What the crap, still no Beta ETA?

MightyUnclean · November 2017

I just checked in on CU for the first time in several months. As far as I can tell, there's still not even an ETA on when the Beta will be released. I know the backers of this game are extraordinarily forgiving of the (years-long) delays, and it makes you feel better when Mark Jacobs stops by with soothing words, but...Isn't anyone else wondering if something behind the scenes has gone very wrong?

meddyck · November 2017

The only thing that really has gone wrong is that the company keeps telling people that Beta 1 or the announcement of Beta 1 are coming "soon" when in reality they have proven unable to estimate dates at all accurately.

They should just be quiet about dates and should only report progress that is being made on the game until they have an actual firm date to report.

Kyleran · November 2017

I've become far less forgiving with the lack of any sort of high level timelines.

Even if the final release date is still murky, this far into the project (4.5+ yrs) there's no good reason to not have a published beta 1 date.

Well unless of course they've run into an insurmountable design blocker.

Happened on a major project where I work and we ended up scrapping the entire solution and starting over. Delayed the delivery by 3+ years which was handled by a different mgmt team.

MightyUnclean · November 2017

I guess that's the stance they're taking now. Someone hire these guys a publisher, and maybe we'll see the game release by 2020...

Shaigh · November 2017

MJ spoke of them having a hard time recruiting people which was why they were going to open an office in seattle. Their original schedule was also built in fantasyland where they would be fully staffed on day 1 and no-one has a day off until release.

MightyUnclean · November 2017

Shaigh said:

MJ spoke of them having a hard time recruiting people which was why they were going to open an office in seattle. Their original schedule was also built in fantasyland where they would be fully staffed on day 1 and no-one has a day off until release.

I gotta ask, what kind of developer would come up with that kind of original schedule to begin with? Someone with wildly unrealistic expectations, maybe?

Shaigh · November 2017

MightyUnclean said:

Shaigh said:

MJ spoke of them having a hard time recruiting people which was why they were going to open an office in seattle. Their original schedule was also built in fantasyland where they would be fully staffed on day 1 and no-one has a day off until release.

I gotta ask, what kind of developer would come up with that kind of original schedule to begin with? Someone with wildly unrealistic expectations, maybe?

Together with unrealistic gamer expectations kickstarter is a perfect fit.

MightyUnclean · November 2017

If you're a backer, it might be worth your time to do a little digging on the CU forums. Looks like Mark Jacobs is starting to lose his shit about people discussing the delays. He basically says, either drop it, or GTFO of the forums. You guys think that's a good sign?

MightyUnclean · November 2017

Just surprised to see him attempting to edit what the backers talk about on the forums. Seems like a big departure from how they have handled things in the past. They must truly be feeling the pressure.

mgilbrtsn · November 2017

Be patient. People always say that the makers keep rushing their games and putting out crap. Finally, some have listened and taking their time to get it right. They should be lauded for not rushing and not chided. Patience, I say.

MaxBacon · November 2017

mgilbrtsn said:

Be patient. People always say that the makers keep rushing their games and putting out crap. Finally, some have listened and taking their time to get it right. They should be lauded for not rushing and not chided. Patience, I say.

Yeah the huge lack of patience when stuff gets rushed people get even angrier and move on to rant at someone else to hurry up.

Every time we saw crowdfunded/indie projects rushing releases to prevent gamers to get extra salty about it, they only got saltier because what they got was so early and raw, so it's a loose/loose situation.

CrazKanuk · November 2017

DMKano said:

Shaigh said:

MJ spoke of them having a hard time recruiting people which was why they were going to open an office in seattle. Their original schedule was also built in fantasyland where they would be fully staffed on day 1 and no-one has a day off until release.

This is why you don't open game dev studios in cities that don't have a strong game dev presence - ehm Fairfax Virginia is not exactly a hotbed for video game studios.

Same goes for Rhode Island! They don't have any there either

meddyck · November 2017

Kyleran said:

I've become far less forgiving with the lack of any sort of high level timelines.

Even if the final release date is still murky, this far into the project (4.5+ yrs) there's no good reason to not have a published beta 1 date.

Well unless of course they've run into an insurmountable design blocker.

Happened on a major project where I work and we ended up scrapping the entire solution and starting over. Delayed the delivery by 3+ years which was handled by a different mgmt team.

They've already blown right past several vague beta 1 dates (winter 2016, end of summer 2016, etc.). There's no reason to think another published beta 1 date would be any different. I prefer having the date just be "when we complete all the items on our Beta 1 feature list" rather than some estimated date that will inevitably be missed.

I'm as frustrated as everybody else that the game hasn't launched or even entered Beta 1 yet. But most of the reasons for that are well known by now: the decision to make their own engine and their difficulty hiring programmers who are willing to move to Fairfax, VA. We all knew about their intent to make their own engine when we backed and they finally solved the programmer issue a year or so ago by opening the Seattle office. Getting a refund or continuing to wait are really the only options for backers.

francis_baud · November 2017

meddyck said:

They should just be quiet about dates and should only report progress that is being made on the game until they have an actual firm date to report.

Agreed. Hopefully they will continue to refrain from announcing a date (or hinting that it's coming "soon"). Actually I think that "soon" should be banned from CSE vocabulary.

What the backers want first and foremost IMO is the ability to play a fun game and CSE seems to be heading that way with all the focus on the Saturday Night Sieges.

pantaro · November 2017

no,not worried at all. Because if i wanted a rushed cash grab with micro transactions and loot boxes we have the triple A games industry for that!

francis_baud · November 2017

DMKano said:

I am surprised that MJ has been taken his time for this long to address the forums directly - because there is no winning for him - the outcome will always be a shitstorm in the end, because inevitably someone gets upset and starts shitting down the devs throat at every turn they see.

