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The beginning of the end, The story
delete5230
Member EpicPosts: 7,081
This is the truth,
For some odd reason this angers a few select people for absolutely no good reason. It's a fact with proof to back it up. Yet, they believe false data set by Triple A gamming companies with a marketing agenda in order to force a third generation of mmorpg game play..... Some would ask why ?..... The answer is very simple..... To make mmorpgs shorter and quickly profit.
Time frame,
Three events happened in succession:
World of Warcraft was released in 2004. This Triple A mmorpg was an instant hit. However this game steam rolled in popularity causing larger companies to aggressively study it's success. Managers, CEO's and Marketing agents of other companies viewed this as an opportunity, an opportunity to profit. The problem was cost and time, THIS WAS THE ENEMY. I'm sure arguments for a true quality mmoprg verses lower cost were to be had. Quality and the second generation of it's present time lost the argument. Therefore the third generation mmorpg was born. The simple game online.
The second event was unrelated to the first.
Vanguard Saga of Heroes was released early 2007. This game was made by Sigil Games Online. This company was true to the passion of gaming. Contrary to this they did have Managers, and CEO's adding to the pressures of release. It's no secret other mistakes were made in design causing a major disaster at an EXTREMELY VERERABLE TIME IN HISTORY. This too like above was watched by large companies and confirmed the need for cost reduction...... This was a major blow to second generation mmorpg's as millions were disappointed. I can't stress this enough...... Millions of players !
Third event.
Warhammer Online Age of Reckoning released end of 2008. This was the first game of the third generation. Consumer's were unaware of a new age of mmorpg's were about to unfold. This was the official turnaround where BIG BUSINESS SUPERSEDED PASSION !!!...... Marketing at it's best. Larger money was spent on marketing. Quality and passion took a back seat.... Remember Paul Barnett's podcast ?..... but more importantly remember how poorly the game was ?..... I could go deep into RvR, small zones, and all experience was given to instanced battle grounds until they fixed the game. But I'll not.... The game was made cheap, leading to crap third generation mmorpg's.
This is where we stand, third generation of cheap games online.
Sure, profit first, but still where does this leave us !..... Searching.... Searching.
I don't think we need another lecture on how business works. We all know !
For some odd reason this angers a few select people for absolutely no good reason. It's a fact with proof to back it up. Yet, they believe false data set by Triple A gamming companies with a marketing agenda in order to force a third generation of mmorpg game play..... Some would ask why ?..... The answer is very simple..... To make mmorpgs shorter and quickly profit.
Time frame,
Three events happened in succession:
World of Warcraft was released in 2004. This Triple A mmorpg was an instant hit. However this game steam rolled in popularity causing larger companies to aggressively study it's success. Managers, CEO's and Marketing agents of other companies viewed this as an opportunity, an opportunity to profit. The problem was cost and time, THIS WAS THE ENEMY. I'm sure arguments for a true quality mmoprg verses lower cost were to be had. Quality and the second generation of it's present time lost the argument. Therefore the third generation mmorpg was born. The simple game online.
The second event was unrelated to the first.
Vanguard Saga of Heroes was released early 2007. This game was made by Sigil Games Online. This company was true to the passion of gaming. Contrary to this they did have Managers, and CEO's adding to the pressures of release. It's no secret other mistakes were made in design causing a major disaster at an EXTREMELY VERERABLE TIME IN HISTORY. This too like above was watched by large companies and confirmed the need for cost reduction...... This was a major blow to second generation mmorpg's as millions were disappointed. I can't stress this enough...... Millions of players !
Third event.
Warhammer Online Age of Reckoning released end of 2008. This was the first game of the third generation. Consumer's were unaware of a new age of mmorpg's were about to unfold. This was the official turnaround where BIG BUSINESS SUPERSEDED PASSION !!!...... Marketing at it's best. Larger money was spent on marketing. Quality and passion took a back seat.... Remember Paul Barnett's podcast ?..... but more importantly remember how poorly the game was ?..... I could go deep into RvR, small zones, and all experience was given to instanced battle grounds until they fixed the game. But I'll not.... The game was made cheap, leading to crap third generation mmorpg's.
This is where we stand, third generation of cheap games online.
Sure, profit first, but still where does this leave us !..... Searching.... Searching.
I don't think we need another lecture on how business works. We all know !
Comments
A lot has happened in the past 10 years. Vanguard and Warhammer aren't the most significant games to influence MMO development, by a long shot.
The success of mobile platforms, ESO with a well-received console port, cancellation of EQ Next, the rise of crowdfunding (Star Citizen), Minecraft, the success of indie games (including PUBG), "failure" of Shroud of the Avatar, poor optimisation of Mass Effect Andromeda, the unexpected sales of GTA:V microtransactions.
I think all of those events are much more important and influential compared to the whole history of Vanguard. I generally agree with you that parts of the gaming sector have become more business oriented - especially when it comes to franchises. Ubisoft clearly releases very calculated titles based on market research, rather than creativity.
At the same time, there is a rise of indie titles. This spills over to the MMO genre. It's fairly easy to create a persistent multiplayer environment in the various engines these days. I think we will see many "creative" and upcoming MMOs coming from the indie sector.
Last line is simply more proof....... Rise of indie titles !
Triple A will have no part of the cost.
Complete fantasy as usual. As for "Rise of the Indies"... the only Indie MMOs that have released so far have been complete failures. It'll be interesting to see whether the big titles in development can break that streak.
My SWTOR referral link for those wanting to give the game a try. (Newbies get a welcome package while returning players get a few account upgrades to help with their preferred status.)
https://www.ashesofcreation.com/ref/Callaron/
It would be great to see some numbers on demographics in MMOs today. Especially to understand what proportion of people are interested in "traditional" complex systems. From my understanding, this number has to be very low.
Most players today expect "arcade-like" systems, where everything is obvious. When people have to learn and explore the systems on their own, it's often seen as poor design.
As a result, an AAA studio can't justify an AAA budget towards a "traditional" MMO. Not enough people would play.
Failing indies or not it's still proof..... Hay their trying, it's expensive.
More proof Triple A wouldn't touch an mmo. Infact they never did, only cheap third generation (cheap games online)
WoW cost 50mil to make, WaR 100mil and I dunno how much Vanguard was but the reason we have an abundance of junk MMO games now I feel cannot be attributed to one specific reason(or 3). If anything is to blame for companies unwilling to invest big money imo it would be the FTP model. All the games you mentioned started off as BTP + Sub games. The FTP model inserted too much wallet fishing into games and caused developer's to focus designing games around the cash shop and that is when many of the problems began.
I totally disagree.
Vanguard and Warhammer had a extremely large impact. They were both viewed as the FUTURE. This was a "Big time in history". Very very big.
When everyone thought innocence. Instead we got betrayal for profit !!!!!
My SWTOR referral link for those wanting to give the game a try. (Newbies get a welcome package while returning players get a few account upgrades to help with their preferred status.)
https://www.ashesofcreation.com/ref/Callaron/
Damm,
The people that are tricked by this metric bullshit is amazing
I kid ... congratulations. Unless of course you are having doubts in that case stop!
As a girlfriend of mine once said "divorce is expensive, living in sin is not".
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
1 Everquest,not many are interested because most everyone is barely on 56k.
2 FPS remain the big boss,Quake and then unreal,both going into the world cyber games.
3 FFXi first mmorpg to be on multiple platforms,eventually adding xbox as well.I do not think we can compare Everquest Adventures in the same sentence.
4 DSL/cable are now mainstream,Wow releases and is pretty much the sole receiver of all the new internet gamer's.
5 Survival games and a new wave of marketing,lesser value games trying to compete with various gimmicks like b2p or f2p or KS'r,Early access and/or cash shops.The era of Diablo/moba's/tcg's all low budget games.
6 FFXIV the first real amazing looking mmorpg but of course lacks in many areas but not so much from say for example Wow and it's clones.
6 VR the industry/marketing tries to push this onto everyone,tons of biased endorsements,not one good game as of yet.Tons of foolish buyers ,so many they are sold out quickly,just like cell phones,peopel see something new they just have to buy it no matter what.
7 Incoming,not sure what this new era will bring,one thing i am certain is we will not see many HQ games lot's of Dialo/Moba type games,stuff studios can whip out in mere months with little investment/risk.If i was a venture to guess,this might be the slowest era ever since gaming became mainstream 15 years ago.What i am seeing is a massive push to deceptive marketing tactics,everyone is finding ways to circumvent the laws.
I feel we won't see anything intriguing until at least 2020.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
There are many more factors than you have mentioned, such as the interaction between MMOs and solo games, between western and eastern MMOs and the change from subscription to cash shop. But in end we arrive at the same place; cheap tinyMMOs. Will we see a AAA ever again? It would take an IP of stellar proportions for a gaming company to even think about it.
I agree,
I take my OP and add yours and that's where we stand now, in a huge downward spiral.
The end of the end
Reading your last line got me thinking.... Could you imagine if an indie creates a major hit. The triple A's will try and cash in again !!
I self identify as a monkey.
Tbh MMORPG's are becoming a bit stale to me. Their persistent worlds are a little too persistent to me
Minecraft changed my way of looking at MMO's. A world for a few friends and you, that you can change the way you want. Running mods to completely overhaul the experience so you get never ending replay value.
So now I prefer small scale multiplayer games, preferably that let you run a dedicated server for some friends. Plenty of games like that in EA atm in Steam.
Current favourite of mine is Empyrion : Galactic Survival. Still rough, but already moddable and lets you run a dedicated server. But Early Access, so plenty of bugs and necessary server wipes when new versions are released.
These kind of games can be created by smaller dev teams and are financially less risky. These indie companies still try to come up with fresh ideas as opposed to the AAA MMO industry that keeps rehashing the same format.
My SWTOR referral link for those wanting to give the game a try. (Newbies get a welcome package while returning players get a few account upgrades to help with their preferred status.)
https://www.ashesofcreation.com/ref/Callaron/
The genre has changed, but it needs to change again if it want to really start growing in the west again. I don't think either old school or modern mechanics can reboot the genre though, it needs fresh new ideas and mechanics if we want a growth spurt like 2005.
The problem is of course what mechanics and ideas it would take and I fear we wont know until we see them. The whole "MMOs took a wrong turn at Albuquerque" sadly does not help us for more then maybe giving us a few interesting niche games.
MMOs huge problem is that they are rather repetetive and when a game is that way eventually most fans will tire, we have already done the same thing in many other games over and over.
I am not saying that you can make a massive persistent game without repetition (unless you have a great AI that actually can create good new content really cheap) but that we need to change the type of content, starting with the endgame if we want to get somewhere.
Just recycling old ideas wont work, no matter if they are 5 or 20 years old.