I meant OP as in Original Post, not Original Poster. My bad.
The post is named "CoE announces plan to commoditize and sell many perks individually, gets hit in face with backlash" and under reactions are posted only negative comments. But true, you never specifically used the word "only". It get the impression that's what was meant to be read between the lines., though.
As for my thread dying, I have a slight suspicion it's because there's nothing really for the haters to challenge ... except for maybe bringing up the changed release date. Which I notice you didn't forget in your latest reply. Good work. ; ) How about that 900K Kickstarter goal they would never reach, though?
If what I call baseless statements is facts, then please link me the origin of "they think they can even gave 200k on each server." Shouldn't be hard to do, since it feels very much like bait. Then, when you do, I'll just reply that they're just saying they think that, they don't really. Since no one can really present any proof of what people think. Or I could just ignore the bits of posts that's contrary to my opinion. That's how this works, right?
As for Caspian being "chased away by those very facts". So it's not that he realised that arguing with people who has years of training twisting and turning what's being said is like fighting water? Nah ... it's probably the "facts" that "scared" him away. Like the fact that he would never reach the 900k kickstarter goal.
When you say "continually over-promise, under-deliver" what do you mean? Could you please give me some examples? Using the word continually, I don't think a few examples is too much to ask for.
It's Thanksgiving so I'll respond to the rest of your rubbish later, but here is Caspien saying 100k per server is just the start and they hope for 200-250k
I apologise for calling that fact for a baseless statement. One could argue that there's a difference between they think they can and they hope they can, but that would just be petty. We're not all here to argue semantics, are we?
I meant OP as in Original Post, not Original Poster. My bad.
The post is named "CoE announces plan to commoditize and sell many perks individually, gets hit in face with backlash" and under reactions are posted only negative comments. But true, you never specifically used the word "only". It get the impression that's what was meant to be read between the lines., though.
As for my thread dying, I have a slight suspicion it's because there's nothing really for the haters to challenge ... except for maybe bringing up the changed release date. Which I notice you didn't forget in your latest reply. Good work. ; ) How about that 900K Kickstarter goal they would never reach, though?
If what I call baseless statements is facts, then please link me the origin of "they think they can even gave 200k on each server." Shouldn't be hard to do, since it feels very much like bait. Then, when you do, I'll just reply that they're just saying they think that, they don't really. Since no one can really present any proof of what people think. Or I could just ignore the bits of posts that's contrary to my opinion. That's how this works, right?
As for Caspian being "chased away by those very facts". So it's not that he realised that arguing with people who has years of training twisting and turning what's being said is like fighting water? Nah ... it's probably the "facts" that "scared" him away. Like the fact that he would never reach the 900k kickstarter goal.
When you say "continually over-promise, under-deliver" what do you mean? Could you please give me some examples? Using the word continually, I don't think a few examples is too much to ask for.
It's Thanksgiving so I'll respond to the rest of your rubbish later, but here is Caspien saying 100k per server is just the start and they hope for 200-250k
I apologise for calling that fact for a baseless statement. One could argue that there's a difference between they think they can and they hope they can, but that would just be petty. We're not all here to argue semantics, are we?
Happy thanksgiving, Slapshot.
Thank you!
You will similarly find that I admitted my mistaken belief when they hit their KS funding. Sorry I do not have the time to look back almost 2 years ago but I did admit my mistake.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
And you're saying SbS isn't? I'm calling this bit a baseless statement and challenge you to prove they're not.
I have had access to CU for well over a year. No it's not Beta... did I say anything about Beta? I think my package cost me 35 or 50 bucks. I don't play it because what is there is simply not fun to me currently, but thousands of actual players have had access which is what I said and far more than the zero that CoE has.
For part 2... they seem far more focused on raising money. That's my opinion as I was explaining why I treat CU differently than CoE. It's not because I'm a backer either as I backed Pathfinder at a high level but it was a POS. I don't defend things because I bought them.
And as I said... it was #4 that was and is the biggest difference. You miss your deadline by 2 years and don't offer refunds you deserve to be criticized.
I didn't say anything about Beta. Who said anything about Beta? I just boldenned a part about re-scheduling deadlines. Obviously games can do it and still be successful. Just not CoE?
Do you seriously propose that because CU (that kickstarted 2013) has players in and CoE (that kickstarted 2016) hasn't, CoE is a complete failure? Really?
As for the last bit ... all the noise being made about how changing their release date is utterly contemptable and proof the game will fail is not actually about changing their release date but doing it while not offfering refunds? They were very clear about the no refund from the start, it was not a surprise to anyone.
And just for the sake of clarity I'm not defending CoE just because I backed it. I defend it becasue it will be *the* MMORPG I've been waiting over 15 years for. Another couple of months does not phase me in the slightest.
And you're saying SbS isn't? I'm calling this bit a baseless statement and challenge you to prove they're not.
I have had access to CU for well over a year. No it's not Beta... did I say anything about Beta? I think my package cost me 35 or 50 bucks. I don't play it because what is there is simply not fun to me currently, but thousands of actual players have had access which is what I said and far more than the zero that CoE has.
For part 2... they seem far more focused on raising money. That's my opinion as I was explaining why I treat CU differently than CoE. It's not because I'm a backer either as I backed Pathfinder at a high level but it was a POS. I don't defend things because I bought them.
And as I said... it was #4 that was and is the biggest difference. You miss your deadline by 2 years and don't offer refunds you deserve to be criticized.
I didn't say anything about Beta. Who said anything about Beta? I just boldenned a part about re-scheduling deadlines. Obviously games can do it and still be successful. Just not CoE?
Do you seriously propose that because CU (that kickstarted 2013) has players in and CoE (that kickstarted 2016) hasn't, CoE is a complete failure? Really?
As for the last bit ... all the noise being made about how changing their release date is utterly contemptable and proof the game will fail is not actually about changing their release date but doing it while not offfering refunds? They were very clear about the no refund from the start, it was not a surprise to anyone.
And just for the sake of clarity I'm not defending CoE just because I backed it. I defend it becasue it will be *the* MMORPG I've been waiting over 15 years for. Another couple of months does not phase me in the slightest.
I didn't say anything about Beta. Who said anything about Beta? I just boldenned a part about re-scheduling deadlines. Obviously games can do it and still be successful. Just not CoE?
NOPE. I similarly said MJ demonstrated incompetence as well by missing his deadline so badly. The question wasn't whether they would be successful.. it was why I shit on all KS games to which I objected and proved false. (For the record I am highly skeptical that CU will be a success)
Do you seriously propose that because CU (that kickstarted 2013) has players in and CoE (that kickstarted 2016) hasn't, CoE is a complete failure? Really?
Complete failure? Certainly not yet but no reason to feel otherwise either. Once they actually start to deliver TANGIBLE product that can be judged we will see
As for the last bit ... all the noise being made about how changing their release date is utterly contemptable and proof the game will fail is not actually about changing their release date but doing it while not offfering refunds? They were very clear about the no refund from the start, it was not a surprise to anyone.
Again- The question being answered was why KS games are all treated so badly... to which I pointed out that they aren't. To me, the refund is a MAJOR reason why. As long as I can get my money back when you miss your ridiculous timeline that balances it out. If you post a ridiculous timeline, mock those who question it, then miss that timeline by 2 years you are going to get a lot of shit and it's well deserved. I don't expect Caspien to offer refunds as it would probably put them out of business quickly. That should really tell you all you need to know. IMHO if enough people want their money back that it jeopardizes the company then the company is doing some pretty crappy things. CU has a refund policy and yet they aren't going out of business as far as I know.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
It's also strange how the attackers claim their "facts" are right, when the game is still in development.
Also slapshot just because the thread died on this forum shows that most people here are only in for bashing a game in development, just like trolls would
I don't think anyone is bashing here but I do think that there is some questions as to what and how the total operation seem to be a little shady. I don't think anyone here really wants this project to fail but the project at this time seems to be a little off target and trying to cover way way to many avenues that by most, common sense is a bit over the top of what can and can't be accomplished with a small team.
It's also strange how the attackers claim their "facts" are right, when the game is still in development.
Also slapshot just because the thread died on this forum shows that most people here are only in for bashing a game in development, just like trolls would
Yeah, MMORPG is just full of trolls and no open minded, fair people like the highly moderated official forums right?
Just? He never said just.
This one was for you, Dakeru. As well as your fixed quote:
All of you CoE haters have one thing in common. Your tunnel view is so extreme that it's close to blindness.
He said "just like trolls would" and Slap picked that up "just full of trolls" You are changing the meaning of just here to suit your needs.
Funny Fact: The just in both sentences can be left out it doesn't change the meaning. Just like the exact meaning of OP doesn't change anything that had been said on either side.
It feels like you are just tossing around nonsense now to get us off the topic at hand.
It's also strange how the attackers claim their "facts" are right, when the game is still in development.
Also slapshot just because the thread died on this forum shows that most people here are only in for bashing a game in development, just like trolls would
Yeah, MMORPG is just full of trolls and no open minded, fair people like the highly moderated official forums right?
Just? He never said just.
This one was for you, Dakeru. As well as your fixed quote:
All of you CoE haters have one thing in common. Your tunnel view is so extreme that it's close to blindness.
Lol well picked up on that, it shows how some people will twist anyone's comments to justify their own perceptions of reality.
This is why I can't take you guys serious. All the time you just call Slap a liar - no wait pardon me, you are claiming he is spreading "misinformation"
I have seen that so often from various CoE supporters but no one ever brings up any points that were proven to be wrong.
You guys don't want to debate, you just want to chant "misinformation misinformation" like some mantra until you actually believe you are right.
It's also strange how the attackers claim their "facts" are right, when the game is still in development.
Also slapshot just because the thread died on this forum shows that most people here are only in for bashing a game in development, just like trolls would
Yeah, MMORPG is just full of trolls and no open minded, fair people like the highly moderated official forums right?
Just? He never said just.
This one was for you, Dakeru. As well as your fixed quote:
All of you CoE haters have one thing in common. Your tunnel view is so extreme that it's close to blindness.
Lol well picked up on that, it shows how some people will twist anyone's comments to justify their own perceptions of reality.
This is why I can't take you guys serious. All the time you just call Slap a liar - no wait pardon me, you are claiming he is spreading "misinformation"
I have seen that so often from various CoE supporters but no one ever brings up any points that were proven to be wrong.
You guys don't want to debate, you just want to chant "misinformation misinformation" like some mantra until you actually believe you are right.
The thread was linked by Caspien to his followers... that explains a lot of it. Remember all the one post wonders a few weeks back right after Caspien popped in?
Guys like "JustDrake" and Tekkon literally have no posts in their history other than CoE ones...does that invalidate their statements? Of course not, but it should bring perspective to their comments. I wish guys like these two would actually broaden their horizon a bit and participate in the wider community. Join some discussion on other games... or on loot boxes... or the what makes an MMO massive... You know what I mean? Join the community a bit instead of just popping in to complain about the CoE coverage. The MMORPG.COM community is awesome. It's the best collection of people to discuss our hobby (MMORPGs) in the world. You get perspectives from every side and all in between. Its quite a foreign concept to those who just come in from the highly moderated official forums of games, but once you understand that, there is nothing else like it out there.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
What gives you guys confidence that a polished game will be released with all of the promised features?
Actually that they don't care about polish is something I understand. I invested 100$ in a kickstarter game long ago. The game was just a playable demo and full of bugs. The dev only showed up once in a while without any real news cause she never got an investor.
And still I don't feel like it was wasted time and money. The community and the glitchy game were really enjoyable in their own ways.
It's just that I never lost my sense of realism and I knew she would pull the plug on the development one day. She was a nice person with her head full of dreams and at some point financial reality caught up. Can't blame her really.
TL;DR Games don't need polish to be enjoyable but the fans shouldn't fall into blind faith.
As someone who used to be a high level backer of this game I can't say I'm surprised by this move. Unfortunately, it's one more sign that the developer has over-promised and under-delivered, something all too common in games developed with crowdsourced funding. It's a shame too because the developers are very passionate about the game and they have some great ideas. Though this kind of monetization practice might help them in the short term, in the long run they're going to alienate more people and end up releasing a sub-par version of their product just to stay afloat.
As someone who used to be a high level backer of this game I can't say I'm surprised by this move. Unfortunately, it's one more sign that the developer has over-promised and under-delivered, something all too common in games developed with crowdsourced funding. It's a shame too because the developers are very passionate about the game and they have some great ideas. Though this kind of monetization practice might help them in the short term, in the long run they're going to alienate more people and end up releasing a sub-par version of their product just to stay afloat.
You say you used to be a high level backer. Can I ask if that means you are no longer one? If so, how did you get your money back and what is it that caused you to leave?
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
What gives you guys confidence that a polished game will be released with all of the promised features?
Actually that they don't care about polish is something I understand. I invested 100$ in a kickstarter game long ago. The game was just a playable demo and full of bugs. The dev only showed up once in a while without any real news cause she never got an investor.
And still I don't feel like it was wasted time and money. The community and the glitchy game were really enjoyable in their own ways.
It's just that I never lost my sense of realism and I knew she would pull the plug on the development one day. She was a nice person with her head full of dreams and at some point financial reality caught up. Can't blame her really.
TL;DR Games don't need polish to be enjoyable but the fans shouldn't fall into blind faith.
Are there games that aren't polished but fun and enjoyable? Yes, (PUBG)
Should the above maxim give CoE and the MMO industry an excuse to not aim for a polished and well-rounded game? No.
On top of the extremely suspicious time line the dev set up, there have been no demos showing their work on what makes CoE special (Astral plain walk, OPC, Talents, etc).
If the devs admit they're not expecting a polished game, it gives them extra space for laziness and short-cuts and is sort of like metaphorically spitting in their customers' faces.
- Extremely suspicious time line (bait and switch) - No refunds after revealing that they will launch in 2019 or whatever their release date is - No meaningful demos - Very minimal information released on the mechanics of anything and everything - Weird circumstances with talks of getting an investor - ETC
And remember, this behavior is during their development phase, when they should be trying their best to attract and maintain their followers. Can you imagine what it will be like after or towards release? This is why games and their respective companies should aim for what's realistic and not aim for mediocrity.
If Caspian had uttered the words "the game may not be too polished come release date" I doubt anyone could grill him on those words alone provided he did the best he could and was realistic and kept his track record clean.
Do I hope the game turns out well because I like it's integral concepts? Yes
Do I currently think the game will turn out as announced? Absolutely-fucking-not
You say you used to be a high level backer. Can I ask if that means you are no longer one? If so, how did you get your money back and what is it that caused you to leave?
I sold my account for a loss to someone who wanted the backer rewards but I'd rather not get into more detail than that. What caused me to leave was the way they handled certain promises about player scripting, the release date, and other development details. It boiled down to them being like 'Well of course we're not going to make the deadline we quoted' and I was a little bitter about it seeing as how I had been backing them up and stating the opposite. Don't get me wrong, the developers and community are great but I no longer have faith that this game will accomplish even half of what it promises without major changes being made somewhere along the line.
It's also strange how the attackers claim their "facts" are right, when the game is still in development.
Also slapshot just because the thread died on this forum shows that most people here are only in for bashing a game in development, just like trolls would
Yeah, MMORPG is just full of trolls and no open minded, fair people like the highly moderated official forums right?
Just? He never said just.
This one was for you, Dakeru. As well as your fixed quote:
All of you CoE haters have one thing in common. Your tunnel view is so extreme that it's close to blindness.
Lol well picked up on that, it shows how some people will twist anyone's comments to justify their own perceptions of reality.
This is why I can't take you guys serious. All the time you just call Slap a liar - no wait pardon me, you are claiming he is spreading "misinformation"
I have seen that so often from various CoE supporters but no one ever brings up any points that were proven to be wrong.
You guys don't want to debate, you just want to chant "misinformation misinformation" like some mantra until you actually believe you are right.
I don't call him a liar, i have agreed with him on a point or two.
I agree with:
The Devs handled the Kickstarter badly especially the release date.
The no refunds policy hurts them(I actually requested a refund over the way a payment went through their vendor.) They would be better to offer refunds minus their fees.
Caspian's attitude/PR skills hurt the game when he gets worked up over the game (It's his baby so I understand it to some degree)
And probably some other issues too.
What I really do disagree with his slapshot's seeming one man crusade to see this game fail. If the game is going to fail like he claims why not leave it to fail and just say....
"Told you so"
Instead he constantly picks up on little things and blows them all out of context. Take this thread for example the devs were not hit by a backlash, maybe 0.5% of the backers complained in a semi vocal way on the forums for about 2 days. And it wasn't that they would have pledged less, juat that they would have made their own custom packs.
This could be fixed by offering store credit to the value they have spent and allow people to build a custom pack.
TLDR No I don't think he is a liar just misinformed/misunderstanding the COE community and passing that misinformation on
What gives you guys confidence that a polished game will be released with all of the promised features?
Actually that they don't care about polish is something I understand. I invested 100$ in a kickstarter game long ago. The game was just a playable demo and full of bugs. The dev only showed up once in a while without any real news cause she never got an investor.
And still I don't feel like it was wasted time and money. The community and the glitchy game were really enjoyable in their own ways.
It's just that I never lost my sense of realism and I knew she would pull the plug on the development one day. She was a nice person with her head full of dreams and at some point financial reality caught up. Can't blame her really.
TL;DR Games don't need polish to be enjoyable but the fans shouldn't fall into blind faith.
Are there games that aren't polished but fun and enjoyable? Yes, (PUBG)
Should the above maxim give CoE and the MMO industry an excuse to not aim for a polished and well-rounded game? No.
On top of the extremely suspicious time line the dev set up, there have been no demos showing their work on what makes CoE special (Astral plain walk, OPC, Talents, etc).
If the devs admit they're not expecting a polished game, it gives them extra space for laziness and short-cuts and is sort of like metaphorically spitting in their customers' faces.
Not arguing with you in the least. Just stating that for once I understand the feelings of the fans.
I don't tend to frequent MMORPG.com as much any more, but I saw this post and I was again disgusted to see people still trying to tear down the hard work my team does, the progress we've made, and the close connection we have with our community.
The entire premise of this post is misleading, which was clearly the intention from the beginning.
The title of this topic is: "CoE announces plan to commoditize and sell many perks individually, gets hit in face with backlash"
However, there has been no backlash. We were asked to make the change. Have there been a few people who complained on our forum about the change? Of course. And I believe the OP quoted every one of them.
What they intentionally didn't quote are the following:
"Great update, Vye. Now's the time to fill your boots, people "
""Finally a Surname " "God bless Vie. Lol about time"
"That's super exciting! I can't wait to see what the prices are for some of the a la carte items!"
In short, the post in question is 6 pages long, and there's a mix of both extremely happy people, and some unhappy. But, you'll notice that the topic itself has a post score of +16. Meaning, at the very least 16 more people felt the need to upvote than downvote.
A couple days later we posted the prices for the a la carte, which has received +41 upvotes.
"Beautiful update thank you for giving us what we asked! The thing about donating to the International Association for Suicide Prevention is a wonderful idea. Thank you Soulbound"
"Awsome! Thank you.Caspian!"
""For every purchase of the "Headstone Name & Message" a la carte item, Soulbound Studios will donate $25 (50%) to the International Association for Suicide Prevention."
Amazing! Never expected you guys to do this, just incredible."
In short, we made the change because a ton of people asked to provide those things a la carte in a way that meant people who purchased the packages got a huge discount, while others who didn't want to spend so much still got what they wanted.
All that aside, the company is making huge progress, the game is coming along nicely, and our Alpha 1 backers will be getting into the game using the VoxElyria client as early as January.
In case you're not actively following our development, here's the latest developer journal:
In closing, don't believe everything you read on these forums. We've got 1,500 members in our Discord channel, actively engaging with us on a daily basis. So you can either read the trashy forum posts here, or you can come into our Discord or join our forums and talk directly to us.
We really aren't like everyone else. No matter what the MMORPG.com forums lead you to believe.
Also look at this the Developer took time to come to this forum and talk to you about his game, I have never heard of any AAA devs or Indy devs doing that. Caspian is right discord is the place to be so come join us. https://discord.gg/JqSUuDY Any questions just find me on Discord and ill do my best to answer.
In the interest of accuracy, Mark Jacobs comes here regularly to discuss CU with us. The good, the bad, and the ugly. Kilsin from VR has also been spotted around here more than once, if I'm not mistaken.
Another oldie but goodie.
Jeromy's last known forum post was in this very thread but this one caught my eye as both he and MJ have ghosted this site for quite some time now.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I don't tend to frequent MMORPG.com as much any more, but I saw this post and I was again disgusted to see people still trying to tear down the hard work my team does, the progress we've made, and the close connection we have with our community.
The entire premise of this post is misleading, which was clearly the intention from the beginning.
The title of this topic is: "CoE announces plan to commoditize and sell many perks individually, gets hit in face with backlash"
However, there has been no backlash. We were asked to make the change. Have there been a few people who complained on our forum about the change? Of course. And I believe the OP quoted every one of them.
What they intentionally didn't quote are the following:
"Great update, Vye. Now's the time to fill your boots, people "
""Finally a Surname " "God bless Vie. Lol about time"
"That's super exciting! I can't wait to see what the prices are for some of the a la carte items!"
In short, the post in question is 6 pages long, and there's a mix of both extremely happy people, and some unhappy. But, you'll notice that the topic itself has a post score of +16. Meaning, at the very least 16 more people felt the need to upvote than downvote.
A couple days later we posted the prices for the a la carte, which has received +41 upvotes.
"Beautiful update thank you for giving us what we asked! The thing about donating to the International Association for Suicide Prevention is a wonderful idea. Thank you Soulbound"
"Awsome! Thank you.Caspian!"
""For every purchase of the "Headstone Name & Message" a la carte item, Soulbound Studios will donate $25 (50%) to the International Association for Suicide Prevention."
Amazing! Never expected you guys to do this, just incredible."
In short, we made the change because a ton of people asked to provide those things a la carte in a way that meant people who purchased the packages got a huge discount, while others who didn't want to spend so much still got what they wanted.
All that aside, the company is making huge progress, the game is coming along nicely, and our Alpha 1 backers will be getting into the game using the VoxElyria client as early as January.
In case you're not actively following our development, here's the latest developer journal:
In closing, don't believe everything you read on these forums. We've got 1,500 members in our Discord channel, actively engaging with us on a daily basis. So you can either read the trashy forum posts here, or you can come into our Discord or join our forums and talk directly to us.
We really aren't like everyone else. No matter what the MMORPG.com forums lead you to believe.
Also look at this the Developer took time to come to this forum and talk to you about his game, I have never heard of any AAA devs or Indy devs doing that. Caspian is right discord is the place to be so come join us. https://discord.gg/JqSUuDY Any questions just find me on Discord and ill do my best to answer.
In the interest of accuracy, Mark Jacobs comes here regularly to discuss CU with us. The good, the bad, and the ugly. Kilsin from VR has also been spotted around here more than once, if I'm not mistaken.
Another oldie but goodie.
Jeromy's last known forum post was in this very thread but this one caught my eye as both he and MJ have ghosted this site for quite some time now.
I imagine the embarrassment is too great to bear.
Yeah this was/is a classic. Just read his post above from Oct 2017 where he talks about players being allowed in around January 2018. That was 3 months from his post. We are now 2 years and counting.
Please... anyone doubting the “Harbingers”, do yourself a favor and go read all the now proven bullshit this guy has spewed in an attempt to get your money and compare it to reality now.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
I don't tend to frequent MMORPG.com as much any more, but I saw this post and I was again disgusted to see people still trying to tear down the hard work my team does, the progress we've made, and the close connection we have with our community.
The entire premise of this post is misleading, which was clearly the intention from the beginning.
The title of this topic is: "CoE announces plan to commoditize and sell many perks individually, gets hit in face with backlash"
However, there has been no backlash. We were asked to make the change. Have there been a few people who complained on our forum about the change? Of course. And I believe the OP quoted every one of them.
What they intentionally didn't quote are the following:
"Great update, Vye. Now's the time to fill your boots, people "
""Finally a Surname " "God bless Vie. Lol about time"
"That's super exciting! I can't wait to see what the prices are for some of the a la carte items!"
In short, the post in question is 6 pages long, and there's a mix of both extremely happy people, and some unhappy. But, you'll notice that the topic itself has a post score of +16. Meaning, at the very least 16 more people felt the need to upvote than downvote.
A couple days later we posted the prices for the a la carte, which has received +41 upvotes.
"Beautiful update thank you for giving us what we asked! The thing about donating to the International Association for Suicide Prevention is a wonderful idea. Thank you Soulbound"
"Awsome! Thank you.Caspian!"
""For every purchase of the "Headstone Name & Message" a la carte item, Soulbound Studios will donate $25 (50%) to the International Association for Suicide Prevention."
Amazing! Never expected you guys to do this, just incredible."
In short, we made the change because a ton of people asked to provide those things a la carte in a way that meant people who purchased the packages got a huge discount, while others who didn't want to spend so much still got what they wanted.
All that aside, the company is making huge progress, the game is coming along nicely, and our Alpha 1 backers will be getting into the game using the VoxElyria client as early as January.
In case you're not actively following our development, here's the latest developer journal:
In closing, don't believe everything you read on these forums. We've got 1,500 members in our Discord channel, actively engaging with us on a daily basis. So you can either read the trashy forum posts here, or you can come into our Discord or join our forums and talk directly to us.
We really aren't like everyone else. No matter what the MMORPG.com forums lead you to believe.
Also look at this the Developer took time to come to this forum and talk to you about his game, I have never heard of any AAA devs or Indy devs doing that. Caspian is right discord is the place to be so come join us. https://discord.gg/JqSUuDY Any questions just find me on Discord and ill do my best to answer.
In the interest of accuracy, Mark Jacobs comes here regularly to discuss CU with us. The good, the bad, and the ugly. Kilsin from VR has also been spotted around here more than once, if I'm not mistaken.
Another oldie but goodie.
Jeromy's last known forum post was in this very thread but this one caught my eye as both he and MJ have ghosted this site for quite some time now.
I imagine the embarrassment is too great to bear.
Yeah this was/is a classic. Just read his post from Oct 3017 where he talks about players being allowed in around January 2018. That was 3 months from his post. We are now 2 years and counting.
Please... anyone doubting the “Harbingers”, do yourself a favor and go read all the now proven bullshit this guy has spewed in an attempt to get your money and compare it to reality now.
A lot of idiots on this planet.Scummy people don't need to try too hard to rip people off.
BTW in case most if not all forget,i don't and i notice everything,that chick we saw early on during his sell job was in on it.You probably have no idea who i am talking about,no surprise.
No different than Robert's paying notable people to endorse his product during it's early sell job phase,like Angry Joe for one.There are sure signs of deception,IF and only IF people pay attention.Things like always skeptical or cautious then al of a sudden a change,THIS game is the such a great game,this is going to be the best genre killer ever etc etc.
There are lots of signs like this if you only pay attention.This game for example sounded nice on paper,almost too good to be true,i was in for about a week,2-3 posts later and i could see the deception.
There is only ONE way to see a legit game,it goes up for sale with NO adverts,no writers telling you how great it is,no streamers with early access telling you how great it is,no websites telling you,NOTHING<just a for sale sign,buy it or leave it.Soon as you see the sell job you know you are going to be fed a LOT of BS.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
I don't tend to frequent MMORPG.com as much any more, but I saw this post and I was again disgusted to see people still trying to tear down the hard work my team does, the progress we've made, and the close connection we have with our community.
The entire premise of this post is misleading, which was clearly the intention from the beginning.
The title of this topic is: "CoE announces plan to commoditize and sell many perks individually, gets hit in face with backlash"
However, there has been no backlash. We were asked to make the change. Have there been a few people who complained on our forum about the change? Of course. And I believe the OP quoted every one of them.
What they intentionally didn't quote are the following:
"Great update, Vye. Now's the time to fill your boots, people "
""Finally a Surname " "God bless Vie. Lol about time"
"That's super exciting! I can't wait to see what the prices are for some of the a la carte items!"
In short, the post in question is 6 pages long, and there's a mix of both extremely happy people, and some unhappy. But, you'll notice that the topic itself has a post score of +16. Meaning, at the very least 16 more people felt the need to upvote than downvote.
A couple days later we posted the prices for the a la carte, which has received +41 upvotes.
"Beautiful update thank you for giving us what we asked! The thing about donating to the International Association for Suicide Prevention is a wonderful idea. Thank you Soulbound"
"Awsome! Thank you.Caspian!"
