sustainable games targeting this segment will be, especially after all the banter around here regarding these types of games.
    Many people will have to eat their hats, no matter which way it pans out :)
    Will stock up on popcorn once the first wave of these games starts releasing.

    Personally I can enjoy both oldschool and newer games and wish every game luck. The more the merrier. 

  • HaplosHaplos Member UncommonPosts: 82
    I'm looking to be afraid .........U.O.  I used to zig out of town and hide in the woods to insure I wasn't being followed.  When I chopped wood, I would always be looking for bad guys.........EQ....the early EQ was dangerous and if you died it hurt.  I'm not saying make it so hard that you won't explore, but I want to do so carefully, knowing it will set me back if I die.   Make it too easy it's no longer fun...for me at least.   They left this even in later EQ because they were losing money to those that didn't want it hard I assume.  I understand that, but wish we could find one that will fit those of us that want to feel that apprehension when we delve into the unknown.  I hope this is the one
  • AdamantineAdamantine Member RarePosts: 4,324

    Im expecting something similar to Everquest and Vanguard but I have my doubts that kind of game can work in 2016-17
    I have no idea "if it can work" but

    1. I dont want to play anything else.

    2. Every time I hear people describing what MMO they want to play my answer is "thats Vanguard / Pantheon". Okay, except some people want good PvP too ...

    dcutbi001
    Please set a sig so I can read your posting even if somebody "agreed" etc with it. Thanks.
  • Kiori001Kiori001 Member UncommonPosts: 18
    edited December 2017
    baphamet said:
    Lol Dark & Light was a mess you must of had a super computer and you used the word " "arguably" and why I'm arguably saying it wasn't. 

    Again many played the game without the problems you had but don't get mad it's not going to be the same for everyone. 
    the game in question no longer exists, why is that? you are trying to pretend that vanguard was some great game but there is a reason it got shut down, there is a reason sigil games got sold to soe, there is a reason Microsoft pulled their funding......

    yet you say dark and light was a mess? LMAO! how much more biased can you be?
    Probably about as biased as I am.  For me Vanguard is the best MMO I have played.  I don't play any mmo currently as though they might be well made I find them boring.

    I Left Vanguard after a short while as I to was struggling to play due to the bugs.  But I went back a few months later as it was only the bugs that put me off,  the content was fantastic.

    I played for a long time then and only stopped when I had been struggling for a while to find groups. Being from New Zealand I was on at a time when most gamers were asleep,  Europe and USA.

    I went back a 3rd time when I managed to convince some friends to play and they all loved it,  unfortunately the game shut down a few months after this.

    So many awesome dungeons and places to explore.  Pantheon does not need to be exactly the same mechanically,  but needs to have the same challenges,  if not more. 
    Post edited by Kiori001 on
    SovrathsvannPottedPlant22dcutbi001borghive49
  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 27,478
    edited December 2017
    Im expecting something similar to Everquest and Vanguard but I have my doubts that kind of game can work in 2016-17
    It can work if the people who want that type of game play it. I know I am ready to stop playing Black Desert (and most likely Elder Scrolls Online though I only play that as single player) and just jump into this.

    I'm tired of "modern mmorpg's". I've gone back to some of the old games but Everquest seems clunky (I was not one of its earlier players) they changed Lineage 2 too much. Dark Age of Camelot seemed like a good fit but I found i was spamming skills and not really playing well. I wasn't clear at what my skills were actually doing.

    Starting off at the beginning as part of the community should be nice. I'm hoping the game is more like Vanguard in respect to the exploration as I loved that game.

    I actually downloaded the private server but had huge technical issues (mostly lag) when playing it so it was unplayable for me.

    This game seems to me to be a dream. It's not perfect but it fits the bill.


    Kiori001FangrimKylerandeniterborghive49



  • JustsomenoobJustsomenoob Member UncommonPosts: 877
    I want to play because of the progeny system, I love the remort feature in MUDs.
  • HaplosHaplos Member UncommonPosts: 82
    Everquest was great imo and Brad made it.  I'm going to play this one and hope it's good also.  For me that's enough, and I'm not really concerned as much with specifics and I am with the idea of returning to a play style that I enjoyed
  • svannsvann Member RarePosts: 2,202
    I hope this is a successor to eq1, but I think managing to release expansions in time may be a problem.  EQ took just 1 year to get their first expansion out.  This is important.  When people finish content and have nothing new to strive for to they leave.
  • DMKanoDMKano Member LegendaryPosts: 21,683
    svann said:
    I hope this is a successor to eq1, but I think managing to release expansions in time may be a problem.  EQ took just 1 year to get their first expansion out.  This is important.  When people finish content and have nothing new to strive for to they leave.

    Average players leave way before exhausting content.

    Today an average gamer lasts about 2-6 weeks before moving on.

    Players leave when theh feel "bored" and players today get bored a hell of a lot faster than back in 1998-2003

    This is one of the major factors of why industry switched to "zero cost of entry" as players can come and go as they please without having to pay first to play.

    This is going to be tough for Pantheon as they are going for a subscription route - this will limit many potential players from ever playing but will have a loyal following of P2P purists

    MendelKyleran
  • MendelMendel Member EpicPosts: 3,429
    DMKano said:
    svann said:
    I hope this is a successor to eq1, but I think managing to release expansions in time may be a problem.  EQ took just 1 year to get their first expansion out.  This is important.  When people finish content and have nothing new to strive for to they leave.

    Average players leave way before exhausting content.

    Today an average gamer lasts about 2-6 weeks before moving on.

    Players leave when theh feel "bored" and players today get bored a hell of a lot faster than back in 1998-2003

    This is one of the major factors of why industry switched to "zero cost of entry" as players can come and go as they please without having to pay first to play.

    This is going to be tough for Pantheon as they are going for a subscription route - this will limit many potential players from ever playing but will have a loyal following of P2P purists

    Assuming that they're not already paying to get "bored".

    Has anyone else noticed quite a number of Pantheon supporters aren't posting nearly as regularly since the Pantheon pre-(with possibly a couple more 'pre-'s in there)-Alpha started?  That they paid to be there is questionable in my mind, but let's hope the early birds are dedicated enough testers that don't get bored with testing and go flying off looking for that next worm.

    Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.

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