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A Growing Subscription Base to Rival WoW's Heyday & F2P 'Could' Happen - Final Fantasy XIV - MMORPG.

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  • SephirosoSephiroso Member RarePosts: 2,019
    Eothas said:
    FF's cash shop is one of the most tame that I have ever seem and I played tons of MMOs, really weird to see people arguing about it, lol. Even cosmetic stuff, unless you absolutely love a NPC's outfit you can always find better looking gear in-game.
    just goes to show people will complain about any and everything.
    EothasKyleran

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  • DragnelusDragnelus Member EpicPosts: 3,098
    Eothas said:
    FF's cash shop is one of the most tame that I have ever seem and I played tons of MMOs, really weird to see people arguing about it, lol. Even cosmetic stuff, unless you absolutely love a NPC's outfit you can always find better looking gear in-game.
    Yup! I like class armor better. And for example stuff like:



    2 euro on shop but I got diff colours for free from an event maybe 2 years ago.
    Eothas

  • GdemamiGdemami Member EpicPosts: 11,724
    edited October 2017
    SBFord said:
    I miss the old days when publishers gave out subscription numbers. I get why they don't any more, preferring "engagement" stats and "registered accounts" because it looks better. With 10M players, I wonder how many are currently subscribed. I bought the game when it was re-released but haven't subscribed past the first couple months after.
    You forgot "cumulative accounts" :)

    Devs were never really giving out subscriber numbers anyway. The only exception was CCP.

    The issue isn't as much that numbers looking bad but universal metrics of subscribtions being gone.

    Couple that with fact that such numbers are still private data and subject to business intelligence, and you have even less reasons to make them public.

    While it might be somewhat interesting to players and outsiders, it is still meaningless from any other perspective.
    Post edited by Gdemami on
  • zanfirezanfire Member UncommonPosts: 951

    Eothas said:

    FF's cash shop is one of the most tame that I have ever seem and I played tons of MMOs, really weird to see people arguing about it, lol. Even cosmetic stuff, unless you absolutely love a NPC's outfit you can always find better looking gear in-game.



    They could just take a look at their own other MMO and do what FFXI has for a cash shop for the past 15 years...meaning it pretty much doesn't exist. SE has just gotten pretty bad with that kind of stuff in general as of late across the board.
  • daltaniousdaltanious Member UncommonPosts: 2,381
    Hope they stay sub model and current quality. Miss heavily some life improvement, like wardrobe slots (insane nowadays that they do not have), but otherwise have rediscovered FF14 and game is truly great, fun, ... Enjoying in full last 3 months.
  • TorvalTorval Member LegendaryPosts: 19,760
    Eothas said:
    FF's cash shop is one of the most tame that I have ever seem and I played tons of MMOs, really weird to see people arguing about it, lol. Even cosmetic stuff, unless you absolutely love a NPC's outfit you can always find better looking gear in-game.

    See I think it's weird that people would justify microtransactions in a game with required box fees and subscriptions. You'd think that would be enough. Why does a game that charges ~$200 a year need more per account than that?

    I can't see this game ever going free to play while the subscription levels are good. Why hassle with that? I guess as a leader into full time subscriptions might be the answer but the return would need to make the hassle worth it.
    GdemamiNildenConstantineMerus
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  • EothasEothas Member UncommonPosts: 84
    Torval said:

    See I think it's weird that people would justify microtransactions in a game with required box fees and subscriptions. You'd think that would be enough. Why does a game that charges ~$200 a year need more per account than that?

    I can't see this game ever going free to play while the subscription levels are good. Why hassle with that? I guess as a leader into full time subscriptions might be the answer but the return would need to make the hassle worth it.
    I think it's fine because I don't think it's taking resources away from the game, on the contrary, the EU servers were funded pretty much by the cash shop, which by the way you can't even acess it in game, it's not intrusive at all, pretty much irrelevant while providing a few items for those that really want it.

    See that dress in the cash shop? You might think that it would be obtainable in-game if the cash shop didn't exist, but I think that's not the case, the revenue from the cash shop probably allows them to hire a few more artists to work on these extras, pretty much a self contained thing.

    After playing BDO for some time (which I had to purchase a box, and it arguably has a sub-fee if you are not running a bot to buy a value pack in the market, hell, even with a bot you probably wouldn't be able to buy it with in-game currency) I can just appreciate XIV's cash shop.

    I can understand that some people want the "subscription and no cash shop" but I think those days are gone. I believe that even Pantheon will open a cash shop eventually, not in the first year, not in the second, eventually though. If it's not disruptive (Like BDO's), then I don't see a problem with it.
    Yaevindusk
  • NildenNilden Member EpicPosts: 2,909
    Torval said:
    Eothas said:
    FF's cash shop is one of the most tame that I have ever seem and I played tons of MMOs, really weird to see people arguing about it, lol. Even cosmetic stuff, unless you absolutely love a NPC's outfit you can always find better looking gear in-game.

    See I think it's weird that people would justify microtransactions in a game with required box fees and subscriptions. You'd think that would be enough. Why does a game that charges ~$200 a year need more per account than that?

    I can't see this game ever going free to play while the subscription levels are good. Why hassle with that? I guess as a leader into full time subscriptions might be the answer but the return would need to make the hassle worth it.
    I agree. It makes the thread title sound conflicted. Why would they consider Free to play if they are pulling in WoW hey day subs. Smells fishy.

    "You CAN'T buy ships for RL money." - MaxBacon

    "classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon

    Love Minecraft. And check out my Youtube channel OhCanadaGamer



  • SephirosoSephiroso Member RarePosts: 2,019
    edited October 2017
    Nilden said:
    Torval said:
    Eothas said:
    FF's cash shop is one of the most tame that I have ever seem and I played tons of MMOs, really weird to see people arguing about it, lol. Even cosmetic stuff, unless you absolutely love a NPC's outfit you can always find better looking gear in-game.

    See I think it's weird that people would justify microtransactions in a game with required box fees and subscriptions. You'd think that would be enough. Why does a game that charges ~$200 a year need more per account than that?

    I can't see this game ever going free to play while the subscription levels are good. Why hassle with that? I guess as a leader into full time subscriptions might be the answer but the return would need to make the hassle worth it.
    I agree. It makes the thread title sound conflicted. Why would they consider Free to play if they are pulling in WoW hey day subs. Smells fishy.
    You're confusing 10m accounts and 10m subs my man. FFXIV is nowhere near 10m subs. And that 10m number is including FFXIV trial accounts. So lol...
    Kyleranzanfire

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  • rojoArcueidrojoArcueid Member EpicPosts: 10,057
    edited October 2017
    Sephiroso said:

    Kyleran said:


    Margrave said:

    If it goes F2P, which I heavily doubt it ever will, I would be all over playing the crap out of this!


    Now see, this puzzles me.

    If I was interested in playing this game the payment model wouldn't really be a factor unless it was over the top pay to win.

    You really can't justify a $15 per month sub even though you think you would love to play it?

    Weird.



    That depens. For example, i love WoW and FFXIV, and i dont mind the subscription. However, i only subscribe 1-3 months a year. Would i play more often if it was B2P with an optional sub like ESO, or even like Gw2? absolutely. I dont mind subscribing, but i do mind subscribing every month for a whole year. That is a lot of money i rather spend buying many other games rather than spend it just to be able to access one game i already paid for.

    If XIV continues to be sub only i will continue to play slowly and buy every expansion, but i will not subscribe for more than 1-3 times a year. That is enough time for me to see what i want to see, the story.
    15 x 12 = 180 dollars. Assuming you're not limiting yourself to super old games that are like 10 bucks, That'll get you around 5 games. Mmos like WoW/FFXIV are able to be played year round, literally thousands of hours worth. What 5 games are you buying every year that gives you thousands of hours worth of content?

    So looking at it from a purely played time stance...mmorpgs are cheaper.
    Sorry but i don't consider grinding the same raids and dungeons over and over as getting thousands of hours. MMO or not, when im done with the story then i already beat the game. I can stay on any mmo beyond the story just mindlessly grinding mobs to no end and craft gear to look cool. That applies to open world single player games too.

    So yeah, thousands of hours is irrelevant to me if its not fresh content. MMOs are more expensive. You are comparing one mmo against many single player games then saying the mmo is cheaper. That's not a good comparison. Games keep getting cheaper, specially western games losing value so quickly. That is not an issue. Between 2016 and early this year i bought almost 20 games. Those $180 you mentioned helped quite a bit with the total price. I could not see myself spending that money on subscription alone. But that's just me.

    Like i said, i'll keep playing wow and XIV, but for the content i consume in those two games, 1-3 months of subscription a year is enough. If SE and Blizz are happy with that money then thats cool, if not, thats cool too.




  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 34,294
    edited October 2017
    Sephiroso said:

    Kyleran said:


    Margrave said:

    If it goes F2P, which I heavily doubt it ever will, I would be all over playing the crap out of this!


    Now see, this puzzles me.

    If I was interested in playing this game the payment model wouldn't really be a factor unless it was over the top pay to win.

    You really can't justify a $15 per month sub even though you think you would love to play it?

    Weird.



    That depens. For example, i love WoW and FFXIV, and i dont mind the subscription. However, i only subscribe 1-3 months a year. Would i play more often if it was B2P with an optional sub like ESO, or even like Gw2? absolutely. I dont mind subscribing, but i do mind subscribing every month for a whole year. That is a lot of money i rather spend buying many other games rather than spend it just to be able to access one game i already paid for.

    If XIV continues to be sub only i will continue to play slowly and buy every expansion, but i will not subscribe for more than 1-3 times a year. That is enough time for me to see what i want to see, the story.
    15 x 12 = 180 dollars. Assuming you're not limiting yourself to super old games that are like 10 bucks, That'll get you around 5 games. Mmos like WoW/FFXIV are able to be played year round, literally thousands of hours worth. What 5 games are you buying every year that gives you thousands of hours worth of content?

    So looking at it from a purely played time stance...mmorpgs are cheaper.
    Sorry but i don't consider grinding the same raids and dungeons over and over as getting thousands of hours. MMO or not, when im done with the story then i already beat the game. I can stay on any mmo beyond the story just mindlessly grinding mobs to no end and craft gear to look cool. That applies to open world single player games too.

    So yeah, thousands of hours is irrelevant to me if its not fresh content. MMOs are more expensive. You are comparing one mmo against many single player games then saying the mmo is cheaper. That's not a good comparison. Games keep getting cheaper, specially western games losing value so quickly. That is not an issue. Between 2016 and early this year i bought almost 20 games. Those $180 you mentioned helped quite a bit with the total price. I could not see myself spending that money on subscription alone. But that's just me.

    Like i said, i'll keep playing wow and XIV, but for the content i consume in those two games, 1-3 months of subscription a year is enough. If SE and Blizz are happy with that money then thats cool, if not, thats cool too.
    So then if they dropped the sub fee you really wouldn't have good reason to play it any more than you do now.

    Content is either fun and worth paying for, or not fun therefore not worth paying for.

    Being free should not factor into a decision to play or not.

    Well assuming its not beyond your means of course.
    ConstantineMerus

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  • NildenNilden Member EpicPosts: 2,909
    Sephiroso said:
    Nilden said:
    Torval said:
    Eothas said:
    FF's cash shop is one of the most tame that I have ever seem and I played tons of MMOs, really weird to see people arguing about it, lol. Even cosmetic stuff, unless you absolutely love a NPC's outfit you can always find better looking gear in-game.

    See I think it's weird that people would justify microtransactions in a game with required box fees and subscriptions. You'd think that would be enough. Why does a game that charges ~$200 a year need more per account than that?

    I can't see this game ever going free to play while the subscription levels are good. Why hassle with that? I guess as a leader into full time subscriptions might be the answer but the return would need to make the hassle worth it.
    I agree. It makes the thread title sound conflicted. Why would they consider Free to play if they are pulling in WoW hey day subs. Smells fishy.
    You're confusing 10m accounts and 10m subs my man. FFXIV is nowhere near 10m subs. And that 10m number is including FFXIV trial accounts. So lol...
    I'm not the one who started the thread. I pointed out that it smells fishy.

    The comparison to WoW hey day subs is pure fiction.

    "You CAN'T buy ships for RL money." - MaxBacon

    "classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon

    Love Minecraft. And check out my Youtube channel OhCanadaGamer



  • TalulaRoseTalulaRose Member RarePosts: 1,247




    Kyleran said:




    Margrave said:


    If it goes F2P, which I heavily doubt it ever will, I would be all over playing the crap out of this!




    Now see, this puzzles me.

    If I was interested in playing this game the payment model wouldn't really be a factor unless it was over the top pay to win.

    You really can't justify a $15 per month sub even though you think you would love to play it?

    Weird.






    That depens. For example, i love WoW and FFXIV, and i dont mind the subscription. However, i only subscribe 1-3 months a year. Would i play more often if it was B2P with an optional sub like ESO, or even like Gw2? absolutely. I dont mind subscribing, but i do mind subscribing every month for a whole year. That is a lot of money i rather spend buying many other games rather than spend it just to be able to access one game i already paid for.



    If XIV continues to be sub only i will continue to play slowly and buy every expansion, but i will not subscribe for more than 1-3 times a year. That is enough time for me to see what i want to see, the story.



    Why would a company give the game to you free or even B2P so you can go spend money on other companies?

  • rojoArcueidrojoArcueid Member EpicPosts: 10,057
    edited October 2017




    Kyleran said:




    Margrave said:


    If it goes F2P, which I heavily doubt it ever will, I would be all over playing the crap out of this!




    Now see, this puzzles me.

    If I was interested in playing this game the payment model wouldn't really be a factor unless it was over the top pay to win.

    You really can't justify a $15 per month sub even though you think you would love to play it?

    Weird.






    That depens. For example, i love WoW and FFXIV, and i dont mind the subscription. However, i only subscribe 1-3 months a year. Would i play more often if it was B2P with an optional sub like ESO, or even like Gw2? absolutely. I dont mind subscribing, but i do mind subscribing every month for a whole year. That is a lot of money i rather spend buying many other games rather than spend it just to be able to access one game i already paid for.



    If XIV continues to be sub only i will continue to play slowly and buy every expansion, but i will not subscribe for more than 1-3 times a year. That is enough time for me to see what i want to see, the story.



    Why would a company give the game to you free or even B2P so you can go spend money on other companies?

    did i ask for a free game? i clearly said im perfectly fine subscribing for a couple of months a year. If they think that is not enough then i'm sorry for them. Why would i give them all the money when i also want to buy other stuff? Same idea applies to your question. I pay for the content i consume. No need to keep paying when i already consumed all the content i wanted.

    I just said i would play more often if the sub was optional, but i'm ok the way it is now.




  • TorvalTorval Member LegendaryPosts: 19,760
    Eothas said:
    Torval said:

    See I think it's weird that people would justify microtransactions in a game with required box fees and subscriptions. You'd think that would be enough. Why does a game that charges ~$200 a year need more per account than that?

    I can't see this game ever going free to play while the subscription levels are good. Why hassle with that? I guess as a leader into full time subscriptions might be the answer but the return would need to make the hassle worth it.
    I think it's fine because I don't think it's taking resources away from the game, on the contrary, the EU servers were funded pretty much by the cash shop, which by the way you can't even acess it in game, it's not intrusive at all, pretty much irrelevant while providing a few items for those that really want it.

    See that dress in the cash shop? You might think that it would be obtainable in-game if the cash shop didn't exist, but I think that's not the case, the revenue from the cash shop probably allows them to hire a few more artists to work on these extras, pretty much a self contained thing.

    After playing BDO for some time (which I had to purchase a box, and it arguably has a sub-fee if you are not running a bot to buy a value pack in the market, hell, even with a bot you probably wouldn't be able to buy it with in-game currency) I can just appreciate XIV's cash shop.

    I can understand that some people want the "subscription and no cash shop" but I think those days are gone. I believe that even Pantheon will open a cash shop eventually, not in the first year, not in the second, eventually though. If it's not disruptive (Like BDO's), then I don't see a problem with it.
    Of course they can offer those cosmetics outside of a cash shop. They could be added to an NPC for in game currency. That's neither here nor there.

    You're using personal justification and rationalization to give the cash shop a pass here. What BDO does isn't relevant. How SquareEnix develops, maintains, and pays for the cash shop isn't relevant to why they have it when they're charging a box fee and sub for the game.

    Typically MMOs that have charged a sub haven't had cash shops. Games with cash shops didn't require subs. What we're seeing are publishers finding ways to incorporate all three revenue streams to maximize profits. That's why it's not strange to see people trip over that. The triple dip hasn't been the most common model until now.

    So @Nilden if they're serious about messing with the subscription model they have I think it will be to do something like ESO or GW2 does by dropping the mandatory sub behind a box fee (ESO) and then offering an optional sub with perks. I'm still not sure why they'd do that but in short it would be because business intelligence has said that it will maximize those three revenue streams (box/dlc fees, subscriptions, microtransactions). By opening up the game a little they may increase overall revenue and see numbers and visibility go up.

    If this were a European or North American company I would say this is more likely. It doesn't feel like a thing a Japanese gaming company would do. They seem very conservative and resistant to progressive ideas when it comes to the business end.

    Gdemami
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  • OzmodanOzmodan Member EpicPosts: 9,523
    Sorry but this is just another example of a publisher giving bogus numbers.  They have two or three active servers and the rest are pretty much dead.
  • drivendawndrivendawn Member RarePosts: 2,124
    Ozmodan said:
    Sorry but this is just another example of a publisher giving bogus numbers.  They have two or three active servers and the rest are pretty much dead.
    No need to lie man. 
  • XatshXatsh Member UncommonPosts: 328
    edited October 2017
    Ozmodan said:
    Sorry but this is just another example of a publisher giving bogus numbers.  They have two or three active servers and the rest are pretty much dead.
    Game has what 66 total servers globally. And to my knowledge none of them are what I call Empty. Starter zones are more or less empty but that is common on any mmo with some age to it.

    Game is one of the most populated mmos out there currently. Is it OMG the best thing ever? no it is very very far from it. But it speaks of the state of the genre that a game like FFXIV can become one of the top mmos in the world.

    Gota give credit where it is due though. FFXIV is popular, it is successful, for the most part it is holdings it sub numbers. The getting near WOW or 10million BS is just that BS. That is marketing. Game has between 600-800k subs based on current people earning achievements through the main story. Not a exact science but the closest thing we have.
    drivendawnConstantineMerus
  • EothasEothas Member UncommonPosts: 84
    edited October 2017
    Torval said:


    You're using personal justification and rationalization to give the cash shop a pass here. What BDO does isn't relevant. How SquareEnix develops, maintains, and pays for the cash shop isn't relevant to why they have it when they're charging a box fee and sub for the game.

    Typically MMOs that have charged a sub haven't had cash shops. Games with cash shops didn't require subs. What we're seeing are publishers finding ways to incorporate all three revenue streams to maximize profits. That's why it's not strange to see people trip over that. The triple dip hasn't been the most common model until now.

    I find it relevant, because it justifies its existence for me and also why I don't have any problem with its existence.

    I know what MMO typically had for their business model, but I don't care on what it used to be, it was another era, just because it was like that doesn't mean it needs to stay that way forever. Good on them if publishers are finding ways to incorporate all three while not disrupting the game or taking resources away from it and possibly investing the money generated on the game, like FFXIV did with EU servers.

    Of course if publishers are being shady, that's another matter entirely, that's why I mentioned BDO, Kakao/Pearl Abyss hava a terrible business model and BDO's cash shop is pretty much P2W (I won't discuss this here, unless you really want to). I mention BDO because it's good to have some comparisons, otherwise what's the point?
  • bcbullybcbully Member EpicPosts: 9,807
    they just had 700k...
  • YaevinduskYaevindusk Member RarePosts: 2,092
    edited October 2017
    Awesome, the game is bigger than it has been since the launch. Growing and not shrinking is a good thing for any mmo.

    Indeed.  Talking about personal likes or dislikes are respectable opinions.  Though the one thing I think we almost all can agree on is that this game has a nice "disaster to success" underdog story.  The fact that it has had growth over these past four years instead of decline -- regardless of the numbers we can only speculate on -- is very nice to hear about a P2P MMO (or any MMO in general). 

    It's a success for the genre as a whole.  Each story like things may bring in more potential players.  New to the genre or old.  And they will hopefully expand their horizons.

    FFXIV has been improving greatly over the years.  From its crappy 1.0 release to it's mediocre 2.0 release.  Implementing improvements and player feedback with new patches (new features, quality of life and classes as opposed to waiting for expansions like other MMOs might do to sell that expansion product).  The game in 4.0 is much different from its meh 2.0 release.  So many things learned and implemented.  With each patch making these less restrictive (such as much, much larger areas and little to no invisible walls -- especially with 4.0 and 4.1 with swimming, and 3.0 with flying).  And continuously attempting to improve classes and combat (to varying degrees of success depending on classes).

    I'm in love with how many things -- how many metas -- are in the game.  From Crafting Meta to Gathering Meta to Multiple Raiding types, dungeon types, side quest, leisure activities, etc.  Even small systems have their own end game of sorts.  And are continuously updated, such as the squadron dungeon system and even added little things like Bards actually being able to write and play their own music.  I'm already spending most of my time on the Crafting / Gathering / Retainer / Squadron metas, and looking forward to another Deep Dungeon and their updated PvP (which is much better in 4.0).  Want to do the raiding once the FF12 / Tactics raid comes out.  Enjoy how their "Hardcore Raid" and their "PuG" raid are different areas, different bosses, different stories, etc.  Same with the dungeon's hard modes having different routes and bosses and story, as well.  Not just number changes.

    Even get excited by the little updates in each patch, besides all the the above.  New hairstyles, emotes, furniture, housing updates and areas, QoL and updates to most systems, no matter how small.  Honestly would like WoW to pay such attention to those things.  I know a lot of people that would like new emotes and hairstyles each patch, at the very least.  In essence, I don't know it it will ever reach WoW's hayday.  Past experience with games says it won't.  But it sure has come the closest to date and has the potential.  When comparing them as P2P games versus others that started as such.
    Due to frequent travel in my youth, English isn't something I consider my primary language (and thus I obtained quirky ways of writing).  German and French were always easier for me despite my family being U.S. citizens for over a century.  Spanish I learned as a requirement in school, Japanese and Korean I acquired for my youthful desire of anime and gaming (and also work now).  I only debate in English to help me work with it (and limit things).  In addition, I'm not smart enough to remain fluent in everything and typically need exposure to get in the groove of things again if I haven't heard it in a while.  If you understand Mandarin, I know a little, but it has actually been a challenge and could use some help.

    Also, I thoroughly enjoy debates and have accounts on over a dozen sites for this.  If you wish to engage in such, please put effort in a post and provide sources -- I will then do the same with what I already wrote (if I didn't) as well as with my responses to your own.  Expanding my information on a subject makes my stance either change or strengthen the next time I speak of it or write a thesis.  Allow me to thank you sincerely for your time.
  • YaevinduskYaevindusk Member RarePosts: 2,092
    Ozmodan said:
    Sorry but this is just another example of a publisher giving bogus numbers.  They have two or three active servers and the rest are pretty much dead.

    Uh... No?  In fact, they had to open several new servers in EU alone.  NA has some 5+ really popular servers that have queues and are locked from making characters, though there are a lot of well populated servers beyond that.  But I've no doubt some seem less filled.  I only play on 5 servers -- 3 with any degree of significant length -- but I always see people around in them.
    Due to frequent travel in my youth, English isn't something I consider my primary language (and thus I obtained quirky ways of writing).  German and French were always easier for me despite my family being U.S. citizens for over a century.  Spanish I learned as a requirement in school, Japanese and Korean I acquired for my youthful desire of anime and gaming (and also work now).  I only debate in English to help me work with it (and limit things).  In addition, I'm not smart enough to remain fluent in everything and typically need exposure to get in the groove of things again if I haven't heard it in a while.  If you understand Mandarin, I know a little, but it has actually been a challenge and could use some help.

    Also, I thoroughly enjoy debates and have accounts on over a dozen sites for this.  If you wish to engage in such, please put effort in a post and provide sources -- I will then do the same with what I already wrote (if I didn't) as well as with my responses to your own.  Expanding my information on a subject makes my stance either change or strengthen the next time I speak of it or write a thesis.  Allow me to thank you sincerely for your time.
  • YaevinduskYaevindusk Member RarePosts: 2,092
    edited October 2017
    Dragnelus said:
    Eothas said:
    FF's cash shop is one of the most tame that I have ever seem and I played tons of MMOs, really weird to see people arguing about it, lol. Even cosmetic stuff, unless you absolutely love a NPC's outfit you can always find better looking gear in-game.
    Yup! I like class armor better. And for example stuff like:



    2 euro on shop but I got diff colours for free from an event maybe 2 years ago.

    Yeah.  Most are around 2 Euro, and were available for free during seasonal events before being placed on the shop as legacy items.  But it's up to the individual if it's worth it.  The big thing here is that it's impossible to access the shop from in-game.  It's even hidden on their website.  Mogstation is for account upkeep, with the cash shop hidden away as yet another button on that.

    They also use the funds from such for new EU and NA servers / data centers and housing servers.
    Due to frequent travel in my youth, English isn't something I consider my primary language (and thus I obtained quirky ways of writing).  German and French were always easier for me despite my family being U.S. citizens for over a century.  Spanish I learned as a requirement in school, Japanese and Korean I acquired for my youthful desire of anime and gaming (and also work now).  I only debate in English to help me work with it (and limit things).  In addition, I'm not smart enough to remain fluent in everything and typically need exposure to get in the groove of things again if I haven't heard it in a while.  If you understand Mandarin, I know a little, but it has actually been a challenge and could use some help.

    Also, I thoroughly enjoy debates and have accounts on over a dozen sites for this.  If you wish to engage in such, please put effort in a post and provide sources -- I will then do the same with what I already wrote (if I didn't) as well as with my responses to your own.  Expanding my information on a subject makes my stance either change or strengthen the next time I speak of it or write a thesis.  Allow me to thank you sincerely for your time.
  • Jamar870Jamar870 Member UncommonPosts: 373
    Sephiroso, as to the BAMs in Tera guess so but as to leveling in Tera, my experience has been they sped it up. You could just do the story stuff in it now and still stand a chance of leveling out of doing a dungeon in that game, If I did the other quests as well as the story ones, I would probably do half or less of the story dungeons because I leveled past them. So from what I see Tera doesn't have slow leveling. As to the topic, I like FFXIV just fine and I played continuously since 1/2014

  • SephirosoSephiroso Member RarePosts: 2,019
    Jamar870 said:
    Sephiroso, as to the BAMs in Tera guess so but as to leveling in Tera, my experience has been they sped it up. You could just do the story stuff in it now and still stand a chance of leveling out of doing a dungeon in that game, If I did the other quests as well as the story ones, I would probably do half or less of the story dungeons because I leveled past them. So from what I see Tera doesn't have slow leveling. As to the topic, I like FFXIV just fine and I played continuously since 1/2014

    If you didn't level via BAMs, then yea i'd say you were right, leveling is sped up. But if you leveled with BAMs before the f2p patch, i'd have to disagree. I didn't even do quests because leveling by just killing BAMs was so fast. I remember i was in my 30s fighting the i think basilisk BAMs outside one of the dungeons and killing just 2-3 = 1 level if i solo'd it. It was crazy fast.

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