""For every purchase of the "Headstone Name & Message" a la carte item, Soulbound Studios will donate $25 (50%) to the International Association for Suicide Prevention."
Amazing! Never expected you guys to do this, just incredible."
In short, we made the change because a ton of people asked to provide those things a la carte in a way that meant people who purchased the packages got a huge discount, while others who didn't want to spend so much still got what they wanted.
All that aside, the company is making huge progress, the game is coming along nicely, and our Alpha 1 backers will be getting into the game using the VoxElyria client as early as January.
In case you're not actively following our development, here's the latest developer journal:
In closing, don't believe everything you read on these forums. We've got 1,500 members in our Discord channel, actively engaging with us on a daily basis. So you can either read the trashy forum posts here, or you can come into our Discord or join our forums and talk directly to us.
We really aren't like everyone else. No matter what the MMORPG.com forums lead you to believe.
Also look at this the Developer took time to come to this forum and talk to you about his game, I have never heard of any AAA devs or Indy devs doing that. Caspian is right discord is the place to be so come join us. https://discord.gg/JqSUuDY Any questions just find me on Discord and ill do my best to answer.
In the interest of accuracy, Mark Jacobs comes here regularly to discuss CU with us. The good, the bad, and the ugly. Kilsin from VR has also been spotted around here more than once, if I'm not mistaken.
Another oldie but goodie.
Jeromy's last known forum post was in this very thread but this one caught my eye as both he and MJ have ghosted this site for quite some time now.
I imagine the embarrassment is too great to bear.
Yeah this was/is a classic. Just read his post from Oct 3017 where he talks about players being allowed in around January 2018. That was 3 months from his post. We are now 2 years and counting.
Please... anyone doubting the “Harbingers”, do yourself a favor and go read all the now proven bullshit this guy has spewed in an attempt to get your money and compare it to reality now.
A lot like the SC posters.
Well in all fairness SC backers can go log in right now and play what's there, same for CF and even Dual Universe supporters.
Can't say the same for CU, Pantheon or COE fans though.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Comments
Happy thanksgiving, Slapshot.
You will similarly find that I admitted my mistaken belief when they hit their KS funding. Sorry I do not have the time to look back almost 2 years ago but I did admit my mistake.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Do you seriously propose that because CU (that kickstarted 2013) has players in and CoE (that kickstarted 2016) hasn't, CoE is a complete failure? Really?
As for the last bit ... all the noise being made about how changing their release date is utterly contemptable and proof the game will fail is not actually about changing their release date but doing it while not offfering refunds? They were very clear about the no refund from the start, it was not a surprise to anyone.
And just for the sake of clarity I'm not defending CoE just because I backed it. I defend it becasue it will be *the* MMORPG I've been waiting over 15 years for. Another couple of months does not phase me in the slightest.
NOPE. I similarly said MJ demonstrated incompetence as well by missing his deadline so badly. The question wasn't whether they would be successful.. it was why I shit on all KS games to which I objected and proved false. (For the record I am highly skeptical that CU will be a success)
Do you seriously propose that because CU (that kickstarted 2013) has players in and CoE (that kickstarted 2016) hasn't, CoE is a complete failure? Really?
Complete failure? Certainly not yet but no reason to feel otherwise either. Once they actually start to deliver TANGIBLE product that can be judged we will see
As for the last bit ... all the noise being made about how changing their release date is utterly contemptable and proof the game will fail is not actually about changing their release date but doing it while not offfering refunds? They were very clear about the no refund from the start, it was not a surprise to anyone.
Again- The question being answered was why KS games are all treated so badly... to which I pointed out that they aren't. To me, the refund is a MAJOR reason why. As long as I can get my money back when you miss your ridiculous timeline that balances it out. If you post a ridiculous timeline, mock those who question it, then miss that timeline by 2 years you are going to get a lot of shit and it's well deserved. I don't expect Caspien to offer refunds as it would probably put them out of business quickly. That should really tell you all you need to know. IMHO if enough people want their money back that it jeopardizes the company then the company is doing some pretty crappy things. CU has a refund policy and yet they aren't going out of business as far as I know.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
I don't think anyone is bashing here but I do think that there is some questions as to what and how the total operation seem to be a little shady. I don't think anyone here really wants this project to fail but the project at this time seems to be a little off target and trying to cover way way to many avenues that by most, common sense is a bit over the top of what can and can't be accomplished with a small team.
If you are interested in making a MMO maybe visit my page to get a free open source engine.
You are changing the meaning of just here to suit your needs.
Funny Fact: The just in both sentences can be left out it doesn't change the meaning.
Just like the exact meaning of OP doesn't change anything that had been said on either side.
It feels like you are just tossing around nonsense now to get us off the topic at hand.
All the time you just call Slap a liar - no wait pardon me, you are claiming he is spreading "misinformation"
I have seen that so often from various CoE supporters but no one ever brings up any points that were proven to be wrong.
You guys don't want to debate, you just want to chant "misinformation misinformation" like some mantra until you actually believe you are right.
Guys like "JustDrake" and Tekkon literally have no posts in their history other than CoE ones...does that invalidate their statements? Of course not, but it should bring perspective to their comments. I wish guys like these two would actually broaden their horizon a bit and participate in the wider community. Join some discussion on other games... or on loot boxes... or the what makes an MMO massive... You know what I mean? Join the community a bit instead of just popping in to complain about the CoE coverage. The MMORPG.COM community is awesome. It's the best collection of people to discuss our hobby (MMORPGs) in the world. You get perspectives from every side and all in between. Its quite a foreign concept to those who just come in from the highly moderated official forums of games, but once you understand that, there is nothing else like it out there.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
It's been about two years and the best they can show is a jousting demo.
That alone is sort of discouraging.
I invested 100$ in a kickstarter game long ago.
The game was just a playable demo and full of bugs. The dev only showed up once in a while without any real news cause she never got an investor.
And still I don't feel like it was wasted time and money.
The community and the glitchy game were really enjoyable in their own ways.
It's just that I never lost my sense of realism and I knew she would pull the plug on the development one day. She was a nice person with her head full of dreams and at some point financial reality caught up.
Can't blame her really.
TL;DR
Games don't need polish to be enjoyable but the fans shouldn't fall into blind faith.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Seaspite
Playing ESO on my X-Box
Are there games that aren't polished but fun and enjoyable? Yes, (PUBG)
Should the above maxim give CoE and the MMO industry an excuse to not aim for a polished and well-rounded game? No.
On top of the extremely suspicious time line the dev set up, there have been no demos showing their work on what makes CoE special (Astral plain walk, OPC, Talents, etc).
If the devs admit they're not expecting a polished game, it gives them extra space for laziness and short-cuts and is sort of like metaphorically spitting in their customers' faces.
- Extremely suspicious time line (bait and switch)
- No refunds after revealing that they will launch in 2019 or whatever their release date is
- No meaningful demos
- Very minimal information released on the mechanics of anything and everything
- Weird circumstances with talks of getting an investor
- ETC
And remember, this behavior is during their development phase, when they should be trying their best to attract and maintain their followers. Can you imagine what it will be like after or towards release? This is why games and their respective companies should aim for what's realistic and not aim for mediocrity.
If Caspian had uttered the words "the game may not be too polished come release date" I doubt anyone could grill him on those words alone provided he did the best he could and was realistic and kept his track record clean.
Do I hope the game turns out well because I like it's integral concepts? Yes
Do I currently think the game will turn out as announced? Absolutely-fucking-not
I agree with:
The Devs handled the Kickstarter badly especially the release date.
The no refunds policy hurts them(I actually requested a refund over the way a payment went through their vendor.)
They would be better to offer refunds minus their fees.
Caspian's attitude/PR skills hurt the game when he gets worked up over the game (It's his baby so I understand it to some degree)
And probably some other issues too.
What I really do disagree with his slapshot's seeming one man crusade to see this game fail. If the game is going to fail like he claims why not leave it to fail and just say....
"Told you so"
Instead he constantly picks up on little things and blows them all out of context.
Take this thread for example the devs were not hit by a backlash, maybe 0.5% of the backers complained in a semi vocal way on the forums for about 2 days.
And it wasn't that they would have pledged less, juat that they would have made their own custom packs.
This could be fixed by offering store credit to the value they have spent and allow people to build a custom pack.
TLDR
No I don't think he is a liar just misinformed/misunderstanding the COE community and passing that misinformation on
Just stating that for once I understand the feelings of the fans.
Jeromy's last known forum post was in this very thread but this one caught my eye as both he and MJ have ghosted this site for quite some time now.
I imagine the embarrassment is too great to bear.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Please... anyone doubting the “Harbingers”, do yourself a favor and go read all the now proven bullshit this guy has spewed in an attempt to get your money and compare it to reality now.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
A lot of idiots on this planet.Scummy people don't need to try too hard to rip people off.
BTW in case most if not all forget,i don't and i notice everything,that chick we saw early on during his sell job was in on it.You probably have no idea who i am talking about,no surprise.
No different than Robert's paying notable people to endorse his product during it's early sell job phase,like Angry Joe for one.There are sure signs of deception,IF and only IF people pay attention.Things like always skeptical or cautious then al of a sudden a change,THIS game is the such a great game,this is going to be the best genre killer ever etc etc.
There are lots of signs like this if you only pay attention.This game for example sounded nice on paper,almost too good to be true,i was in for about a week,2-3 posts later and i could see the deception.
There is only ONE way to see a legit game,it goes up for sale with NO adverts,no writers telling you how great it is,no streamers with early access telling you how great it is,no websites telling you,NOTHING<just a for sale sign,buy it or leave it.Soon as you see the sell job you know you are going to be fed a LOT of BS.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Can't say the same for CU, Pantheon or COE fans though.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon