If world size was most important, Vanguard would have been a huge success. Alas, it's the content that fills the world and how it plays that's more important.
EQ only had 1 pure melee character, so their wasn't classes, every other melee was a hybrid that had spells (EQ was balanced around grouping, so warrior almost had to be bland the way they did it, but yes trying to solo level a warrior was like hitting your head against a wall.).
As for graphics, they are fine, I would rather have content. They need to work on animations and such, but it isn't even in pre-alpha (they seem to think it is close to going into that phase), and from watching other games, animations/character touches are one of the last things they work on polishing, so it is barely worth nit picking at this point. They will need to get the animations to be smooth though, a lot of people seem to be sticklers (make or break) for this. It doesn't bother me that much.
I agree graphics are fine, I don't even care about the animations.
I'm worried about coding..... I don't see how people can't understand the difference.
You aren't being specific enough. What "coding" are you worried about, as graphics are coded you know.
Lets go back to the original post on page one, it's all explained their. From, I'm not a programmer to technical problems in the latest video.
I'm looking beyond "eye candy" !
Watch the latest podcast on the updated graphics again. - When the team is on the tower, if you watch a player simply disappears. - When the player is looking off the tower and zooms out you see clipping of the entire page. Maybe this is reloading the page ? - When the Tank goes down, he seems to melt in the ground. - When the fighter is in the cave looking below the bridge, his hands and sward are completely clipped from his body.
Note: This is just a fraction of discrepancies, as I just fast watched the video again.
If you think about early development of mmos, problems such as these plagued Sony Online games the most (EQ1,EQ2,Vanguard). Other early mmos were not as bad for "coding".
So you listed sub problems..... Take your pick..... Your the programmer, I'm not !
Here watch the video again, and PLEASE look beyond the "eye candy"
Apologies, just started my "development" career in June, I'v been a program/project manager most of my career, and my app doesn't have "graphics"
Sounds like clipping and connecting the avatar to the world are your greatest concerns (not sure what the technical terms are for that), but I understand your point, and I would agree that's very important to resolve.
I'll take your word on them btw, rare is the day I'll watch a video, especially about gameplay, just not what I normally do. (Especially on phones, way too small)
I feel EXACTLY the same way about watching videos on video games...
No, I don't have any relevant point to add. Just wanted to say that. Carry on.
No it wasn't. AC1 was easily superior. It was ahead of its time in many more ways.
This is purely a matter of personal opinion.
no it's a fact... it had the largest land mass / world of any mmorpg at the time.. and it was seamless / zoneless..
EQ had neither
Mechanically, EQ was superior. Gameplay is king in MMORPGs. No one really cared much about EQ's zones. If anything, it helped the game have superior performance compared to its competitors.
The fact that it had the largest land mass didn't matter at all, since these games were based on Levels and players restricted the land mass they inhabited based on the level of their characters. There was no reason to go to Greater Faydark on a level 20+ character in EQ, for example, unless you were going to Kelethin or the High Elf City.
We see how this plays out everytime a MMORPG releases an expansion and/or raises the level cap. Old content pretty much dies out immediately. It doesn't matter that WoW has 5+ continents and dozens of zones. Almost no one really utilizes the old content outside of Achievement Farming or Leveling New characters (if they don't boost). It's effectively non-factor.
Most of the early MMORPGs were like that, since there was no level scaling (like in GW2).
The land mass argument is worthless.
The Zoneless/Seamless argument is worthless.
The only thing that mattered, was the Lore, Mechanics, and Gameplay... and EQ was superior on all of those fronts.
This is why EQ survived, and its competitors from those days largely died out (or simply hung around "cause why not," while being effectively dead games).
I think the inevitable dead content "problem" is the strongest argument for getting rid of levels in MMORPGs (and is why newer games are implementing level scaling).
I played AC1 for 2 years before finally trying EQ.. The first impression I had of EQ when I first logged in was that the graphics were shit... the game moved slow as hell.. and the zoning sucked...
In AC1 your character ran like a jack rabbit on speed when you put tons of points into running skill.. everything felt quicker and more fluid.. EQ1 just felt like a retirement home in comparison..
I played AC1 for 2 years before finally trying EQ.. The first impression I had of EQ when I first logged in was that the graphics were shit... the game moved slow as hell.. and the zoning sucked...
In AC1 your character ran like a jack rabbit on speed when you put tons of points into running skill.. everything felt quicker and more fluid.. EQ1 just felt like a retirement home in comparison..
I played AC1 for 2 years before finally trying EQ.. The first impression I had of EQ when I first logged in was that the graphics were shit... the game moved slow as hell.. and the zoning sucked...
In AC1 your character ran like a jack rabbit on speed when you put tons of points into running skill.. everything felt quicker and more fluid.. EQ1 just felt like a retirement home in comparison..
Thats probably because you went from a fully developed character with "tons" of point in running to a character that is just starting out, has no runspeed yet, and doesnt know how to get anywhere.
I just looked at videos of Pantheon, the graphics do not impress me, and the animations look uninspiring. My problem with the MMO genre is not going to be fixed by a game like this that likely has limited innovation. It's probably why I'm playing a survival game now because it is new and innovative to me at least.
Oh well. I will likely not play this game unless they do something truly innovative.
Cryomatrix
Catch me streaming at twitch.tv/cryomatrix You can see my sci-fi/WW2 book recommendations.
I just looked at videos of Pantheon, the graphics do not impress me, and the animations look uninspiring. My problem with the MMO genre is not going to be fixed by a game like this that likely has limited innovation. It's probably why I'm playing a survival game now because it is new and innovative to me at least.
Oh well. I will likely not play this game unless they do something truly innovative.
Cryomatrix
They have plenty of fresh stuff going into the game, but at this point just having a survival style mmorpg again (where healing takes time and resources and death has impact) will make for an experience that feels new to most people. You should probably look into what the game is going to offer before making a decision. Would also be recommended that you don't judge the pre-alpha state of graphics and animations as a finished product. The game has come a long way.
@Kyleran, I wouldn't call Visionary Realms Inc an indie game developer. I reserve that for those who have never worked on a commercial released game. /snip
Indie = Independent, as in not associated with a major publisher/distributor, responsible for securing their own funding for their own development, you know, independently.
Being an independent developer has absolutely nothing to do with work history or experience. It's really more about structure and finance.
This is what Pantheon looked liked before Joppa arrived...lol
Needless to say, it has come a long ways, and it will get better.
A few things I would like to say about this "early stage" clip:
- As opposed to other "early stage" developer graphics, it has the makings of Everquest 2 and Vanguard coding. Fading in and out landscape, players and environment floating, washed out graphics from a medium distance.
Now I don't care what it looks like. BUT it looks like the same bad coding.
I just hope Joppa isn't just making the bad coding LOOK NICE like more recent clips !!!
- Asian graphic developers can make cartoon graphics look great, FF14, BDO - Western graphic developers can make cartoon graphics look great, WoW, GW2 - Darkfall Unholy Wars by Aventurine was the only truly well coded realistic mmo, with Elder Scrolls Online being a close runner up in my opinion.
I played AC1 for 2 years before finally trying EQ.. The first impression I had of EQ when I first logged in was that the graphics were shit... the game moved slow as hell.. and the zoning sucked...
In AC1 your character ran like a jack rabbit on speed when you put tons of points into running skill.. everything felt quicker and more fluid.. EQ1 just felt like a retirement home in comparison..
In my observation and it's only my opinion, the game looks exactly like Vanguard but 10% better. But I don't care about better or even looking like Vanguard at all. I don't care about graphics...... I care about coding, programming, hardware and software compatibles and smooth gameplay.
Eye candy is no good without game play although I'd say Pantheon is more than 10% ahead in the graphical department than Vanguard, and it's still early doors. Yes VR are focusing more on game play but their certainly not neglecting the games visuals.
@scooby1971 ; You could have picked a better comparison model for Pantheon, because the Vanguard one looks better in your examples.
In my view when I say 10% better, that's not a dig, Both look nice and so far Pantheon really does look better.
EVERYONE has different perspectives. All my years on this site graphics quality has been an argument. Theirs been times where posters stick up for the ugliest looking video games and many will agree. It's an imposable equation.... Visuals are not something that could be punched into a computer and see what comes out.
What I worry about is similarities in coding from an outsiders perspective !! Doing the same thing over, expecting different results !!
Someone posted a write up from Brad saying he never had the time to fix Vanguard before it was released. It would be a relief to know that's the case and Pantheon will be better. However SOE stated they couldn't fix it. Maybe they didn't understand or didn't want too, I don't know I'm not a programmer.
Comments
No, I don't have any relevant point to add. Just wanted to say that. Carry on.
Mechanically, EQ was superior. Gameplay is king in MMORPGs. No one really cared much about EQ's zones. If anything, it helped the game have superior performance compared to its competitors.
The fact that it had the largest land mass didn't matter at all, since these games were based on Levels and players restricted the land mass they inhabited based on the level of their characters. There was no reason to go to Greater Faydark on a level 20+ character in EQ, for example, unless you were going to Kelethin or the High Elf City.
We see how this plays out everytime a MMORPG releases an expansion and/or raises the level cap. Old content pretty much dies out immediately. It doesn't matter that WoW has 5+ continents and dozens of zones. Almost no one really utilizes the old content outside of Achievement Farming or Leveling New characters (if they don't boost). It's effectively non-factor.
Most of the early MMORPGs were like that, since there was no level scaling (like in GW2).
The land mass argument is worthless.
The Zoneless/Seamless argument is worthless.
The only thing that mattered, was the Lore, Mechanics, and Gameplay... and EQ was superior on all of those fronts.
This is why EQ survived, and its competitors from those days largely died out (or simply hung around "cause why not," while being effectively dead games).
I think the inevitable dead content "problem" is the strongest argument for getting rid of levels in MMORPGs (and is why newer games are implementing level scaling).
In AC1 your character ran like a jack rabbit on speed when you put tons of points into running skill.. everything felt quicker and more fluid.. EQ1 just felt like a retirement home in comparison..
Oh well. I will likely not play this game unless they do something truly innovative.
Cryomatrix
You can see my sci-fi/WW2 book recommendations.
From
to
to
It's a work in progress.
Needless to say, it has come a long ways, and it will get better.
Being an independent developer has absolutely nothing to do with work history or experience. It's really more about structure and finance.
A few things I would like to say about this "early stage" clip:
- As opposed to other "early stage" developer graphics, it has the makings of Everquest 2 and Vanguard coding. Fading in and out landscape, players and environment floating, washed out graphics from a medium distance.
Now I don't care what it looks like. BUT it looks like the same bad coding.
I just hope Joppa isn't just making the bad coding LOOK NICE like more recent clips !!!
- Asian graphic developers can make cartoon graphics look great, FF14, BDO
- Western graphic developers can make cartoon graphics look great, WoW, GW2
- Darkfall Unholy Wars by Aventurine was the only truly well coded realistic mmo, with Elder Scrolls Online being a close runner up in my opinion.
- Graphics are all opinions, coding is not !
Lol. Preach!
You could have picked a better comparison model for Pantheon, because the Vanguard one looks better in your examples.
In my view when I say 10% better, that's not a dig, Both look nice and so far Pantheon really does look better.
EVERYONE has different perspectives. All my years on this site graphics quality has been an argument. Theirs been times where posters stick up for the ugliest looking video games and many will agree. It's an imposable equation.... Visuals are not something that could be punched into a computer and see what comes out.
What I worry about is similarities in coding from an outsiders perspective !!
Doing the same thing over, expecting different results !!
Someone posted a write up from Brad saying he never had the time to fix Vanguard before it was released. It would be a relief to know that's the case and Pantheon will be better. However SOE stated they couldn't fix it. Maybe they didn't understand or didn't want too, I don't know I'm not a programmer.