It's the $RNG$ I have the problem with. If the item is 4sale I have no problem, not even with the price.
When you buy a concert ticket you not buying a chance to see band A, B or C
Yes it's monetized RNG that is a problem.
And while profitable it's really one bad direction for gaming, one thing is going to a cash shop and buying a certain item, another thing is having to spend a lot of money to get a chance to get that item. That is cashing out on the gamble factor, it's the same hook a casino uses.
All the items you get from a loot box are "legally" worth the money you spent so you **haven't** lost any money?
You purchase a loot box at $5.
Anything that is in the loot box has precisely same cost $5. Not all items in the loot box will have same value.
Therefore no gambling.
Economics 101 teaches me that pixel pants ain't worth jack shit.
At least I can wipe my ass with the lottery ticket.
This is always a ridiculous argument.
Pixels? really? What about the music you listen to? That's sound waves. Or a concert? You aren't really taking much home other than the experience. Maybe a shirt if you splurge.
I streamed several movies last night. Paid for them. They were pixels.
Anything that gives someone some sort of experience can be considered something that is worth money.
So pixel pants are worth what someone is willing to pay for them or at least pay for the chance to get them.
Nobody can take my music away.
Just to add Sovrath
It's the $RNG$ I have the problem with. If the item is 4sale I have no problem, not even with the price.
When you buy a concert ticket you not buying a chance to see band A, B or C
Oh I agree. But, people do buy into raffles to get a number of things. Normally the raffle is to raise money for some cause, not to line a company's pockets.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
All the items you get from a loot box are "legally" worth the money you spent so you **haven't** lost any money?
You purchase a loot box at $5.
Anything that is in the loot box has precisely same cost $5. Not all items in the loot box will have same value.
Therefore no gambling.
Economics 101 teaches me that pixel pants ain't worth jack shit.
At least I can wipe my ass with the lottery ticket.
This is always a ridiculous argument.
Pixels? really? What about the music you listen to? That's sound waves. Or a concert? You aren't really taking much home other than the experience. Maybe a shirt if you splurge.
I streamed several movies last night. Paid for them. They were pixels.
Anything that gives someone some sort of experience can be considered something that is worth money.
So pixel pants are worth what someone is willing to pay for them or at least pay for the chance to get them.
Nobody can take my music away.
Just to add Sovrath
It's the $RNG$ I have the problem with. If the item is 4sale I have no problem, not even with the price.
When you buy a concert ticket you not buying a chance to see band A, B or C
Oh I agree. But, people do buy into raffles to get a number of things. Normally the raffle is to raise money for some cause, not to line a company's pockets.
That still ignores the very real issue that those raffles are generally for goods that the person then completely owns. That's not the case for digital assets contained within a game. The value of the items to be won isn't completely and arbitrarily determined by the folks selling the chances to win said item.
You can rip semantics apart. It doesn't matter if you like this game or not. It doesn't matter if it is gambling or not. May I remind you again, it takes ~4500 hours or ~$2100 to unlock everything in this game. That is fucking ridiculous.
Constantine, The Console Poster
"One of the most difficult tasks men can perform, however much others may despise it, is the invention of good games and it cannot be done by men out of touch with their instinctive selves." - Carl Jung
All the items you get from a loot box are "legally" worth the money you spent so you **haven't** lost any money?
You purchase a loot box at $5.
Anything that is in the loot box has precisely same cost $5. Not all items in the loot box will have same value.
Therefore no gambling.
Economics 101 teaches me that pixel pants ain't worth jack shit.
At least I can wipe my ass with the lottery ticket.
This is always a ridiculous argument.
Pixels? really? What about the music you listen to? That's sound waves. Or a concert? You aren't really taking much home other than the experience. Maybe a shirt if you splurge.
I streamed several movies last night. Paid for them. They were pixels.
Anything that gives someone some sort of experience can be considered something that is worth money.
So pixel pants are worth what someone is willing to pay for them or at least pay for the chance to get them.
Nobody can take my music away.
Just to add Sovrath
It's the $RNG$ I have the problem with. If the item is 4sale I have no problem, not even with the price.
When you buy a concert ticket you not buying a chance to see band A, B or C
Oh I agree. But, people do buy into raffles to get a number of things. Normally the raffle is to raise money for some cause, not to line a company's pockets.
well....
Can I hold a legal for profit raffle whenever I please?
I would just say it's about time, perhaps this will be the first steps that will start to regulate the unregulated gambling extravaganza that we know as Loot Boxes.
