DMKano just stop you are embarassing yourself, im actually laughing out loud when i read your comments...so bad.
Blizzard Activision is a publicly traded company - their motivation is seeing their stock price go up.
Its about money.
Are you that naive that you think they would waste any resources on projects that wont make them money?
lol
A publically traded billion+ dollar company is doing something to benefit a niche playerbase, because they are ..... nice?
heh
All your logic about WoW Classis in numerous threads were destroyed BADLY, you are repeating em every 2nd page, no1 ever said Blizzard is not a money hungry company, if you understood bussiness you would know that its not even in their hands any more, they did go public long long long long time ago.
I said this before, if it was up to them there would BE NO VANILLA SERVER, so now after 8years of saying NO they said YES, just to bring something that nobody wants back? sorry dude but as i said before your logic is dogbleep.
What is 100% going to happen is last Vanilla patch polished, and by that i mean they will change things that dont affect the gameplay in any way, just change the gamebrakeing things that just MAKE SENSE even for most hardcore Vanilla player. Ill give you a possible example a 30minute shield wall changed to 5 minutes?
You can keep trying to assert ur bad logic and nitpick all you want, but if you watch the announcement and read the interview like i asked you, you would have no more things to say.
You are completely not understanding - the reason why they said YES finally is because they figured out how to make Classic servers worth it their dev time and how to make money off it.
That is the ONLY reason why they are saying yes now.
My entire argument is that in order to make money of Classic - the servers won't be 100% Vanilla like you claim.
Nope - what they are going to actually DELIVER (regardless of what they are saying NOW) is going to be something a lot more appealing to masses other than purists who want 100% vanilla servers.
Did I make myself clear this time?
What board meeting did you sit in on at Blizz to get a clear understanding of what and what did not motivate Blizz execs to peruse this?
Why are you on this crusade to crap all over this? There are a lot of people who want this including me, but clearly you are threatened by this move.
I wonder why.
DMKano has a Batphone to every dev and every CEO for every game ever made, he knows it all. Didn't you know? ha ha...
DMKano just stop you are embarassing yourself, im actually laughing out loud when i read your comments...so bad.
Blizzard Activision is a publicly traded company - their motivation is seeing their stock price go up.
Its about money.
Are you that naive that you think they would waste any resources on projects that wont make them money?
lol
A publically traded billion+ dollar company is doing something to benefit a niche playerbase, because they are ..... nice?
heh
All your logic about WoW Classis in numerous threads were destroyed BADLY, you are repeating em every 2nd page, no1 ever said Blizzard is not a money hungry company, if you understood bussiness you would know that its not even in their hands any more, they did go public long long long long time ago.
I said this before, if it was up to them there would BE NO VANILLA SERVER, so now after 8years of saying NO they said YES, just to bring something that nobody wants back? sorry dude but as i said before your logic is dogbleep.
What is 100% going to happen is last Vanilla patch polished, and by that i mean they will change things that dont affect the gameplay in any way, just change the gamebrakeing things that just MAKE SENSE even for most hardcore Vanilla player. Ill give you a possible example a 30minute shield wall changed to 5 minutes?
You can keep trying to assert ur bad logic and nitpick all you want, but if you watch the announcement and read the interview like i asked you, you would have no more things to say.
You are completely not understanding - the reason why they said YES finally is because they figured out how to make Classic servers worth it their dev time and how to make money off it.
That is the ONLY reason why they are saying yes now.
My entire argument is that in order to make money of Classic - the servers won't be 100% Vanilla like you claim.
Nope - what they are going to actually DELIVER (regardless of what they are saying NOW) is going to be something a lot more appealing to masses other than purists who want 100% vanilla servers.
Did I make myself clear this time?
What board meeting did you sit in on at Blizz to get a clear understanding of what and what did not motivate Blizz execs to peruse this?
Why are you on this crusade to crap all over this? There are a lot of people who want this including me, but clearly you are threatened by this move.
I wonder why.
DMKano has a Batphone to every dev and every CEO for every game ever made, he knows it all. Didn't you know? ha ha...
DMKano just stop you are embarassing yourself, im actually laughing out loud when i read your comments...so bad.
Blizzard Activision is a publicly traded company - their motivation is seeing their stock price go up.
