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UPDATE: Belgian Minister Wants EU Ban on Loot Boxes, Speaks Before Committee Ruling

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  • TorvalTorval Member LegendaryPosts: 17,665
    Maybe regulatory agencies can look into other aspects of the gaming industry. The door is open. Imagine the regulatory possibilities within the industry.
    GdemamiSBFordAvarix
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    ...silent protagonist, Interloper, Traveller, Anomaly...


  • Tiamat64Tiamat64 Member RarePosts: 1,404
    edited November 2017
    Gdemami said:
    To be honest I don't think we've even hit the height of being vocally against it yet. This is a bandwagon now and the next company that attempts a similar thing will cause a similar or worse uproar in the community.
    Dunno....given how wide spread and successfull lootboxes are, I doubt there is truly that many people against it...
    Loot boxes are primarily purchased by whales and are created to appeal to the whale market (which is to be expected, as the term "whale" already existed for casinos and again, loot boxes and casinos are exploiting the same human psychosis)

    It is also well known from multiple developer statements that whales only consist of 5% of the consumer population (or rather, that 95% of the revenues are provided by 5% of the player base)

    Thus, it can be extrapolated that the "wide spread success" of loot boxes that you mentioned are generally supported by only 5% of the consumer base at best (and even then, as a whale myself who often parties up and guilds up with other whales because we like to travel in pods for the sake of whale power, I can say from personal experience that many whales hate loot boxes.  They just buy them anyways cause there isn't any alternative to getting what's inside those loot boxes in many cases).

    Of course, it is highly unlikely that ALL of the remaining 95% of the player base are "against" loot boxes.  But it only takes a small portion of that 95% to be greater than the puny 5% of the population that whales consist of.

    For the most part, given how vocal most people are against loot boxes (including even most whales that I know of and met), I imagine there's a lot more than just a small portion that are against loot boxes, too.

    In the end, the "wide spread success" of loot boxes is only because of greedy companies exploiting a small minority, of which the majority of that minority doesn't like loot boxes either anyways and just buy them because there's no other option.  The only difference between them and casinos is that casinos have laws to regulate that type of psycological exploitation (in large part BECAUSE it's a psychological exploitation), which those greedy immoral companies are knowingly (again, they KNOW they're appealing to the same addiction as gambling.  I've seen ex-developers talk about it quite a few times) circumventing.
    Post edited by Tiamat64 on
    perco
  • GdemamiGdemami Member EpicPosts: 11,027
    Tiamat64 said:
    95% of the revenues are provided by 5% of the player base
    ...source?
  • AlbatroesAlbatroes Member EpicPosts: 5,072
    Finally! Something better than Belgium waffles! Jokes aside, this is a great day for gaming and can at least curb this lootbox epidemic plaguing gaming. Now if this goes global, at least there will be some hope for just making them cosmetic only at best.
  • TheDarkrayneTheDarkrayne Member RarePosts: 3,920

    Gdemami said:



    To be honest I don't think we've even hit the height of being vocally against it yet. This is a bandwagon now and the next company that attempts a similar thing will cause a similar or worse uproar in the community.


    Dunno....given how wide spread and successfull lootboxes are, I doubt there is truly that many people against it...



    You think the fear of that happening is enough to make producers think twice before implementing it? Even if nothing legal comes out of all this? I mean a 3.5% drop in stock value doesn't seem like a lot but for someone as big as EA that's at least tens of millions, maybe hundreds (I don't know the exact figures). It may drop again depending on what happens when they enable microtransacitons again.
    I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.
  • Tiamat64Tiamat64 Member RarePosts: 1,404
    edited November 2017
    Gdemami said:
    Tiamat64 said:
    95% of the revenues are provided by 5% of the player base
    ...source?
    http://www.adweek.com/digital/infographic-whales-account-for-70-of-in-app-purchase-revenue/#/

    https://www.forbes.com/forbes/welcome/?toURL=https://www.forbes.com/sites/insertcoin/2014/03/01/why-its-scary-when-0-15-mobile-gamers-bring-in-50-of-the-revenue/&refURL=https://www.google.com/&referrer=https://www.google.com/

    https://deltadna.com/blog/how-whales-spend/

    https://www.wired.com/2012/11/meet-the-whales/

    https://www.recode.net/2014/2/26/11623998/a-long-tail-of-whales-half-of-mobile-games-money-comes-from-0-15

