Based on what's been promised and how Portalarium has presented game development and made launch promise after launch promise it's reasonable to see how anyone would expect a game to be delivered. This reasonable expectation of game delivery is not what's being conveyed when Portalarium says that if people don't buy from their add-on store the game will not be finished.
This is contrary to everything that's been said by the devs. They keep saying they are ready for launch but then they push it back. Now they say the game will not finish without people buying from the add-on store. How is this possible? The game is not even launched?
If the game was in a commercial release state, I could understand that the game would need to have the add-on store frequented or it would close. That makes sense. But for a project that has been live and persistent for more than a year, once that has promises launch so many times and has even said they are feature complete and are polishing for commercial launch. A game with a global distribution scheme that will be managed by three independent publishing companies. How did they come all the way to finish line just to fail because a few hundred players stopped using the cash shop?
Based on what's been promised and how Portalarium has presented game development and made launch promise after launch promise it's reasonable to see how anyone would expect a game to be delivered. ....
a lot of people have this misunderstanding about how donations to a project works and they think the are entitled to the result and they interpret a presentation of what the developer is planning on as a...'promise' but its not.
Trust me when I say, the sooner you learn this the better life will be. When it comes to anything you do not have direct over arching control over, its never a sure thing until you can buy it and get it in your hands and its not a sure thing until its in your hands.
The future is not something you can control, promises are for the gullible.
That rule of life applies to almost everything
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
"nobody forced to buy from add on store",,well yeah nobody is forced to buy anything in this world. However IF i was a player in this game,i would want full access to ALL of the game and not be nickle and dimed to get a piece of each asset. LEGIT well organized game developers sell a complete game,let's say 50-90 bucks.Portalarium team is not doing anything more than any other legit developer,so dissecting sales of a complete game into micro sales adding up well over a thousand bucks is asinine.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Where along the timeline did developers start thinking they DESERVE for gamer's to give them FREE money to develop games? Where in the timeline did gamer's become stupid enough to fall for this?
OK let me guess,it's in the drinking water?Trump administration is using subliminal messages?
Osama Bin Laden is behind it all?
It is all part of homeland security?
Hmmm now i wonder why so few trick or treat kids this year,hmm we are all being run by manipulative sonic airwaves from some secret laboratory run by Snowden from Russia !!!,yeah that's it.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Where along the timeline did developers start thinking they DESERVE for gamer's to give them FREE money to develop games? Where in the timeline did gamer's become stupid enough to fall for this?
OK let me guess,it's in the drinking water?Trump administration is using subliminal messages?
Osama Bin Laden is behind it all?
It is all part of homeland security?
Hmmm now i wonder why so few trick or treat kids this year,hmm we are all being run by manipulative sonic airwaves from some secret laboratory run by Snowden from Russia !!!,yeah that's it.
The developer inst related to this fundamental truth
when you donate to a project you are NOT entitled to that project being completed. Presentations by the developer of what they plan to work on is not a promise. You might however be able to get your money back
end of story
no exceptions peroid
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Based on what's been promised and how Portalarium has presented game development and made launch promise after launch promise it's reasonable to see how anyone would expect a game to be delivered. ....
a lot of people have this misunderstanding about how donations to a project works and they think the are entitled to the result and they interpret a presentation of what the developer is planning on as a...'promise' but its not.
Trust me when I say, the sooner you learn this the better life will be. When it comes to anything you do not have direct over arching control over, its never a sure thing until you can buy it and get it in your hands and its not a sure thing until its in your hands.
The future is not something you can control, promises are for the gullible.
That rule of life applies to almost everything
I agree with this.
People make life so difficult when it doesn't have to be.
One wants to give money to a game? Just assume that anything and everything can happen during development. Still want to give money with no guarantees on the outcome? Great! do so and wash your hands of it.
But people can't do that. They actually want to believe that what is promised at the outset is going to happen verbatim even though so much needs to happen just to get the game across the finish line.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
Based on what's been promised and how Portalarium has presented game development and made launch promise after launch promise it's reasonable to see how anyone would expect a game to be delivered. ....
a lot of people have this misunderstanding about how donations to a project works and they think the are entitled to the result and they interpret a presentation of what the developer is planning on as a...'promise' but its not.
Trust me when I say, the sooner you learn this the better life will be. When it comes to anything you do not have direct over arching control over, its never a sure thing until you can buy it and get it in your hands and its not a sure thing until its in your hands.
The future is not something you can control, promises are for the gullible.
That rule of life applies to almost everything
I agree with this.
People make life so difficult when it doesn't have to be.
One wants to give money to a game? Just assume that anything and everything can happen during development. Still want to give money with no guarantees on the outcome? Great! do so and wash your hands of it.
But people can't do that. They actually want to believe that what is promised at the outset is going to happen verbatim even though so much needs to happen just to get the game across the finish line.
even if you take your car into the shop to have it worked on. All you are guarteneed is either A. the car back in the same condition you left it and your money back or B. the project completed.
peroid end of
why are these people over thinking this?
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Based on what's been promised and how Portalarium has presented game development and made launch promise after launch promise it's reasonable to see how anyone would expect a game to be delivered. ....
a lot of people have this misunderstanding about how donations to a project works and they think the are entitled to the result and they interpret a presentation of what the developer is planning on as a...'promise' but its not.
Trust me when I say, the sooner you learn this the better life will be. When it comes to anything you do not have direct over arching control over, its never a sure thing until you can buy it and get it in your hands and its not a sure thing until its in your hands.
The future is not something you can control, promises are for the gullible.
That rule of life applies to almost everything
I agree with this.
People make life so difficult when it doesn't have to be.
One wants to give money to a game? Just assume that anything and everything can happen during development. Still want to give money with no guarantees on the outcome? Great! do so and wash your hands of it.
But people can't do that. They actually want to believe that what is promised at the outset is going to happen verbatim even though so much needs to happen just to get the game across the finish line.
A lot of people are stupid. When I give money like this, I assume it is gone and a bonus if I get something. Think of it as being a patron to gaming.
25+ years ago, when I was an active go player, I would give money to go clubs who had a little newsletter or something just to support the hobby. I used to judge AD&D games at GenCon as well for another example.
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what
it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience
because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in
the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you
playing an MMORPG?"
Based on what's been promised and how Portalarium has presented game development and made launch promise after launch promise it's reasonable to see how anyone would expect a game to be delivered. ....
a lot of people have this misunderstanding about how donations to a project works and they think the are entitled to the result and they interpret a presentation of what the developer is planning on as a...'promise' but its not.
Trust me when I say, the sooner you learn this the better life will be. When it comes to anything you do not have direct over arching control over, its never a sure thing until you can buy it and get it in your hands and its not a sure thing until its in your hands.
The future is not something you can control, promises are for the gullible.
That rule of life applies to almost everything
I agree with this.
People make life so difficult when it doesn't have to be.
One wants to give money to a game? Just assume that anything and everything can happen during development. Still want to give money with no guarantees on the outcome? Great! do so and wash your hands of it.
But people can't do that. They actually want to believe that what is promised at the outset is going to happen verbatim even though so much needs to happen just to get the game across the finish line.
A lot of people are stupid. When I give money like this, I assume it is gone and a bonus if I get something. Think of it as being a patron to gaming.
25+ years ago, when I was an active go player, I would give money to go clubs who had a little newsletter or something just to support the hobby. I used to judge AD&D games at GenCon as well for another example.
its like if I take my car to the shop to get something fixed and the shop burns down and my 1957 chevy with tons of custom work gets burned as well. Its literally impossible for them to do the task. This is why we are not 'entitled' to a project. if its physically not possible for just reasons or INJUST reasons then its not possible by the physical world and thinking one is in the right doesnt create magic, so the best one can get is their money back and monitory damages (as example of my truck)
why do people not understand this? why do they think that just because someone promised something and that they SHOULD do it that money to ACTUALLY do it sudden magically appears, regardless of if that developer was jet skiing all day. Sure its wrong for him to do that but he still cant make money appear out of nowhere, only Paul Manafort can do that.
well bad example but hopefuly understood anyway
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Based on what's been promised and how Portalarium has presented game development and made launch promise after launch promise it's reasonable to see how anyone would expect a game to be delivered. ....
a lot of people have this misunderstanding about how donations to a project works and they think the are entitled to the result and they interpret a presentation of what the developer is planning on as a...'promise' but its not.
Trust me when I say, the sooner you learn this the better life will be. When it comes to anything you do not have direct over arching control over, its never a sure thing until you can buy it and get it in your hands and its not a sure thing until its in your hands.
The future is not something you can control, promises are for the gullible.
That rule of life applies to almost everything
I agree with this.
People make life so difficult when it doesn't have to be.
One wants to give money to a game? Just assume that anything and everything can happen during development. Still want to give money with no guarantees on the outcome? Great! do so and wash your hands of it.
But people can't do that. They actually want to believe that what is promised at the outset is going to happen verbatim even though so much needs to happen just to get the game across the finish line.
A lot of people are stupid. When I give money like this, I assume it is gone and a bonus if I get something. Think of it as being a patron to gaming.
25+ years ago, when I was an active go player, I would give money to go clubs who had a little newsletter or something just to support the hobby. I used to judge AD&D games at GenCon as well for another example.
its like if I take my car to the shop to get something fixed and the shop burns down and my 1957 chevy with tons of custom work gets burned as well. Its literally impossible for them to do the task. This is why we are not 'entitled' to a project. if its physically not possible for just reasons or INJUST reasons then its not possible by the physical world and thinking one is in the right doesnt create magic, so the best one can get is their money back and monitory damages (as example of my truck)
why do people not understand this? why do they think that just because someone promised something and that they SHOULD do it that money to ACTUALLY do it sudden magically appears, regardless of if that developer was jet skiing all day. Sure its wrong for him to do that but he still cant make money appear out of nowhere, only Paul Manafort can do that.
well bad example but hopefuly understood anyway
Actually the only one using the word 'entitled' is you, in nearly every statement you make. You assume to read minds about how we feel it appears.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
Actually the only one using the word 'entitled' is you, in nearly every statement you make. You assume to read minds about how we feel it appears.
yes I am using the word, the other side doesnt understand that what they are describing is that word lets not get lost in the unimportant details of word use
but I think there is confusion on two different points.
1. that a player should expect a game when they donate. reasonable..I dont think they are entitled to that happening but expecting it is fair.
separate from that however: 2. not understanding that what the developer is saying at its core is that if the money is not there the game is not happening...peroid. that is just reality, fairness isnt going to change it. get your money back is all you can hope for
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
If everything is legal and all the promises were made in good faith because there was a real and honest belief based on proper accounting and realistic projections that a product could be delivered and all promises kept, that would be ok. Portalarium has done things differently though. They have said that they are launching at the end of the year in 2014, 2015, 2016, 2017, and now maybe they will never launch. They don't sell $5 items in their microtransaction store, they sell $14,000 items and $3k items, and $1k items, and $500 items, and a few things for less than $100. They have always said to backers that everything is an investment and then they announce partnerships with a bitcoin company (NEVERDIE) and two publishers and do more campaigning for funds.
If they did not use all that money for development and instead did something else, that is not ok. Where is all this money and why are they making backers feel bad now for not giving more money? It's not ok, and it's not a life lesson. The life lesson comes when all this ends up in court. There are many backers with many tens of thousands of dollars invested and maybe even many with more so it is not like a normal game. This game made sure everyone was doing RMT and they made everyone do all the trading in their game and on their forums or they risk being banned. They did all this and now they say that the game will not finish if the people don't buy from the add-on store. This is not just a life lesson.
If everything is legal and all the promises were made in good faith because there was a real and honest belief based on proper accounting and realistic projections that a product could be delivered and all promises kept, that would be ok. Portalarium has done things differently though. They have said that they are launching at the end of the year in 2014, 2015, 2016, 2017, and now maybe they will never launch. They don't sell $5 items in their microtransaction store, they sell $14,000 items and $3k items, and $1k items, and $500 items, and a few things for less than $100. They have always said to backers that everything is an investment and then they announce partnerships with a bitcoin company (NEVERDIE) and two publishers and do more campaigning for funds.
If they did not use all that money for development and instead did something else, that is not ok. Where is all this money and why are they making backers feel bad now for not giving more money? It's not ok, and it's not a life lesson. The life lesson comes when all this ends up in court. There are many backers with many tens of thousands of dollars invested and maybe even many with more so it is not like a normal game. This game made sure everyone was doing RMT and they made everyone do all the trading in their game and on their forums or they risk being banned. They did all this and now they say that the game will not finish if the people don't buy from the add-on store. This is not just a life lesson.
I dont even have to read past the first sentence.
here is how it works. If the project (ANY project from a house, to a game) does not literally exist, all you are entitled to at best is your money back.
The reason is because reality deals us with events that can make it literally impossible to complete the so called 'promise' and frankly anyone who ever makes you a 'promise' you should learn sooner rather than later that sometimes its literally impossible to fulfill that promise. Doesnt matter if he took the money and put it in a big pile and burned it and then went out an hired a bunch of truck drivers as his development team. He can not make the money or the talent magically appear so the best you can hope for is your money back. if he cant make a game he cant make a game. peroid
I am not changing my position on this because I know I am right
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
If everything is legal and all the promises were made in good faith because there was a real and honest belief based on proper accounting and realistic projections that a product could be delivered and all promises kept, that would be ok. Portalarium has done things differently though. They have said that they are launching at the end of the year in 2014, 2015, 2016, 2017, and now maybe they will never launch. They don't sell $5 items in their microtransaction store, they sell $14,000 items and $3k items, and $1k items, and $500 items, and a few things for less than $100. They have always said to backers that everything is an investment and then they announce partnerships with a bitcoin company (NEVERDIE) and two publishers and do more campaigning for funds.
If they did not use all that money for development and instead did something else, that is not ok. Where is all this money and why are they making backers feel bad now for not giving more money? It's not ok, and it's not a life lesson. The life lesson comes when all this ends up in court. There are many backers with many tens of thousands of dollars invested and maybe even many with more so it is not like a normal game. This game made sure everyone was doing RMT and they made everyone do all the trading in their game and on their forums or they risk being banned. They did all this and now they say that the game will not finish if the people don't buy from the add-on store. This is not just a life lesson.
I dont even have to read past the first sentence.
here is how it works. If the project (ANY project from a house, to a game) does not literally exist, all you are entitled to at best is your money back.
The reason is because reality deals us with events that can make it literally impossible to complete the so called 'promise' and frankly anyone who ever makes you a 'promise' you should learn sooner rather than later that sometimes its literally impossible to fulfill that promise.
I am not changing my position on this because I know I am right
Many differing opinions on this, and laws depending on where you live. Where business promises are made and agreed too and especially when money exchanges hands promises take on different meanings. Many people get into trouble assuming things will be ok because of unforeseen circumstances and then they apologize and just go bankrupt.
You can be right. But the person that gave 100k to development and investment because of special private conversations with devs via PM or because of promises made during conversations that led to the exchange of money for services may feel differently. And this is another reason why it is so confusing to hear Portalarium say that if people don't continue to use the add-on store the game will not finish. It is disturbing to think that maybe the devs will just turn off the servers and say "we're sorry" one day because not enough people are using the add-on store now. They are three publishers strong, what are they going to do to see the game launch? They should not frighten their supporters like this, they don't have many left. They need to develop a strategy to get more people interested in the game.
Based on what's been promised and how Portalarium has presented game development and made launch promise after launch promise it's reasonable to see how anyone would expect a game to be delivered. ....
a lot of people have this misunderstanding about how donations to a project works and they think the are entitled to the result and they interpret a presentation of what the developer is planning on as a...'promise' but its not.
Trust me when I say, the sooner you learn this the better life will be. When it comes to anything you do not have direct over arching control over, its never a sure thing until you can buy it and get it in your hands and its not a sure thing until its in your hands.
The future is not something you can control, promises are for the gullible.
That rule of life applies to almost everything
I agree with this.
People make life so difficult when it doesn't have to be.
One wants to give money to a game? Just assume that anything and everything can happen during development. Still want to give money with no guarantees on the outcome? Great! do so and wash your hands of it.
But people can't do that. They actually want to believe that what is promised at the outset is going to happen verbatim even though so much needs to happen just to get the game across the finish line.
I agree with what you said but where in the crowdfunding are the warnings or non-guarantees? Crowdfunding is all about hype but somewhere, buried deep down in the pages is a small line in the fine print with the warning that what you are donating to "might" not get finished.
What makes it even worse is that these companies are free to change the terms of their service. Star Citizen originally offered a refund if the game missed its 2012 projected launch date by more than 18 months but that was removed when it became apparent they would never hit that window.
It just seems like the entire games industry is stacked against the consumer. 1. Crowdfunded games that dramatically underestimate the amount of money or time needed 2. Game companies allowed to change their ToS when they want 3. Game companies allowed to advertise features on TV that they know will not be in the game (multiplayer in no mans sky) 4. Game companies allowed to dramatically change game play and take everything you have worked for over the last 200 hours and make it useless.
Things are so bad, I dont pre-order or crowdfund or buy an early access game until I can see actual game play videos from someone not affiliated with the developer. It is sad to see this industry evolve into what it has become.
"Sean (Murray) saying MP will be in the game is not remotely close to evidence that at the point of purchase people thought there was MP in the game." - SEANMCAD
If everything is legal and all the promises were made in good faith because there was a real and honest belief based on proper accounting and realistic projections that a product could be delivered and all promises kept, that would be ok. Portalarium has done things differently though. They have said that they are launching at the end of the year in 2014, 2015, 2016, 2017, and now maybe they will never launch. They don't sell $5 items in their microtransaction store, they sell $14,000 items and $3k items, and $1k items, and $500 items, and a few things for less than $100. They have always said to backers that everything is an investment and then they announce partnerships with a bitcoin company (NEVERDIE) and two publishers and do more campaigning for funds.
If they did not use all that money for development and instead did something else, that is not ok. Where is all this money and why are they making backers feel bad now for not giving more money? It's not ok, and it's not a life lesson. The life lesson comes when all this ends up in court. There are many backers with many tens of thousands of dollars invested and maybe even many with more so it is not like a normal game. This game made sure everyone was doing RMT and they made everyone do all the trading in their game and on their forums or they risk being banned. They did all this and now they say that the game will not finish if the people don't buy from the add-on store. This is not just a life lesson.
I dont even have to read past the first sentence.
here is how it works. If the project (ANY project from a house, to a game) does not literally exist, all you are entitled to at best is your money back.
The reason is because reality deals us with events that can make it literally impossible to complete the so called 'promise' and frankly anyone who ever makes you a 'promise' you should learn sooner rather than later that sometimes its literally impossible to fulfill that promise.
I am not changing my position on this because I know I am right
Many differing opinions on this, ....
its not an opinion. If the money or the talent does not exist it cant be done.
this is a very fundamental core unwavering reality here based on the material world. If I 'promise' you a house and then I get convicted of a crime and put in jail and all my money is gone it doesnt matter how much I promise its literally physically impossible.
which is why the most you can hope for is your money back. they can not make the literally impossible happen.
What you think we went to the moon only because it was promissed? no because it was scientifically possible, if it was not scientifically possible no amount of promising would change that
god damnit!
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Why is he a troll? He's made a legit point which few people have agreed with.. Not sure why you turned this in to thread about Sean.
To the topic, I can see both points. When it comes to crowdfunding projects, don't expect anything regardless of what's being said, at the end of the day you're trying to fund someones dream, shit like this can go south really quickly even if you plan like high hell.
Saying that, it can get to a point where you're asking, "what else do you want from us". Based on the OPs info, they're not just going the CF route, they're asking money from all over the place. private investors, pledging, cash-shop, telethons and a second crowdfunding campaign, if after all that the games not making much progress and the focus of development seem more fixed on the case shop, then i'm not surprised by the reaction.
I think a fans support can only go so far and then when you back them into a corner after all this time pulling them along with release date and say, "the game will not be made if you don't use our cash shop", kinda makes you fell like, "wtf?"
Why is he a troll? He's made a legit point which few people have agreed with.. Not sure why you turned this in to thread about Sean.
He didn't turn this into a thread about Sean.
Sean turns every thread he participates in as a soapbox for his agenda.
Sean turned it into a thread about Sean.
The rest of your post makes sense. However, let's be clear about your last paragraph. The only reason they aren't pushing the shop more is that everyone has been bled dry by Garriott and Co, not because Portalarium doesn't want to push the shop more. If they thought for a second the supporters would cough up additional cash via the shop, it would get loaded up with digital pixels faster than the speed of light.
So tell me dont you think its POSSIBLE that they could rent out ships?
Dude, you cant deny what a CEO says one day and then use it as an excuse the next day. Could you please pick a side and stay there?
When defending No Mans Sky you said, and I quote:
"Sean (Murray) saying MP will be in the game is not remotely close to evidence that at the point of purchase people thought there was MP in the game."
But now you say there is evidence that renting will be in the game because Chris Roberts mentioned it in a PR video.
If Sean Murray going on national TV and saying multiplayer will be in the game is NOT evidence that people "possibly" could have thought multiplayer was in the game then how can you use a simple PR video as "evidence" that renting could "possibly" be in the game?
I am not arguing about renting being in the game, I am simply pointing out how Sean flip flops on excuses and will use something to defend an argument one day but use the exact same thing to condemn something else the next day.
"Sean (Murray) saying MP will be in the game is not remotely close to evidence that at the point of purchase people thought there was MP in the game." - SEANMCAD
So tell me dont you think its POSSIBLE that they could rent out ships?
Dude, you cant deny what a CEO says one day and then use it as an excuse the next day. Could you please pick a side and stay there?
When defending No Mans Sky you said, and I quote:
"Sean (Murray) saying MP will be in the game is not remotely close to evidence that at the point of purchase people thought there was MP in the game."
But now you say there is evidence that renting will be in the game because Chris Roberts mentioned it in a PR video.
