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Why would you want loot boxes in your games?

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  • SEANMCADSEANMCAD Member EpicPosts: 16,775
    Flyte27 said:
    SEANMCAD said:
    Flyte27 said:

    sorry but I have a problem with a authoritarian moral authority curating my game content appointed by a group of people who thinks violence is not morally questionable but gambling is.
    I can't really disagree with that.  I'm only pointing out that none of it really matters in the end.  It is just one large group pushing their ideas on others.  I'd probably not like adventure games, movies, and sexual content so much if I hadn't seen it as a child.  I probably wouldn't have been so aggressive and had the ideas I did either.  I think violence is overlooked because it's something addictive and harmful but fulfills some kind of base desire our bodies developed during evolution.  The problem is we don't really need it anymore in most cases and violent stimulation can be unhealthy in large quantities like with anything.  In the end, as I pointed out, it doesn't really matter though.  Humans are overly successful regardless of what bad things some people may do.
    when it comes to the question of lootboxes I think:
    1. consumers need to take personal responsibility
    2. consumers need to be open minded to options outside of a small number of developers they have been sold to as being the holy grail of developers.
    3. advertising that causes the mindset of item 2 is what needs to be looked at more so then lootboxes themselves 


    I mean seriously folks, Battlefront is nearly EXACTLY BF1942 with different skins. How people fall for that shit regardless of lootboxes always amazes me
    If history shows anything it's that over the course of a few generations most people learn to protect their children from certain things through passing on of knowledge.  My only point is this is not needed.  Humans will be successful regardless of doing these types of things.  Perfection in terms of weeding out all harmful elements may, in fact, cause its own source of issues in the future.  In terms of violence and gambling, these types of things can cause a decrease in population and shortening of life that may be overall good for the human race as less food and jobs are needed for everyone that is alive.  You are welcome to your opinion that both things are unhealthy for people as I believe you are correct.
    I see.

    I think its more true then not but on that note I think its a combination of deliberate actions and passive results over time like your suggesting.

    That said, i think when it comes to lootboxes specfically I think its something the free markets should work out itself. Now when it comes to ADVERTISING lootboxes that I am more open to conversation around legistation.

    Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.

    Please do not respond to me

  • laseritlaserit Member LegendaryPosts: 7,591
    SEANMCAD said:
    laserit said:
    SEANMCAD said:
    laserit said:
    SEANMCAD said:
    AAAMEOW said:
    DMKano said:
    Tiamat64 said:
    DMKano said:

    Well you are correct when it comes to paid lootboxes, a spending minority is funding the games.

    But I am talking about removing RNG from the game not just paid lootboxes. 

    People say they hate RNG in games, but its the mechanic that keeps it interesting for the masses
    The topic creator clarified that this topic is in regard to paid purchased loot boxes.  So earning RNG in-game, be it earned loot boxes or earned loot (which in the end, while also random, is a completely different can of worms from cash shop loot boxes as a business practice) is meant to be (and should be!) a separate matter from just tossing money at the screen for RNG.


    But its the same damn thing - its RNG as a core mechanic.

    The only difference is spending time in game to get RNG

    or

    spending money to get RNG


    so this is a time vs money discussion at core no?

    I like to be given a choice of both.
    I think the real moral problem is how expensive loot box is.

    Imagine you are playing Wow and there is this rare flying mount with 0.0001% drop rate.  People may try to get it but since it is so hard to get people just give up.

    Now imagine this flying mount is put in a loot box with 1% drop rate and selling for 10$.  Essentially it means they are trying to sell the mount for 1000$ on avg.

    Even worse imagine games trying to sell powerful sword in loot box with 1% drop rate and 10$ each.
    I dont think its a 'moral problem' but maybe it is. I mean a 'moral problem' would be more like charging super high prices for basic food items, or housing, or medical care...but a video game perk?
    It's only a moral problem if it's something you need?

    You only need rice and water to survive, everything else is a luxury.

    Why should the entertainment industry get a free pass for business practices that would not be tolerated for a second in other industries.
    why? because we do not live in a Authoritarian state....yet.
    The absolute hardline fierce campaign by many of you to be strictly opposed to anything that remotely resembles Free Market principles is astounding.

    We cant go around having every single solitary aspect of a game reviewed for some subjective moral imperative just so that we do not offend some special snowflake.

    If we do the first thing on the chopping block is going to be violence when it comes to your question of 'morality'
     
    Lol

    You think you live in a free market? Duties and tariffs among many other things, say that you don't.
    we do not live in a free market but parts of it resemble free market principles which is what I was saying.

    Why are you do against anything remotely RESEMBLING free market principles?

    if we are going to start applying morality to every single solitary game mechanic then literally everything sold without any exception would have to be fully reviewed and accepted by a central authority and the first thing likely to go would be sex and violence.

    is that what you want?
    There is a big difference between predatory business practices and censorship.