    I should note that most of these articles use parts lower on the bell curve.  "Whales with the top 10 percent of an app’s spenders being responsible for 70 percent of its revenue from in-app purchases", starts to reach "5% of the players provide 95%" of the revenue (which then actually becomes "1% of the players provide 99% of the revenue", though that last one I've only seen in chats with developers if my memory is correct).  I'm not sure if there are any articles online that go so far as to break it down to the final 5%, though I could have sworn I found several in the past (the ones I linked to were via a quick google search on "free to play whales" I just did right now, and there were a LOT more articles on the subject with similar figures but I just quickly grabbed the top ones).  I'm sure I saw that 95% one in chat rooms from developers several times though.

    Not that it really matters if we're doing real genuine debating instead of stupid troll internet arguing here.  Even "10% of the players provide 70% of the revenue" without extrapolating further than that is more than enough to prove my point without any need to nitpick about the details..
    Post edited by Tiamat64 on
    infomatz
  • starstorm777starstorm777 Member UncommonPosts: 96
    So does this mean those stupid special loot boxes are gonna be gone from ESO? And the Aura Kingdom boxes along with Drakensang and games like the new Guardians of Ember Loot Orbs give u "chances" of getting that rare item (be-it extremely low), are they gonna ban those too? because it makes players wanna keep buying them to get that "rare" item they are never gonna get...it's a rip-off and the companies know it.
  • TheDarkrayneTheDarkrayne Member RarePosts: 3,920
    edited November 2017


    So does this mean those stupid special loot boxes are gonna be gone from ESO? And the Aura Kingdom boxes along with Drakensang and games like the new Guardians of Ember Loot Orbs give u "chances" of getting that rare item (be-it extremely low), are they gonna ban those too? because it makes players wanna keep buying them to get that "rare" item they are never gonna get...it's a rip-off and the companies know it.



    I hope so. The only cool mounts in ESO are in those boxes and you can't earn them through gameplay... unless there's some kind of special and rare event.
    Post edited by TheDarkrayne on
    starstorm777Alomar
    I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.
  • ScotchUpScotchUp Member UncommonPosts: 228
    MaxBacon said:
    btdt said:
    Our tax dollars at work... legislation to ban loot boxes in video games passes while legislation on gun control sits in a filibuster for all eternity.

    Laugh at that... 
    You can't even do that argument, the guns is a game of a huge influence, divided public opinion, and fall under the constitution factor.
    I was going to just say NRA, but let's go with yours.
    “The reason I talk to myself is because I’m the only one whose answers I accept.”
    George Carlin
  • Tiamat64Tiamat64 Member RarePosts: 1,404
    So does this mean those stupid special loot boxes are gonna be gone from ESO? And the Aura Kingdom boxes along with Drakensang and games like the new Guardians of Ember Loot Orbs give u "chances" of getting that rare item (be-it extremely low), are they gonna ban those too? because it makes players wanna keep buying them to get that "rare" item they are never gonna get...it's a rip-off and the companies know it.
    That is why the vast majority in the thread are happy for this direction, yes.  It's exploitive and greedy and overall done just for the sake of the money with nothing to do with making the game actually good.
    starstorm777
  • BruceYeeBruceYee Member RarePosts: 1,389
    EA's greed killed lootboxes for everyone rofl. How many years have lootboxes been a thing but EA pushed the limit and now everyone has to pay.

    EA did something good for once.
    PinoXAlomarinfomatzCoolitTuor7Azaron_Nightblade
  • Tiamat64Tiamat64 Member RarePosts: 1,404
    BruceYee said:
    EA's greed killed lootboxes for everyone rofl. How many years have lootboxes been a thing but EA pushed the limit and now everyone has to pay.