If Sean Murray going on national TV and saying multiplayer will be in the game is NOT evidence that people "possibly" could have thought multiplayer was in the game then how can you use a simple PR video as "evidence" that renting could "possibly" be in the game?
I am not arguing about renting being in the game, I am simply pointing out how Sean flip flops on excuses and will use something to defend an argument one day but use the exact same thing to condemn something else the next day.
Well as i see it it is called trolling and seeking attention. I agree with OP that you start to wonder where all the money so far raised have gone?
And why do this company postpone release all the time?
The one's that have the power to finance their game is developer's not their customer's. I have bought this game for 45$ during kickstarter and i know it is a risk it will never become a finished game and i am ok with that. If developer's fail then it is their fault and noone else. They had a poor system to fund their game.
So tell me dont you think its POSSIBLE that they could rent out ships?
Dude, you cant deny what a CEO says one day and then use it as an excuse the next day. Could you please pick a side and stay there?
When defending No Mans Sky you said, and I quote:
"Sean (Murray) saying MP will be in the game is not remotely close to evidence that at the point of purchase people thought there was MP in the game."
But now you say there is evidence that renting will be in the game because Chris Roberts mentioned it in a PR video.
If Sean Murray going on national TV and saying multiplayer will be in the game is NOT evidence that people "possibly" could have thought multiplayer was in the game then how can you use a simple PR video as "evidence" that renting could "possibly" be in the game?
I am not arguing about renting being in the game, I am simply pointing out how Sean flip flops on excuses and will use something to defend an argument one day but use the exact same thing to condemn something else the next day.
Well as i see it it is called trolling and seeking attention. I agree with OP that you start to wonder where all the money so far raised have gone?
And why do this company postpone release all the time?
The one's that have the power to finance their game is developer's not their customer's. I have bought this game for 45$ during kickstarter and i know it is a risk it will never become a finished game and i am ok with that. If developer's fail then it is their fault and noone else. They had a poor system to fund their game.
I think we have gotten off tract a bit. The OP is suggesting what he sees as a contradiction. buying the items is a choice: TRUE but if you dont buy the items the game might not happen: TRUE Is that fair? likely not but fairness cant change reality
make sense?
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
I think we have gotten off tract a bit. The OP is suggesting what he sees as a contradiction. buying the items is a choice: TRUE but if you dont buy the items the game might not happen: TRUE Is that fair? likely not but fairness cant change reality
make sense?
Again, they did not say it might not happen, they said it will not happen.
If we don't do that, then the game will
never be finished.
They are three publishing companies with millions of dollars at their disposal and they threaten backers that if the game doesn't launch it's our fault because we did not spend enough in the add-on store. There is something very wrong here, with fundamental nature of all game development in question.
I think we have gotten off tract a bit. The OP is suggesting what he sees as a contradiction. buying the items is a choice: TRUE but if you dont buy the items the game might not happen: TRUE Is that fair? likely not but fairness cant change reality
make sense?
Again, they did not say it might not happen, they said it will not happen.
If we don't do that, then the game will
never be finished.
They are three publishing companies with millions of dollars at their disposal and they threaten backers that if the game doesn't launch it's our fault because we did not spend enough in the add-on store. There is something very wrong here, with fundamental nature of all game development in question.
no they said it 'will not happen' if they dont secure funding. Not will not happen only if the in game item purchases do not happen.
your own OP doesnt even suggest you read it that way originally.
please try not to paint an in game purchase of a video game as a 'threat' by the big bad developer against you. its rather unbecoming.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Considering that the game is early access and still not launched, yes I do think what they said about spending in the add-on store could be considered a threat when you also understand how much people invest in this game. By their own accounting they say each player in their game spends the average of $200 and there are many whales that you can visit their tows in game and just by seeing what decorations they have placed understand that they have invested many thousands of dollars each. So yes, when the developer says the game will never be finished if people stop using the add-on store then it is scary to think about.
Considering that the game is early access and still not launched, yes I do think what they said about spending in the add-on store could be considered a threat when you also understand how much people invest in this game. By their own accounting they say each player in their game spends the average of $200 and there are many whales that you can visit their tows in game and just by seeing what decorations they have placed understand that they have invested many thousands of dollars each. So yes, when the developer says the game will never be finished if people stop using the add-on store then it is scary to think about.
again...the statement (of which in your orginal OP did NOT interpret as you are now) is stating that if the game does not secure funding (NOT specifically in game purchases) then the game will not happen.
That is not a threat its reality of life. My request of you to not paint it as a 'threat' is because its a video game, not a major social injustice done against the world that needs the FBI to come in or something. Are you sure you want to be the guy who paints themselves as a victim of a developer like that?
Also, the number of publishers doesnt matter, how much money do those publishers have? what is the contract agreement regarding funding from those publishers?
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Comments
This is contrary to everything that's been said by the devs. They keep saying they are ready for launch but then they push it back. Now they say the game will not finish without people buying from the add-on store. How is this possible? The game is not even launched?
If the game was in a commercial release state, I could understand that the game would need to have the add-on store frequented or it would close. That makes sense. But for a project that has been live and persistent for more than a year, once that has promises launch so many times and has even said they are feature complete and are polishing for commercial launch. A game with a global distribution scheme that will be managed by three independent publishing companies. How did they come all the way to finish line just to fail because a few hundred players stopped using the cash shop?
This is not normal.
Trust me when I say, the sooner you learn this the better life will be. When it comes to anything you do not have direct over arching control over, its never a sure thing until you can buy it and get it in your hands and its not a sure thing until its in your hands.
The future is not something you can control, promises are for the gullible.
That rule of life applies to almost everything
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However IF i was a player in this game,i would want full access to ALL of the game and not be nickle and dimed to get a piece of each asset.
LEGIT well organized game developers sell a complete game,let's say 50-90 bucks.Portalarium team is not doing anything more than any other legit developer,so dissecting sales of a complete game into micro sales adding up well over a thousand bucks is asinine.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Where in the timeline did gamer's become stupid enough to fall for this?
OK let me guess,it's in the drinking water?Trump administration is using subliminal messages?
Osama Bin Laden is behind it all?
It is all part of homeland security?
Hmmm now i wonder why so few trick or treat kids this year,hmm we are all being run by manipulative sonic airwaves from some secret laboratory run by Snowden from Russia !!!,yeah that's it.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
when you donate to a project you are NOT entitled to that project being completed. Presentations by the developer of what they plan to work on is not a promise. You might however be able to get your money back
end
of
story
no
exceptions
peroid
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People make life so difficult when it doesn't have to be.
One wants to give money to a game? Just assume that anything and everything can happen during development. Still want to give money with no guarantees on the outcome? Great! do so and wash your hands of it.
But people can't do that. They actually want to believe that what is promised at the outset is going to happen verbatim even though so much needs to happen just to get the game across the finish line.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
peroid
end
of
why are these people over thinking this?
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A lot of people are stupid. When I give money like this, I assume it is gone and a bonus if I get something. Think of it as being a patron to gaming.
25+ years ago, when I was an active go player, I would give money to go clubs who had a little newsletter or something just to support the hobby. I used to judge AD&D games at GenCon as well for another example.
Epic Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1
https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
why do people not understand this? why do they think that just because someone promised something and that they SHOULD do it that money to ACTUALLY do it sudden magically appears, regardless of if that developer was jet skiing all day. Sure its wrong for him to do that but he still cant make money appear out of nowhere, only Paul Manafort can do that.
well bad example but hopefuly understood anyway
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"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
but I think there is confusion on two different points.
1. that a player should expect a game when they donate.
reasonable..I dont think they are entitled to that happening but expecting it is fair.
separate from that however:
2. not understanding that what the developer is saying at its core is that if the money is not there the game is not happening...peroid. that is just reality, fairness isnt going to change it. get your money back is all you can hope for
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If they did not use all that money for development and instead did something else, that is not ok. Where is all this money and why are they making backers feel bad now for not giving more money? It's not ok, and it's not a life lesson. The life lesson comes when all this ends up in court. There are many backers with many tens of thousands of dollars invested and maybe even many with more so it is not like a normal game. This game made sure everyone was doing RMT and they made everyone do all the trading in their game and on their forums or they risk being banned. They did all this and now they say that the game will not finish if the people don't buy from the add-on store. This is not just a life lesson.
here is how it works.
If the project (ANY project from a house, to a game) does not literally exist, all you are entitled to at best is your money back.
The reason is because reality deals us with events that can make it literally impossible to complete the so called 'promise' and frankly anyone who ever makes you a 'promise' you should learn sooner rather than later that sometimes its literally impossible to fulfill that promise. Doesnt matter if he took the money and put it in a big pile and burned it and then went out an hired a bunch of truck drivers as his development team. He can not make the money or the talent magically appear so the best you can hope for is your money back. if he cant make a game he cant make a game. peroid
I am not changing my position on this because I know I am right
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Many differing opinions on this, and laws depending on where you live. Where business promises are made and agreed too and especially when money exchanges hands promises take on different meanings. Many people get into trouble assuming things will be ok because of unforeseen circumstances and then they apologize and just go bankrupt.
