Sometimes when a game runs poorly its not because its designed for too good of a machine, its just because it was designed poorly and no matter how good a machine you get its going to run poorly.
As an example, you try running through Warsliks Woods in EQ1. Even 17 years later its a lag fest.
I run though Warsliks Woods with a toaster. Giant Fort is still one of my favorite low-level camps.
Did you manage to find a place to plug it in? The toaster i mean and what are you toasting....umm Don Rickles...pop tarts?
This is what i expect Pantheon to be...6/10 possibly a 7/10 By mmorpg scoring standards that is a 9.9/10 or better,by Gamespace standards that is a 11/10.
Graphics should be the least of anyone's worries,you should expect pretty much Vanguard type graphics,it is the game play and possibly some unique ideas we hope to see as being good enough to keep us interested long term.
I would also say that since we saw the exact same results with every rendition of EQ>VG that we should also expect to see some lag.
Currently, there is virtually nothing unique about this game. It's a legit EQ clone. This is a problem.
I know they say they're fine with being a niche, but this formula is old - and getting older - and most players are simply not attracted to this style of game.
The Players most attracted to it are getting older and many of them simply do not have the kind of time to dedicate to a game that something like Vanilla EQ required... I think people "excited" about this are forgetting that EQ actually got kind of "easy" a long time ago (around PoP timeframe) - if we're talking about "grind" and time investment to feel like you're making progress in the game.
Even many EQ players are likely to balk at this game, for that reason.
Yes, it's going to be like Early EQ... But EQ hasn't been like Early EQ for about a dozen years...
Many of the people who wanted that, quit when that game changed and likely aren't looking to go back to that - at this point in time.
If no other games are being made like an old game, by definition it's unique.
That people won't play it is just your unsubstantiated opinion. Based on what we've seen, people are not likely to keep buying into and remaining faithful to the current type of mmo, while EQ was very popular, especially for it's time, and had a rabidly faithful fanbase that still keeps it afloat to this day.
Were in the Castle with a group of six. Were doing ok and were at the entrance way door of the last boss. Only two players tackled this dungeon before, we're relying on their knowledge to lead us. Me being the healer Jack tells me to hang a left and stand behind the table when we open the door. Jack being the tank opens the door and goes right for the boss and we all follow into the room. I see the table on the left and go for it, but the table is obscure and twice the size it should be...... somehow I get stuck, I hit the A on my keyboard to spin around, now I'm getting a vision of the adjacent room to the left and can't move....... While this is going on Jack dies and Joe our caster is pined against the back wall running in place, and next to die....
Sometimes when a game runs poorly its not because its designed for too good of a machine, its just because it was designed poorly and no matter how good a machine you get its going to run poorly.
As an example, you try running through Warsliks Woods in EQ1. Even 17 years later its a lag fest.
I run though Warsliks Woods with a toaster. Giant Fort is still one of my favorite low-level camps.
Did you manage to find a place to plug it in? The toaster i mean and what are you toasting....umm Don Rickles...pop tarts?
This is what i expect Pantheon to be...6/10 possibly a 7/10 By mmorpg scoring standards that is a 9.9/10 or better,by Gamespace standards that is a 11/10.
Graphics should be the least of anyone's worries,you should expect pretty much Vanguard type graphics,it is the game play and possibly some unique ideas we hope to see as being good enough to keep us interested long term.
I would also say that since we saw the exact same results with every rendition of EQ>VG that we should also expect to see some lag.
Currently, there is virtually nothing unique about this game. It's a legit EQ clone. This is a problem.
I know they say they're fine with being a niche, but this formula is old - and getting older - and most players are simply not attracted to this style of game.
The Players most attracted to it are getting older and many of them simply do not have the kind of time to dedicate to a game that something like Vanilla EQ required... I think people "excited" about this are forgetting that EQ actually got kind of "easy" a long time ago (around PoP timeframe) - if we're talking about "grind" and time investment to feel like you're making progress in the game.
Even many EQ players are likely to balk at this game, for that reason.
Yes, it's going to be like Early EQ... But EQ hasn't been like Early EQ for about a dozen years...
Many of the people who wanted that, quit when that game changed and likely aren't looking to go back to that - at this point in time.
The new progression server for EQ, Agnarr, is still quite busy with all of us old folks who still enjoy this style of game.
Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do. Benjamin Franklin
Sometimes when a game runs poorly its not because its designed for too good of a machine, its just because it was designed poorly and no matter how good a machine you get its going to run poorly.
As an example, you try running through Warsliks Woods in EQ1. Even 17 years later its a lag fest.
I run though Warsliks Woods with a toaster. Giant Fort is still one of my favorite low-level camps.
Did you manage to find a place to plug it in? The toaster i mean and what are you toasting....umm Don Rickles...pop tarts?
This is what i expect Pantheon to be...6/10 possibly a 7/10 By mmorpg scoring standards that is a 9.9/10 or better,by Gamespace standards that is a 11/10.
Graphics should be the least of anyone's worries,you should expect pretty much Vanguard type graphics,it is the game play and possibly some unique ideas we hope to see as being good enough to keep us interested long term.
I would also say that since we saw the exact same results with every rendition of EQ>VG that we should also expect to see some lag.
Currently, there is virtually nothing unique about this game. It's a legit EQ clone. This is a problem.
I know they say they're fine with being a niche, but this formula is old - and getting older - and most players are simply not attracted to this style of game.
The Players most attracted to it are getting older and many of them simply do not have the kind of time to dedicate to a game that something like Vanilla EQ required... I think people "excited" about this are forgetting that EQ actually got kind of "easy" a long time ago (around PoP timeframe) - if we're talking about "grind" and time investment to feel like you're making progress in the game.
Even many EQ players are likely to balk at this game, for that reason.
Yes, it's going to be like Early EQ... But EQ hasn't been like Early EQ for about a dozen years...
Many of the people who wanted that, quit when that game changed and likely aren't looking to go back to that - at this point in time.
The new progression server for EQ, Agnarr, is still quite busy with all of us old folks who still enjoy this style of game.
Will they actually leave Agnarr to play Pantheon and if so how long will they really stay before returning to what they enjoy?
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
This, older, demographic tends to stick with games a lot longer than the millennials who make up a large portion of the gaming community...for reasons that we don't need to get into (that is a whole other conversation). I have seen multiple people on the Pantheon forum express that they feel like Pantheon is their last option to return to the style of play that they enjoy. These types of games don't get made very often.
This, older, demographic tends to stick with games a lot longer than the millennials who make up a large portion of the gaming community...for reasons that we don't need to get into (that is a whole other conversation). I have seen multiple people on the Pantheon forum express that they feel like Pantheon is their last option to return to the style of play that they enjoy. These types of games don't get made very often.
I really hope the Pantheon forum already has their 25,000 population that visit daily. That's the number VR claims that can be profitable for them, and the same number that I can't see where they are now and what they are doing. That's been a concern for me since day one. It's something I don't think anyone will know for certain until a year post-launch. I just know I can't be hemorrhaging cash to find out.
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
This, older, demographic tends to stick with games a lot longer than the millennials who make up a large portion of the gaming community...for reasons that we don't need to get into (that is a whole other conversation). I have seen multiple people on the Pantheon forum express that they feel like Pantheon is their last option to return to the style of play that they enjoy. These types of games don't get made very often.
If Pantheon isn't reasonably successful another game like it may never get made again.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I don't look at ideas as being old or new,only good or bad or some that need tweaking/improved.
When comes to graphics,i just laugh,wonder wtf people are talking about. Sit down with a pencil or pen and start drawing a character,then ask yourself what ART style your using ...yeah exactly.. lol.Cartoony looks cartoony because it is CHEAP graphics,has NOTHING to do with ART style,has more to do with colors,lighting,weather it shows detail or is very simple and cheap looking.
Do models have vertices/separation do extensions look realistic,or does the whole thing look like a shape with a few textures pasted onto it.Then you have lighting/shaders,blending on the flip side one flat pastel color<<<CHEAP.
I just want to login and not think every minute "man why did they do this like that" OR "that is dumb..geesh",the fewer times i am questioning design choices,the happier i will be.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
This, older, demographic tends to stick with games a lot longer than the millennials who make up a large portion of the gaming community...for reasons that we don't need to get into (that is a whole other conversation). I have seen multiple people on the Pantheon forum express that they feel like Pantheon is their last option to return to the style of play that they enjoy. These types of games don't get made very often.
When players make the content, it sticks. When it's handed to you like a bad cartoon, who will remember that.
Sometimes when a game runs poorly its not because its designed for too good of a machine, its just because it was designed poorly and no matter how good a machine you get its going to run poorly.
As an example, you try running through Warsliks Woods in EQ1. Even 17 years later its a lag fest.
I run though Warsliks Woods with a toaster. Giant Fort is still one of my favorite low-level camps.
Did you manage to find a place to plug it in? The toaster i mean and what are you toasting....umm Don Rickles...pop tarts?
This is what i expect Pantheon to be...6/10 possibly a 7/10 By mmorpg scoring standards that is a 9.9/10 or better,by Gamespace standards that is a 11/10.
Graphics should be the least of anyone's worries,you should expect pretty much Vanguard type graphics,it is the game play and possibly some unique ideas we hope to see as being good enough to keep us interested long term.
I would also say that since we saw the exact same results with every rendition of EQ>VG that we should also expect to see some lag.
Currently, there is virtually nothing unique about this game. It's a legit EQ clone. This is a problem.
I know they say they're fine with being a niche, but this formula is old - and getting older - and most players are simply not attracted to this style of game.
The Players most attracted to it are getting older and many of them simply do not have the kind of time to dedicate to a game that something like Vanilla EQ required... I think people "excited" about this are forgetting that EQ actually got kind of "easy" a long time ago (around PoP timeframe) - if we're talking about "grind" and time investment to feel like you're making progress in the game.
Even many EQ players are likely to balk at this game, for that reason.
Yes, it's going to be like Early EQ... But EQ hasn't been like Early EQ for about a dozen years...
Many of the people who wanted that, quit when that game changed and likely aren't looking to go back to that - at this point in time.
The new progression server for EQ, Agnarr, is still quite busy with all of us old folks who still enjoy this style of game.
Will they actually leave Agnarr to play Pantheon and if so how long will they really stay before returning to what they enjoy?
I will try Pantheon.
If the game is good, I will be a long term customer. If it is not, I will not.
Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do. Benjamin Franklin
This, older, demographic tends to stick with games a lot longer than the millennials who make up a large portion of the gaming community...for reasons that we don't need to get into (that is a whole other conversation). I have seen multiple people on the Pantheon forum express that they feel like Pantheon is their last option to return to the style of play that they enjoy. These types of games don't get made very often.
If Pantheon isn't reasonably successful another game like it may never get made again.
If we're being honest, another game like this won't ever be made again because a significant chunk of the core audience will be worm food by that time.
So unless this game is able to bridge the gap of interest between the pioneer MMOers and the newest generation of gamer, I doubt the old school philosophy sees any tune ups after this title is released.
This, older, demographic tends to stick with games a lot longer than the millennials who make up a large portion of the gaming community...for reasons that we don't need to get into (that is a whole other conversation). I have seen multiple people on the Pantheon forum express that they feel like Pantheon is their last option to return to the style of play that they enjoy. These types of games don't get made very often.
If Pantheon isn't reasonably successful another game like it may never get made again.
If we're being honest, another game like this won't ever be made again because a significant chunk of the core audience will be worm food by that time.
So unless this game is able to bridge the gap of interest between the pioneer MMOers and the newest generation of gamer, I doubt the old school philosophy sees any tune ups after this title is released.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
This, older, demographic tends to stick with games a lot longer than the millennials who make up a large portion of the gaming community...for reasons that we don't need to get into (that is a whole other conversation). I have seen multiple people on the Pantheon forum express that they feel like Pantheon is their last option to return to the style of play that they enjoy. These types of games don't get made very often.
If Pantheon isn't reasonably successful another game like it may never get made again.
Again, I'm the minority by saying it will be successful as long as they don't F$#@ it up.
I have no doubt that the model will be successful with not only the older mmo players, but also the newer. It was appealing to me when I was a kid, and I still gravitate back to it because it's truly a different animal and more akin to a virtual world than a video game. There will never be a time where an mmorpg of this kind won't be sought after, regardless of whether this one is successful.
Whether Pantheon succeeds will come down to execution, quality, and sticking to their guns.
There will never be a time where an mmorpg of this kind won't be sought after, regardless of whether this one is successful.
As circumstantial proof of this, before there were games like Everquest there were MUDs (Multi-User Dungeons). Brad McQuaid was once a MUD developer (according to wiki anyway). Believe it or not, there are still at least 708 active MUDs operating. See mudstats.com. The point being, there is still a market even for the games that preceded the predecessors of Pantheon. Good games stand the test of time.
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
I am playing Archeage right now, and many of the people I play with are looking forward to Pantheon. We are tired of the f2p/p2w model (I have great gear in the game, so not hating because I don't have gear). It is getting to be more and more of a cash grab, so besides being a old school type game, they said no to the p2w stuff, and having a sub. So for me that is win, win, win. If it is good, I doubt the majority go back to EQ sims as their main game, they may dabble, but it would probably be their new game. I love EQ/UO, I kept going back to UO, but I decided I didn't like the changes made to UO, and I left EQ when it stopped being EQ with instances everywhere and grinding some instance dungeon about 100 times to get the shadow knight some boots from that instance.... I really miss open world dungeons, large world, multiple starting cities. Their are aspects I didn't like about old school EQ, but no game is perfect, and they are less than the ones I don't like about newer f2p/p2w games.
I continue to shake my head at the salt on this forum. The notion that Pantheon cannot get 25,000 active subscribers is silly. Around 15,000 people have registered accounts on the development forum, 12-18 months away from launch, when almost no promotional efforts have been made. The idea that a large player base does not want this kind of game is also completely without basis; there is no recent market precedent to substantiate that position. There will be more than 25,000 subscribers at launch; the question, as Dullahan said, is whether the game is executed well enough and bug-free enough to keep and grow the initial player base.
Where does this salt and negativity come from? I would think anyone with an interest in this genre of game would try to be more constructive, not just sit there baselessly predicting a flop.
Re: the last comment, "Look under the hood," your car analogy is stupid.
Sometimes when a game runs poorly its not because its designed for too good of a machine, its just because it was designed poorly and no matter how good a machine you get its going to run poorly.
As an example, you try running through Warsliks Woods in EQ1. Even 17 years later its a lag fest.
I run though Warsliks Woods with a toaster. Giant Fort is still one of my favorite low-level camps.
Did you manage to find a place to plug it in? The toaster i mean and what are you toasting....umm Don Rickles...pop tarts?
This is what i expect Pantheon to be...6/10 possibly a 7/10 By mmorpg scoring standards that is a 9.9/10 or better,by Gamespace standards that is a 11/10.
Graphics should be the least of anyone's worries,you should expect pretty much Vanguard type graphics,it is the game play and possibly some unique ideas we hope to see as being good enough to keep us interested long term.
I would also say that since we saw the exact same results with every rendition of EQ>VG that we should also expect to see some lag.
Currently, there is virtually nothing unique about this game. It's a legit EQ clone. This is a problem.
I know they say they're fine with being a niche, but this formula is old - and getting older - and most players are simply not attracted to this style of game.
The Players most attracted to it are getting older and many of them simply do not have the kind of time to dedicate to a game that something like Vanilla EQ required... I think people "excited" about this are forgetting that EQ actually got kind of "easy" a long time ago (around PoP timeframe) - if we're talking about "grind" and time investment to feel like you're making progress in the game.
Even many EQ players are likely to balk at this game, for that reason.
Yes, it's going to be like Early EQ... But EQ hasn't been like Early EQ for about a dozen years...
Many of the people who wanted that, quit when that game changed and likely aren't looking to go back to that - at this point in time.
You yourself just said EQ hasn't been EQ for 12 years. Doesn't kind of make sense that Brad would like to bring back the old school EQ format to the genre? This genre has been slowly dying ever since WoW became the standard. Than it took an even deeper decent into oblivion with all the P2W Asian grinders.
When I say EQ hasn't been EQ, I mean the game has evolved and isn't a carbon copy of what it was on release... It evolved because players wanted evolution, not because Verant/SOE decided to butcher it. EQ is still EQ. It still plays like EQ. The fact that it has evolved over the past [almost] 20 years doesn't change that. It was necessary. WoW probably took half of EQ's player base, because it's was an evolution of the EQ formula.
Designing a modern MMORPG based off of Pre-Expansion EQ gameplay sort of misses the point. How many players do they expect to get for that, especially with a subscription... MMORPGs aren't exactly cheap to develop and run.
Any player with an IQ above 60 should be questioning the viability of such a game. On the contrary, all we see here (for the most part) is defense and blind hype.
No, I don't want to go back to Pre-Expansion EQ gameplay.
WoW is the "standard" because it's the only game that has been able to deliver good gameplay, polish, great performance on "average hardware," and incorporate amazing lore. It doesn't help that Blizzard's content development teams are really good, and they release a lot of content - even between Expansions. This makes WoW the default, reliable, non-volatile, safe choice for a lot of people.
Other games are decent. FFXIV is decent, but the gameplay (combat, etc.) is molasses-paced and it bores a lot of people. Do a quick Google Search for it.
Games like ESO were overhyped and aren't nearly as good as their fanboys make it out to be. We see this whenever a new game releases.
The reason why WoW is where it is, is because the developers focused on developing a great product, and less on Public Relations.
And I'm not sure how any game that is modeling itself after Pre-Expansion EQ can be compared favorably to Asian Grinders in terms of time sink. Maybe you're write about the P2W part, but the Asian Grinders got that formula from ... EverQuest.
So excuse me while I chuckle at that bit for a minute.
I continue to shake my head at the salt on this forum. The notion that Pantheon cannot get 25,000 active subscribers is silly. Around 15,000 people have registered accounts on the development forum, 12-18 months away from launch, when almost no promotional efforts have been made. The idea that a large player base does not want this kind of game is also completely without basis; there is no recent market precedent to substantiate that position. There will be more than 25,000 subscribers at launch; the question, as Dullahan said, is whether the game is executed well enough and bug-free enough to keep and grow the initial player base.
Where does this salt and negativity come from? I would think anyone with an interest in this genre of game would try to be more constructive, not just sit there baselessly predicting a flop.
Re: the last comment, "Look under the hood," your car analogy is stupid.
The issue with MMORPGs isn't that you need to "get x amount of customers," it's that you have to retain them.
MMORPGs aren't like single player RPGs. You're developing a game that requires players to remain in order to be viable. Selling boxes to players here and there after the initial rush isn't enough - they may not even stay beyond the first 30 days.
I'm pretty sure Warhammer Online, Vanguard: SoH, Age of Conan, Elder Scrolls Online, EverQuest II, Rift, and a plethora of other games got 15,000+ players on release. Did you see how many servers many games have to open up on release, because of the massive influx of players.
The issue those games faced was the massive drop-off months after the game released. If you can't make a [decent] profit off the game, then what is the point?
Games have largely attempted to counter this with a change in business model. If you cannot get enough subscribers to stay put, then you need to increase the amount of cash you get out of the players that do.
I actually think Square Enix did the smart thing by putting their game on both console and PC, and then allowing them to play on the same server. This made the game very accessible to players, similar to WoW's low system requirements (Blizzard does this in all of their games - D3 plays better than PoE despite having better graphics, and Overwatch runs at 60+ FPS on low end gaming hardware at 60+ FPS and high settings).
Comments
I know they say they're fine with being a niche, but this formula is old - and getting older - and most players are simply not attracted to this style of game.
The Players most attracted to it are getting older and many of them simply do not have the kind of time to dedicate to a game that something like Vanilla EQ required... I think people "excited" about this are forgetting that EQ actually got kind of "easy" a long time ago (around PoP timeframe) - if we're talking about "grind" and time investment to feel like you're making progress in the game.
Even many EQ players are likely to balk at this game, for that reason.
Yes, it's going to be like Early EQ... But EQ hasn't been like Early EQ for about a dozen years...
Many of the people who wanted that, quit when that game changed and likely aren't looking to go back to that - at this point in time.
That people won't play it is just your unsubstantiated opinion. Based on what we've seen, people are not likely to keep buying into and remaining faithful to the current type of mmo, while EQ was very popular, especially for it's time, and had a rabidly faithful fanbase that still keeps it afloat to this day.
But hay, the graphics are nice !!!
Remember this !
Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do.
Benjamin Franklin
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I have seen multiple people on the Pantheon forum express that they feel like Pantheon is their last option to return to the style of play that they enjoy. These types of games don't get made very often.
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
When comes to graphics,i just laugh,wonder wtf people are talking about.
Sit down with a pencil or pen and start drawing a character,then ask yourself what ART style your using ...yeah exactly.. lol.Cartoony looks cartoony because it is CHEAP graphics,has NOTHING to do with ART style,has more to do with colors,lighting,weather it shows detail or is very simple and cheap looking.
Do models have vertices/separation do extensions look realistic,or does the whole thing look like a shape with a few textures pasted onto it.Then you have lighting/shaders,blending on the flip side one flat pastel color<<<CHEAP.
I just want to login and not think every minute "man why did they do this like that" OR "that is dumb..geesh",the fewer times i am questioning design choices,the happier i will be.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
When players make the content, it sticks. When it's handed to you like a bad cartoon, who will remember that.
I will try Pantheon.
If the game is good, I will be a long term customer. If it is not, I will not.
Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do.
Benjamin Franklin
So unless this game is able to bridge the gap of interest between the pioneer MMOers and the newest generation of gamer, I doubt the old school philosophy sees any tune ups after this title is released.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Again, I'm the minority by saying it will be successful as long as they don't F$#@ it up.
I'm very very concerned about the coding
Whether Pantheon succeeds will come down to execution, quality, and sticking to their guns.
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
Watch the latest video again...... This time, don't just look at the pretty car..... Look under the hood.
Always go with a teenager to shop for a car. Never let them go alone !!!
Where does this salt and negativity come from? I would think anyone with an interest in this genre of game would try to be more constructive, not just sit there baselessly predicting a flop.
Re: the last comment, "Look under the hood," your car analogy is stupid.
When I say EQ hasn't been EQ, I mean the game has evolved and isn't a carbon copy of what it was on release... It evolved because players wanted evolution, not because Verant/SOE decided to butcher it. EQ is still EQ. It still plays like EQ. The fact that it has evolved over the past [almost] 20 years doesn't change that. It was necessary. WoW probably took half of EQ's player base, because it's was an evolution of the EQ formula.
Designing a modern MMORPG based off of Pre-Expansion EQ gameplay sort of misses the point. How many players do they expect to get for that, especially with a subscription... MMORPGs aren't exactly cheap to develop and run.
Any player with an IQ above 60 should be questioning the viability of such a game. On the contrary, all we see here (for the most part) is defense and blind hype.
No, I don't want to go back to Pre-Expansion EQ gameplay.
WoW is the "standard" because it's the only game that has been able to deliver good gameplay, polish, great performance on "average hardware," and incorporate amazing lore. It doesn't help that Blizzard's content development teams are really good, and they release a lot of content - even between Expansions. This makes WoW the default, reliable, non-volatile, safe choice for a lot of people.
Other games are decent. FFXIV is decent, but the gameplay (combat, etc.) is molasses-paced and it bores a lot of people. Do a quick Google Search for it.
Games like ESO were overhyped and aren't nearly as good as their fanboys make it out to be. We see this whenever a new game releases.
The reason why WoW is where it is, is because the developers focused on developing a great product, and less on Public Relations.
And I'm not sure how any game that is modeling itself after Pre-Expansion EQ can be compared favorably to Asian Grinders in terms of time sink. Maybe you're write about the P2W part, but the Asian Grinders got that formula from ... EverQuest.
So excuse me while I chuckle at that bit for a minute.
The issue with MMORPGs isn't that you need to "get x amount of customers," it's that you have to retain them.
MMORPGs aren't like single player RPGs. You're developing a game that requires players to remain in order to be viable. Selling boxes to players here and there after the initial rush isn't enough - they may not even stay beyond the first 30 days.
I'm pretty sure Warhammer Online, Vanguard: SoH, Age of Conan, Elder Scrolls Online, EverQuest II, Rift, and a plethora of other games got 15,000+ players on release. Did you see how many servers many games have to open up on release, because of the massive influx of players.
The issue those games faced was the massive drop-off months after the game released. If you can't make a [decent] profit off the game, then what is the point?
Games have largely attempted to counter this with a change in business model. If you cannot get enough subscribers to stay put, then you need to increase the amount of cash you get out of the players that do.
I actually think Square Enix did the smart thing by putting their game on both console and PC, and then allowing them to play on the same server. This made the game very accessible to players, similar to WoW's low system requirements (Blizzard does this in all of their games - D3 plays better than PoE despite having better graphics, and Overwatch runs at 60+ FPS on low end gaming hardware at 60+ FPS and high settings).