to the editor Bill Murphy

Eldurian · November 2017

Here is my point. Say I start a group called ANTICO for "Anti Communist". And I use as a rallying cry a small radicalized group of leftists preaching the teachings of Stalin that does not enjoy any great degree of support from the rest of left-wing voters.

Then I go around to a considerable number of left-wing rallies, many by those who denounced the Stalinsts, call them communists, and physically attack them. I start violent rallies when Elizibeth Warren or Bernie Sanders come to speak at my school.

I start massive riots where I burn police cars and smash in the front window of Sportsman's Warehouses in my rural conservative community.

What am I?

An anti-communist, or a terrorist?

SEANMCAD · November 2017

Eldurian said:

Here is my point. Say I start a group called ANTICO for "Anti Communist". And I use as a rallying cry a small radicalized group of leftists preaching the teachings of Stalin that does not enjoy any great degree of support from the rest of left-wing voters.

Then I go around to a considerable number of left-wing rallies, many by those who denounced the Stalinsts, call them communists, and physically attack them. I start violent rallies when Elizibeth Warren or Bernie Sanders come to speak at my school.

I start massive riots where I burn police cars and smash in the front window of Sportsman's Warehouses in my rural conservative community.

What am I?

An anti-communist, or a terrorist?

EDIT: I think my point can be illustrated overall in one question:
'do you think smart bombs never kill innocent people and are also useless and counter productive'?

there are several problems with your illustration.

1. do you know that person in that video was a member of antifa and not some other organization or no organization at all. Or do we group ALL white people into the same group because of one las vegas shooter?

2. one person in a group does not represent the to the letter and with no deviation the prinicples of the group.

3. what antifia says they are against (and my point in illustrating it) and what they ACTUALLY do are two different things which leaves me to ask you a direct pointed question, are you against fascism?

and finally just to add I think racists should try to be less fearful and less confrontatial and explain their belief system clearly, and I think those on the left should relax for a second and listen to it. Because where we are now is a place in which an actual racist is ashamed of being called a racist and that is going to backfire on everyone.

and I want to be clear I am not endorsing racism but I am saying no matter how twisted and evil and belief is, if those who believe it feel not able to explain their believe then they will never be healed.

Eldurian · November 2017

1. Chances are that they were, but if you would like me to find you some sources that more conclusively link ANTIFA and violent demonstrations via it either being a declared ANTIFA rally or them sporting ANTIFA paraphernalia, I can find you numerous sources like this with almost no effort. You have access to Google though so I'm sure you can find it yourself as well.

2. One person doesn't represent a group. Violent ANTIFA riot, after hateful ANTIFA rhetoric, after violent ANTIFA riot, after hateful ANTIFA rhetoric, after violent ANTIFA riot does characterize their group pretty well. At this point there has been so much violence surrounding that group I am comfortable in saying that if you aren't condemning them and trying to distance yourself from it, then you're probably pretty chill with what's going on whether you will admit that or not. It's not a broad group like "The right wing" or "The left wing". It's a specific organization called together for a specific purpose. If you belonged to the boy scouts, and there was a news story about boy scouts starting violent riots every other week would you stay a member of the boy scouts or just be like "I support the core premises under which the boy scouts were founded but I can no longer support the organization as it is today."

3. I've already answered your question. I am a Libertarian. Libertarianism is a belief that the goal of government should be reduced in our lives to only it's minimal necessary functions. As one Libertarian candidate said "I want to live in a world where a gay married couple can legally protect their pot field with fully automatic machine guns." Fascism dictates total government control over nearly every aspect of life. Government controlled industry, loss of freedom of speech, loss of right to bear arms, etc. Not only am I opposed to it, I would say my own personal political leanings are far further from true fascism than the average ANTIFA member.

SEANMCAD · November 2017

Eldurian said:

1. Chances are that they were, but if you would like me to find you some sources that more conclusively link ANTIFA and violent demonstrations via it either being a declared ANTIFA rally or them sporting ANTIFA paraphernalia, I can find you numerous sources like this with almost no effort.

2. One person doesn't represent a group. Violent ANTIFA riot, after hateful ANTIFA rhetoric, after violent ANTIFA riot, after hateful ANTIFA rhetoric, after violent ANTIFA riot does characterize their group pretty well. At this point there has been so much violence surrounding that group I am comfortable in saying that if you aren't condemning them and trying to distance yourself from it, then you're probably pretty chill with what's going on whether you will admit that or not. It's not a broad group like "The right wing" or "The left wing". It's a specific organization called together for a specific purpose. If you belonged to the boy scouts, and there was a news story about boy scouts starting violent riots every other week would you stay a member of the boy scouts or just be like "I support the core premises under which the boy scouts were founded but I can no longer support the organization as it is today."

3. I've already answered your question. I am a Libertarian. Libertarianism is a belief that the goal of government should be reduced in our lives to only it's minimal necessary functions. As one Libertarian candidate said "I want to live in a world where a gay married couple can legally protect their pot field with fully automatic machine guns." Fascism dictates total government control over nearly every aspect of life. Government controlled industry, loss of freedom of speech, loss of right to bear arms, etc. Not only am I opposed to it, I would say my own personal political leanings are far further from true fascism than the average ANTIFA member.

'chance are'

yeah not remotely good enough for you to be flipping the question to Starbucks.

Smart Bombs miss targets
Smart Bombs are violent
Smart Bombs are useful

facism is not a broad group but the more one tries to defend them the more it looks like they support facist idology.

To be frank, if you cant say 'I am against facism' in america then whoever has spewed that propaganda in our country is winning the war against the united stated of america.

you need to step back and really consider who it is your are basically supporting and be honest with yourself and ask why.

if you want to start a dialogue about the views of fascism and white supremacy I support such a move, just let me know

Eldurian · November 2017

I am against fascism. I think fascism, alongside communism, is one of the worst forms of government ever conceived.

If I met Hitler, or any Nazi who worked at a concentration camp I would strangle them to death with my bear hands and feel good about it. The idea of a game where you run around blasting Nazi's into little chunky bits is in no way offensive to me.

But I am absolutely opposed to a bunch of left wing terrorists labeling any ideology they disagree with "fascism" and then perpetrating violence against the groups and individuals they have deemed to be fascist.

That is what I am saying. Is that clear enough for you? Saying fascism sucks isn't offencive to me, or probably any of your right wing friends. ANTIFA is, because they are one giant fraud who has very little to do with anti-facism.

SEANMCAD · November 2017

Eldurian said:

I am against fascism. I think fascism, alongside communism, is one of the worst forms of government ever conceived.

If I met Hitler, or any Nazi who worked at a concentration camp I would strangle them to death with my bear hands and feel good about it.

But I am absolutely opposed to a bunch of left wing terrorists labeling any ideology they disagree with "fascism" and then perpetrating violence against the groups and individuals they have deemed to be fascist.

That is what I am saying. Is that clear enough for you?

that is a much better answer to my question.

now on your second point the problem is they are not doing that. you are being TOLD that they but they arent actually doing it.

There is absolutly a media war on this country and you have been taken victim to the attacks against this country with the bullshit you have been told.

its really that basic

and the tell for me was how I had to encourage you to speak out about facism. People who are not exposed to that propagada see that part of the story immediately.

Eldurian · November 2017

The media's bias doesn't lean that way bud. Nor did they fake a million dollars in damage to Portland in the post election riots. And that's just what happened in the state where I currently reside.

SEANMCAD · November 2017

Eldurian said:

The media's bias doesn't lean that way bud. Nor did they fake a million dollars in damage to Portland in the post election riots. And that's just what happened in the state where I currently reside.

you got the entire conspiracy backwards. The bullshit you listen to is feeding you lies making you forget that the topic is about fucking white racists and instead turning it into something completely different and liying to you

and the reason I know it because of how you reacted, you had to be reminded about white racists, rather harshly I might add, that should be instictively obvious but it wasnt to you....why?

very literally people calling themselves NAZIs killed a woman in a protest in which they had far more weapons and deadly firearms then the counter protestors. And the protest was about removing confederate statue of which people feel BLM is a counter to..really? exactly how is BLM a counter to that unless its about fucking slavery.
Yet you want to talk about some guy throwing a chair into starbucks and calling him Antifa? are you completely and totally (cant say it)! these people nearly literally come out and say they support slavery and are offended when people object to it. and they get violent about it and your wanting to turn it into something about a random guy throwing something in starbucks very likely happening someplace else! I am all for racists having the right to talk but lets not white wash it like what they are saying isnt worth talking about

Eldurian · November 2017

As I've repeatedly stated. I condemned the white nationalists. Every right winger on my Facebook who posted on the subject condemned them.

I still condemn ANTIFA, because just like the people running people down with cars, they are terrorists. Plain and simple. It's not just that single case of them smashing a Starbucks. It's all of it.

It's the BLM riots, in the post-election protests, it's police having to protect conservative speakers who speak at liberal universities, it's seeing our friends, and family, and people we go to church with defend these groups. It's see our friends and family say you are racist if you support a certain position that has nothing to do with race. It's all of it.

Justifying all that by pointing to a group who we HAVE condemned, just doesn't hold water. The violence in this nation right now is primarily being driven by left wingers who believe their position holds a moral high ground so they don't have to engage in civil discourse. They are allowed to burn businesses, and don't you dare "tone police" them.

When you wake up every day and see another attack and another attack. Not just on the media but in the "Occupy Democrats" posts and retweets of liberal celebrity tweets where they say "If you voted for trump you need to tell your minority friends why you hate them" and people you personally know are liking and sharing it.

The white nationalists don't have enough support to be a real threat to anyone. Even their own party hates them. ANTIFA is real, ANTIFA is widespread, ANTIFA is crazy, and ANTIFA enjoys support from numerous people I personally know. That's a real problem. Not just a media problem.

It's evident in this very topic.

Is anyone defending white supremacists? No. As much as you would like that to be the case I've been condemning them over and over and over.

Is anyone defending left wing terrorist groups like ANTIFA? Yes. You are right now.

SEANMCAD · November 2017

Eldurian said:

As I've repeatedly stated. I condemned the white nationalists. Every right winger on my Facebook who posted on the subject condemned them.

I still condemn ANTIFA, because just like the people running people down with cars, they are terrorists. Plain and simple. It's not just that single case of them smashing a Starbucks. It's all of it.

It's the BLM riots, in the post-election protests, it's police having to protect conservative speakers....

I had to stop right there.

its not 'protect conservatives' speaking. what is going on right now regarding protecting free speech is not 'conservatives' its fucking nazis bro!

Richard Spencer is not just a conservative, he is a card carrying fucking nazi!

for the love of god, black people are being shot and killed, racists are protesting in the streets with guns and you are worried about what?

oh hell no.

not remotely good enough

but again, I think Nazis should speak, I think they should have tax payer dollars spent for their protection. But I have a problem with people making it into something its clearly not.

can you tell it gets under my skin. I try to be fair to free speech but it is nazis we are talking about here...pure and simple

QUESTION for you: you say you 'call out racists on your facebook' let me ask you a question (I am playing devils advocate here for a point) why do you consider racism wrong?

Eldurian · November 2017

Um no. It's to protect conservatives speaking. The speakers at Berkeley were not nazis. They were right-wing speakers labeled as nazis. Ben Sharpio is not a nazi, Milo is not a nazi. They are right wing speakers who say a lot of things that many people find offensive, but they aren't Nazis. They are like our equivalent of Micheal Moore and Bill Maher.

Thank you for cutting me off there because it shows who you really are. Someone willing to label anyone you disagree with as a nazi. And it's people like you that make us hate groups like ANTIFA, and see the hidden violence filled messages in quotes like the one Bill Murphy used. I'll look for your face behind the mask at the next Starbucks smashing.

SEANMCAD · November 2017

Eldurian said:

Um no. It's protect conservatives speaking. The speakers at Berkeley were not nazis. They were right-wing speakers labeled as nazis. Ben Sharpio is not a nazi, Milo is not a nazi. They are right wing speakers who say a lot of things that many people find offensive, but they aren't Nazis. They are like our equivalent of Micheal Moore and Bill Maher.

Thank you for cutting me off there because it shows who you really are. Someone willing to label anyone you disagree with as a nazi. And it's people like you that make us hate groups like ANTIFA, and see the hidden violence filled messages in quotes like the one Bill Murphy used. I'll look for your face behind the mask at the next Starbucks smashing.

sorry but your wrong Richard Spencer is a white nationalist. (your right not a NAZI) and its clear to me that you (like me) support that he should be allowed to speak. I think he should.

But trying to suggest that he is just a conservative and not a racist is lying and franky I find that more offensive then racism.

and I ask you, if you call out people for being racist please explain to me why you feel racism is bad.

and you cant realistically expect people to say things like 'all black people are inferior' 'all black people should go back to africa' 'black people should be enslaved' and expect the common man to just listen. It takes a lot of displine to listen to that and not get violent

Eldurian · November 2017

Interesting. All the signs I see say "Milo" not "Richard Spencer"

https://www.google.com/search?q=berkeley+riots&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwit97eJ8KDXAhUP42MKHVBbC8gQ_AUIDCgD&biw=1381&bih=799

SEANMCAD · November 2017

Eldurian said:

Interesting. All the signs I see say "Milo" not "Richard Spencer"

https://www.google.com/search?q=berkeley+riots&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwit97eJ8KDXAhUP42MKHVBbC8gQ_AUIDCgD&biw=1381&bih=799

please address my points and dont be evasive.

Your coming off right now as though you are in support of someone like Richard Spencer (which is fine if you do and if you do I would love for you to speak up about it) but please do a better job understanding what I am illustrating here.

Eldurian · November 2017

I don't support White Nationalism but I do support the right of anyone to speak without burning down a campus (Primarily for the sake of the campus if not the speaker.) But the Berekely riots weren't over white nationalism or nazis. They were over liberals who don't believe in the right of the right wing to disagree with them.

That's why the main name they were angry over wasn't even that of a white nationalist. You come off as someone who supports this right now:

Image: https://wearechange.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/milo-2.jpg

SEANMCAD · November 2017

Milo is a racist.

now I want to ask you, why do you not support White Nationalism? what do you see is wrong with it?

if I have to ask that question more than once (which I already have basically) it tells me a lot about a person and not what you think.

If I am Bernie Sanders and I make a speech to tell you what I believe and all those items in the believe clearly sound like socialism then I should not get offended by being called a socialist.

If I am Bernie Sanders and i get up and talk about all these prinicples and then hide and try to say I am not a socialist my agenda will fail.

thus white nationalism is going to fail

Racism is the belief that one or more races are superior to other races and those races for the most part should be subjecated. Ok...that is the definition.

if one believes that they are a racist, no reason to see it any other way other than being afraid of being called something by a group that one doesnt want to be a part of in the first place!

make sense at all? it is fairly complex to be fair.

MikeB · November 2017

Flem said:

KInda gotta agree with you, he took it too far by throwing in his own political view. He obviously doesn't know the sites own code of conduct, was a time when people used to get banned for just saying the word "Politics". Now the staff can get away with it.

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