Its about money.
Are you that naive that you think they would waste any resources on projects that wont make them money?
lol
A publically traded billion+ dollar company is doing something to benefit a niche playerbase, because they are ..... nice?
heh
All your logic about WoW Classis in numerous threads were destroyed BADLY, you are repeating em every 2nd page, no1 ever said Blizzard is not a money hungry company, if you understood bussiness you would know that its not even in their hands any more, they did go public long long long long time ago.
I said this before, if it was up to them there would BE NO VANILLA SERVER, so now after 8years of saying NO they said YES, just to bring something that nobody wants back? sorry dude but as i said before your logic is dogbleep.
What is 100% going to happen is last Vanilla patch polished, and by that i mean they will change things that dont affect the gameplay in any way, just change the gamebrakeing things that just MAKE SENSE even for most hardcore Vanilla player. Ill give you a possible example a 30minute shield wall changed to 5 minutes?
You can keep trying to assert ur bad logic and nitpick all you want, but if you watch the announcement and read the interview like i asked you, you would have no more things to say.
You are completely not understanding - the reason why they said YES finally is because they figured out how to make Classic servers worth it their dev time and how to make money off it.
That is the ONLY reason why they are saying yes now.
My entire argument is that in order to make money of Classic - the servers won't be 100% Vanilla like you claim.
Nope - what they are going to actually DELIVER (regardless of what they are saying NOW) is going to be something a lot more appealing to masses other than purists who want 100% vanilla servers.
Did I make myself clear this time?
What board meeting did you sit in on at Blizz to get a clear understanding of what and what did not motivate Blizz execs to peruse this?
Why are you on this crusade to crap all over this? There are a lot of people who want this including me, but clearly you are threatened by this move.
I wonder why.
DMKano has a Batphone to every dev and every CEO for every game ever made, he knows it all. Didn't you know? ha ha...
I also have to admit that I can't wait for no more looms. And locks having to fight to get their pets. Oh oh and the old school talent system. Didn't they have skilling up in wow? Like you use an axe and gain axe skill etc?
Yes, you trained weaponskills. Believe it only affected to hit chance, not damage.
Still pretty important if that's the case. What I liked about systems like these was that even though they were tedious, they showed how dedicated you were to your class and it separated you from just another "class." You took time to get your skills up, know what stats are good for your class etc, so it made you more sought after by guilds and such. Old school mmorpgs weren't perfect by any means but they did teach you quite abit about patience and how to work together with others.
Leveling up weapon skills involved nothing more than going to Blasted Lands and beating on the invulnerable mobs over and over until your skill was maxed. It was basically pointless.
But you still had to do it. You couldn't just equip that beautiful new Bow that just dropped if you'd been running a rifle in the middle of your dungeon. It added an aspect to the game that IMO is better with than without.
Getting rid of things that you could show were pointless is exactly why WOW is like it is now.
Losing talent trees because people were using cookie cutter builds....... Give me the trees. So what if someone figures out the best build. It's better than not having the options.
I wasn't crazy about the zones or stories but I absolutely loved the Monk class - all 3 flavors of it.
Me too! I loved my little gnome monk. His fists of fury skill was awesome and always made me smile.
That would have been funny to see Mine were humans.
I don't even remember seeing little people as monks. Was that the way from the beginning of MoP or did they add additional races to the Monk class later?
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
I also have to admit that I can't wait for no more looms. And locks having to fight to get their pets. Oh oh and the old school talent system. Didn't they have skilling up in wow? Like you use an axe and gain axe skill etc?
Yes, you trained weaponskills. Believe it only affected to hit chance, not damage.
Still pretty important if that's the case. What I liked about systems like these was that even though they were tedious, they showed how dedicated you were to your class and it separated you from just another "class." You took time to get your skills up, know what stats are good for your class etc, so it made you more sought after by guilds and such. Old school mmorpgs weren't perfect by any means but they did teach you quite abit about patience and how to work together with others.
Leveling up weapon skills involved nothing more than going to Blasted Lands and beating on the invulnerable mobs over and over until your skill was maxed. It was basically pointless.
Losing talent trees because people were using cookie cutter builds....... Give me the trees. So what if someone figures out the best build. It's better than not having the options.
We still have options with talents, it's just that they're actually meaningful options now. Cookie cutter builds in vanilla became cookie cutter because the other talents were mostly useless. Any class that had a +5% crit for 5 points talent was always going to pick that. Remember tier 1 enhancement shaman tree, you had to pick either shield specialization or 5% more max mana, both useless for an enhancement shaman. But you had to waste 5 points to unlock the next tier. With the current talents, they're almost all useful in different situations. If you went to a restaurant, would you rather have 2 or 3 choices of good quality food, or 10 choices of yesterday's leftovers that are covered in rat droppings?
Name 5 things that will make the wotlk'ers and onwards spit their dummies out if they play classic wow when the server launches.
I'l go first
1. No lfg 2. No heirlooms 3. Running everywhere 4. Having to drink mana water 5. Having to use CC
I can think of more can you?
what are heirlooms in wow lol?
But the original wow was the best this new garbage since burning crusade has been on nothing but tilt starting with burning crusade, if they bring back the original wow as it was before burning crusade, give mages back Arcane Power, POM, Pryoblast ill think about giving it another go.
I also have to admit that I can't wait for no more looms. And locks having to fight to get their pets. Oh oh and the old school talent system. Didn't they have skilling up in wow? Like you use an axe and gain axe skill etc?
Yes, you trained weaponskills. Believe it only affected to hit chance, not damage.
Still pretty important if that's the case. What I liked about systems like these was that even though they were tedious, they showed how dedicated you were to your class and it separated you from just another "class." You took time to get your skills up, know what stats are good for your class etc, so it made you more sought after by guilds and such. Old school mmorpgs weren't perfect by any means but they did teach you quite abit about patience and how to work together with others.
Leveling up weapon skills involved nothing more than going to Blasted Lands and beating on the invulnerable mobs over and over until your skill was maxed. It was basically pointless.
Losing talent trees because people were using cookie cutter builds....... Give me the trees. So what if someone figures out the best build. It's better than not having the options.
We still have options with talents, it's just that they're actually meaningful options now. Cookie cutter builds in vanilla became cookie cutter because the other talents were mostly useless. Any class that had a +5% crit for 5 points talent was always going to pick that. Remember tier 1 enhancement shaman tree, you had to pick either shield specialization or 5% more max mana, both useless for an enhancement shaman. But you had to waste 5 points to unlock the next tier. With the current talents, they're almost all useful in different situations. If you went to a restaurant, would you rather have 2 or 3 choices of good quality food, or 10 choices of yesterday's leftovers that are covered in rat droppings?
But someone, usually the top guilds, had to figure out those builds. It took time, effort and a community to proof it. Back in TBC, I leveled my ENH to 70 and got Smithing and LW to 375 ea, simultaneously. No small task. But I was able to ding 70 with a full set of Ebon Netherscale and the Drake Hammerfist. Everything else was the Crafted iLvl 115 Blues.
Went into Kara that week and did 3rd in DPS in my raid with an Enhance. Raid leader couldn't figure it out. How?.........Because I learned the build. Not just the wrote cookie cutter talents, but what stats to stack....How slower weapon speed had a greater effect on proccing WF crits that created more DPS than straight up weapon damage (with faster speeds) There were many factors that a lot of other ENH didn't take advantage of and it allowed me to stand out more. THe days of heavy theorycrafting ended with TBC. By the time Wrath was in full raid swing. It was all about.....and only about your ilvl. GEEERSKORZ, gotta have da GEERSKORZ!
Nah, theorycrafting was intense and still is intense in WoW.
Gearscore is and should be important to top guilds or PvPers that want to push, but I agree that a high skill player can help a low gearscore do better and a low skill player can make a high gearscore do worse.
That you think theorycrafting doesn't exist anymore is pretty absurd though and just shows how disconnected you are from the game.
Nah, theorycrafting was intense and still is intense in WoW.
Gearscore is and should be important to top guilds or PvPers that want to push, but I agree that a high skill player can help a low gearscore do better and a low skill player can make a high gearscore do worse.
That you think theorycrafting doesn't exist anymore is pretty absurd though and just shows how disconnected you are from the game.
I have been disconnected for some time, But I still remember the transition from Raiding at 70 to raiding at 80 and I still have to disagree with you in that the intensity of Theorycrafting took a nosedive between TBC and Wrath, With each Xpac that I did continue to raid in, there was less and less needed. As I said, I was able to compete in TBC with a lesser build by eeking out every last bit I could from lesser gear and remained competitive with guild members in much better gear...Yes, I know what that says about them, but that was the average. You could become better than average with knowhow. Not so in Wrath. You pretty much just kept getting the next T sets, and got the DPS rotation addon that told you what to click next and BOOM! Instant raider. In fact the gear escalation got so bad in Wrath, that they had to create stop-gap measures by upgrading 5 man dungeon gear to be better than earlier raid gear within the same expansion.
Otherwise, Hunters wouldn't have been buying that Crossbow in the AH that was really bad for hunter DPS back at the end of Wrath, just so they could have the higher ilvl to qualify for the raids. Not saying Theorycrafting disappeared, but no, not the same level of importance in earlier iterations of WoW. There was a marked difference in the need to TC from TBC to Wrath.
Nah, theorycrafting was intense and still is intense in WoW.
Gearscore is and should be important to top guilds or PvPers that want to push, but I agree that a high skill player can help a low gearscore do better and a low skill player can make a high gearscore do worse.
That you think theorycrafting doesn't exist anymore is pretty absurd though and just shows how disconnected you are from the game.
I have been disconnected for some time, and I will still disagree with you in that the intensity of Theorycrafting took a nosedive between TBC and Wrath.
Otherwise, Hunters wouldn't have been buying that Crossbow in the AH that was really bad for hunter DPS back at the end of Wrath, just so they could have the higher ilvl to qualify for the raids. Not saying Theorycrafting disappeared, but no, not the same level of importance in earlier iterations of WoW. There was a marked difference in the need to TC from TBC to Wrath.
Your argument that because people bought expensive weapons on the market means that theorycrafting took a nose dive is really bad on its face. For one, I think you are conflating gearscore with theorycrafting. For another, if hunters were taking worse items to increase gearscore, that was stupid. They were not part of the elite and they didn't pay attention to theorycrafting. Can you understand how that doesn't work?
Theorycrafting and theorycrafting sites and resources such as mods and builders were more popular in Wrath than they ever were before that point. I'd even go so far to say that as time has gone on, people have become more and more dependant on theorycrafters that are good at what they do. People, in general, want to simplify the WoW experience and that's exactly what theorycrafters offer.
Look, I can tell you that there was less info to need to know between expansions, beacuse of the way WoW did gear at 80. Not saying people didn't need to figure out how to use what they had in the best possible way....but it was easier to do it in Wrath.
But when the expansion needs to add epic gear to 5 man dungeons to bridge the gap because you simply couldn't get into the latest raids where item levels in 5 mans were better than what was available earlier in expansions. Players only needed to focus on getting the next tier set and stacking their primary stats.
THe average raider didn't need to spend as much time on Elitistjerks anymore. I didn't learn nearly as much about my DK at 80 as I did about my BM Hunter and my ENH at 70. And I did respectively better.
Look, I can tell you that there was less info to need to know between expansions, beacuse of the way WoW did gear at 80. Not saying people didn't need to figure out how to use what they had in the best possible way....but it was easier to do it in Wrath.
But when the expansion needs to add epic gear to 5 man dungeons to bridge the gap because you simply couldn't get into the latest raids where item levels in 5 mans were better than what was available earlier in expansions. Players only needed to focus on getting the next tier set and stacking their primary stats.
I agree with you about the simplification of gear. Blizzard starting deciding what was the best gear for both Raiding and PvP. They might give you a couple of options, like crit or haste, but in general, if you weren't wearing a set decided by Blizzard, you were weaker.
You and I can agree to disagree here. But my experience at 80 was much easier than at 70 and I did just as well with all my classes without needing to learn every detail. That's just my experience. I'm not that smart, I am not that skilled, I don't have super fast reflexes and I used macros and Addons to the fullest effect I could in both levels.
I mean, I think the game was way harder in both Vanilla and TBC. I think Wrath was a watershed moment for the game where its design changed the most drastically and they followed down the Wrath path ever since. Whether or not this is good or bad is opinion, but I agree that Wrath felt WAY easier than TBC.
I mean, I think the game was way harder in both Vanilla and TBC. I think Wrath was a watershed moment for the game where its design changed the most drastically and they followed down the Wrath path ever since. Whether or not this is good or bad is opinion, but I agree that Wrath felt WAY easier than TBC.
I get what you are saying. Someone still has to figure the mechanics out and optimize for them. but at the same time I also don't think that the individual player could turn that knowledge into an advantage to the same extent as what was possible in earlier iterations.
I mean, I think the game was way harder in both Vanilla and TBC. I think Wrath was a watershed moment for the game where its design changed the most drastically and they followed down the Wrath path ever since. Whether or not this is good or bad is opinion, but I agree that Wrath felt WAY easier than TBC.
I get what you are saying. Someone still has to figure the mechanics out and optimize for them. I just think there was less to need figure out as expansions piled on. I also don't think that in the end, the individual player could turn that knowledge into an advantage to the same extent as what was possible in earlier iterations.
I agree that as the game got older that the average player that aggressively tested their builds, sought out information and was just generally more responsible became less important. The irony of it is that popular theorycrafters probably contributed to the decline of the responsible average player that tried to get the most out of what was offered.
I also realized that when you talk about theorycrafters, you may have been referring to the average guy theorycrafting and not the guys that do the math and testing to an extreme point that becomes almost famous in the WoW community. I think that you were referring to theorycrafting as a fun part of the game for an everyday player. And if that is the case, then I can't disagree with that.
Name 5 things that will make the wotlk'ers and onwards spit their dummies out if they play classic wow when the server launches.
I'l go first
1. No lfg 2. No heirlooms 3. Running everywhere 4. Having to drink mana water 5. Having to use CC
I can think of more can you?
I doubt that will matter to most people. The people who don't like it simply won't play it. The people who do, will.
I won't play it simply because I don't like games in stasis, particularly MMORPGs. So, I could never pay a subscription to play a 10+ year old version of a game, that will likely get little to no decent updates.
I understand the nostalgic appeal, but it seems like an impractical way to waste my time, and money :-{
Name 5 things that will make the wotlk'ers and onwards spit their dummies out if they play classic wow when the server launches.
I'l go first
1. No lfg 2. No heirlooms 3. Running everywhere 4. Having to drink mana water 5. Having to use CC
I can think of more can you?
what are heirlooms in wow lol?
But the original wow was the best this new garbage since burning crusade has been on nothing but tilt starting with burning crusade, if they bring back the original wow as it was before burning crusade, give mages back Arcane Power, POM, Pryoblast ill think about giving it another go.
They're "Bind on Account" gear that Blizzard introduced in WoTLK to help people level alts faster. The gear could be equipped at level 1, and instead of replacing it, it scaled with your level as you leveled up. Frankly, the stats weren't even top end-WoTLK at max level. The benefit from the Heirlooms was in much easier gear management and the XP bonuses off of them. The weapons were pretty decent, as well. You can fill in like half of your gear slots with Heirlooms atm. Back in WoTLK, it was only like 3-4 slots, or so.
Heirlooms are there to help people level alts faster. No one used them at max level, because the gear is terrible there. There is no "XP" gain at max level, either.
Contrary to what some people would have you believe, sitting at low levels to steamroll levelers who decided to do a few BGs or such isn't the intended gameplay in WoW. The people complaining about Heirlooms are largely those people.
And if the Specs are literally "classic," I expect many people to be disgusted by it when they try it.
People act like Classic was the pinnacle of class/spec balance and gameplay in WoW. It wasn't.
Those classic servers were popular because they were free or extremely cheap to play on. Things are different when you still have to pay a subscription and your choice is between Old WoW and New WoW. That's why the reception for the Classic Server at Blizzcon was fairly tepid, while the new Expansion had people hollering like they were at a football game. Most people don't care about this - they appreciate forward momentum in gaming.
Comments
Not to any Dev, just in general.
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee
I soloed to max level in a very short time with no problems. One of the easiest mmorpgs I have played, really.
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
Getting rid of things that you could show were pointless is exactly why WOW is like it is now.
Losing talent trees because people were using cookie cutter builds.......
Give me the trees. So what if someone figures out the best build. It's better than not having the options.
I don't even remember seeing little people as monks. Was that the way from the beginning of MoP or did they add additional races to the Monk class later?
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
I was like "NO way, getting one! Then I saw the price and was like Oh.... Maybe later."
But the original wow was the best this new garbage since burning crusade has been on nothing but tilt starting with burning crusade, if they bring back the original wow as it was before burning crusade, give mages back Arcane Power, POM, Pryoblast ill think about giving it another go.
Went into Kara that week and did 3rd in DPS in my raid with an Enhance. Raid leader couldn't figure it out. How?.........Because I learned the build. Not just the wrote cookie cutter talents, but what stats to stack....How slower weapon speed had a greater effect on proccing WF crits that created more DPS than straight up weapon damage (with faster speeds) There were many factors that a lot of other ENH didn't take advantage of and it allowed me to stand out more. THe days of heavy theorycrafting ended with TBC. By the time Wrath was in full raid swing. It was all about.....and only about your ilvl. GEEERSKORZ, gotta have da GEERSKORZ!
Gearscore is and should be important to top guilds or PvPers that want to push, but I agree that a high skill player can help a low gearscore do better and a low skill player can make a high gearscore do worse.
That you think theorycrafting doesn't exist anymore is pretty absurd though and just shows how disconnected you are from the game.
Otherwise, Hunters wouldn't have been buying that Crossbow in the AH that was really bad for hunter DPS back at the end of Wrath, just so they could have the higher ilvl to qualify for the raids. Not saying Theorycrafting disappeared, but no, not the same level of importance in earlier iterations of WoW. There was a marked difference in the need to TC from TBC to Wrath.
Theorycrafting and theorycrafting sites and resources such as mods and builders were more popular in Wrath than they ever were before that point. I'd even go so far to say that as time has gone on, people have become more and more dependant on theorycrafters that are good at what they do. People, in general, want to simplify the WoW experience and that's exactly what theorycrafters offer.
But when the expansion needs to add epic gear to 5 man dungeons to bridge the gap because you simply couldn't get into the latest raids where item levels in 5 mans were better than what was available earlier in expansions. Players only needed to focus on getting the next tier set and stacking their primary stats.
THe average raider didn't need to spend as much time on Elitistjerks anymore. I didn't learn nearly as much about my DK at 80 as I did about my BM Hunter and my ENH at 70. And I did respectively better.
I also realized that when you talk about theorycrafters, you may have been referring to the average guy theorycrafting and not the guys that do the math and testing to an extreme point that becomes almost famous in the WoW community. I think that you were referring to theorycrafting as a fun part of the game for an everyday player. And if that is the case, then I can't disagree with that.
I won't play it simply because I don't like games in stasis, particularly MMORPGs. So, I could never pay a subscription to play a 10+ year old version of a game, that will likely get little to no decent updates.
I understand the nostalgic appeal, but it seems like an impractical way to waste my time, and money :-{
They're "Bind on Account" gear that Blizzard introduced in WoTLK to help people level alts faster. The gear could be equipped at level 1, and instead of replacing it, it scaled with your level as you leveled up. Frankly, the stats weren't even top end-WoTLK at max level. The benefit from the Heirlooms was in much easier gear management and the XP bonuses off of them. The weapons were pretty decent, as well. You can fill in like half of your gear slots with Heirlooms atm. Back in WoTLK, it was only like 3-4 slots, or so.
Heirlooms are there to help people level alts faster. No one used them at max level, because the gear is terrible there. There is no "XP" gain at max level, either.
Contrary to what some people would have you believe, sitting at low levels to steamroll levelers who decided to do a few BGs or such isn't the intended gameplay in WoW. The people complaining about Heirlooms are largely those people.
And if the Specs are literally "classic," I expect many people to be disgusted by it when they try it.
People act like Classic was the pinnacle of class/spec balance and gameplay in WoW. It wasn't.
Those classic servers were popular because they were free or extremely cheap to play on. Things are different when you still have to pay a subscription and your choice is between Old WoW and New WoW. That's why the reception for the Classic Server at Blizzcon was fairly tepid, while the new Expansion had people hollering like they were at a football game. Most people don't care about this - they appreciate forward momentum in gaming.