You can be right. But the person that gave 100k to development and investment because of special private conversations with devs via PM or because of promises made during conversations that led to the exchange of money for services may feel differently. And this is another reason why it is so confusing to hear Portalarium say that if people don't continue to use the add-on store the game will not finish. It is disturbing to think that maybe the devs will just turn off the servers and say "we're sorry" one day because not enough people are using the add-on store now. They are three publishers strong, what are they going to do to see the game launch? They should not frighten their supporters like this, they don't have many left. They need to develop a strategy to get more people interested in the game.
What makes it even worse is that these companies are free to change the terms of their service. Star Citizen originally offered a refund if the game missed its 2012 projected launch date by more than 18 months but that was removed when it became apparent they would never hit that window.
It just seems like the entire games industry is stacked against the consumer.
1. Crowdfunded games that dramatically underestimate the amount of money or time needed
2. Game companies allowed to change their ToS when they want
3. Game companies allowed to advertise features on TV that they know will not be in the game (multiplayer in no mans sky)
4. Game companies allowed to dramatically change game play and take everything you have worked for over the last 200 hours and make it useless.
Things are so bad, I dont pre-order or crowdfund or buy an early access game until I can see actual game play videos from someone not affiliated with the developer. It is sad to see this industry evolve into what it has become.
If the money or the talent does not exist it cant be done. this is a very fundamental core unwavering reality here based on the material world. If I 'promise' you a house and then I get convicted of a crime and put in jail and all my money is gone it doesnt matter how much I promise its literally physically impossible. which is why the most you can hope for is your money back. they can not make the literally impossible happen.
What you think we went to the moon only because it was promissed? no because it was scientifically possible, if it was not scientifically possible no amount of promising would change that
god damnit!
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To the topic, I can see both points. When it comes to crowdfunding projects, don't expect anything regardless of what's being said, at the end of the day you're trying to fund someones dream, shit like this can go south really quickly even if you plan like high hell.
Saying that, it can get to a point where you're asking, "what else do you want from us". Based on the OPs info, they're not just going the CF route, they're asking money from all over the place. private investors, pledging, cash-shop, telethons and a second crowdfunding campaign, if after all that the games not making much progress and the focus of development seem more fixed on the case shop, then i'm not surprised by the reaction.
I think a fans support can only go so far and then when you back them into a corner after all this time pulling them along with release date and say, "the game will not be made if you don't use our cash shop", kinda makes you fell like, "wtf?"
Sean turns every thread he participates in as a soapbox for his agenda.
Sean turned it into a thread about Sean.
The rest of your post makes sense. However, let's be clear about your last paragraph. The only reason they aren't pushing the shop more is that everyone has been bled dry by Garriott and Co, not because Portalarium doesn't want to push the shop more. If they thought for a second the supporters would cough up additional cash via the shop, it would get loaded up with digital pixels faster than the speed of light.
~~ postlarval ~~
When defending No Mans Sky you said, and I quote:
If Sean Murray going on national TV and saying multiplayer will be in the game is NOT evidence that people "possibly" could have thought multiplayer was in the game then how can you use a simple PR video as "evidence" that renting could "possibly" be in the game?
I am not arguing about renting being in the game, I am simply pointing out how Sean flip flops on excuses and will use something to defend an argument one day but use the exact same thing to condemn something else the next day.
And why do this company postpone release all the time?
The one's that have the power to finance their game is developer's not their customer's. I have bought this game for 45$ during kickstarter and i know it is a risk it will never become a finished game and i am ok with that. If developer's fail then it is their fault and noone else. They had a poor system to fund their game.
The OP is suggesting what he sees as a contradiction.
buying the items is a choice: TRUE
but if you dont buy the items the game might not happen: TRUE
Is that fair? likely not but fairness cant change reality
make sense?
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
your own OP doesnt even suggest you read it that way originally.
please try not to paint an in game purchase of a video game as a 'threat' by the big bad developer against you. its rather unbecoming.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
That is not a threat its reality of life.
My request of you to not paint it as a 'threat' is because its a video game, not a major social injustice done against the world that needs the FBI to come in or something. Are you sure you want to be the guy who paints themselves as a victim of a developer like that?
Also, the number of publishers doesnt matter, how much money do those publishers have? what is the contract agreement regarding funding from those publishers?
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me