    EA did something good for once.
    Yea, gambling addiction abusing loot boxes + Disney Star Wars mainstream publicity?  Hey, if that's what it took, that's fine as long as it finally gets the ball rolling.
    BruceYee
  • starstorm777starstorm777 Member UncommonPosts: 96
    Good. FINALLY. :) If I want a pretty white tiger mount from the item mall I should be able to buy it, not get a CHANCE to buy it, that YES is unfair, and can cause people to go crazy tryna keep spending.
  • MaxBaconMaxBacon Member EpicPosts: 6,362
    ScotchUp said:
    MaxBacon said:
    btdt said:
    Our tax dollars at work... legislation to ban loot boxes in video games passes while legislation on gun control sits in a filibuster for all eternity.

    Laugh at that... 
    You can't even do that argument, the guns is a game of a huge influence, divided public opinion, and fall under the constitution factor.
    I was going to just say NRA, but let's go with yours.
    Yeah but even without the politics of it, the public opinion is still divided. Hardly something happens when that is the situation.
  • AnnwynAnnwyn Member UncommonPosts: 2,814
    Oh, EA. Not only do you screw over other studios you absorb, you somehow manage to screw over an entire industry in the process. This is why I don't purchase EA titles anymore, I don't support what they do at all so I've been staying away from them and their games.

    I get people complaining about Lootboxes, I actually agree for the most part. That said, I don't think Overwatch's Lootbox system should be grouped with the others. It's one of the only form of lootboxes that I'm actually in favor of, since it ONLY contains cosmetics, they're easy to earn and if you don't get the skin you want immediately, you can use the in-game credits you earn from duplicates to purchase them.
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  • gervaise1gervaise1 Member EpicPosts: 5,033
    edited November 2017
    What has been decided is that loot boxes are a form of gambling.

    Gambling, in and of itself, is not banned in e.g. Belgium; it is controlled by e.g. age restrictions, taxation and so forth.

    So this ruling does not - automatically - mean that loot boxes will be banned. Maybe measures to mitigate "addiction" and the resulting damage that that can cause (to individuals and society) are likely to follow.

    Any measures will be considered carefully - since controls and limitations can also "harm" a free society - however as there are already regulations surrounding other gambling activities it is likely that these will be used as a template. For example: insisting that companies clearly indicate what the odds are; displaying a clear warning about the dangers of gambling; age restriction warnings on games that have them; ensuring an off switch is available via parental controls; limiting the number of loot boxes that can be opened per hour and so on. Oh mustn't forget: taxation.

    Now a company may decide its not worth the hassle, may decide that sales might suffer etc. but whether they will be banned remains to be seen.
    Post edited by gervaise1 on
    acidblood
  • GdemamiGdemami Member EpicPosts: 11,027
    edited November 2017
    You think the fear of that happening is enough to make producers think twice before implementing it? 
    Why would they? It works.

    If anything, they will be smarter about it but highly unlikely give up on it or somewhat back off from the model.

    Stock prices naturally fluctuates in response to fundamentals(release of new products, legislation changes, etc.) that usualy do not shift trends tho.

    I think recent events just fuel wishful thinking of people with dislike for lootboxes/mt or w/e instead of actually objectively inspecting the situation. Time will tell, I guess.
    Post edited by Gdemami on
  • laseritlaserit Member EpicPosts: 5,590
    btdt said:
    MaxBacon said:
    It's good news, loot boxes unregulated extravaganza is going to end.

    I posted in the other thread, there's also news in the US side against loot boxes:


    Who would have imagined, politicians and gamers on the same page. Expect Gdemami cause reasons.

    Our tax dollars at work... legislation to ban loot boxes in video games passes while legislation on gun control sits in a filibuster for all eternity.

    Laugh at that... 


    Look at the bright side

    You will be able to bring trophy elephant heads back into the country soon. 

    It's all about priorities

    "Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee

  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 11,588
    So does this mean those stupid special loot boxes are gonna be gone from ESO? And the Aura Kingdom boxes along with Drakensang and games like the new Guardians of Ember Loot Orbs give u "chances" of getting that rare item (be-it extremely low), are they gonna ban those too? because it makes players wanna keep buying them to get that "rare" item they are never gonna get...it's a rip-off and the companies know it.
    Hard to say where this all ends-up and what different companies will do preemptively if anything. Most will probably just wait and do nothing other than lobby like an SOB. 

    Robert Trump is on the Zenimax board of directors by the way :)
    Alomar
    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
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  • GdemamiGdemami Member EpicPosts: 11,027
    Tiamat64 said:
    http://www.adweek.com/digital/infographic-whales-account-for-70-of-in-app-purchase-revenue/#/

    https://www.forbes.com/forbes/welcome/?toURL=https://www.forbes.com/sites/insertcoin/2014/03/01/why-its-scary-when-0-15-mobile-gamers-bring-in-50-of-the-revenue/&refURL=https://www.google.com/&referrer=https://www.google.com/

    https://deltadna.com/blog/how-whales-spend/

    https://www.wired.com/2012/11/meet-the-whales/

    https://www.recode.net/2014/2/26/11623998/a-long-tail-of-whales-half-of-mobile-games-money-comes-from-0-15

    I should note that most of these articles use parts lower on the bell curve.  "Whales with the top 10 percent of an app’s spenders being responsible for 70 percent of its revenue from in-app purchases", starts to reach "5% of the players provide 95%" of the revenue (which then actually becomes "1% of the players provide 99% of the revenue", though that last one I've only seen in chats with developers if my memory is correct).  I'm not sure if there are any articles online that go so far as to break it down to the final 5%, though I could have sworn I found several in the past (the ones I linked to were via a quick google search on "free to play whales" I just did right now, and there were a LOT more articles on the subject with similar figures but I just quickly grabbed the top ones).  I'm sure I saw that 95% one in chat rooms from developers several times though.

    Not that it really matters if we're doing real genuine debating instead of stupid troll internet arguing here.  Even "10% of the players provide 70% of the revenue" without extrapolating further than that is more than enough to prove my point without any need to nitpick about the details..
    Mobile gaming is entirely different market...
  • starstorm777starstorm777 Member UncommonPosts: 96
    laserit said:
    btdt said:
    MaxBacon said:
    It's good news, loot boxes unregulated extravaganza is going to end.

    I posted in the other thread, there's also news in the US side against loot boxes:


    Who would have imagined, politicians and gamers on the same page. Expect Gdemami cause reasons.

    Our tax dollars at work... legislation to ban loot boxes in video games passes while legislation on gun control sits in a filibuster for all eternity.

    Laugh at that... 


    Look at the bright side

    You will be able to bring trophy elephant heads back into the country soon. 

    It's all about priorities
    I look sadly for the *sad* button to click like on Facebook, hence there is none...oh the sadness....
    laserit
  • Tiamat64Tiamat64 Member RarePosts: 1,404
    edited November 2017
    Yea, it'll be a while but at least a start's a start.
    Post edited by Tiamat64 on
  • GdemamiGdemami Member EpicPosts: 11,027
    Tiamat64 said:
    Go re-read my original post.
    What for? It was refuted.
  • Tiamat64Tiamat64 Member RarePosts: 1,404
    edited November 2017
    Gdemami said:
    Tiamat64 said:
    Go re-read my original post.
    What for? It was refuted.
    Alas, I see you've decided to take the latter route.  Well, I'm not going to stoop to that level so good day to you, sir.
    Post edited by Tiamat64 on
    Gdemami
  • RenoakuRenoaku Member RarePosts: 2,881
    edited November 2017
    Great news maybe they will be forced to change them now at least for Europe hopefully U.S adopts this soon too.

    I don't mind RNG box a lot but when you have to spend $200+ and don't even get the item ur looking for yeah theres a problem.

    ESO, Overwatch, Smite are examples of games that do this. Edit: I would rather spend $37 on a costume in black desert I know I am going to get than spend $200 on RNG Boxes and get nothing I want.
    Post edited by Renoaku on
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