A BIG NO! to LFG... While I don't have very fond memories of repeatedly yelling 'LF2M TANK/DPS for WC', the difficultly of grouping made dungeon runs something a bit more special (i.e. than speed runs for XP)… it made people NEED to talk to each other, and actually work together... it also made guilds, friends, and just generally being a good person in game much more beneficial.
When I read the OPs mention of LFG, I took it another way. I was thinking it referred to more of a way to show you are lfg or that your group is lfm, kind of like every other game has lol. It would be nice to be able to do a search and see what levels are lfg, then message them if they want a group.
Like how it is in EQ1 or even ffxiv (not the instant dungeon one, but just the group forming one). I know it is nice in EQ when I'm playing on a progression server and just have /lfg on, doing my own thing until I get a tell for a group. I was always surprised WoW never had something like that (that I remember).
There was a mod that was sort of a group finder, but being a mod it didn't get very wide spread use... as for the FFXIV style Party Finder, it's almost as bad as a straight up instant dungeon finder; i.e. people click a UI to join, maybe say 'hello', party is queued and everyone teleports in, first wipe (or even non-speed kill) and it's 'you all suck', party disbands, repeat...
An LFG flag could work, but I think I'd still prefer Vanilla the way it was, worts and all, with any 'improvements' made after launch.
When I read the OPs mention of LFG, I took it another way. I was thinking it referred to more of a way to show you are lfg or that your group is lfm, kind of like every other game has lol. It would be nice to be able to do a search and see what levels are lfg, then message them if they want a group.
Like how it is in EQ1 or even ffxiv (not the instant dungeon one, but just the group forming one). I know it is nice in EQ when I'm playing on a progression server and just have /lfg on, doing my own thing until I get a tell for a group. I was always surprised WoW never had something like that (that I remember).
There was a mod that was sort of a group finder, but being a mod it didn't get very wide spread use... as for the FFXIV style Party Finder, it's almost as bad as a straight up instant dungeon finder; i.e. people click a UI to join, maybe say 'hello', party is queued and everyone teleports in, first wipe (or even non-speed kill) and it's 'you all suck', party disbands, repeat...
An LFG flag could work, but I think I'd still prefer Vanilla the way it was, worts and all, with any 'improvements' made after launch.
That is why I alwys liked EQ1's the best. Just put the lfg tag on and people know you're interested in grouping. There was actually some communication lol. Of course that probably is 1 of the reasons I still play EQ. Probably going back to agnarr soon since velious just opened this month and a bit until luclin.
Oh, the 1 positive about no group finder would be people might actually stay to do a 2nd dungeon run lol.
I think Garret should stick with the current version of WoW where he can have all the "quality of life" he wants .Much of what he suggests would ruin the proposed Vanilla servers .
He says he liked Vanilla pvp but the looking for a group tool killed most world pvp overnight on the majority of servers when it was introduced ( sometime after the Lich King expansion I think )
Not all of us want to grind dungeon after dungeon or raid after raid with people from other servers who we will never get to socialize again once that dungeon is finished. Some of us like to see people questing in the open world (something that the looking for a group tool has quite a limiting effect on ) and team up with players and hopefully make a few friends . Some of us liked the community that built up on WoW servers in those early years which is something the current game lacks now
In fact you know what I hope if these are successful Blizzard start looking to offer the pristine servers that they were talking about a while back which were essentially offering the new content but with features very similar to Vanilla WoW so we can play the new content without all the "quality of life " tools and changes designed to stream line the game but had the effect of sucking the life out of it for many of one time players like myself .
Thankfully Blizzard seem to realize Vanilla means Vanilla and not the Vanilla lite .
This and this alone will determine if some if not many come back, me included. I grew tired in Wrath of the way the skill traits were going from a tree to now getting a skill every 15 levels. They said they wanted diversity? it only made more people exactly the same. You no longer had to think about what you were choosing when picking traits when trying to get to a specific skill anymore.
What they really meant to say was "We want to get more people to subscribe so we will make it a no brainer to what can be done so that facerolling will be come the norm." Otherwise, make it as simple as possible so that people no longer have to think and will just play and keep paying to do so.
Personally I'd like to see modern crafting with vanilla dungeons and raids incl their original loot.
I want to help design and develop a PvE-focused, solo-friendly, sandpark MMO which combines crafting, monster hunting, and story. So PM me if you are starting one.
Gonna say something that will probably be unpopular.
A lack of LFG in itself won't bring back the great feeling we had back then. Yes, yes, those times are GONE, we really need to deal with this thing and learn to put what was in the past. How do I know it? Because i play other games that don't have LFG and you aren't making connections like you used to in WoW. Take Destiny 2 for example. You need a real group for the raid, no LFR. The "Heroic" Nightfall difficulty and the "Mythic" Prestige for dungeons also require you to go out of your way to find people, and there are LFG sites for it. You think people talk? Nope. You think you will meet the guy you did your weekly runs with again? Most probably not. People just want it done as fast and efficient as possible, get the rewards, check their milestones, go back to whatever things they might feel like doing.
The only way to actually talk to others and "have fun" is to find some guild/clan and go out of your way to be communicative and "funny" and get accepted in whatever inner circle they might have, and run your daily crap with them and spam their discord. Overdo it and you're forever be tagged a weirdo and rarely allowed in groups.
People have changed. Gone is the youthful desire to make friends. Gone is the naiveté. Gone is the natural openness. What is left is using others to accomplish goals, mostly. Now I'm sure some will come and say how in their X private server all is like Vanilla 2014, but I've seen how it is, things are NOT even close to Vanilla WoW or even BC. People are cautious and careful who they talk to nowadays, they are reclusive, the games are just some regular stuff they do, nothing special. WoW 2014 was special. It won't return. We must deal with that.
Not sure the comparison to Destiny is an apples to apples thing.
It's a lobby-based FPS at its heart. The lobby might include a small game area in which you can visit vendors and it randomly throws on others, but that's a far cry from the open world focus on vanilla WoW (well, the levelling portions prior to raiding endgame, at least).
Audiences have changed though, I won't disagree with that. Classic WoW isn't really being made for the new audiences, though, from all intents and purposes shared by Blizzard.
The only thing I see it works , is if they add the current "pre-made groups" tab. List your dungeon , invite people, then walk to the entrance.
If you put me to sit in Stormwind and shout " LF HEALER!!!!!!!!!" and then 15 mins later , you get a PM , walk to the dungeon entrance, enter, and then healer is "sry! gtg" , I will so fucking get mad.
Pre-Made Groups tab please !
Also , I agree with PvP and Raid !! About the skills balance , well .. one thing will lead to another , and .. that's not good
Reporter: What's behind Blizzard success, and how do you make your gamers happy? Blizzard Boss: Making gamers happy is not my concern, making money.. yes!
While I agree that 'those times' are indeed gone, the
comparison to Destiny is a poor one... for a start even basic communication in
Destiny is heavily restricted / has barriers to use; i.e. you can't just
quickly type 'hey, want to run X' to someone you meet in the world (which is
why the LFG sites exist in the first place).
Also, you need to remember that Vanilla WoW wasn't built around dailies,
weeklies and endless grinds (that came later); it was a journey, and you didn't need to 'get the
chores done' before reset (well, outside of raid at least) ... Loot wasn't as
heavily restricted back then either, with most dungeon drops sellable on the
AH, and a lot of quest gear and world drops that were generally 'good enough' (if not BiS for a while).
The only thing I see it works , is if they add the current "pre-made groups" tab. List your dungeon , invite people, then walk to the entrance.
If you put me to sit in Stormwind and shout " LF HEALER!!!!!!!!!" and then 15 mins later , you get a PM , walk to the dungeon entrance, enter, and then healer is "sry! gtg" , I will so fucking get mad.
Pre-Made Groups tab please !
Also , I agree with PvP and Raid !! About the skills balance , well .. one thing will lead to another , and .. that's not good
You don't have to sit in SW, there's 'lookingforgroup' or 'world' channels for that job. Also, anyone leaving group before the end will be blacklisted and after a couple of times that player will have hard times to get groups for anything.
they should launch it as it was on day 1 and go from there. although i don't have a problem with them putting in things they intended to launch with originally, like the original BG's for example.
There are new social tools within the Blizzard app that will let you connect with people easier than before. For one you can add someone to your Battle Net friends list and chat with them even when you're not in game. You can create and join social groups and chat like Discord. I don't get where people say Blizzard games are antisocial now. They're more social now than ever before. It's pretty cool.
I agree Torval. Blizzard games are not anti-social, it is people and players who have become more anti-social.
Believe it, or not. There are people, like me, WHO HATE dungeon finder or other automated group mechanics.
never mind community......the dungeon finder kills open pvp. some of the funnest pvp i ever had in wow was battling other guilds trying to fight our way to MC.
queuing and flying mounts absolutely destroyed that sort of pvp.
I don't get where people say Blizzard games are antisocial now. They're more social now than ever before. It's pretty cool.
I do. Pretty much anyone that played during WoW's heyday could tell you what's different and how the game has become more antisocial.
In the past, you were almost forced to randomly meet new people and do content with them - even as late as BC. The people you did weekly Kara badge runs with and daily heroics were a VERY precious commodity. There was no LFR or LFD to get you through stuff. There was just your realm, and that was it, a few guilds and nothing else. Now there are so many ways do do stuff fast with randoms, convenient too. You can even do the raids, even the easier Mythic encounter. You can do Arena. You can do Mythic dungeons, keystones too, as high as you can go.
And then, after the activity is over, people take their loot and leave. In the past, you added all of these dudes and they were your online family just a few weeks later. Now, it's do stuff, say bbye and ty for the run, rinse&repeat.
You might see this as "social", but the old guys that made friends in Vanilla/BC cause they had to will know how to tell the difference. "Friendship" no longer has value nowadays. I have tons of unknowns I added on Bnet just so I can play with them. I am not contacting any, they are just filling the list. When I do stuff next week, other people take their place. That's as asocial as it gets, and it's how things function in WoW and other Bnet games.
The only thing I see it works , is if they add the current "pre-made groups" tab. List your dungeon , invite people, then walk to the entrance.
If you put me to sit in Stormwind and shout " LF HEALER!!!!!!!!!" and then 15 mins later , you get a PM , walk to the dungeon entrance, enter, and then healer is "sry! gtg" , I will so fucking get mad.
Pre-Made Groups tab please !
Also , I agree with PvP and Raid !! About the skills balance , well .. one thing will lead to another , and .. that's not good
You don't have to sit in SW, there's 'lookingforgroup' or 'world' channels for that job. Also, anyone leaving group before the end will be blacklisted and after a couple of times that player will have hard times to get groups for anything.
You just can't be a dick in classic.
I know where you come from, but I still stand. No shitty "channels" , to spam for good minutes to make a group. The current Pre-Made Groups tab , acts the same as you said, without the every minute spam.
Remember that most of WoW Classic players , will be the old players , and by old I also mean "we are older then we were 13 years ago" , and we don't currently have that much of a time to do the things we did back in the days.
Keep WoW Classic the same, yes, but as the OP said, some QoL are very welcome in today's .. perception of MMO's.
Reporter: What's behind Blizzard success, and how do you make your gamers happy? Blizzard Boss: Making gamers happy is not my concern, making money.. yes!
its funny, how people transfigure the past. Vanilla WoW wasnt that nice at the beginning, if they launch the classic server without essential changes, people will quit fast, even those who think they know how Vanilla WoW was.
Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
whens this supposed to be out. could be on mobile hehehe jk
IMPORTANT: Please keep all replies to my posts about GAMING. Please no negative or backhanded comments directed at me personally. If you are going to post a reply that includes how you feel about me, please don't bother replying & just ignore my post instead. I'm on this forum to talk about GAMING. Thank you.
Comments
LFG is garbage that should be left out.
Your server reputation mattered before blizzard added QoL improvements.
I have not played the last 3 expansions of WoW. I will be repurchasing the game IF they announce no cross server no LFG.
There was a mod that was sort of a group finder, but being a mod it didn't get very wide spread use... as for the FFXIV style Party Finder, it's almost as bad as a straight up instant dungeon finder; i.e. people click a UI to join, maybe say 'hello', party is queued and everyone teleports in, first wipe (or even non-speed kill) and it's 'you all suck', party disbands, repeat...
An LFG flag could work, but I think I'd still prefer Vanilla the way it was, worts and all, with any 'improvements' made after launch.
Oh, the 1 positive about no group finder would be people might actually stay to do a 2nd dungeon run lol.
He says he liked Vanilla pvp but the looking for a group tool killed most world pvp overnight on the majority of servers when it was introduced ( sometime after the Lich King expansion I think )
Not all of us want to grind dungeon after dungeon or raid after raid with people from other servers who we will never get to socialize again once that dungeon is finished. Some of us like to see people questing in the open world (something that the looking for a group tool has quite a limiting effect on ) and team up with players and hopefully make a few friends . Some of us liked the community that built up on WoW servers in those early years which is something the current game lacks now
In fact you know what I hope if these are successful Blizzard start looking to offer the pristine servers that they were talking about a while back which were essentially offering the new content but with features very similar to Vanilla WoW so we can play the new content without all the "quality of life " tools and changes designed to stream line the game but had the effect of sucking the life out of it for many of one time players like myself .
Thankfully Blizzard seem to realize Vanilla means Vanilla and not the Vanilla lite .
Leave the vanilla server to those that want to play by that rule set.
This and this alone will determine if some if not many come back, me included. I grew tired in Wrath of the way the skill traits were going from a tree to now getting a skill every 15 levels. They said they wanted diversity? it only made more people exactly the same. You no longer had to think about what you were choosing when picking traits when trying to get to a specific skill anymore.
What they really meant to say was "We want to get more people to subscribe so we will make it a no brainer to what can be done so that facerolling will be come the norm." Otherwise, make it as simple as possible so that people no longer have to think and will just play and keep paying to do so.
No way in hell I would go back to that slog.
A lack of LFG in itself won't bring back the great feeling we had back then. Yes, yes, those times are GONE, we really need to deal with this thing and learn to put what was in the past. How do I know it? Because i play other games that don't have LFG and you aren't making connections like you used to in WoW. Take Destiny 2 for example. You need a real group for the raid, no LFR. The "Heroic" Nightfall difficulty and the "Mythic" Prestige for dungeons also require you to go out of your way to find people, and there are LFG sites for it. You think people talk? Nope. You think you will meet the guy you did your weekly runs with again? Most probably not. People just want it done as fast and efficient as possible, get the rewards, check their milestones, go back to whatever things they might feel like doing.
The only way to actually talk to others and "have fun" is to find some guild/clan and go out of your way to be communicative and "funny" and get accepted in whatever inner circle they might have, and run your daily crap with them and spam their discord. Overdo it and you're forever be tagged a weirdo and rarely allowed in groups.
People have changed. Gone is the youthful desire to make friends. Gone is the naiveté. Gone is the natural openness. What is left is using others to accomplish goals, mostly. Now I'm sure some will come and say how in their X private server all is like Vanilla 2014, but I've seen how it is, things are NOT even close to Vanilla WoW or even BC. People are cautious and careful who they talk to nowadays, they are reclusive, the games are just some regular stuff they do, nothing special. WoW 2014 was special. It won't return. We must deal with that.
Its simple...you don't like it don't worry about it. Find something you like. Leave those that like Vanilla WoW as it was to their thing.
Too many these days just want to piss on everyone's parade.
It's a lobby-based FPS at its heart. The lobby might include a small game area in which you can visit vendors and it randomly throws on others, but that's a far cry from the open world focus on vanilla WoW (well, the levelling portions prior to raiding endgame, at least).
Audiences have changed though, I won't disagree with that. Classic WoW isn't really being made for the new audiences, though, from all intents and purposes shared by Blizzard.
1. Guild
2. Friend list
3. LFM in chat
The real test for them with classic is to not "spook the chickens" cause the slightest whiff of modern WoW will scare "The Purists-DMKano" away.
The only thing I see it works , is if they add the current "pre-made groups" tab. List your dungeon , invite people, then walk to the entrance.
If you put me to sit in Stormwind and shout " LF HEALER!!!!!!!!!" and then 15 mins later , you get a PM , walk to the dungeon entrance, enter, and then healer is "sry! gtg" , I will so fucking get mad.
Pre-Made Groups tab please !
Also , I agree with PvP and Raid !! About the skills balance , well .. one thing will lead to another , and .. that's not good
Reporter: What's behind Blizzard success, and how do you make your gamers happy?
Blizzard Boss: Making gamers happy is not my concern, making money.. yes!
While I agree that 'those times' are indeed gone, the comparison to Destiny is a poor one... for a start even basic communication in Destiny is heavily restricted / has barriers to use; i.e. you can't just quickly type 'hey, want to run X' to someone you meet in the world (which is why the LFG sites exist in the first place).
Also, you need to remember that Vanilla WoW wasn't built around dailies, weeklies and endless grinds (that came later); it was a journey, and you didn't need to 'get the chores done' before reset (well, outside of raid at least) ... Loot wasn't as heavily restricted back then either, with most dungeon drops sellable on the AH, and a lot of quest gear and world drops that were generally 'good enough' (if not BiS for a while).
You just can't be a dick in classic.
I agree Torval. Blizzard games are not anti-social, it is people and players who have become more anti-social.
queuing and flying mounts absolutely destroyed that sort of pvp.
I do. Pretty much anyone that played during WoW's heyday could tell you what's different and how the game has become more antisocial.
In the past, you were almost forced to randomly meet new people and do content with them - even as late as BC. The people you did weekly Kara badge runs with and daily heroics were a VERY precious commodity. There was no LFR or LFD to get you through stuff. There was just your realm, and that was it, a few guilds and nothing else. Now there are so many ways do do stuff fast with randoms, convenient too. You can even do the raids, even the easier Mythic encounter. You can do Arena. You can do Mythic dungeons, keystones too, as high as you can go.
And then, after the activity is over, people take their loot and leave. In the past, you added all of these dudes and they were your online family just a few weeks later. Now, it's do stuff, say bbye and ty for the run, rinse&repeat.
You might see this as "social", but the old guys that made friends in Vanilla/BC cause they had to will know how to tell the difference. "Friendship" no longer has value nowadays. I have tons of unknowns I added on Bnet just so I can play with them. I am not contacting any, they are just filling the list. When I do stuff next week, other people take their place. That's as asocial as it gets, and it's how things function in WoW and other Bnet games.
Remember that most of WoW Classic players , will be the old players , and by old I also mean "we are older then we were 13 years ago" , and we don't currently have that much of a time to do the things we did back in the days.
Keep WoW Classic the same, yes, but as the OP said, some QoL are very welcome in today's .. perception of MMO's.
Reporter: What's behind Blizzard success, and how do you make your gamers happy?
Blizzard Boss: Making gamers happy is not my concern, making money.. yes!
- Albert Einstein