You can see that EA already came in defensive saying their loot crates are not gambling, Blizzard still to comment on it. I hope this goes forward because only legal regulations can defeat the paid RNG monetization trend.
[mod edit] they are not considered gambling in America [mod edit]. All they are doing is a review and that could simply mean they say: "yes, only a fool would call it gambling". [mod edit]
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what
it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience
because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in
the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you
playing an MMORPG?"
I would just say it's about time, perhaps this will be the first steps that will start to regulate the unregulated gambling extravaganza that we know as Loot Boxes.
You can see that EA already came in defensive saying their loot crates are not gambling, Blizzard still to comment on it. I hope this goes forward because only legal regulations can defeat the paid RNG monetization trend.
Hey PIG. they are not considered gambling in America so stuff it. All they are doing is a review and that could simply mean they say: "yes, only a fool would call it gambling". So stop your hissy fit.
Wow .. a little harsh, i think someone has personal issues with the poster not the post contents.
waynejr2 said: Hey PIG. they are not considered gambling in America so stuff it. All they are doing is a review and that could simply mean they say: "yes, only a fool would call it gambling". So stop your hissy fit.
Go on a full rampage. Is it because of me or do you really love spending money in loot boxes? O_o
I still defend the regulation of monetized RNG as loot boxes in games either way that goes.
I would just say it's about time, perhaps this will be the first steps that will start to regulate the unregulated gambling extravaganza that we know as Loot Boxes.
You can see that EA already came in defensive saying their loot crates are not gambling, Blizzard still to comment on it. I hope this goes forward because only legal regulations can defeat the paid RNG monetization trend.
Hey PIG. they are not considered gambling in America so stuff it. All they are doing is a review and that could simply mean they say: "yes, only a fool would call it gambling". So stop your hissy fit.
So what are the odds of getting that one item you wanted from the Loot box? Sorry that is gambling....The only way to get that said item is through the loot box.You cant buy that certain item you wanted from the store. Ever wonder why car dealers dont give away "free" item anymore? LOL
I would just say it's about time, perhaps this will be the first steps that will start to regulate the unregulated gambling extravaganza that we know as Loot Boxes.
You can see that EA already came in defensive saying their loot crates are not gambling, Blizzard still to comment on it. I hope this goes forward because only legal regulations can defeat the paid RNG monetization trend.
Hey PIG. they are not considered gambling in America so stuff it. All they are doing is a review and that could simply mean they say: "yes, only a fool would call it gambling". So stop your hissy fit.
So what are the odds of getting that one item you wanted from the Loot box? Sorry that is gambling....The only way to get that said item is through the loot box.You cant buy that certain item you wanted from the store. Ever wonder why car dealers dont give away "free" item anymore? LOL
Hope more country jump in and stop the practice. If enough country put out regulation for it, game company will find it disturbing enough they don't bother with it. I think the difference maker is US stands on it.
Hope more country jump in and stop the practice. If enough country put out regulation for it, game company will find it disturbing enough they don't bother with it. I think the difference maker is US stands on it.
China and the EU would be the killers. China spends more than 4 times more than the US on gaming. The EU countries combined spend at least more than twice what the US spends.
I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.
I would just say it's about time, perhaps this will be the first steps that will start to regulate the unregulated gambling extravaganza that we know as Loot Boxes.
You can see that EA already came in defensive saying their loot crates are not gambling, Blizzard still to comment on it. I hope this goes forward because only legal regulations can defeat the paid RNG monetization trend.
Hey PIG. they are not considered gambling in America so stuff it. All they are doing is a review and that could simply mean they say: "yes, only a fool would call it gambling". So stop your hissy fit.
I'd say in this case the law doesn't matter. Its the perception of said practice that will galvanize consumers. The backlash over BF2 and EA being forced by Disney to shutter and probably completely redesign their monetization system to avoid any more bad press is a prime example.
There should be legal regulations on it. If not that, then these gaming companies need to be taxed the shit out of like any other Casino. That is all these games are now, giant Casino's.
Taxed out, means they increases their prices to maintain their level of earnings. So we are charged double in the end.
You can rip semantics apart. It doesn't matter if you like this game or not. It doesn't matter if it is gambling or not. May I remind you again, it takes ~4500 hours or ~$2100 to unlock everything in this game. That is fucking ridiculous.
The problem I'm having is people claiming it's gambling just to try and force their agenda of removing ALL micro transactions/loot boxes from gaming.
That is ridiculous what you quoted.
However IMO the reason we are seeing companies trying to gate content behind money is because the MMO community have been ok with for some time.
When you purchased Everquest or any of the first generation MMO's you had a free arbitrary length of time to play (A month usually, it's easy to monetise it that way) then they stopped you from playing. If you wanted to carry on playing the game you purchased you had to pay a fee.
So you've got a group of gamers who supported additional charges for a game you've already purchased.
Where did you honestly think that was heading?
If it's ok for one computer game to remove content or even the entire game behind additional charges, why can't others?
ConstantineMerus said: May I remind you again, it takes ~4500 hours or ~$2100 to unlock everything in this game. That is fucking ridiculous.
Just to be on the same page, what part about it is 'fucking ridiculous'?
1) That there are people willing to devote more spare time than you?
2) That there are people willing to devote more money than you?
3) That there is a chance you might be able to unlock everything? 4) That there is someone else the company decided to cater to? 5) That there is just someone with different opinion and perception than you? 6) That there is someone doing something without your consent?
The only ridiculous is how people do not hesitate to strip themselves off their rights....typical mob mentality...
All games that have RNG, should be required to list on the box that its sold in a gambling addiction warning, I know a lot of companies use the legal loop-hole, and things like "GACHA" or "RNG" or even "Game OF Skill" to avoid gambling laws but someone needs to at least have warnings on it for those who are gambling addicts.
I would just say it's about time, perhaps this will be the first steps that will start to regulate the unregulated gambling extravaganza that we know as Loot Boxes.
You can see that EA already came in defensive saying their loot crates are not gambling, Blizzard still to comment on it. I hope this goes forward because only legal regulations can defeat the paid RNG monetization trend.
Hey PIG. they are not considered gambling in America so stuff it. All they are doing is a review and that could simply mean they say: "yes, only a fool would call it gambling". So stop your hissy fit.
So what are the odds of getting that one item you wanted from the Loot box? Sorry that is gambling....The only way to get that said item is through the loot box.You cant buy that certain item you wanted from the store. Ever wonder why car dealers dont give away "free" item anymore? LOL
sorry by LAW it isn't . . . . . .
Laws change and get updated. IMO law simply hasnt caught up to reality of lootboxes yet. But it will eventually.
You can rip semantics apart. It doesn't matter if you like this game or not. It doesn't matter if it is gambling or not. May I remind you again, it takes ~4500 hours or ~$2100 to unlock everything in this game. That is fucking ridiculous.
The problem I'm having is people claiming it's gambling just to try and force their agenda of removing ALL micro transactions/loot boxes from gaming.
That is ridiculous what you quoted.
However IMO the reason we are seeing companies trying to gate content behind money is because the MMO community have been ok with for some time.
When you purchased Everquest or any of the first generation MMO's you had a free arbitrary length of time to play (A month usually, it's easy to monetise it that way) then they stopped you from playing. If you wanted to carry on playing the game you purchased you had to pay a fee.
So you've got a group of gamers who supported additional charges for a game you've already purchased.
Where did you honestly think that was heading?
If it's ok for one computer game to remove content or even the entire game behind additional charges, why can't others?
First, I am sorry but charging a sub fee for an online service is not in any way heading towards RNG. This is like predicting Netflix would become RNG as well someday. We paid for online service, and we were fucking happy about it. And most people whom you see have gone bananas over this on this forum still prefer that method of payment.
Second, the price matters. $2100 or 4500 hours is not right. There's no defense here. Nothing. This is just shameful.
And hey, if you like the game, play. I don't have anything against those who want to enjoy a bit of Star Wars. Who am I to tell them how they should spend their money and time. To be honest, I have never told anyone in my entire life to not to purchase anything, unless they had asked for my advice or opinion--which I usually answer go for it!
I'm not interested in this game. And if EA came out and said hey, we're making a game which people who spend more monies pawn the people spend less money, I would've still be fine. It's the sheer amount of bullshit that is a bit annoying here. "Sense of achievement" Yeah right...!
Constantine, The Console Poster
"One of the most difficult tasks men can perform, however much others may despise it, is the invention of good games and it cannot be done by men out of touch with their instinctive selves." - Carl Jung
You can rip semantics apart. It doesn't matter if you like this game or not. It doesn't matter if it is gambling or not. May I remind you again, it takes ~4500 hours or ~$2100 to unlock everything in this game. That is fucking ridiculous.
The problem I'm having is people claiming it's gambling just to try and force their agenda of removing ALL micro transactions/loot boxes from gaming.
That is ridiculous what you quoted.
However IMO the reason we are seeing companies trying to gate content behind money is because the MMO community have been ok with for some time.
When you purchased Everquest or any of the first generation MMO's you had a free arbitrary length of time to play (A month usually, it's easy to monetise it that way) then they stopped you from playing. If you wanted to carry on playing the game you purchased you had to pay a fee.
So you've got a group of gamers who supported additional charges for a game you've already purchased.
Where did you honestly think that was heading?
If it's ok for one computer game to remove content or even the entire game behind additional charges, why can't others?
First, I am sorry but charging a sub fee for an online service is not in any way heading towards RNG. This is like predicting Netflix would become RNG as well someday. We paid for online service, and we were fucking happy about it. And most people whom you see have gone bananas over this on this forum still prefer that method of payment.
I'm not saying it's the same.
I'm saying the uproar we are seeing is because single-player games are gating content behind a pay-wall after an initial purchase fee. Whether by RNG or micro-transactions.
Or are you implying if BF2 removed the micro-transaction/RNG entirely and implemented a mandatory sub after 30 days of play/optional sub that included less grind people would be happy?
MMO's even turned their back on mandatory subscriptions and have been doing Micro-transactions/RNG for at least 7 years.
ConstantineMerus said: May I remind you again, it takes ~4500 hours or ~$2100 to unlock everything in this game. That is fucking ridiculous.
Just to be on the same page, what part about it is 'fucking ridiculous'?
1) That there are people willing to devote more spare time than you?
2) That there are people willing to devote more money than you?
3) That there is a chance you might be able to unlock everything? 4) That there is someone else the company decided to cater to? 5) That there is just someone with different opinion and perception than you? 6) That there is someone doing something without your consent?
The only ridiculous is how people do not hesitate to strip themselves off their rights....typical mob mentality...
As I said in my other post, I am not addressing the players at all, but the company. Don't play the victim card for me mate, I really don't give damn what people do or don't. When a company does something I do not agree with, I am free to speak my mind. I am not issuing death threats, or harassing their employees over the phone, or setting their dildo collection on fire.
Do I have to agree with everything any company does or I have a mob mentality? Where do you buy your daily dose of rationality?
Constantine, The Console Poster
"One of the most difficult tasks men can perform, however much others may despise it, is the invention of good games and it cannot be done by men out of touch with their instinctive selves." - Carl Jung
ConstantineMerus said: May I remind you again, it takes ~4500 hours or ~$2100 to unlock everything in this game. That is fucking ridiculous.
Just to be on the same page, what part about it is 'fucking ridiculous'?
1) That there are people willing to devote more spare time than you?
2) That there are people willing to devote more money than you?
3) That there is a chance you might be able to unlock everything? 4) That there is someone else the company decided to cater to? 5) That there is just someone with different opinion and perception than you? 6) That there is someone doing something without your consent?
The only ridiculous is how people do not hesitate to strip themselves off their rights....typical mob mentality...
I'll explain to you what part about this is 'fucking ridiculous'.
The part that you have to pay full price for this game only to find base-game content locked behind tedious grind or alternatively a pay wall.
ConstantineMerus said: May I remind you again, it takes ~4500 hours or ~$2100 to unlock everything in this game. That is fucking ridiculous.
Just to be on the same page, what part about it is 'fucking ridiculous'?
1) That there are people willing to devote more spare time than you?
2) That there are people willing to devote more money than you?
3) That there is a chance you might be able to unlock everything? 4) That there is someone else the company decided to cater to? 5) That there is just someone with different opinion and perception than you? 6) That there is someone doing something without your consent?
The only ridiculous is how people do not hesitate to strip themselves off their rights....typical mob mentality...
I'll explain to you what part about this is 'fucking ridiculous'.
The part that you have to pay full price for this game only to find base-game content locked behind tedious grind or alternatively a pay wall.
Well that's more of a marketing issue.
MMO's have been locking content you purchased behind a pay-wall since the late 90's.
You can rip semantics apart. It doesn't matter if you like this game or not. It doesn't matter if it is gambling or not. May I remind you again, it takes ~4500 hours or ~$2100 to unlock everything in this game. That is fucking ridiculous.
The problem I'm having is people claiming it's gambling just to try and force their agenda of removing ALL micro transactions/loot boxes from gaming.
That is ridiculous what you quoted.
However IMO the reason we are seeing companies trying to gate content behind money is because the MMO community have been ok with for some time.
When you purchased Everquest or any of the first generation MMO's you had a free arbitrary length of time to play (A month usually, it's easy to monetise it that way) then they stopped you from playing. If you wanted to carry on playing the game you purchased you had to pay a fee.
So you've got a group of gamers who supported additional charges for a game you've already purchased.
Where did you honestly think that was heading?
If it's ok for one computer game to remove content or even the entire game behind additional charges, why can't others?
First, I am sorry but charging a sub fee for an online service is not in any way heading towards RNG. This is like predicting Netflix would become RNG as well someday. We paid for online service, and we were fucking happy about it. And most people whom you see have gone bananas over this on this forum still prefer that method of payment.
I'm not saying it's the same.
I'm saying the uproar we are seeing is because single-player games are gating content behind a pay-wall after an initial purchase fee. Whether by RNG or micro-transactions.
Or are you implying if BF2 removed the micro-transaction/RNG entirely and implemented a mandatory sub after 30 days of play/optional sub that included less grind people would be happy?
MMO's even turned their back on mandatory subscriptions and have been doing Micro-transactions/RNG for at least 7 years.
Besides the monetization method, value matters. Again, I'm not criticizing micro-transactions.
Constantine, The Console Poster
"One of the most difficult tasks men can perform, however much others may despise it, is the invention of good games and it cannot be done by men out of touch with their instinctive selves." - Carl Jung
Comments
And while profitable it's really one bad direction for gaming, one thing is going to a cash shop and buying a certain item, another thing is having to spend a lot of money to get a chance to get that item. That is cashing out on the gamble factor, it's the same hook a casino uses.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Can I hold a legal for profit raffle whenever I please?
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee
[mod edit] they are not considered gambling in America [mod edit]. All they are doing is a review and that could simply mean they say: "yes, only a fool would call it gambling". [mod edit]
Epic Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1
https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
I still defend the regulation of monetized RNG as loot boxes in games either way that goes.
So what are the odds of getting that one item you wanted from the Loot box? Sorry that is gambling....The only way to get that said item is through the loot box.You cant buy that certain item you wanted from the store. Ever wonder why car dealers dont give away "free" item anymore? LOL
I retired retroactively..Haha
. . .your opinion means jack all.
Taxed out, means they increases their prices to maintain their level of earnings. So we are charged double in the end.
That is ridiculous what you quoted.
However IMO the reason we are seeing companies trying to gate content behind money is because the MMO community have been ok with for some time.
When you purchased Everquest or any of the first generation MMO's you had a free arbitrary length of time to play (A month usually, it's easy to monetise it that way) then they stopped you from playing. If you wanted to carry on playing the game you purchased you had to pay a fee.
So you've got a group of gamers who supported additional charges for a game you've already purchased.
Where did you honestly think that was heading?
If it's ok for one computer game to remove content or even the entire game behind additional charges, why can't others?
1) That there are people willing to devote more spare time than you?
2) That there are people willing to devote more money than you?
3) That there is a chance you might be able to unlock everything?
4) That there is someone else the company decided to cater to?
5) That there is just someone with different opinion and perception than you?
6) That there is someone doing something without your consent?
The only ridiculous is how people do not hesitate to strip themselves off their rights....typical mob mentality...
First, I am sorry but charging a sub fee for an online service is not in any way heading towards RNG. This is like predicting Netflix would become RNG as well someday. We paid for online service, and we were fucking happy about it. And most people whom you see have gone bananas over this on this forum still prefer that method of payment.
Second, the price matters. $2100 or 4500 hours is not right. There's no defense here. Nothing. This is just shameful.
And hey, if you like the game, play. I don't have anything against those who want to enjoy a bit of Star Wars. Who am I to tell them how they should spend their money and time. To be honest, I have never told anyone in my entire life to not to purchase anything, unless they had asked for my advice or opinion--which I usually answer go for it!
I'm not interested in this game. And if EA came out and said hey, we're making a game which people who spend more monies pawn the people spend less money, I would've still be fine. It's the sheer amount of bullshit that is a bit annoying here. "Sense of achievement" Yeah right...!
I'm saying the uproar we are seeing is because single-player games are gating content behind a pay-wall after an initial purchase fee. Whether by RNG or micro-transactions.
Or are you implying if BF2 removed the micro-transaction/RNG entirely and implemented a mandatory sub after 30 days of play/optional sub that included less grind people would be happy?
MMO's even turned their back on mandatory subscriptions and have been doing Micro-transactions/RNG for at least 7 years.
Do I have to agree with everything any company does or I have a mob mentality? Where do you buy your daily dose of rationality?
The part that you have to pay full price for this game only to find base-game content locked behind tedious grind or alternatively a pay wall.
MMO's have been locking content you purchased behind a pay-wall since the late 90's.
They were upfront about it though.
Yeah, rationality seems to be scarce these days.