What modern features would you like/accept in Pantheon?

Nightbringe1 · November 2017

The old features we want to have brought back from the days of EQ get a lot of discussion time here. My question is, what new and improved features would people enjoy.

This does not have to mean features included at launch, but also features added over time as the game grows.

I would enjoy:

Appearance gear: I really enjoy the appearance gear system in Rifts. It has no impact on combat while adding considerably to horizontal gameplay. I can spend hours setting a character's appearance to be just right and, for my teen daughter, it is almost half of her gameplay.
Housing: EQ2 did this right. It adds another horizontal aspect to gameplay while having no effect on combat or travel. There are people, my wife included, that spend more time decorating houses than fighting. I personally maintain a max-level carpenter just for building furniture.
Pet gear: this is something I have wished for but have never seen. In EQ I could equip my pet with gear, but armor never made a visual appearance and went away when your pet died. In newer games, I cannot equip pets with gear at all. I would like pets to have standard, persistent gear slots. When I equip a pet with armor and weapons I want to be able to see that gear. When a pet dies, I either want equipped gear returned, or for the gear slots to remain independent of the pet's status. The ability to equip pets with persistent gear would also help with gear-based scaling of pets. An issue that frequently occurs with pet classes.
The broker system from City of Heroes. It's not an auction house, but also did not require players to AFK in the bazaar while not playing.

What new/modern features would you like to see in Pantheon?

Amathe · November 2017

A very nice item that you get for mastering a crafting skill. Then make it challenging to master crafting skills (just one master crafting reward item wearable at a time).

Agnhar · November 2017

Trasnmog and dye systems are the top of the list, a way to not have to worry every 3 mobs i kill because my inventory is full is also something that would be welcomed. No flying but i wouldn't be opposed to gliding in zones where it makes sense.

Mendel · November 2017

I'm not opposed to a fast travel system, like DAoC's horse routes. I really don't want to spend hours just travelling from point A where I had fun to point B where I can have more fun. I wouldn't mind a system of convenient portals (like the timed portals at Wizard spires in EQ1) or a series of linked portals that cost something (coin or wait time). And what's wrong with a one-way portal or two?

I'm not even averse to some of the other modern features that are frequently cited as 'evil' by opponents of modern game features.

I'd like to see a 'secondary hub', a neutral place (like EQ1's PoK) where players can gather away from the starting area. This is likely to happen in any game, so why not design it from the start? Put banks, vendors, crafting stations and auction merchants in places where players will congregate, convenient to places where they will operate for an extended time.

I like auction houses, but not any of the current implementations. I certainly don't like making it advantageous to have a dedicated character (and possibly a dedicated account) to allow a single player to simultaneously hunt and sell. That seems to take a pretty major decision ("hunt for XP/Loot" or "sell") out of the players' hands, at least in my mind. (The nostalgia of East Commons tunnel pretty much incorporated that decision -- hunt or sell).

I'm a fan of community or world events / quests. The idea of stumbling on some ruckus that an orc commander is stirring up appeals to me. Just don't put these events on overly short or long timers. These shouldn't be a primary source for XP/Coin/Loot, but shouldn't be something that only a few people experience. A 3 day + 1-60 hour repeat cycle should be a reasonable compromise. (Would really love to see player-made events added to this cycle too).

These are pretty much the major 'modern' game features that I'd be happy to see in any game.

Xthos · November 2017

I like quality crafting that is in demand, I liked the nodes system in VG, that had common/uncommon/rare type spawns off of the nodes (they also had node sharing for a better yield, which was a newer concept back then). VG took a long time to level crafting, but unfortunately they also had people that cheated with programs to level crafting, and they almost never did anything about it, even when players were reported....So it almost hurt the honest player, to have a longer grind on it.

Limited instancing (which they said they are doing), I miss open world, big dungeons. I think a lot of the loot/bosses should be more random in location (not all need to be, but a huge dungeon should not only have 1-2 camps that people want, not saying they can't be the 'best' spots, but not just the only ones 'worth' it.).

I thought EQ/Vanguard had very good classes, so I have faith that they will deliver in this area.

I really hope they slow leveling down, hell levels and such could be a pain, but looking back, the longer leveling made things a lot more memorable/satisfying. I also hope they do not quest hub the game (I liked VG, but it was a little to quest hubbed). PVE in EQ, and classes were not forgiving in some places, like if you were a cloth caster and got agro in some dungeons, you could get killed very quickly...So I hope they keep the danger for messing up, and higher level than the hunting area roamers to keep you on your toes.

Travel...I am good with making means to keep travel to 10-20 minutes, at the furthest points. I do not think making sure you do not have to travel for 30+ minutes will break anything. I remember just missing the boats in OOT, and having to wait like 15 minutes for the next boat...You would just end up going afk for 10-12 minutes or so, I don't see the need for that type of wait on a boat (5 minutes is fine for me, it will not break anything imo).

Cash shop, I think they said no cash shop, but if they do it, cosmetic only, and maybe a way to earn the currency in game. Also if they do it, make it no-drop, to avoid the selling of cosmetic stuff for gold/items in game. I would prefer them to stick with no cash shop, but that's the 'what I can live with'.

I hope they keep sub only, and if they have a trial, I would prefer people not be able to macro resources, spam chat....Something like the island maybe in VG...I know they need a cheap/easy way to maybe get new people, but they need to limit the damage this can do to their sub paying customers.

No labor type system from Archeage that causes people to make it Altage (myself included). I want to get back to not being limited on 1 account, for your play style.

Sorry if I rambled, but I just got up...So just some random stuff.

deniter · November 2017

Why would any game have to copy any features from other games to begin with? Pantheon will be a brand new game with features of its own, some of which may or may not have resemblances to games in the past.

If i was one of the developers of Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen, i would be severely offended by how this question is set up.

Nightbringe1 · November 2017

deniter said:

Why would any game have to copy any features from other games to begin with? Pantheon will be a brand new game with features of its own, some of which may or may not have resemblances to games in the past.

If i was one of the developers of Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen, i would be severely offended by how this question is set up.

Many of the systems in any new MMO are going to be iterations of systems present in games long before the internet was a thing.

The question is not "is Pantheon going to have features already found in other games (e.g. spellcasting, character classes, or level advancement)", the question is which features and how will they be implemented.

Xarko · November 2017

I wouldnt be opposed to a certain modern feature called "decent combat system".

Adamantine · November 2017

Vanguard had appearance slots. You could place any gear into them. There was some special gear that would make your character appear naked; monks loved those.

Vanguard had housing pretty early on.

Vanguard had pet gear, at least for the real pet class, the Necromancer. There was a pretty involved system available for creating this gear, too.

Well, Vanguard just had an auction house. Personally I prefer a simple solution like an auction house. I really dont like the idea of wasting my time with things like inventory management or running around looking for a good trade.

Nightbringe1 · November 2017

Adamantine said:

Well, Vanguard just had an auction house. Personally I prefer a simple solution like an auction house. I really dont like the idea of wasting my time with things like inventory management or running around looking for a good trade.

Personally I've always preferred a broker system over an auction house.

A standard broker system, like EQ2, allows you to post your items at the desired price and your items will remain posted until sold. There are no timers. From the buyers perspective, you simply pay the current set price and move on.

City of Heroes was a little different. You posted buy orders and sell orders. If you posted a buy order and someone had the desired item for an equal of lesser price you immediately purchased the item. Otherwise your buy order stayed in place until someone posted the item and nobody was bidding higher or you canceled.

On the seller's side, you paid your commission based on the price you listed the item for. If buyers were offering equal to or greater than your list price, it sold immediately, otherwise it could sit as long as desired.

Buy and sell orders were not visible to others and list prices on items were only visible to the seller, but quantity on the market and most recent winning bids were visible to everyone.

Dullahan · November 2017

As long as a broker or auction comes with a sizeable fee (usually not the case), I don't mind it. The tax must be high enough that people consider not using the AH and selling the old fashioned way. That way it doesn't remove trader gameplay for those who enjoy it.

If everyone defaults to the auction because it's clearly the better value, then it was poorly designed for a social mmorpg that aims to emulate a virtual world.

Wizardry · November 2017

Ever hear of Amazon or online buying or going to a mall because you can get everything one place?
As typical,FFXI did it right,you have an AH but one for each city,separate from others so the prices change.You also limit how many items can go on the AH,that allows players to still sell their wares.
The reason the AH is a must is because unlike in real life,we cannot see EVERY item all at once before our eyes and tell the vendor...excuse me,i would like that item right over there,takes 2 seconds,we can't do that in a game.So to mimic the idea,we have an AH that has the items in some formed order so we can easily look for what we want.
Everything in a game is not all visual,we can't see a lot of things,so we will never be able to mimic real life perfectly.

Items should be difficult to attain,so the effort needed plus the effort to craft those items,is something not everyone wants to do,so it keeps the market and economy very much active.

However,if you create your game like a WOW clone,a fast race to end level,then every single thing the game tries to do before end level is pretty much meaningless,now THAT is a bad game design.

The game should feel like a living journey ,a long ride that we enjoy,it should NEVER feel like some race.I guess the best thing that could happen to rpg's is to lose the levels but they are such an EASY way for devs to formulate content and especially LINEAR content.

Dullahan · November 2017

I think regional is also an important point. When an AH is global, it just makes it too easy. That makes it really hard for anyone to not use such a system. When there are a few drawbacks or limitations, that will allow other alternatives like people selling manually.

kjempff · November 2017

Not that I think they would (or should), but here are a few things I would like (would have liked).

- Meaningful crafting: This would include some challenge in the crafting process, like eq2 .. just more, better. Also something I recently discovered in Warframe which is an extremely well made and interesting "minigame like" fishing and mining concept (try it in Warframe and expand on those ideas).
Also by meaningful I mean that there should be a symbiosis between adventures and crafters, in such a way that they are co-dependent.. crafters NEED difficult to get dropped/found resources to make stuff, while adventures NEED all kinds of crafted goods like repairing, kits, food/drink, potions, carrying services, and much more .. like really NEED not just mild convenience stuff.

- Open class system (which is unlikely to happen, but still..), where players can assume several roles depending on the situation, so we don't have the problem with eq of not being able to do anything without a set of very specific classes. To elaborate, these "skills" should not just be available but worked on and progressed by the player, so very dedicated players can master several roles if they put in the effort. Alternative could be a very versatile class setup, but I have my doubts that would really work well.. so I am looking at a skill based (with class/race/faction/deity/etc limitations) system instead.

- Dynamic events. Start with gw2 and work your way from there so it becomes actual real dynamic. This would include some kind of dynamic world like imagined in EqNext, as much as possible.

- Instancing. Yes I know, evil me I should be ashamed. But I really don't think instances by itself is bad, but it has to be done well and not being the carrying part of grouping (not like wow, more like LDoN in eq).

- Housing, enough said.

- Open and versatile and moddable GUI system (a bit like wow), so you can design a game experience more suited to your playstyle, and also circumvent some of the design choices (this is taste) that inevitably comes with a game.

.-.-.-.

NEVER EVER: Shop/f2p (the great ruiner of games), Scaling (mobs or players, the great ruiner of worlds), Story driven content (the great ruiner of freedom and roleplay), Vanity/Appearance (the great ruiner of feeling accomplished), Endgame (always have a system where the character can progress through xp/skill-xp/etc, that is not gear based).

Dullahan · December 2017

The only thing in the above list Pantheon won't have is that kind of instancing and open classes. They have big plans for crafting and making it important. They also intend for components to come from drops rather than entirely from easily collected nodes.

While I agree that scaling has a lot of negative impact, the real ruiner of semblance of worlds is instancing.

kjempff · December 2017

Dullahan said:

While I agree that scaling has a lot of negative impact, the real ruiner of semblance of worlds is instancing.

I kind of know what you mean, but I view instances more like a dynamic opportunity for adventure that makes the world feel bigger and unexplored. I agree that instances should not be a major part of the game experience, otherwise it would mess with the world feel.
Of course it has to be supported by lore and make sense in the world setting. Also instances need to feel new by events and random generated mapping etc.

I am dreaming of a more dynamic and changing world in mmos, where the developers keep forming the world with events. This is also the right kind of story telling and makes the world feel alive. Such events which are also time limited (weeks/months or until the developer find it needs to end, or until player interactions has pushed a solution or otherwise). As events I think instancing would make great sense and not messing with the world feel.

Here are some examples of events:
- Orc invasion where the orcs of yaddayadda rises (because reasons, lore, story telling) and invades a part of the world, roams, raiding, warring, and players are tasked to help stopping it (by many means, not just swinging swords and casting fireballs). Eventually the orcs have been weakened so much by players that the invasion event ends. A new period may rise from that, which could be a follow up event, where houses need to be rebuild (crafters?) or whatever the developer (story teller) can imagine should happen after the invasion.
- Political event where a king/lord dies and powerful houses fight for the right to rule. There could be a predetermined outcome (depends on what plans the developer aka story teller has) or a dynamic outcome based on player choices and interactions.

Or events of a grander scale, events leading up to new race being released, a new god arising, new lands being discovered and whatever the developer (story teller) want to happen in their world.
Events may sound like story driven game design, but in my opinion story driven is more about micromanaging (herding) players into stories, while events are on a much larger scale leaving the players with freedom.. makes sense I hope?

My point is a real living breathing world is constantly changing. Also a mmo that is moving forward is a great way to get/keep attention of players. Hehe, all this is suddenly not so much about instancing anymore, but a long detour to explain the case where instancing can be used in a positive way.

Loke666 · December 2017

I agree about the dye system, it is a very simple way to get some custimization for the players. Then again, I am not sure how new it is since I dyed my gear in Guildwars 2005 and I am far from certain it was the first game using the mechanics.

Nightbringe1 · December 2017

Dullahan said:

I think regional is also an important point. When an AH is global, it just makes it too easy. That makes it really hard for anyone to not use such a system. When there are a few drawbacks or limitations, that will allow other alternatives like people selling manually.

Lack of a broker/auction house and the resulting chaos/spam/scams in the trade channels are one of the reasons I no longer play Path of Exile.

Scott23 · December 2017

Loke666 said:

I agree about the dye system, it is a very simple way to get some custimization for the players. Then again, I am not sure how new it is since I dyed my gear in Guildwars 2005 and I am far from certain it was the first game using the mechanics.

I think EQ1 was the first MMO that introduced equipment dyeing (but I could be wrong

)

Thebeasttt · December 2017

Tolerable animations?

Scorchien · December 2017

Scott23 said:

Loke666 said:

I agree about the dye system, it is a very simple way to get some custimization for the players. Then again, I am not sure how new it is since I dyed my gear in Guildwars 2005 and I am far from certain it was the first game using the mechanics.

I think EQ1 was the first MMO that introduced equipment dyeing (but I could be wrong )

UO had/has Dying before that..

and as usual with most features UO did it

deniter · December 2017

Nightbringe1 said:

deniter said:

Why would any game have to copy any features from other games to begin with? Pantheon will be a brand new game with features of its own, some of which may or may not have resemblances to games in the past.

If i was one of the developers of Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen, i would be severely offended by how this question is set up.

Many of the systems in any new MMO are going to be iterations of systems present in games long before the internet was a thing.
The question is not "is Pantheon going to have features already found in other games (e.g. spellcasting, character classes, or level advancement)", the question is which features and how will they be implemented.

I'm well aware of that, but this whole conversation of upcoming games' features is ludicrous. It's like all the parts and components are already set and game developers can only build combinations of these materials. People on forums have long lists of features and game mechanics that has to be included in the game to make it even playable, or at least it has to be heavily moddable so it will play just like the game they have played a good half a decade already.

No wonder these games never evolve and we'll get the same crap year after year. Why wouldn't we give them a bit slack and let them think a little more outside the box.

Dagimir · December 2017

An engineer class that focuses on building simple firearms and clockwork contraptions. Also companions that are not tied to a class but can still do things if you level them up.

Curt2013 · December 2017

1. better graphics
2. decent animations

Modern mmo's can keep everything else

Scott23 · December 2017

Scorchien said:

Scott23 said:

Loke666 said:

I agree about the dye system, it is a very simple way to get some custimization for the players. Then again, I am not sure how new it is since I dyed my gear in Guildwars 2005 and I am far from certain it was the first game using the mechanics.

I think EQ1 was the first MMO that introduced equipment dyeing (but I could be wrong )

UO had/has Dying before that..

and as usual with most features UO did it

Ah, never played UO - my bad

Kyleran · December 2017

Scott23 said:

Scorchien said:

Scott23 said:

Loke666 said:

I agree about the dye system, it is a very simple way to get some custimization for the players. Then again, I am not sure how new it is since I dyed my gear in Guildwars 2005 and I am far from certain it was the first game using the mechanics.

I think EQ1 was the first MMO that introduced equipment dyeing (but I could be wrong )

UO had/has Dying before that..

and as usual with most features UO did it

Ah, never played UO - my bad

DAOC and GW1 both had gear dyeing in them.

Was considered basically a given until WOW and L2 succeeded without it.

Howdy, Stranger!

What modern features would you like/accept in Pantheon?

Comments

Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

Howdy, Stranger!

Quick Links

What modern features would you like/accept in Pantheon?

Comments

Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV