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If all mmo's were diffacult, would you enjoy them more ?

delete5230delete5230 Member EpicPosts: 5,728
A few in-development mmos will be released within the next few years with the promise higher difficulty gameplay.  They seem to have a following mainly because of this feature. 

What would happen if all the latest ( modern) mmos raised difficulty to a far greater level ? 



For me this would simply encourage community, and make abilities count...... WoW, what a feature :)
Excession
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Comments

  • WizardryWizardry Member LegendaryPosts: 16,332
    edited October 2017
    It still depends on the overall game design for me,difficulty will not make a bad game good.

    One of my biggest turnoffs is difficult UI,it is cumbersome or too many menus,i will not play it no matter how good the game is.Point being,it has to be the entire package,great UI,great gameplay,well designed and preferably open world not linear paths of unlocks.

    I do not  want super difficult,i have seen the results of that and they always play badly or fake/unrealistic.
    A couple examples of difficult that turn me off.
    1 The red carpet idea from FFXIV done in a few other games,i do not consider dodging markers on the ground as good gameplay.
    2 Hearthstone story gameplay.Blizzard has chosen to  rather than create real decks for constructive/difficult challenges,they just cheat the entire game design and make decks that are not even possible in the game,cheat mechanics are not good game design.

    Another sign i have seen throughout gaming is combat made difficult by removing player abilities/spells,in other words the Bosses are immune to pretty much everything meaningful,again a LAZY way of creating difficulty.The other common trend in difficult is to think that a 24 man raid is the way to make difficult,WRONG,having access to several healers is not harder than 1 healer if dies your whole group is dead,raiding is actually an easier form of combat.


    mrputtsOctagon7711Taneon

    Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.

  • ExcessionExcession Member RarePosts: 709
    edited October 2017
    Define "difficult" with regards to MMORPG gameplay.
    KyleranOctagon7711VelifaxAndemon

    A creative person is motivated by the desire to achieve, not the desire to beat others.

  • delete5230delete5230 Member EpicPosts: 5,728
    Excession said:
    Define "difficult" with regards to MMORPG gameplay.

    I don't define anything, use your imagination. 
    ExcessionKyleranGdemamiXarkoVelifaxAndemon
  • DMKanoDMKano Member LegendaryPosts: 20,927
    There are no difficult MMOs, there never were any that were difficult.

    Time investment does not mean difficult.

    What is difficult - getting 2 PHDs at the same time example -  in physics and molecular biology.

    Or try learning a difficult language like Icelandic (for an english speaker it is difficult)


    ExcessionAlbatroesKyleranimmodiumpostlarvalJean-Luc_PicardTorvalTokkenAndemonBeyorn
  • TofkeTofke Member UncommonPosts: 338
    No, just as with other games I like a good diverse range. Sometimes I feel like being challenged, other times I feel like relaxing. Most MMO's offer different difficulties inside their game so that's fine... though some could do better on the challenging bits being challenging.

    (Instead of nitpicking like the Kano, I opted to understand what you were going for ;p)
  • AlbatroesAlbatroes Member LegendaryPosts: 6,434
    DMKano said:
    There are no difficult MMOs, there never were any that were difficult.

    Time investment does not mean difficult.

    What is difficult - getting 2 PHDs at the same time example -  in physics and molecular biology.

    Or try learning a difficult language like Icelandic (for an english speaker it is difficult)


    I'm with Kano on this one. It was just more that the things you invested in the past had a longer impact on what you did, not really about the difficulty of the content. I played FFXI for a very long and the game wasn't really difficult, but it did require you actually knew how your job (class) worked, that you had skills up (not just having the abilities but also that you had skills in order to effectively use said abilities, like dark mage skill in order to stun and not get resisted etc), and that you could actually pay attention to your said job. It wasn't so much about this one man army system that we have in games today where tanks tanked, healers healed, and dps just dps'd. You were your class first and not a role. Sometimes White Mages had to enfeeble, paladins had to cure others to hold threat, black mages could off heal, etc, whatever you comp was at the time and what the fight required. Also you kind of had to be social and learn how to not troll people because there wasn't all this server hopping and instance finder stuff. You had to know and remember people on your server and more importantly people would remember you.
  • ScorchienScorchien Member LegendaryPosts: 6,842
    DMKano said:
    There are no difficult MMOs, there never were any that were difficult.

    Time investment does not mean difficult.

    What is difficult - getting 2 PHDs at the same time example -  in physics and molecular biology.

    Or try learning a difficult language like Icelandic (for an english speaker it is difficult)


    ohh BS .. tell ya what go log into UO .. Skill up whatever you want then go take on a Paragon Lich Lord ...

      If you are not prepared and execute perfectly you will be one shot dead and looted .. Its Difficult to pull off and players have many deaths learning to do something like this and still more failures because of the difficulty after they know how .. As on intangible creeps in one slip up and your Dead..

      even regular Lich Lords will kill you qwikly if you slip up ..

      Difficulty in games is there if you challenge yourself and take challenges that seem unachievable , but if you are the type of player that max lvls then enjoys going in to low -mid areas and carpet bombing kittens you would not understand challenging yourself ... That type of player is looking for the path of least resistance not challenge and difficulty ...
    Rhoklawkjempff
  • NeanderthalNeanderthal Member RarePosts: 1,795

    Excession said:
    Define "difficult" with regards to MMORPG gameplay.

    I don't define anything, use your imagination. 

    Ok then, I imagine that what  you meant by "difficulty" was if a game required you to play with a cat walking back and forth across your keyboard.  So, no, I don't see how this would promote community or make abilities count more.  It might require greater hand/eye coordination and faster reflexes though.

  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 33,622
    edited October 2017
    Excession said:
    Define "difficult" with regards to MMORPG gameplay.

    I don't define anything, use your imagination. 
    Then there is no question to discuss, as I'm not sure what you mean.

    I never considered anything in a MMO to be particularly difficult if you are referring to actual gameplay.

    Sure, complicated raids force you to learn the "dance steps" and pay close attention to orders, and perhaps even some study beforehand,  but with enough practice, preparation, and most importantly perseverance I've never failed to complete content. 

    Getting a group of 40 plus people together willing to do all of the above,  that was sometimes difficult, but I was never the raid leader,  so someone else's problem.

    Being a guild leader, that was really difficult, spent far too much time trying to organize and manage things, and dealing with people personality issues was really challenging,  so I don't do that anymore.

    Getting into a group as a steather was very difficult in DAOC as it brought no real utility outside of raw DPS,  which in PVE was actually bad if it drew aggro from the tank. Solved that by being very social and helping other stealthers level up when on my group friendly characters.

    Some classes were difficult to solo in, but the fix was easy,  1st level to cap a necromancer or other strong solo class, then dual box and power level the feeb class to cap in your favorite grinding spot. Toss in a third account to run a buff bot for extra ease and convenience.

    So again I ask, what did you mean by difficult? 


    Excession

    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing POE at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • AlbatroesAlbatroes Member LegendaryPosts: 6,434
    edited October 2017
    Scorchien said:
    DMKano said:
    There are no difficult MMOs, there never were any that were difficult.

    Time investment does not mean difficult.

    What is difficult - getting 2 PHDs at the same time example -  in physics and molecular biology.

    Or try learning a difficult language like Icelandic (for an english speaker it is difficult)


    ohh BS .. tell ya what go log into UO .. Skill up whatever you want then go take on a Paragon Lich Lord ...

      If you are not prepared and execute perfectly you will be one shot dead and looted .. Its Difficult to pull off and players have many deaths learning to do something like this and still more failures because of the difficulty after they know how .. As on intangible creeps in one slip up and your Dead..

      even regular Lich Lords will kill you qwikly if you slip up ..

      Difficulty in games is there if you challenge yourself and take challenges that seem unachievable , but if you are the type of player that max lvls then enjoys going in to low -mid areas and carpet bombing kittens you would not understand challenging yourself ... That type of player is looking for the path of least resistance not challenge and difficulty ...
    Personally, I don't think you can rate a mmorpg's difficult on the same scale of an action game with different modes, with one shot kills etc, mainly because there's a lot more variables such as latency, server stability, hardware, etc. There were plenty of "ruthless" things in FFXI, like if you went into an instanced area without re-raise (similar to shaman's reincarnation but there were various to get it like via items/spells/etc) then you locked out until your timer was ready again if you wiped. There were also mobs that had en-death/en-doom (meaning pretty much you were dead if they physically hit you). To me, realistic difficulty would be having to interrupt a cast or you get greeted with an uncleansable debuff, or having to keep a target debuffed in order to control its attack speed because most "boss fights" had some form of en-debuff. Plenty of mmorpgs today use "one-shot" tactics to "amplify" difficulty, but it really does require a perfect storm of factors for it to be realistically difficult.

    I will say that one of the things about difficulty in games too today is that it really doesn't matter in the long term, simply because there's no fear of getting left behind. Most devs create content that elevates the floor of the game at the same time the ceiling is raised, so no one really is that much higher than anyone else regardless of time investment. I dont know about others, but I've never liked busting my butt in the most difficult content only to see someone marginally inferior with minimal effort. Thus, I dont really participate in high end content anymore in most games because its not worth it if all I have to do is just wait.
  • Azaron_NightbladeAzaron_Nightblade Member EpicPosts: 4,688
    edited October 2017
    I imagine that by "difficult", he means tedious. No fast leveling, and every mob you fight is an epic battle. You really gotta "earn" those levels.

    Which would be a boring as hell game to me. Challenging encounters should be reserved for boss fights and group content.
    ExcessiongunklackerAndemon

    My SWTOR referral link for those wanting to give the game a try. (Newbies get a welcome package while returning players get a few account upgrades to help with their preferred status.)

    https://www.ashesofcreation.com/ref/Callaron/

  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 33,622
    edited October 2017

    Excession said:
    Define "difficult" with regards to MMORPG gameplay.

    I don't define anything, use your imagination. 

    Ok then, I imagine that what  you meant by "difficulty" was if a game required you to play with a cat walking back and forth across your keyboard.  So, no, I don't see how this would promote community or make abilities count more.  It might require greater hand/eye coordination and faster reflexes though.

    My cats do that all the time (I have 4), all love to walk across my laptop or keyboard, one manages to regularly step on the power button and start the shutdown sequence when she wants attention. 

    Staying awake while in my recliner can be very difficult, number one cause of death in games for me.

    Wife aggro has been a huge challenge at times, same with those other pesky family members, children I think they are called. Thank heavens they all grew up and moved out, but wife is still there. (Almost 35 years now)   ;)


    ExcessionCecropiaZombieCatblastermaster

    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing POE at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • ScorchienScorchien Member LegendaryPosts: 6,842
    edited October 2017
    Albatroes said:
    Scorchien said:
    DMKano said:
    There are no difficult MMOs, there never were any that were difficult.

    Time investment does not mean difficult.

    What is difficult - getting 2 PHDs at the same time example -  in physics and molecular biology.

    Or try learning a difficult language like Icelandic (for an english speaker it is difficult)


    ohh BS .. tell ya what go log into UO .. Skill up whatever you want then go take on a Paragon Lich Lord ...

      If you are not prepared and execute perfectly you will be one shot dead and looted .. Its Difficult to pull off and players have many deaths learning to do something like this and still more failures because of the difficulty after they know how .. As on intangible creeps in one slip up and your Dead..

      even regular Lich Lords will kill you qwikly if you slip up ..

      Difficulty in games is there if you challenge yourself and take challenges that seem unachievable , but if you are the type of player that max lvls then enjoys going in to low -mid areas and carpet bombing kittens you would not understand challenging yourself ... That type of player is looking for the path of least resistance not challenge and difficulty ...
    Personally, I don't think you can rate a mmorpg's difficult on the same scale of an action game with different modes, with one shot kills etc, mainly because there's a lot more variables such as latency, server stability, hardware, etc. There were plenty of "ruthless" things in FFXI, like if you went into an instanced area without re-raise (similar to shaman's reincarnation but there were various to get it like via items/spells/etc) then you locked out until your timer was ready again if you wiped. There were also mobs that had en-death/en-doom (meaning pretty much you were dead if they physically hit you). To me, realistic difficulty would be having to interrupt a cast or you get greeted with an uncleansable debuff, or having to keep a target debuffed in order to control its attack speed because most "boss fights" had some form of en-debuff. Plenty of mmorpgs today use "one-shot" tactics to "amplify" difficulty, but it really does require a perfect storm of factors for it to be realistically difficult.

    I will say that one of the things about difficulty in games too today is that it really doesn't matter in the long term, simply because there's no fear of getting left behind. Most devs create content that elevates the floor of the game at the same time the ceiling is raised, so no one really is that much higher than anyone else regardless of time investment. I dont know about others, but I've never liked busting my butt in the most difficult content only to see someone marginally inferior with minimal effort. Thus, I dont really participate in high end content anymore in most games because its not worth it if all I have to do is just wait.
    "mainly because there's a lot more variables such as latency, server stability, hardware"


    These are all Non Factors for most gamers these days , it was in 1999 ...No longer an issue or factor for the most part

    "
      In a fight like the one i used as an ex. you had better be prepared to counter Many many different attacks and situations and you had better be ready to do it in a split second ... And no performance is no longer in this discussion ,, Its just skill and difficulty of encounter.. Not time invested .. you can have all 20 years in UO and still not possess the skill to ovbercome some of the diffcult challenges it holds.. this is an ex .. Other games hold equal challenges .. you just need to Chalenge yourself..
  • anemoanemo Member RarePosts: 1,722
    I have a difficult game that I like:  Screeps.    It's just a simple matter of AI programming, mind the skill gap (though devs have actually done quite well in letting simpler/naive systems work so it's not at the insane deep end level).   Frankly I don't get more "joy"/"fun"/"entanglement" out of the game compared to any other MMO that I liked.  

    You could also say that the game lacks some really good things for enjoyment to support it's difficulty: 
    • there are no interesting NPCs to interact with
    •  no story
    •  player trade takes somewhat of a back seat
    •  gameplay is slow to support "automation"/"complexity" of 24/7 online with hundreds of thousands of unique entities
    •  the game can only support a couple of devs so development is SLOW.   Seriously even if they capture 100% of people willing to play the game, still a small player base.   (seriously I want 'hero' units, but the devs needed to take a detour to improve the backend for faster gameplay).

    Practice doesn't make perfect, practice makes permanent.

    "At one point technology meant making tech that could get to the moon, now it means making tech that could get you a taxi."

  • HorusraHorusra Member EpicPosts: 4,084
    Scorchien said:
    DMKano said:
    There are no difficult MMOs, there never were any that were difficult.

    Time investment does not mean difficult.

    What is difficult - getting 2 PHDs at the same time example -  in physics and molecular biology.

    Or try learning a difficult language like Icelandic (for an english speaker it is difficult)


    ohh BS .. tell ya what go log into UO .. Skill up whatever you want then go take on a Paragon Lich Lord ...

      If you are not prepared and execute perfectly you will be one shot dead and looted .. Its Difficult to pull off and players have many deaths learning to do something like this and still more failures because of the difficulty after they know how .. As on intangible creeps in one slip up and your Dead..

      even regular Lich Lords will kill you qwikly if you slip up ..

      Difficulty in games is there if you challenge yourself and take challenges that seem unachievable , but if you are the type of player that max lvls then enjoys going in to low -mid areas and carpet bombing kittens you would not understand challenging yourself ... That type of player is looking for the path of least resistance not challenge and difficulty ...

    too progress in the game do you have to kill the Paragon Lich Lord...if not the MMORPG as a whole is not difficult.  It only has a difficult part.
  • ScorchienScorchien Member LegendaryPosts: 6,842
    Horusra said:
    Scorchien said:
    DMKano said:
    There are no difficult MMOs, there never were any that were difficult.

    Time investment does not mean difficult.

    What is difficult - getting 2 PHDs at the same time example -  in physics and molecular biology.

    Or try learning a difficult language like Icelandic (for an english speaker it is difficult)


    ohh BS .. tell ya what go log into UO .. Skill up whatever you want then go take on a Paragon Lich Lord ...

      If you are not prepared and execute perfectly you will be one shot dead and looted .. Its Difficult to pull off and players have many deaths learning to do something like this and still more failures because of the difficulty after they know how .. As on intangible creeps in one slip up and your Dead..

      even regular Lich Lords will kill you qwikly if you slip up ..

      Difficulty in games is there if you challenge yourself and take challenges that seem unachievable , but if you are the type of player that max lvls then enjoys going in to low -mid areas and carpet bombing kittens you would not understand challenging yourself ... That type of player is looking for the path of least resistance not challenge and difficulty ...

    too progress in the game do you have to kill the Paragon Lich Lord...if not the MMORPG as a whole is not difficult.  It only has a difficult part.
    silly semantics ................ not applicable
  • HorusraHorusra Member EpicPosts: 4,084
    Scorchien said:
    Horusra said:
    Scorchien said:
    DMKano said:
    There are no difficult MMOs, there never were any that were difficult.

    Time investment does not mean difficult.

    What is difficult - getting 2 PHDs at the same time example -  in physics and molecular biology.

    Or try learning a difficult language like Icelandic (for an english speaker it is difficult)


    ohh BS .. tell ya what go log into UO .. Skill up whatever you want then go take on a Paragon Lich Lord ...

      If you are not prepared and execute perfectly you will be one shot dead and looted .. Its Difficult to pull off and players have many deaths learning to do something like this and still more failures because of the difficulty after they know how .. As on intangible creeps in one slip up and your Dead..

      even regular Lich Lords will kill you qwikly if you slip up ..

      Difficulty in games is there if you challenge yourself and take challenges that seem unachievable , but if you are the type of player that max lvls then enjoys going in to low -mid areas and carpet bombing kittens you would not understand challenging yourself ... That type of player is looking for the path of least resistance not challenge and difficulty ...

    too progress in the game do you have to kill the Paragon Lich Lord...if not the MMORPG as a whole is not difficult.  It only has a difficult part.
    silly semantics ................ not applica
    by your standards WoW is one of the most difficult MMORPG's because of Mythic Raids.
    Kyleran
  • DMKanoDMKano Member LegendaryPosts: 20,927
    edited October 2017
    Scorchien said:
    DMKano said:
    There are no difficult MMOs, there never were any that were difficult.

    Time investment does not mean difficult.

    What is difficult - getting 2 PHDs at the same time example -  in physics and molecular biology.

    Or try learning a difficult language like Icelandic (for an english speaker it is difficult)


    ohh BS .. tell ya what go log into UO .. Skill up whatever you want then go take on a Paragon Lich Lord ...

      If you are not prepared and execute perfectly you will be one shot dead and looted .. Its Difficult to pull off and players have many deaths learning to do something like this and still more failures because of the difficulty after they know how .. As on intangible creeps in one slip up and your Dead..

      even regular Lich Lords will kill you qwikly if you slip up ..

      Difficulty in games is there if you challenge yourself and take challenges that seem unachievable , but if you are the type of player that max lvls then enjoys going in to low -mid areas and carpet bombing kittens you would not understand challenging yourself ... That type of player is looking for the path of least resistance not challenge and difficulty ...


    But thats not how the game is played nor designed, you are creating artificial challenge for yourself. Like trying to solo raid content - its not designed to be done that way, once you have a properly geared full raid party - its not difficult

    Is there anything that can be done to make it easy - like better gear, a full party, more healers, or better strategy - if the answer is YES - it is not difficult, you are just choosing to make it harder than what it is.


    Things that are truly difficult in life dont have an "easy way" or an easy path, there is nothing that suddenly trivializes them.

    So my point stands - MMOs are not difficult, if they were, they would fail miserably.


    Post edited by DMKano on
    KyleranimmodiumBeyorn
  • AdoniAdoni Member UncommonPosts: 384
    I recently left FFXIV due to it being harder than what I am use too. It was the solo quest for the jobs and the main story line. Though I do not consider it a bad game at all. I ended up leaving due to it.

    image
  • TheocritusTheocritus Member EpicPosts: 7,002
    I found in many games they were as easy or as difficult as I wanted them to be.....Lets say you are level 10....You can grind level 5 mobs all day without breaking a sweat...sure it takes a little longer to level but its easy, or you could try to take on level 20s where if you win at all it takes all you have to do it....Most people never go that route...If they do its because they have something like Kyleran said where they have another toon leveling them or a major buffbot/healer that helps them win.....Also in MMOs, Players try to find the route that maximizes XP but is the path of least resistance.....If you factor in that most games have questing that is easy leveling then that takes away difficulty too.
  • ScorchienScorchien Member LegendaryPosts: 6,842
    edited October 2017
    DMKano said:
    Scorchien said:
    DMKano said:
    There are no difficult MMOs, there never were any that were difficult.

    Time investment does not mean difficult.

    What is difficult - getting 2 PHDs at the same time example -  in physics and molecular biology.

    Or try learning a difficult language like Icelandic (for an english speaker it is difficult)


    ohh BS .. tell ya what go log into UO .. Skill up whatever you want then go take on a Paragon Lich Lord ...

      If you are not prepared and execute perfectly you will be one shot dead and looted .. Its Difficult to pull off and players have many deaths learning to do something like this and still more failures because of the difficulty after they know how .. As on intangible creeps in one slip up and your Dead..

      even regular Lich Lords will kill you qwikly if you slip up ..

      Difficulty in games is there if you challenge yourself and take challenges that seem unachievable , but if you are the type of player that max lvls then enjoys going in to low -mid areas and carpet bombing kittens you would not understand challenging yourself ... That type of player is looking for the path of least resistance not challenge and difficulty ...


    But thats not how the game is played nor designed, you are creating artificial challenge for yourself. Like trying to solo raid content - its not designed to be done that way, once you have a properly geared full raid party - its not difficult

    Things that are truly difficult in life dont have an "easy way" or an easy path, there is nothing that suddenly trivializes them.

    So my point stands - MMOs are not difficult, if they were, they would fail miserably.


    Well that point ill concede , But im the sort of player that will look for those difficult challenges . Thats where i have the most fun ... So the difficult challenges are still there .. But you are right . you must seek it out and attempt it alone or lesser groups ... But ill also add that in some games now these challenges are not artificial as the devs know it can be achieved by the top 3 % and implement Acheivements/Titles /rewards for surmounting the most difficult challenges Solo/Small group/Speed etc .. So working as intended ..Not artificial

    And i try not to apply real life to gameing it always sounds silly to me ..

    Ive already won at Life .. Gaming and raising my 6 year old are the only challenges atm :)
    Post edited by Scorchien on
  • DMKanoDMKano Member LegendaryPosts: 20,927
    edited October 2017
    I found in many games they were as easy or as difficult as I wanted them to be.....Lets say you are level 10....You can grind level 5 mobs all day without breaking a sweat...sure it takes a little longer to level but its easy, or you could try to take on level 20s where if you win at all it takes all you have to do it....Most people never go that route...If they do its because they have something like Kyleran said where they have another toon leveling them or a major buffbot/healer that helps them win.....Also in MMOs, Players try to find the route that maximizes XP but is the path of least resistance.....If you factor in that most games have questing that is easy leveling then that takes away difficulty too.
    All of that is true. The thing is this is artificial difficulty players impose on themselves.

    In contrast - truly difficult things in life like
    Learning icelandic (for a native english speaker) is diffcult no matter what. There is no easy way about it, no shortcuts or anything that will make it easy. Its going to be a bitch no matter what you do and what kind of help you get.


    postlarval
  • DMKanoDMKano Member LegendaryPosts: 20,927
    anemo said:
    I have a difficult game that I like:  Screeps.    It's just a simple matter of AI programming, mind the skill gap (though devs have actually done quite well in letting simpler/naive systems work so it's not at the insane deep end level).   Frankly I don't get more "joy"/"fun"/"entanglement" out of the game compared to any other MMO that I liked.  

    You could also say that the game lacks some really good things for enjoyment to support it's difficulty: 
    • there are no interesting NPCs to interact with
    •  no story
    •  player trade takes somewhat of a back seat
    •  gameplay is slow to support "automation"/"complexity" of 24/7 online with hundreds of thousands of unique entities
    •  the game can only support a couple of devs so development is SLOW.   Seriously even if they capture 100% of people willing to play the game, still a small player base.   (seriously I want 'hero' units, but the devs needed to take a detour to improve the backend for faster gameplay).

    Screeps is awesome - highly underrated. Love that game. It is more challenging than most games yes - but I still dont consider so majorly challenging to call it difficult. 

    Just my 2c
  • HorusraHorusra Member EpicPosts: 4,084
    DMKano said:
    I found in many games they were as easy or as difficult as I wanted them to be.....Lets say you are level 10....You can grind level 5 mobs all day without breaking a sweat...sure it takes a little longer to level but its easy, or you could try to take on level 20s where if you win at all it takes all you have to do it....Most people never go that route...If they do its because they have something like Kyleran said where they have another toon leveling them or a major buffbot/healer that helps them win.....Also in MMOs, Players try to find the route that maximizes XP but is the path of least resistance.....If you factor in that most games have questing that is easy leveling then that takes away difficulty too.
    All of that is true. The thing is this is artificial difficulty players impose on themselves.

    In contrast - truly difficult things in life like
    Learning icelandic (for a native english speaker) is diffcult no matter what. There is no easy way about it, no shortcuts or anything that will make it easy. Its going to be a bitch no matter what you do and what kind of help you get.



    sleep learning  >:)
  • DMKanoDMKano Member LegendaryPosts: 20,927
    Horusra said:
    DMKano said:
    I found in many games they were as easy or as difficult as I wanted them to be.....Lets say you are level 10....You can grind level 5 mobs all day without breaking a sweat...sure it takes a little longer to level but its easy, or you could try to take on level 20s where if you win at all it takes all you have to do it....Most people never go that route...If they do its because they have something like Kyleran said where they have another toon leveling them or a major buffbot/healer that helps them win.....Also in MMOs, Players try to find the route that maximizes XP but is the path of least resistance.....If you factor in that most games have questing that is easy leveling then that takes away difficulty too.
    All of that is true. The thing is this is artificial difficulty players impose on themselves.

    In contrast - truly difficult things in life like
    Learning icelandic (for a native english speaker) is diffcult no matter what. There is no easy way about it, no shortcuts or anything that will make it easy. Its going to be a bitch no matter what you do and what kind of help you get.



    sleep learning  >:)

    The Matrix learning "Tank, I need Icelandic like NOW"
    immodium
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