    I'm not interested in censorship. I am interested in placing limits on predatory business practices.
    YashaX

    "Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee

  • TarbloodTarblood Member UncommonPosts: 98
    As a business I would want loot boxes in my game because people buy them. A lot of them. The research backs the need for them in addictions. Look at EA's profits since loot boxes were put in FIFA. It has SKYROCKETED. Their stocks increased a ludicrous amount over the past few years. All because Loot Boxes.

    That's why they do it. Money. Plain. Pure. Simple.

    RAWR

  • SEANMCADSEANMCAD Member EpicPosts: 16,775
    edited December 2017
    laserit said:

    There is a big difference between predatory business practices and censorship.

    I'm not interested in censorship. I am interested in placing limits on predatory business practices.
    predatory business practices = ADVERTISING
    predatory business practices <> GAMBLING

    I am all for taking a close regulatory look at predatory business practices around the advertising of gambling. but be vary wary of the use of 'moral' when talking about regulation.

    Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.

    Please do not respond to me

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon Member EpicPosts: 27,775
    SEANMCAD said:


    I mean seriously folks, Battlefront is nearly EXACTLY BF1942 with different skins. How people fall for that shit regardless of lootboxes always amazes me

    Why? Games are about illusion anyway. So skins are important. In fact, people would pay money to buy virtual skin, you know that.


  • ChildoftheShadowsChildoftheShadows Member EpicPosts: 2,193
    I "like" them because some people buy them and it allows me to play the game for free.
  • YashaXYashaX Member EpicPosts: 3,098
    edited December 2017
    SEANMCAD said:
    YashaX said:
    SEANMCAD said:
    YashaX said:

     
    Quite a leap from putting some age restrictions/warnings on games that are gambling driven like BF2, to an absolutely "hardline fierce campaign ... to be strictly opposed to anything that remotely resembles Free Market principles" and "a Authoritarian state". 

    We already have age restrictions and warnings on games with excessive violence/adult themes so its nothing new. 
    I dont think so.

    Yes...age comes into to play...but goddamnit lets be honest, nobody here is really intrested in ending lootboxes 'because of the children', give that grade A bullshit a fucking rest its older than dog shit because everyone knows the people here want lootboxes gone from THEIR game...they are not childern

    Couldn't be that some people also have children, or just care about social issues?
    it 'could' to use your word exactly but its not in this forum You seriously think this outrage is all about PEGI version for gambling. yeah because PEGI has reduced violence in your video game experience hasnt? dont bullshit me please
    Pretty sure a lot of people around here are parents or grandparents. All I want in relation to this is for an 18-plus rating and warning on the boxes, the important thing is that people are made aware of the issue.

    So did you every tell us why you want loot boxes in your games (the topic of this thread)?  
    ....
  • SEANMCADSEANMCAD Member EpicPosts: 16,775
    edited December 2017
    YashaX said:
    SEANMCAD said:
    YashaX said:
    SEANMCAD said:
    YashaX said:

     
    Quite a leap from putting some age restrictions/warnings on games that are gambling driven like BF2, to an absolutely "hardline fierce campaign ... to be strictly opposed to anything that remotely resembles Free Market principles" and "a Authoritarian state". 

    We already have age restrictions and warnings on games with excessive violence/adult themes so its nothing new. 
    I dont think so.

    Yes...age comes into to play...but goddamnit lets be honest, nobody here is really intrested in ending lootboxes 'because of the children', give that grade A bullshit a fucking rest its older than dog shit because everyone knows the people here want lootboxes gone from THEIR game...they are not childern

    Couldn't be that some people also have children, or just care about social issues?
    it 'could' to use your word exactly but its not in this forum You seriously think this outrage is all about PEGI version for gambling. yeah because PEGI has reduced violence in your video game experience hasnt? dont bullshit me please
    Pretty sure a lot of people around here are parents or grandparents. All I want in relation to this is for an 18-plus rating and warning on the boxes, the important thing is that people are made aware of the issue.

    So did you every tell us why you want loot boxes in your games (the topic of this thread)?  
    I dont care if people here are parents or 'could' care
    all those things are is a qualifier that they MIGHT care.
    I am saying I know better, I know they dont.

    TOPIC OF THE THREAD:
    You: 'So did you every tell us why you want loot boxes in your games (the topic of this thread)?  '


    lol,........hysterical!

    My point EXACTLY@!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    its not about the kids...its about YOU. making gambling going away for the kids is not going to change YOUR in game experience.

    now as far as my gaming experience goes here is how many times in my 37 years of gaming I have seen a lootbox in my game......ready....ZERO....never...37 years of gaming not even trying to avoid lootboxes and I have never seen one. why? because the games I play are not bullshit.

    Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.

    Please do not respond to me

  • AAAMEOWAAAMEOW Member RarePosts: 1,600
    SEANMCAD said:

    its not about the kids...its about YOU. making gambling going away for the kids is not going to change YOUR in game experience.

    now as far as my gaming experience goes here is how many times in my 37 years of gaming I have seen a lootbox in my game......ready....ZERO....never...37 years of gaming not even trying to avoid lootboxes and I have never seen one. why? because the games I play are not bullshit.
    It is like me asking you what mmorpg you played during the last 20 years.  I presume not many since almost all the games are F2P(and you say you don't play f2p games).  There are obviously premium f2p games which are less invasive. 

    Loot box pretty much only start to become popular in the last few years.  I think some are only cosmetic so it don't bother people much.  EA pretty much goes into the p2w route.


  • SEANMCADSEANMCAD Member EpicPosts: 16,775
    edited December 2017
    AAAMEOW said:
    SEANMCAD said:

    its not about the kids...its about YOU. making gambling going away for the kids is not going to change YOUR in game experience.

    now as far as my gaming experience goes here is how many times in my 37 years of gaming I have seen a lootbox in my game......ready....ZERO....never...37 years of gaming not even trying to avoid lootboxes and I have never seen one. why? because the games I play are not bullshit.
    It is like me asking you what mmorpg you played during the last 20 years.  I presume not many since almost all the games are F2P(and you say you don't play f2p games).  There are obviously premium f2p games which are less invasive. 

    Loot box pretty much only start to become popular in the last few years.  I think some are only cosmetic so it don't bother people much.  EA pretty much goes into the p2w route.


    because I dont play games that are bullshit (in my opinion).

    I stopped playing EQ2 in 2008, switched to Darkfall, then Wurm Online, the got on the indie single player/private server band wagon.

    Never seen a paid for loot box. I played one F2P title but (fallen earth) but never even saw a lootbox

    EA games in my opinion are horrible scams, I am not remotely surprised

    Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.

    Please do not respond to me

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon Member EpicPosts: 27,775
    I "like" them because some people buy them and it allows me to play the game for free.

    wow .. where did you come from? That sounds like something I would have said if you just replace the phrase "some people" with "whales". 
  • YashaXYashaX Member EpicPosts: 3,098
    SEANMCAD said:
    YashaX said:
    SEANMCAD said:
    YashaX said:
    SEANMCAD said:
    YashaX said:

     
    Quite a leap from putting some age restrictions/warnings on games that are gambling driven like BF2, to an absolutely "hardline fierce campaign ... to be strictly opposed to anything that remotely resembles Free Market principles" and "a Authoritarian state". 

    We already have age restrictions and warnings on games with excessive violence/adult themes so its nothing new. 
    I dont think so.

    Yes...age comes into to play...but goddamnit lets be honest, nobody here is really intrested in ending lootboxes 'because of the children', give that grade A bullshit a fucking rest its older than dog shit because everyone knows the people here want lootboxes gone from THEIR game...they are not childern

    Couldn't be that some people also have children, or just care about social issues?
    it 'could' to use your word exactly but its not in this forum You seriously think this outrage is all about PEGI version for gambling. yeah because PEGI has reduced violence in your video game experience hasnt? dont bullshit me please
    Pretty sure a lot of people around here are parents or grandparents. All I want in relation to this is for an 18-plus rating and warning on the boxes, the important thing is that people are made aware of the issue.

    So did you every tell us why you want loot boxes in your games (the topic of this thread)?  


    TOPIC OF THE THREAD:
    You: 'So did you every tell us why you want loot boxes in your games (the topic of this thread)?  '


    lol,........hysterical!

    My point EXACTLY@!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    its not about the kids...its about YOU. making gambling going away for the kids is not going to change YOUR in game experience.

    now as far as my gaming experience goes here is how many times in my 37 years of gaming I have seen a lootbox in my game......ready....ZERO....never...37 years of gaming not even trying to avoid lootboxes and I have never seen one. why? because the games I play are not bullshit.
    Cool, so why you want loot boxes in your games?
    ....
  • SEANMCADSEANMCAD Member EpicPosts: 16,775
    edited December 2017
    YashaX said:
    SEANMCAD said:
    YashaX said:
    SEANMCAD said:
    YashaX said:
    SEANMCAD said:
    YashaX said:

     
    Quite a leap from putting some age restrictions/warnings on games that are gambling driven like BF2, to an absolutely "hardline fierce campaign ... to be strictly opposed to anything that remotely resembles Free Market principles" and "a Authoritarian state". 

    We already have age restrictions and warnings on games with excessive violence/adult themes so its nothing new. 
    I dont think so.

    Yes...age comes into to play...but goddamnit lets be honest, nobody here is really intrested in ending lootboxes 'because of the children', give that grade A bullshit a fucking rest its older than dog shit because everyone knows the people here want lootboxes gone from THEIR game...they are not childern

    Couldn't be that some people also have children, or just care about social issues?
    it 'could' to use your word exactly but its not in this forum You seriously think this outrage is all about PEGI version for gambling. yeah because PEGI has reduced violence in your video game experience hasnt? dont bullshit me please
    Pretty sure a lot of people around here are parents or grandparents. All I want in relation to this is for an 18-plus rating and warning on the boxes, the important thing is that people are made aware of the issue.

    So did you every tell us why you want loot boxes in your games (the topic of this thread)?  


    TOPIC OF THE THREAD:
    You: 'So did you every tell us why you want loot boxes in your games (the topic of this thread)?  '


    lol,........hysterical!

    My point EXACTLY@!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    its not about the kids...its about YOU. making gambling going away for the kids is not going to change YOUR in game experience.

    now as far as my gaming experience goes here is how many times in my 37 years of gaming I have seen a lootbox in my game......ready....ZERO....never...37 years of gaming not even trying to avoid lootboxes and I have never seen one. why? because the games I play are not bullshit.
    Cool, so why you want loot boxes in your games?
    I dont...sorry I thought I had said that in my reply but I see I must have accidentally taken it out. Even though it should have been infered

    why do you think I do?

    Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.

    Please do not respond to me

  • TheocritusTheocritus Member LegendaryPosts: 9,739
    Loot boxes don't bother me because they are no temptation for me.
    Eldurian
  • EldurianEldurian Member EpicPosts: 2,736
    @YashaX

    For me I neither want them in my game nor do I not want them in my game so long as I have the option of getting the things contained in them in other ways, or the things contained in them are completely unimportant fluff.

    A fool and his money are soon parted. People can go on about "predatory" marketing schemes all they want but it's like cigarettes at this point. Knowing everything we know about smoking if someone in my generation still chooses to start using them I don't even feel sorry for them. If someone chooses to blow all their IRL money on RNG in a video game I don't even feel sorry for them.

    It's not like "Wow this person had such a bright future ahead of them and then they wasted it all on lootboxes in a video game." "Omg they would have become so much if they hadn't thrown their life away with cigarettes."

    No they would have blown all their money on lottery tickets. They would have drank themselves to death instead. The root of the problem is these people just aren't good decision makers, and it's going to take them out one way or another.
  • nariusseldonnariusseldon Member EpicPosts: 27,775
    Eldurian said:
    @YashaX

    For me I neither want them in my game nor do I not want them in my game so long as I have the option of getting the things contained in them in other ways, or the things contained in them are completely unimportant fluff.

    A fool and his money are soon parted. People can go on about "predatory" marketing schemes all they want but it's like cigarettes at this point. Knowing everything we know about smoking if someone in my generation still chooses to start using them I don't even feel sorry for them. If someone chooses to blow all their IRL money on RNG in a video game I don't even feel sorry for them.


    well said. In fact, i don't even need the stuff in the looboxes to be obtainable. As long as the game is fun without them .. i am fine.

    In fact, most f2p games are fun for at least 15-20 min (until the grind set it, or you exhaust all the new and shiny skills) ... so that is 15-20 min of free fun funded by loot boxes. Sounds great to me.
  • ScorchienScorchien Member LegendaryPosts: 8,914
      Great new game coming out for those that love Loot Boxes ...

    http://store.steampowered.com/app/733990/I_Cant_Believe_Its_Not_Gambling/

  • ScorchienScorchien Member LegendaryPosts: 8,914
    ohh my look at that ....  go figure
    Related image
     

    YashaXcameltosis
  • laxielaxie Member RarePosts: 1,118
    edited December 2017
    .
  • YashaXYashaX Member EpicPosts: 3,098
    Eldurian said:
    @YashaX

    For me I neither want them in my game nor do I not want them in my game so long as I have the option of getting the things contained in them in other ways, or the things contained in them are completely unimportant fluff.

    That is the only part of your post that is relevant to this thread (if you read the OP), and I basically feel the same way.


    ....
  • bcbullybcbully Member EpicPosts: 11,838
    waynejr2 said:
    Did Frodo have loot boxes?   How about Conan?  Does anyone remember the time the Elric and Moonglum changed directions and went to Tanelorn just to dump their extra cash on Loot Boxes?
    Related image
    "We see fundamentals and we ape in"
  • nariusseldonnariusseldon Member EpicPosts: 27,775
    Scorchien said:
      Great new game coming out for those that love Loot Boxes ...

    http://store.steampowered.com/app/733990/I_Cant_Believe_Its_Not_Gambling/

    nah .. they are not designing it right .. there is nothing to get the whales to spend $$$. 
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