The winning comes from the special relationship Mark and his team have built over the years with their fans. CSE has a lot of allies and friends, people willing to protect the studio and be understanding / patient when things don't go as planned. This relationship is invaluable and no matter the outcome with CU (I'm confident that it's going to be a resounding success), I'm sure it was worth it to directly deal with the fans, especially during the shitstorms.

SEANMCAD · November 2017

MightyUnclean said:

I just checked in on CU for the first time in several months. As far as I can tell, there's still not even an ETA on when the Beta will be released. I know the backers of this game are extraordinarily forgiving of the (years-long) delays, and it makes you feel better when Mark Jacobs stops by with soothing words, but...Isn't anyone else wondering if something behind the scenes has gone very wrong?

if your not a backer why would you care?

MightyUnclean · November 2017

SEANMCAD said:

MightyUnclean said:

I just checked in on CU for the first time in several months. As far as I can tell, there's still not even an ETA on when the Beta will be released. I know the backers of this game are extraordinarily forgiving of the (years-long) delays, and it makes you feel better when Mark Jacobs stops by with soothing words, but...Isn't anyone else wondering if something behind the scenes has gone very wrong?

if your not a backer why would you care?

It's "you're." And, I've been a backer for years.

Gynthazi · November 2017

For those that don't know, they DID run into massive design issues. A lot of code had to get scrapped and re-written, and a lead engineer was fired for his incompetence (sorry, it was a mutual separation). MJ is throwing a lot of personal money into this project as well, and as others have stated he expended into a Seattle office to get more talent (which he has now).

Delays suck, but stuff happens with indie-type games. At the end of the day for an "indie" game no one should be more relied on than MJ. He's going to get it done, and its going to be right. At least he has what.. 20? years of success as a producer. Hell DAoC is STILL being played by some.

look through the website, the beta 1 doc on there, and all the weekly updates they do. Trust me when I say they are not sitting on their thumbs.

I want it done too, but i'd rather have it done right. I'm Beta 1 and am dying to really dive in... hopefully *SOON*

francis_baud · November 2017

MightyUnclean said:

Just surprised to see him attempting to edit what the backers talk about on the forums. Seems like a big departure from how they have handled things in the past. They must truly be feeling the pressure.

It seems pretty much in line with how CSE handled the forums in the past. I see nothing surprising with them asking the users to stop beating the dead horse and repeating over and over again that they're late on Beta 1. They've apologized like... 200 times already and even if we keep reminding them it's not going to change anything to the fact that Beta 1 has been delayed.

Overall though I prefer the forums in which we're allowed to discuss whatever we want, but it's up to CSE to make the rules and up to me to visit this place or not.

Octagon7711 · November 2017

meddyck said:

The only thing that really has gone wrong is that the company keeps telling people that Beta 1 or the announcement of Beta 1 are coming "soon" when in reality they have proven unable to estimate dates at all accurately.

They should just be quiet about dates and should only report progress that is being made on the game until they have an actual firm date to report.

The problem with that is if you're not reporting something than there's an empty space of information. Next thing you know rumors start to spring up and there are a lot of fires to be put out. People start demanding to know if the rumors are true. Better to give some type of information even if it turns out to need to be changed than to say nothing.

Octagon7711 · November 2017

With AAA studios the upper management does the rushing. With crowd funding that gap is usually filled by the crowds. Most developers are very good at making games but aren't good overall managers. They have a lot to figure out as they go along. Not to mention the ethical problem of being in charge of large sums of money with no one really checking to see how you spend it.

meddyck · November 2017

Octagon7711 said:

meddyck said:

The only thing that really has gone wrong is that the company keeps telling people that Beta 1 or the announcement of Beta 1 are coming "soon" when in reality they have proven unable to estimate dates at all accurately.

They should just be quiet about dates and should only report progress that is being made on the game until they have an actual firm date to report.

The problem with that is if you're not reporting something than there's an empty space of information. Next thing you know rumors start to spring up and there are a lot of fires to be put out. People start demanding to know if the rumors are true. Better to give some type of information even if it turns out to need to be changed than to say nothing.

CSE gives out almost too much information about what they are working on in every Friday's update. Not talking about dates doesn't mean they stop talking about the work they are doing.

francis_baud · November 2017

Gynthazi said:

For those that don't know, they DID run into massive design issues. A lot of code had to get scrapped and re-written [...]

The ability system had to be re-written but not because of the design (it remained pretty much the same as the first iteration afaik), rather because CSE needed something more performant and versatile for the kind of gameplay they envisioned. I think that they've never blamed anyone specifically for this though. I guess CSE has its share of responsibility in the entire refactor of this system since they're supposed to oversee the work of the developers and if they figured out something went wrong only years later then visibly something went wrong on this side too. Overall though I believe that refactoring a major system isn't something uncommon in video games, especially in MMO, so maybe it was more or less inevitable and they had to go through all this.

Bottom line, now from what I've heard our ability system is amazing and innovative and they can do a ton of cool things with it, some things we've rarely seen in other MMORPGs before.

ConstantineMerus · November 2017

Ever met someone whom you thought was perfect in every way but never called you and now 40 years have passed and your life is over and you don't even remember their face?
- Crowdfunding MMORPGs

BruceYee · November 2017

If the game doesn't go into beta 1 by 2022 I'll ask for a refund.

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What the crap, still no Beta ETA?

Comments

Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey

"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey