yeah they are gonna milk d3 as much as possible. honestly since its blizzard there will probably be at least 1 possibly 2 more expansions before they do anything else. see u guys in 2025. i mean it took years and years and years for d3 to come out after the uber success of d2.....
IMPORTANT: Please keep all replies to my posts about GAMING. Please no negative or backhanded comments directed at me personally. If you are going to post a reply that includes how you feel about me, please don't bother replying & just ignore my post instead. I'm on this forum to talk about GAMING. Thank you.
D3 has been way more profitable than D1 and D2 combined.
D3 has been amazing for Blizzard.
I mean, that has nothing to do with quality of the games and everything to do with how big PC gaming has become since the late 90's and early 2000's...
1) last year there was a manufacturers mixup on the dice they gave away and everyone assumed it was a hint for D4.
2) They are probably 2 years away from announcing whatever the next big Diablo project actually is.
I'm hoping next year they'll be ready to announce the D2 and LOD remasters.
I'm kind of surprised they won't even announce anything regarding a D3 druid class. It seems like the next logical step after the necromancer.
Please change the difficulty system. It encourages playing the minimal difficulty to get the most which translates into incredible easy for the best rate of gear drops.
it doesn't incentive playing the lowest difficulty at all. It incentives doing the highest difficulty you can while maintaining a fast time. Those are two very different things.
D3 has been way more profitable than D1 and D2 combined.
D3 has been amazing for Blizzard.
Not relative to HOTS, Hearthstone or WOW. Games like SC and Diablo need new monetization models in order to get put back on a pedestal. Their profit margins are nowhere near as high or consistent as their big money makers.
Please change the difficulty system. It encourages playing the minimal difficulty to get the most which translates into incredible easy for the best rate of gear drops.
it doesn't incentive playing the lowest difficulty at all. It incentives doing the highest difficulty you can while maintaining a fast time. Those are two very different things.
D3 has been way more profitable than D1 and D2 combined.
D3 has been amazing for Blizzard.
Not relative to HOTS, Hearthstone or WOW. Games like SC and Diablo need new monetization models in order to get put back on a pedestal. Their profit margins are nowhere near as high or consistent as their big money makers.
Stop it, you're being too reasonable and intelligent here!! Let me rephrase what you actually meant to say:
Blizzard are stupid and dumb and release no content. They abandoned their real games for simple and easy cash grabs and don't care about consumers at all! They suck, their games suck and their attitude sucks. They used to make some half decent games but that time is long gone. Boooo Blizzard!!
There you go, you don't even have to thank me
/Cheers, Lahnmir
'the only way he could nail it any better is if he used a cross.'
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
You should have learned by now, nothing happens fast at Blizzard. Years to figure what to do, then 5-10 years to build it but the products are very polished.
Without scrapping the paragon system there is nothing they can do. I am paragon 4400~ gear/drops do not matter. 99% of stats come from my paragon, even if someone had 100% perfect gear + paragon 3000. my stats are 10x higher and he will never beat me in any greater rift.
You should have learned by now, nothing happens fast at Blizzard. Years to figure what to do, then 5-10 years to build it but the products are very polished.
Yeah, their products are very polished, especially Diablo 2 and 3 at the release date.
I take that as they don't really have any long term plan or direction for the Diablo franchise. Their latest patch which appears to be based off player feedback would be evidence of that.
I really don't see any major changes coming for this franchise. They might add a new area or so, but the mechanics are pretty much set in stone. The funny thing, all they really had to do was make a graphically updated D2 and they would have had a hit, instead they thought they could make D3 better with a new design and they essentially failed.
Without scrapping the paragon system there is nothing they can do. I am paragon 4400~ gear/drops do not matter. 99% of stats come from my paragon, even if someone had 100% perfect gear + paragon 3000. my stats are 10x higher and he will never beat me in any greater rift.
it doesn't incentive playing the lowest difficulty at all. It incentives doing the highest difficulty you can while maintaining a fast time. Those are two very different things.
I agree with you that it incentivizes doing the highest difficulty while maintaining a fast time. It is, without a doubt, one of the easiest and most boring ARPG progression systems ever. That's why I don't like the difficulty system.
it doesn't incentive playing the lowest difficulty at all. It incentives doing the highest difficulty you can while maintaining a fast time. Those are two very different things.
I agree with you that it incentivizes doing the highest difficulty while maintaining a fast time. It is, without a doubt, one of the easiest and most boring ARPG progression systems ever. That's why I don't like the difficulty system.
What ARPGs have great end game progression systems and what do they look like?
It's not really "end game", but just "game" in Diablo 3. Getting to 70 is a joke now and so the difficulty system/GRs is what the game is now.
Running GRifts are the endgame activity. You can run Rifts before that, but not GRifts. But the whole annoyance and repetition comes from end game.
Progression to 70 isn't a joke if you rebirth for seasonal and don't twink your gold and Paragon Points. Getting to 70 isn't any more of a joke than leveling in Grim Dawn or TL2 on easy mode.
I still don't see an ARPG with a better system at end game or what would be a better system.
It is a joke even for seasonal. I've leveled to 70 in a night in seasonal. But what's even more insane is just asking a buddy or two to power level you in an hour or two. Grim dawn can take 50 hours to complete with a new character. PoE takes a very long time and the game itself actually forces challenge on the player.
Those other games have very different difficulty systems. PoE for one forces the challenge on the player as you get further and further. Diablo is the opposite of that. Part of the replayability of those other games is trying out new builds and running through the game multiple times with different characters. They are fundamentally different systems and my specific issue with Diablo 3 is that it "incentivizes doing the highest difficulty you can while maintaining a fast time."
The very little work i have seen gone into the entire Diablo series is pathetic. I bought into Diablo 3 on whim,i figured Blizzard made so much money from the franchise they would finally get it together and put in some effort.Instead it is just more of the same old spam killing with no reason for a login screen what so ever. I'll make a prediction,seeing what has been done in recent games by Blizzard,i will expect to see more direction towards cash shop sales.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Running GRifts are the endgame activity. You can run Rifts before that, but not GRifts. But the whole annoyance and repetition comes from end game.
Progression to 70 isn't a joke if you rebirth for seasonal and don't twink your gold and Paragon Points. Getting to 70 isn't any more of a joke than leveling in Grim Dawn or TL2 on easy mode.
I still don't see an ARPG with a better system at end game or what would be a better system.
It is a joke even for seasonal. I've leveled to 70 in a night in seasonal. But what's even more insane is just asking a buddy or two to power level you in an hour or two. Grim dawn can take 50 hours to complete with a new character. PoE takes a very long time and the game itself actually forces challenge on the player.
Those other games have very different difficulty systems. PoE for one forces the challenge on the player as you get further and further. Diablo is the opposite of that. Part of the replayability of those other games is trying out new builds and running through the game multiple times with different characters. They are fundamentally different systems and my specific issue with Diablo 3 is that it "incentivizes doing the highest difficulty you can while maintaining a fast time."
It looks like both those games not only don't force difficulty and challenge but there are guides and builds to easily speedlevel to cap in a day if you're a newbie and in an hour or two if you're experienced. There are YouTube videos in the first r/pathofexile that show the speed runs.
I feel like you're comparing the easiest options in D3 with the slowest and most involved options in the other games. Different people have different skill levels. What one person finds a joke another person can't even complete. That's why ARPGs and my single player RPGs have offered various modes, including an easy mode.
I'm not buying that D3 somehow offers less challenge or that GD, Path of Exile, or any other ARPG has a less repetitious or more interesting end game. I can understand finding Grim Dawn, Path of Exile, and other ARPGs more interesting. That's a matter of taste, but better built, more challenging, and better end game I don't buy at all.
I know you're not buying the difficulty thing. Let me put it this way then.
First, I was never talking about "end game." That was something you brought up. In fact, the difficulty system in Diablo is equally obnoxious to me throughout the regular game. I was only trying to get you to understand how fundamentally different the games you are discussing are after it seemed you didn't understand.
So, lets talk PoE first. In Diablo, when you get to Belial and die on him on say, torment 1, you can simply go into the options and change the difficulty to make it easier. Not only that, but you can expect the exact same drop rate (but a bit less xp). In PoE, if you run into something you can't beat, you can't just back out and change the difficulty. You MUST beat that thing in front of you as is (assuming it's a boss). If you really can't beat that thing in front of you, you have to farm stuff. That is very different than Diablo 3. And once again, "My specific issue with Diablo 3 is that it incentivizes doing the highest difficulty you can while maintaining a fast time."
Lets talk Grim Dawn. In Grim Dawn, you start only being able to do normal with veteran checked as the max difficulty. You must play the game like that until you beat it. It has 2 further difficulty levels. Like Diablo 2, one you beat the first one, you can go to the next one. I think it's called "elite." Like in PoE, if you can't beat something in front of you, you can't just change the difficulty. You have to go back and shore up your character. In Diablo, that is not true.
But fundamentally, the fact that in Diablo you are incentivized to do the highest difficulty you can while maintaining a fast time, including while you level regular levels, just bothers me. I'm surprised you don't see the difference.
In Diablo 3 you have to beat a difficulty level before ramping it up to the next difficulty level. Not all difficulty levels have the same loot tables.
You just don't know how Diablo 3 works. That is a problem if we are going to talk about it at all.
In Diablo 3 you have to beat a difficulty level before ramping it up to the next difficulty level. Not all difficulty levels have the same loot tables.
You just don't know how Diablo 3 works. That is a problem if we are going to talk about it at all.
Sorry I was mixing up T and GR levels. Ther'e's no need to resort to condescension and snarky comments to prop up your own view.
That still doesn't matter or invalidate anything I said. Torment levels have different loot tables and rates of loot. You can't get the same loot on Normal as you do Torment and each torment level increases the rate of acquisition. Difficulty levels matter.
GRs are tied to progression challenge and important for xp and blood shards and increasing your blood shard cap.
Grim Dawn has a complex trait tree but what sort of end game activities does it have and how are they in any way more challenging? That was the original point that GD and Path of Exile offer a much better challenging experience. I don't think so.
I come off as condescending all the time. But in this case, I was actually worried that you just plain didn't know how Diablo worked. In the end, I try to treat people in kind. That might be why you see me treat, let's say thescavenger, differently. It's a nerd ethos for sure.
Grim dawn doesn't have very good "end game." It has additional difficulty levels where you can continue to level your character and get better gear. There comes a point when it just gets more interesting to start a new character. This is generally after like 100+ hours played (or 20 minutes if you hate your character). After the point where you beat the last difficulty and are satisfied with your gear, you start a new build.
PoE has a fairly robust endgame where you do maps to increase your character's power (through gear and such). The more challenging, the more potential rewards. It's hard to explain why the map system works so well. The bosses are varied and you can lose. You kind of want to set your goal on making a character that can womp one of the bosses that is difficult to defeat. You can build a character from the ground up in PoE, get to the endgame and find out your build is terrible if you aren't careful. The game attempts to challenge you all the way along.
When it comes to loot tables, you aren't entirely wrong, but by any honest measure, you are essentially wrong. There are 2 points where the gear is potentially different. First, at Torment 1. All legendaries can drop at Torment 1 and there is a 10% chance that a legendary drop is an ancient legendary. The second time is when you reach GR70. Once on character on your account gets to GR70, all characters can have Primal legendaries drop on any difficulty. This is an ancient legendary with max stats.
In other words - torment 1-13 are the same when it comes to what can drop. And if you have 1 character at or past GR70, all legendary drops from torment 1-13 are the same. The difference is the drop rate. Which brings me to me original point, "in Diablo you are incentivized to do the highest difficulty you can while maintaining a fast time."
I think that some people like this style of play, and I'm fine with that. I just don't like it. Farming efficiency is boring to me. I think this is my last post so I will say this - I think Diablo 3 has the best gameplay by far than the other ARPGs mentioned earlier. The ability to level one character and get multiple builds out of it is nice. I find it strange that they put so much emphasis on set pieces, but still find using those set pieces interesting. I generally like Diablo 3. I just don't like the way they handle difficulty.
it doesn't incentive playing the lowest difficulty at all. It incentives doing the highest difficulty you can while maintaining a fast time. Those are two very different things.
I agree with you that it incentivizes doing the highest difficulty while maintaining a fast time. It is, without a doubt, one of the easiest and most boring ARPG progression systems ever. That's why I don't like the difficulty system.
People generally do the same thing in POE - they find the sweet spot for fast map clears. the atlas is definitely more enjoyable although POE could use some sort of competitive leaderboards not based on leveling the fastest.
The very little work i have seen gone into the entire Diablo series is pathetic. I bought into Diablo 3 on whim,i figured Blizzard made so much money from the franchise they would finally get it together and put in some effort.Instead it is just more of the same old spam killing with no reason for a login screen what so ever. I'll make a prediction,seeing what has been done in recent games by Blizzard,i will expect to see more direction towards cash shop sales.
This really harkens all the way back to D2:LoD. Within a year of launching that they seemed to be pretty much done with D2 even though another expansion would have been massive. TPTB decided to make the sequel game but Blizzard Norths plans of making it an MMO clashed with Blizzard South not wanting it to leech from WOW.
Anyway, Blizzard didn't do a very good job in running warden often and catching people. They just blamed the engine and old BNET and left players to deal with it.
Comments
I mean, that has nothing to do with quality of the games and everything to do with how big PC gaming has become since the late 90's and early 2000's...
1) last year there was a manufacturers mixup on the dice they gave away and everyone assumed it was a hint for D4.
2) They are probably 2 years away from announcing whatever the next big Diablo project actually is.
I'm hoping next year they'll be ready to announce the D2 and LOD remasters. I'm kind of surprised they won't even announce anything regarding a D3 druid class. It seems like the next logical step after the necromancer.
it doesn't incentive playing the lowest difficulty at all. It incentives doing the highest difficulty you can while maintaining a fast time. Those are two very different things. Not relative to HOTS, Hearthstone or WOW. Games like SC and Diablo need new monetization models in order to get put back on a pedestal. Their profit margins are nowhere near as high or consistent as their big money makers.
...meanwhile in december we'll get new expansion for Path of Exile.
Okay...
Blizzard are stupid and dumb and release no content. They abandoned their real games for simple and easy cash grabs and don't care about consumers at all! They suck, their games suck and their attitude sucks. They used to make some half decent games but that time is long gone. Boooo Blizzard!!
There you go, you don't even have to thank me
/Cheers,
Lahnmir
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
Archeage EU - Nui
mmorpg junkie since 1999
Are you forgetting how long we waited for D3? Or are you too young for that?
Sadly if it's anything like WoW, it'll be boring.
I take that as they don't really have any long term plan or direction for the Diablo franchise. Their latest patch which appears to be based off player feedback would be evidence of that.
Just my take on the situation.
Those other games have very different difficulty systems. PoE for one forces the challenge on the player as you get further and further. Diablo is the opposite of that. Part of the replayability of those other games is trying out new builds and running through the game multiple times with different characters. They are fundamentally different systems and my specific issue with Diablo 3 is that it "incentivizes doing the highest difficulty you can while maintaining a fast time."
The very little work i have seen gone into the entire Diablo series is pathetic.
I bought into Diablo 3 on whim,i figured Blizzard made so much money from the franchise they would finally get it together and put in some effort.Instead it is just more of the same old spam killing with no reason for a login screen what so ever.
I'll make a prediction,seeing what has been done in recent games by Blizzard,i will expect to see more direction towards cash shop sales.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
First, I was never talking about "end game." That was something you brought up. In fact, the difficulty system in Diablo is equally obnoxious to me throughout the regular game. I was only trying to get you to understand how fundamentally different the games you are discussing are after it seemed you didn't understand.
So, lets talk PoE first. In Diablo, when you get to Belial and die on him on say, torment 1, you can simply go into the options and change the difficulty to make it easier. Not only that, but you can expect the exact same drop rate (but a bit less xp). In PoE, if you run into something you can't beat, you can't just back out and change the difficulty. You MUST beat that thing in front of you as is (assuming it's a boss). If you really can't beat that thing in front of you, you have to farm stuff. That is very different than Diablo 3. And once again, "My specific issue with Diablo 3 is that it incentivizes doing the highest difficulty you can while maintaining a fast time."
Lets talk Grim Dawn. In Grim Dawn, you start only being able to do normal with veteran checked as the max difficulty. You must play the game like that until you beat it. It has 2 further difficulty levels. Like Diablo 2, one you beat the first one, you can go to the next one. I think it's called "elite." Like in PoE, if you can't beat something in front of you, you can't just change the difficulty. You have to go back and shore up your character. In Diablo, that is not true.
But fundamentally, the fact that in Diablo you are incentivized to do the highest difficulty you can while maintaining a fast time, including while you level regular levels, just bothers me. I'm surprised you don't see the difference.
Grim dawn doesn't have very good "end game." It has additional difficulty levels where you can continue to level your character and get better gear. There comes a point when it just gets more interesting to start a new character. This is generally after like 100+ hours played (or 20 minutes if you hate your character). After the point where you beat the last difficulty and are satisfied with your gear, you start a new build.
PoE has a fairly robust endgame where you do maps to increase your character's power (through gear and such). The more challenging, the more potential rewards. It's hard to explain why the map system works so well. The bosses are varied and you can lose. You kind of want to set your goal on making a character that can womp one of the bosses that is difficult to defeat. You can build a character from the ground up in PoE, get to the endgame and find out your build is terrible if you aren't careful. The game attempts to challenge you all the way along.
When it comes to loot tables, you aren't entirely wrong, but by any honest measure, you are essentially wrong. There are 2 points where the gear is potentially different. First, at Torment 1. All legendaries can drop at Torment 1 and there is a 10% chance that a legendary drop is an ancient legendary. The second time is when you reach GR70. Once on character on your account gets to GR70, all characters can have Primal legendaries drop on any difficulty. This is an ancient legendary with max stats.
In other words - torment 1-13 are the same when it comes to what can drop. And if you have 1 character at or past GR70, all legendary drops from torment 1-13 are the same. The difference is the drop rate. Which brings me to me original point, "in Diablo you are incentivized to do the highest difficulty you can while maintaining a fast time."
I think that some people like this style of play, and I'm fine with that. I just don't like it. Farming efficiency is boring to me. I think this is my last post so I will say this - I think Diablo 3 has the best gameplay by far than the other ARPGs mentioned earlier. The ability to level one character and get multiple builds out of it is nice. I find it strange that they put so much emphasis on set pieces, but still find using those set pieces interesting. I generally like Diablo 3. I just don't like the way they handle difficulty.
Anyway, Blizzard didn't do a very good job in running warden often and catching people. They just blamed the engine and old BNET and left players to deal with it.