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PUBG and Fortnite – The Drama Continues - General Columns

SBFordSBFord Former Associate EditorMember LegendaryPosts: 33,126
edited September 2017 in News & Features Discussion

imagePUBG and Fortnite – The Drama Continues - General Columns

This week Fortnite launched their Battle Royale expansion giving players the chance to compete against each other in a hunger games style scenario. Many people in video games will try new things and usually see modes of games coming into play from other games in the market. This is how it has been for years. That is until the news that Player Unknown Battlegrounds is clearly not happy with the Battle Royale style content. So what happens now?

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Comments

  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Member LegendaryPosts: 8,483
    Am I understanding correctly that they're attempting to lay exclusive claim to the Battle Royale game mode?

    If so, someone needs to give the team behind PUBG a swift kick in the ass.
    AsheramKillingPixelsAvarixJakeSimunfilteredJWPhrysirchristheLackingMMOPhaedruslivesBillMurphyand 23 others.

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  • saintriku92saintriku92 Member UncommonPosts: 87
    How Can they sue them? They don't own the idea for drop in and out 1st/3rd person battle royal, You'd think they would focus on fixing the game up a bit instead of dumb drama shit. Reminds me of when bethesda/zenimax tried to sue over the term Scrolls in a video game. Are you kidding?
    sirchristheOzmodanThupliLordKarl
  • thighhighsthighhighs Member UncommonPosts: 29
    lol greedy assholes. fortnite looks like an impressive and unique take on the battle royale arena game mode. if anything there is a huge amount of difference just because of the building/crafting aspect.
    KillingPixelssirchristhevito11Signexversulas
  • AsheramAsheram Member EpicPosts: 3,908
    edited September 2017
    In light of Frenchie and xelus' follow up I rescind this post.
    Post edited by Asheram on
  • RhoklawRhoklaw Member EpicPosts: 6,614
    I own oxygen, so you all need to stop breathing!
    AsheramPhrysirchristheCyber_wastelandRhygarthNycteliosMrMelGibsonTybostvito11Leguma11and 4 others.

  • Grunt350Grunt350 Member UncommonPosts: 56
    Why I'm feeling that this polemic is just only a strategy of publicity for fortnite.
    SomeHumanRighteous_RockLordKarl
  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Member LegendaryPosts: 8,483
    edited September 2017
    They weren't even the first to implement the game mode in their title.

    This is one of those times where review bombs might be needed to send a message to the team behind the title.  With Valve's histogram system, it would be quite clear to everyone what the underlying message is behind it.

    image
  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Member LegendaryPosts: 8,483
    edited September 2017
    However, in the interest of fairness...


    http://www.pcgamer.com/pubg-exec-clarifies-objection-to-fortnite-battle-royale-its-not-about-the-idea-itself-its-about-epic-games/

    Seems the specific issue is that PUBG is paying royalties to Epic for using their engine, and now Epic is creating a direct competitor.  That complicates things.
    AsheramVrikaandredocbartoni33jimmywolfXyiresschrupp

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  • AsheramAsheram Member EpicPosts: 3,908
    edited September 2017
    Surely with Tera and Devilian and several mobile games under their belt they could afford to develop their own game engine.
    Post edited by Asheram on
    MadFrenchie
  • XelusXelus Member UncommonPosts: 3


    Am I understanding correctly that they're attempting to lay exclusive claim to the Battle Royale game mode?



    If so, someone needs to give the team behind PUBG a swift kick in the ass.



    People keep reading this as they are laying claim to battle royale. And they are not.

    PC Gamer: So it's not the mode you guys have an issue with. From your statement or your press release earlier today, it said that there were similarities in the UI, and the other things mentioned were the gameplay and structural replication in the battle royale mode. Can you specify exactly, if you're not objecting to a battle royale mode in another game, then what do you mean by concerns about gameplay?

    There are a lot of different issues but everyone else that released a battle royale game mode made their own thing, but it was Epic Games that made this game that is similar to us that has similar elements, and that's the concern, that it was Epic Games.

    We use Unreal Engine to develop PUBG, and we pay a large amount of royalties based on the size of our success to Epic Games, and Epic Games always promoted their licensing models [saying] "We want to support the success indie developers", and [Bluehole is] this indie developer that has been the most successful one using the Unreal Engine this year, and that's the problem that I see.
    Asherammrputts
  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Member LegendaryPosts: 8,483
    Xelus said:


    Am I understanding correctly that they're attempting to lay exclusive claim to the Battle Royale game mode?



    If so, someone needs to give the team behind PUBG a swift kick in the ass.



    People keep reading this as they are laying claim to battle royale. And they are not.

    PC Gamer: So it's not the mode you guys have an issue with. From your statement or your press release earlier today, it said that there were similarities in the UI, and the other things mentioned were the gameplay and structural replication in the battle royale mode. Can you specify exactly, if you're not objecting to a battle royale mode in another game, then what do you mean by concerns about gameplay?

    There are a lot of different issues but everyone else that released a battle royale game mode made their own thing, but it was Epic Games that made this game that is similar to us that has similar elements, and that's the concern, that it was Epic Games.

    We use Unreal Engine to develop PUBG, and we pay a large amount of royalties based on the size of our success to Epic Games, and Epic Games always promoted their licensing models [saying] "We want to support the success indie developers", and [Bluehole is] this indie developer that has been the most successful one using the Unreal Engine this year, and that's the problem that I see.
    That's why I came back with the following post after doing some more research on it.

    I agree, it's a more complicated issue than first glance, but Epic spent the money to create their engine, so they can make whatever game they want with it regardless of who might be using the engine in the same genre.

    Now, if they started trying to renegotiate the royalties in a way that would be crippling to PUBG, there's a legitimate concern there.
    Signexgearchin13

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  • XingbairongXingbairong Member RarePosts: 927


    However, in the interest of fairness...


    http://www.pcgamer.com/pubg-exec-clarifies-objection-to-fortnite-battle-royale-its-not-about-the-idea-itself-its-about-epic-games/

    Seems the specific issue is that PUBG is paying royalties to Epic for using their engine, and now Epic is creating a direct competitor.  That complicates things.



    If there are no documents signed in advance that Epic won't do similar titles/modes etc... then I don't see what PUBG are expecting.
    Should Epic not do any games in these genres because they are getting royalties from companies that use their product... That's just idiotic.
    I really hope that PUBG gets a bit of negative response from this and players boycott the game if even for 2 days. If developers stop stealing ideas from other games we will see less and less good titles... I know that by logic that should motivate developers to create new stuff, but the fact is that there's a ton of good stuff that other good games or games that failed and closed down thought of and other developers picked those ideas and made them better, PUBG being one such thing.
  • HeraseHerase Member RarePosts: 992


    However, in the interest of fairness...


    http://www.pcgamer.com/pubg-exec-clarifies-objection-to-fortnite-battle-royale-its-not-about-the-idea-itself-its-about-epic-games/

    Seems the specific issue is that PUBG is paying royalties to Epic for using their engine, and now Epic is creating a direct competitor.  That complicates things.



    Lets be honest here, in no way is Fortnights BR going to be any sort of competition to them. Period.

    No disrespect to the Epic team, heck they even said they made the game in homage to PUBG , but PUBG is probably the top played game on Steam and Twitch, if they honestly think the game is going to even touch their number or players, they must be smoking some strong ass shit at BHole
  • saintriku92saintriku92 Member UncommonPosts: 87
    "but it was Epic Games that made this game that is similar to us that has similar elements, and that's the concern"? So because they pay them money to use that engine..They dont like the idea of them becoming a competitor? or am i misunderstanding?
  • laxielaxie Member RarePosts: 1,052
    Doesn't Fortnite have crafting and harvesting as part of their Battle Royale? I've never tried the game mode, so I don't know if those features are in the PvP mode.

    If so, then I think the arguing for similarity to PUBG is paper thin. It would be much more dissimilar to PUBG than the large majority of battle royale games. I don't think PUBG has much ground here - it would be terrible if they went to court and the court ruled in PUBG's favour.
  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Member LegendaryPosts: 8,483


    However, in the interest of fairness...


    http://www.pcgamer.com/pubg-exec-clarifies-objection-to-fortnite-battle-royale-its-not-about-the-idea-itself-its-about-epic-games/

    Seems the specific issue is that PUBG is paying royalties to Epic for using their engine, and now Epic is creating a direct competitor.  That complicates things.



    If there are no documents signed in advance that Epic won't do similar titles/modes etc... then I don't see what PUBG are expecting.
    Should Epic not do any games in these genres because they are getting royalties from companies that use their product... That's just idiotic.
    I really hope that PUBG gets a bit of negative response from this and players boycott the game if even for 2 days. If developers stop stealing ideas from other games we will see less and less good titles... I know that by logic that should motivate developers to create new stuff, but the fact is that there's a ton of good stuff that other good games or games that failed and closed down thought of and other developers picked those ideas and made them better, PUBG being one such thing.
    Yea, unless Epic is using the royalties to pressure PUBG towards a certain end, they have every right to develop their own entry in the genre.
    Xingbairong

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  • Thomas2006Thomas2006 Member RarePosts: 1,137
    Xelus said:


    Am I understanding correctly that they're attempting to lay exclusive claim to the Battle Royale game mode?



    If so, someone needs to give the team behind PUBG a swift kick in the ass.



    People keep reading this as they are laying claim to battle royale. And they are not.

    PC Gamer: So it's not the mode you guys have an issue with. From your statement or your press release earlier today, it said that there were similarities in the UI, and the other things mentioned were the gameplay and structural replication in the battle royale mode. Can you specify exactly, if you're not objecting to a battle royale mode in another game, then what do you mean by concerns about gameplay?

    There are a lot of different issues but everyone else that released a battle royale game mode made their own thing, but it was Epic Games that made this game that is similar to us that has similar elements, and that's the concern, that it was Epic Games.

    We use Unreal Engine to develop PUBG, and we pay a large amount of royalties based on the size of our success to Epic Games, and Epic Games always promoted their licensing models [saying] "We want to support the success indie developers", and [Bluehole is] this indie developer that has been the most successful one using the Unreal Engine this year, and that's the problem that I see.
    Bluehole Studio is not a indie company in any WAY. They are a multinational company with offices in the US and overseas. They also have many mobile games released and several PC games released.

    But at the end of the day that really doesnt matter. They choose to use Epic Games Unreal Engine instead of making there own engine and there is ZERO that says Epic Games can not make any type of game they choose to do so.

    I get the feeling that PUBG is scared and that is what is driving all this drama. They feel that Fortnites Free to Play Battle Royal Game is going to be a real competer to them and they should feel that way.  That have been struggling with lag issues and hit detection issues and from the early tests of the Fortnite Battle Royal show that epic has there house in order already (I didnt see or notice any lag - but I could be wrong there).

    And if Epic Games chooses to push it as a esports style game, they could really get behind tournaments and such as money is no real issue at this stage for Epic Games and they could easily match PUBG value for value and/or exceeding that in any tournament rewards.
    AsheramTorval
  • MaxBaconMaxBacon Member EpicPosts: 7,139
    edited September 2017
    They use Unreal Engine to develop their game.

    The company who develops Fortnite created the Unreal Engine, base the claim surrounding that, what would be the responsibility of the creator of the engine because they develop a direct competitor under the same engine?
  • RhoklawRhoklaw Member EpicPosts: 6,614
    However, in the interest of fairness...


    http://www.pcgamer.com/pubg-exec-clarifies-objection-to-fortnite-battle-royale-its-not-about-the-idea-itself-its-about-epic-games/

    Seems the specific issue is that PUBG is paying royalties to Epic for using their engine, and now Epic is creating a direct competitor.  That complicates things.
    There's a difference between licensing an engine and copying an idea. It's not like Fortnite ripped the code from PUBG and plugged it into their game. Better argument would be, that BlueHole doesn't have to license Unreal Engine. They can always make their own engine and it can look, smell, taste and feel exactly like Unreal Engine. Copying ideas is not illegal. Copying blueprints, code or other engineering aspects is.
    XingbairongCrazKanuk

  • SpottyGekkoSpottyGekko Member EpicPosts: 6,912
    I don't think Bluehole have a leg to stand on here, but this case sends a clear signal to any indie devs using UE though. They need to be aware that the company who owns UE is also a possible competitor...
    AsheramTorval
  • laxielaxie Member RarePosts: 1,052
    MaxBacon said:
    They use Unreal Engine to develop their game.

    The company who develops Fortnite created the Unreal Engine, base the claim surrounding that, what would be the responsibility of the creator of the engine because there's a direct competitor under the same engine?
    I think it's entirely driven by the license. There is no special relationship, unless you define it in a signed contract. There probably isn't a clause about the engine developer not creating their own games. They would have to argue Epic infringes on their intellectual property, which would come down to the way the "battle royale" mode is expressed. Because PUBG is soldiers running in Russian towns and Fortnite is cartoon zombies and pinatas, this would be stretching it extremely far. A successful court case on that basis would be the end of game development as we know it.

    The only issue I can see is if the license stated Epic will provide engine support and service X Y Z, and then failed to do so (intentionally or not). I think you could say this damaged the value of the PUBG brand and could claim some reparations, which would be pretty substantial, given the popularity of the game. But there is no evidence of anything like that happening - and judging by the interview posted a few posts above, I don't think Epic violated the delivery of their licensed service. PUBG seems to be talking in hypotheticals.
    MadFrenchieTorval
  • AlbatroesAlbatroes Member LegendaryPosts: 6,740
    Pretty stupid on PUBG's part. All this is going to do is make Fortnite look better. Its like saying any moba after LoL/Dota2 is copying if it has a 3 lane mode with towers
    Scellow
  • WellspringWellspring Member EpicPosts: 1,200
    This article makes me glad not to have played PUBG.
    Scelloweugheuforcegearchin13
    --------------------------------------------
  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Member LegendaryPosts: 8,483
    Rhoklaw said:
    However, in the interest of fairness...


    http://www.pcgamer.com/pubg-exec-clarifies-objection-to-fortnite-battle-royale-its-not-about-the-idea-itself-its-about-epic-games/

    Seems the specific issue is that PUBG is paying royalties to Epic for using their engine, and now Epic is creating a direct competitor.  That complicates things.
    There's a difference between licensing an engine and copying an idea. It's not like Fortnite ripped the code from PUBG and plugged it into their game. Better argument would be, that BlueHole doesn't have to license Unreal Engine. They can always make their own engine and it can look, smell, taste and feel exactly like Unreal Engine. Copying ideas is not illegal. Copying blueprints, code or other engineering aspects is.
    Yea, unless Epic was in some way attempting to leverage their agreement to pressure PUBG a certain way or destroy the popularity of the game, I don't think PUBG is going to get anywhere with this.

    However, it was worth noting that PUBG wasn't specifically trying to say they have exclusive rights to battle royale in general.
    Torval

    image
  • MaxBaconMaxBacon Member EpicPosts: 7,139
    laxie said:
    I think it's entirely driven by the license. There is no special relationship, unless you define it in a signed contract. There probably isn't a clause about the engine developer not creating their own games. They would have to argue Epic infringes on their intellectual property, which would come down to the way the "battle royale" mode is expressed. Because PUBG is soldiers running in Russian towns and Fortnite is cartoon zombies and pinatas, this would be stretching it extremely far. A successful court case on that basis would be the end of game development as we know it.

    The only issue I can see is if the license stated Epic will provide engine support and service X Y Z, and then failed to do so (intentionally or not). I think you could say this damaged the value of the PUBG brand and could claim some reparations, which would be pretty substantial, given the popularity of the game. But there is no evidence of anything like that happening - and judging by the interview posted a few posts above, I don't think Epic violated the delivery of their licensed service. PUBG seems to be talking in hypotheticals.
    That's more of a ridiculous stretch. If it was that easy to pull straws to sue COD and BF would be sueing each other all time. A PvP type map as this is something that already before, even so, even if they had the idea of it copying it still isn't a problem, stealing code/assets is.
    laxieExcession
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