When it comes to Graphics in an MMO... I'll stay away from anything that tries to be realistic or on the technical edge. Since it'll look like crap in a year or two (MMOs are supposed to have the capability to be a decade thing), and when it comes to being on the technical edge it probably also means that the devs are going to purposefully set up the game to utterly avoid any way to get more than a handful of characters on the screen.
When it comes to theming and similar. I can't really get into over sized weapons as a normal case. Seriously if you're lugging and swinging that sword around you're better off taking a 1000ft/lb draw weight bow and being able to shoot arrows through tank armor.
Practice doesn't make perfect, practice makes permanent.
"At one point technology meant making tech that could get to the moon, now it means making tech that could get you a taxi."
questions like this about personal opinions kinda drive me nuts. In the end people are going to like what they like be cause they do, and they really dont need to ok that with anyone. Its a fair question, I just fail to see the point of it.
"Well let me just quote the late-great Colonel Sanders, who said…’I’m too drunk to taste this chicken." - Ricky Bobby
I feel since i loved FFXi a low end graphic game,it really proves that as long as the graphics are ok,the game play matters way more.Now obviously that was released back in 2002 so i wouldn't expect to see 2017 graphics.
Fast forward,i do expect to see games now looking better and graphics covers a lot of area,not just the superficial idea i see so often "art style".You can like an art style but that can still look awful,so the simple excuse of "art style" doesn't cut it.
A perfect example was Zelda 2 ,it was a nice EXCUSE to say they were aiming for that "nostalgic look"too bad it still looked like crap.On the flip side,an animated Pixxar production could aim for that nostalgic or cartoony look but their offering will look professional,it will look awesome.I used Zelda 2 as a target because it was given unjust high scores as well being a single player game,there was no excuse for needing low end graphics to support 150 man battles.
Still in the end ,game play does matter,however you have to portray what the game play is doing through visuals....graphics...3d animations,color,lighting etc etc,so it does matter in 2017.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
I like the way most AAA Asian MMOs look (Black Desert, Aion, ArcheAge, Bless etc), but cannot stand the strange fetish-like characters, e.g., little girls in school outfits, cute animals, male warriors with perfectly trimmed eyebrows, flowing hair, and soft skin...
SWTOR went for "stylized realism". At least that is the term they were using for it in all the videos promoting the game before release. So not so much realism, but more realism than say... WoW.
No, they went for clone wars animated which still is cartoony even if it is a different way then Wows. Lets call the style CGI or something, anything without the "realism" word in.
I have never actually bothered with classical music until I watched Nodame Cantabile. I challenge you to find the type of things you associate with anime in that anime. I even began to recognize classical pieces.
I've never heard of this. Caught some scenes on youtube. Going to check it out further as I love classical music. Thanks for this.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
I always considered graphics to be in 3 different camps. Stylized, Realistic, or a combination of the two. For me the combination is usually doing things that translate better, like doing stylized silhouettes with realistic texturing techniques. Or doing limited color palettes. As a person who has worked with Indie companies, I hate the wishy washy combined stylized realistic graphics the most. Before 2010, you had to go with a stylized approach since the technology was not there to do realistic graphics well. Such as with EQ2. Today I prefer realistic graphics with a dark style. I hate the big swords and fighting monsters crotches. My top MMOs for graphics would currently be Black Desert and Granado Espada. Age of Conan was also well done. I have not played many mmos in the last few years.
I'm pretty open-minded on artistic style, I suppose. I don't really get the cat ears and tails on human-like characters, though.
What I can't stand is the isometric or 2D / 2.5D stuff. Now that we have 3D, there's no way I'm going back to that crap. (Exceptions being made for going back to play an old game developed in that era, of course.)
I have never actually bothered with classical music until I watched Nodame Cantabile. I challenge you to find the type of things you associate with anime in that anime. I even began to recognize classical pieces.
I've never heard of this. Caught some scenes on youtube. Going to check it out further as I love classical music. Thanks for this.
The thing I also liked was how they explained the pieces within the story and the complete differences between her style and Chiaki's. For a person like me who only knows classical music as background scene for some dramatic or battle scene in a movie to end up replaying bits of the anime just to listen to it again is quite a discovery.
SWTOR went for "stylized realism". At least that is the term they were using for it in all the videos promoting the game before release. So not so much realism, but more realism than say... WoW.
No, they went for clone wars animated which still is cartoony even if it is a different way then Wows. Lets call the style CGI or something, anything without the "realism" word in.
I actually agree with their label
SWTOR
World of Warcraft
Wildstar
SWTORs art style (particularly in regards to player characters) is a fairly realistic depiction that has been given a little bit of stylism. Where games like WoW and Wildstar full on embrace the cartoony aspect of their game.
"Stylized realism" seems an appropriate label in that it is the compromise between full realism like say Star Citizen (recent) and LotRO (older), and full cartoon like WoW, Wildstar, or Crowfall.
It also seems a meaningful distinction to me in that I heavily prefer SWTORs graphics over all of the titles cartoony titles just listed except Crowfall (And I'm sure if SWTOR was being developed right now as opposed to an aging game like I'd still prefer it over Crowfall's) and I tend to prefer realism over cartoony.
We are suckers for graphics, new games can have loot boxes, dlc libraries on launch day and crap gameplay...but as long as the graphics are good we give them a pass. Style over substance all the way.
I am not a fan of cartoon looking myself, but done "realistically" the anime look is great, quite refreshing after so many western European looking MMOs.
questions like this about personal opinions kinda drive me nuts. In the end people are going to like what they like be cause they do, and they really dont need to ok that with anyone. Its a fair question, I just fail to see the point of it.
And that's why the question is asked. It's not about prying or lording one style over another but a discussion on aesthetics (or, in the case of "graphics" technical construction of what you are seeing) an insight into what makes for great art design and why this is important to the player.
Just like the time I went to a modern dance performance with an uncle of mine one of the pieces used was "Threnody for the victims of hiroshima" by Krzysztof Penderecki.
He stated that he hated "modern music" (not really modern anymore) and I asked him why. "No melody, nothing to follow, all dissonance". I asked him to watch the performance and listen to the music in a different way, especially as it pertained to what was going on in the performance.
At the end of the performance he acknowledged that he "got it" and felt it was very powerful.
These are the types of discussions that can carry real weight on a forum.
Or, we can go around and around arguing the same 3 points over and over again. It wouldn't be much of a forum then.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
I definitely prefer the SWTOR. I also liked the Bless online graphics that was in post today, I like archeage and BDO. I prefer as close to realism as possible as it is most immersive.
It's why I kind of like Conan exiles. I wonder, if I play in single player mode offline, I can crank the graphics way up right?
Cryomatrix
Catch me streaming at twitch.tv/cryomatrix You can see my sci-fi/WW2 book recommendations.
I absolutely hate WOW cartoon type of graphics. I tried to play WOW but only got one character to level 30 and had to quit because of the art style. I even regret playing for that long. That's how much I hate that graphics style. I really hate it.
We are suckers for graphics, new games can have loot boxes, dlc libraries on launch day and crap gameplay...but as long as the graphics are good we give them a pass. Style over substance all the way.
I am not a fan of cartoon looking myself, but done "realistically" the anime look is great, quite refreshing after so many western European looking MMOs.
For me, while I enjoy the graphics, I will play a good game with bad graphics (For instance Wurm Online.)
The issue is that so many people won't that graphics have one major benefit over visual appeal to me. Viability of the game. That's why these days when I see a game like Project Gorgon, Pathfinder Online, or Planescape I'm like.... "Eh, I'll pass."
Because I know that even if I end up loving the game and it's mechanics, the game will never be successful.
- Artistic Comic/Cartoon style (timeless, not the exagerated ones, but the more serious (see examples below) - Cel Shading (time less, also see Comic/cartoon style) - Realistic (but the disadvantage is that over time this graphics tend to become outdated)
I would like to see a D&D or The Dark Eye / Das Schwarze Auge MMORPG visualized by a combination of artistic, mature Comic style in cel shading optic for 3D effects... that would be great: and also timeless
Comic template taken from series "Forgotten Realms":
In graphics preferences, I prefer styles like Witcher 3 and Dragon Age Inquisition (though some of the color designs could have been way better. Red and blue together? Hideous). I loath anime anything. And I don't like the water colorish style of Borderlands (seriously, it looks like paint by number).
We are suckers for graphics, new games can have loot boxes, dlc libraries on launch day and crap gameplay...but as long as the graphics are good we give them a pass. Style over substance all the way.
I am not a fan of cartoon looking myself, but done "realistically" the anime look is great, quite refreshing after so many western European looking MMOs.
please refrain from using we when you mean I in the future.
Realistic is nice (AA and BDO) but can be hard on the eyes at times. Realistic Stylized (FFXIV, ESO) is nice too. Heavy Stylized whether it be anime-esque or Wildstar/Warcraft, cell-shaded, etc. All good.
What I can't stand, is realistic but done poorly such that you tend to notice a lot of browns, greys, nasty greens etc. It's just muddy and gross. I also can't stand games where the character creator is too difficult or downright impossible to make an attractive avatar.
Now Playing: Bless / Summoners War Looking forward to: Crowfall / Lost Ark / Black Desert Mobile
We are suckers for graphics, new games can have loot boxes, dlc libraries on launch day and crap gameplay...but as long as the graphics are good we give them a pass. Style over substance all the way.
I am not a fan of cartoon looking myself, but done "realistically" the anime look is great, quite refreshing after so many western European looking MMOs.
For me, while I enjoy the graphics, I will play a good game with bad graphics (For instance Wurm Online.)
The issue is that so many people won't that graphics have one major benefit over visual appeal to me. Viability of the game. That's why these days when I see a game like Project Gorgon, Pathfinder Online, or Planescape I'm like.... "Eh, I'll pass."
Because I know that even if I end up loving the game and it's mechanics, the game will never be successful.
This is a curse for MMO's and to a lesser extent a curse for gaming as a whole. A solid MMO player base depends on graphics so that's where all the development money goes. We are not getting anything new because the last MMO had great graphics and the one before that and the one etc.
Its like being a board gamer who has traded in his Monopoly for a painting to go on his wall.
I always get confused by this subject so tried Googling it which only helped a little bit.
From what I can tell, "art style" seems to be about the presentation itself - pixel art, vector graphics, isometric, cel shading, cartoon, photo-realism etc. Then you have the "theme", which is much more about the content - anime, dark fantasy, high fantasy etc.
But, I can easily be wrong - I know very little personally and the internet isn't that helpful.
I would say my personal preference is for "exaggerated realism" with a "western modern high fantasy" theme.......I sound like a douche!
So, presentation wise, I like fairly realistic graphics. I don't care about photo-realism - I am not looking for absolute perfect graphics or anywhere near to actual photo-realism - but I do want the graphics to look realistic (plausible would be another good description). This means I'm looking for correct dimensions on bodies, realistic animations, good scaling on distances and building sizes etc. The exaggerated part comes from knowing that aiming for pure realism results in poor ageing. So, I look for small amounts of the graphics to be exaggerated over real life - perhaps the odd glowing eyes, or oversized shoulderpads, or slightly too big sword. This slight amount of stylising allows the graphics to age better without taking too much away.
In terms of western modern high fantasy - sadly we just don't have all too much of this.
On west vs east - both cultures have a wide variety of variation but there are some generalisations that can be made. I tend to love the worlds and the monsters that come out of the east - they are usually very colourful and very different to what I'm used to. It can be quite uplifting to walk around these worlds, it's certainly very exciting. However, I cannot connect to the humans or stories. Usually, the humans are overly sexualised and the men are androgynous. I find myself constantly wanting to kill all playable characters! This is further compounded by the stories told in eastern RPGs, far too many of which are love stories. In the west, we tend to have far less imagination, but I prefer the creatures (dwarves, elves, orcs, trolls etc) and the stories and PCs tend to be more realistic and down to earth.
On modern vs older - I feel that far too many designers get stuck in the 80s/90s when it comes to western fantasy. There was a change in western fantasy in the late 90s where it just took a big leap forwards, but I noticed it through warhammer models. The style went from kinda goofy and cheesy, to more aggressive and believable. I prefer the more up-to-date fantasy styles and can live without conan-style barbarians!
On high-fantasy vs everything else - I want to be excited by the games I am playing, both in terms of gameplay and visuals. High fantasy is the most exciting for me. It keeps me exploring caves or looking round corners longer than anything else. Sadly, I find that a lot of western developers have gone down the dark fantasy route. There has been a definite trend over the last 5-10 years of opting for "dark and gritty" settings with fairly grim storylines. This trend is not just limited to games, it has gotten into our TV shows as well (especially in the UK, the US is still more lighthearted). Whilst I've played my fair share of dark / gothic / low fantasy games, I do not find them inspiring.
Generally like all styles that fits the game setting, except exaggerated anime. I also don't like when the animations dictate how combat works, preventing versatility and makes it simplistic - a problem often found in heavy action based combat systems, BUT not always, as it is a technically solvable problem, although time expensive.
Comments
When it comes to theming and similar. I can't really get into over sized weapons as a normal case. Seriously if you're lugging and swinging that sword around you're better off taking a 1000ft/lb draw weight bow and being able to shoot arrows through tank armor.
Practice doesn't make perfect, practice makes permanent.
"At one point technology meant making tech that could get to the moon, now it means making tech that could get you a taxi."
Fast forward,i do expect to see games now looking better and graphics covers a lot of area,not just the superficial idea i see so often "art style".You can like an art style but that can still look awful,so the simple excuse of "art style" doesn't cut it.
A perfect example was Zelda 2 ,it was a nice EXCUSE to say they were aiming for that "nostalgic look"too bad it still looked like crap.On the flip side,an animated Pixxar production could aim for that nostalgic or cartoony look but their offering will look professional,it will look awesome.I used Zelda 2 as a target because it was given unjust high scores as well being a single player game,there was no excuse for needing low end graphics to support 150 man battles.
Still in the end ,game play does matter,however you have to portray what the game play is doing through visuals....graphics...3d animations,color,lighting etc etc,so it does matter in 2017.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
What I hate more than ANYTHING is the hyper realistic/literal graphic styles and animations. It's not exciting at all and also gets dated very fast.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
!. pixels/Voxels (ie minecraft graphics)
2. Anime (ie 12 year old girls with huge boobs)
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
My top MMOs for graphics would currently be Black Desert and Granado Espada. Age of Conan was also well done. I have not played many mmos in the last few years.
What I can't stand is the isometric or 2D / 2.5D stuff. Now that we have 3D, there's no way I'm going back to that crap. (Exceptions being made for going back to play an old game developed in that era, of course.)
SWTOR
World of Warcraft
Wildstar
SWTORs art style (particularly in regards to player characters) is a fairly realistic depiction that has been given a little bit of stylism. Where games like WoW and Wildstar full on embrace the cartoony aspect of their game.
"Stylized realism" seems an appropriate label in that it is the compromise between full realism like say Star Citizen (recent) and LotRO (older), and full cartoon like WoW, Wildstar, or Crowfall.
It also seems a meaningful distinction to me in that I heavily prefer SWTORs graphics over all of the titles cartoony titles just listed except Crowfall (And I'm sure if SWTOR was being developed right now as opposed to an aging game like I'd still prefer it over Crowfall's) and I tend to prefer realism over cartoony.
I am not a fan of cartoon looking myself, but done "realistically" the anime look is great, quite refreshing after so many western European looking MMOs.
Just like the time I went to a modern dance performance with an uncle of mine one of the pieces used was "Threnody for the victims of hiroshima" by Krzysztof Penderecki.
He stated that he hated "modern music" (not really modern anymore) and I asked him why. "No melody, nothing to follow, all dissonance". I asked him to watch the performance and listen to the music in a different way, especially as it pertained to what was going on in the performance.
At the end of the performance he acknowledged that he "got it" and felt it was very powerful.
These are the types of discussions that can carry real weight on a forum.
Or, we can go around and around arguing the same 3 points over and over again. It wouldn't be much of a forum then.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
It's why I kind of like Conan exiles. I wonder, if I play in single player mode offline, I can crank the graphics way up right?
Cryomatrix
You can see my sci-fi/WW2 book recommendations.
The issue is that so many people won't that graphics have one major benefit over visual appeal to me. Viability of the game. That's why these days when I see a game like Project Gorgon, Pathfinder Online, or Planescape I'm like.... "Eh, I'll pass."
Because I know that even if I end up loving the game and it's mechanics, the game will never be successful.
- Artistic Comic/Cartoon style (timeless, not the exagerated ones, but the more serious (see examples below)
- Cel Shading (time less, also see Comic/cartoon style)
- Realistic (but the disadvantage is that over time this graphics tend to become outdated)
I would like to see a D&D or The Dark Eye / Das Schwarze Auge MMORPG visualized by a combination of artistic, mature Comic style in cel shading optic for 3D effects... that would be great: and also timeless
Comic template taken from series "Forgotten Realms":
see some examples: https://www.google.de/search?biw=1920&bih=918&tbm=isch&sa=1&ei=KZ__WfXFKujPgAa57rD4DQ&q=drizzt+do'urden+comic&oq=drizzt+do'urden+comic&gs_l=psy-ab.12...0.0.0.7944.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0..0.0....0...1..64.psy-ab..0.0.0....0._n9Hi3kHwSM
with cel-shading (example taken from "Prince of Persia" from Ubisoft of 2008 (!!!, still looks good and fluid due to cel-shading optic):
see also: https://www.ubisoft.com/en-us/game/prince-of-persia/
What I can't stand, is realistic but done poorly such that you tend to notice a lot of browns, greys, nasty greens etc. It's just muddy and gross. I also can't stand games where the character creator is too difficult or downright impossible to make an attractive avatar.
Looking forward to: Crowfall / Lost Ark / Black Desert Mobile
This is a curse for MMO's and to a lesser extent a curse for gaming as a whole. A solid MMO player base depends on graphics so that's where all the development money goes. We are not getting anything new because the last MMO had great graphics and the one before that and the one etc.
Its like being a board gamer who has traded in his Monopoly for a painting to go on his wall.
From what I can tell, "art style" seems to be about the presentation itself - pixel art, vector graphics, isometric, cel shading, cartoon, photo-realism etc. Then you have the "theme", which is much more about the content - anime, dark fantasy, high fantasy etc.
But, I can easily be wrong - I know very little personally and the internet isn't that helpful.
I would say my personal preference is for "exaggerated realism" with a "western modern high fantasy" theme.......I sound like a douche!
So, presentation wise, I like fairly realistic graphics. I don't care about photo-realism - I am not looking for absolute perfect graphics or anywhere near to actual photo-realism - but I do want the graphics to look realistic (plausible would be another good description). This means I'm looking for correct dimensions on bodies, realistic animations, good scaling on distances and building sizes etc. The exaggerated part comes from knowing that aiming for pure realism results in poor ageing. So, I look for small amounts of the graphics to be exaggerated over real life - perhaps the odd glowing eyes, or oversized shoulderpads, or slightly too big sword. This slight amount of stylising allows the graphics to age better without taking too much away.
In terms of western modern high fantasy - sadly we just don't have all too much of this.
On west vs east - both cultures have a wide variety of variation but there are some generalisations that can be made. I tend to love the worlds and the monsters that come out of the east - they are usually very colourful and very different to what I'm used to. It can be quite uplifting to walk around these worlds, it's certainly very exciting. However, I cannot connect to the humans or stories. Usually, the humans are overly sexualised and the men are androgynous. I find myself constantly wanting to kill all playable characters! This is further compounded by the stories told in eastern RPGs, far too many of which are love stories. In the west, we tend to have far less imagination, but I prefer the creatures (dwarves, elves, orcs, trolls etc) and the stories and PCs tend to be more realistic and down to earth.
On modern vs older - I feel that far too many designers get stuck in the 80s/90s when it comes to western fantasy. There was a change in western fantasy in the late 90s where it just took a big leap forwards, but I noticed it through warhammer models. The style went from kinda goofy and cheesy, to more aggressive and believable. I prefer the more up-to-date fantasy styles and can live without conan-style barbarians!
On high-fantasy vs everything else - I want to be excited by the games I am playing, both in terms of gameplay and visuals. High fantasy is the most exciting for me. It keeps me exploring caves or looking round corners longer than anything else. Sadly, I find that a lot of western developers have gone down the dark fantasy route. There has been a definite trend over the last 5-10 years of opting for "dark and gritty" settings with fairly grim storylines. This trend is not just limited to games, it has gotten into our TV shows as well (especially in the UK, the US is still more lighthearted). Whilst I've played my fair share of dark / gothic / low fantasy games, I do not find them inspiring.
I also don't like when the animations dictate how combat works, preventing versatility and makes it simplistic - a problem often found in heavy action based combat systems, BUT not always, as it is a technically solvable problem, although time expensive.
"I am my connectome" https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HA7GwKXfJB0