The colored report thing with all the dates was clearly made to show a time table, and it was clearly made to appease people who want tyo know whats going on.
rodarin said: And the announcements were made that all the work would speed up? And how that now (and now was over 6 months ago) that all the base and core foundations were in place it had become a simple matter of plug and play? Remember those? So what happened?
Base and system foundations are what 3.0 iterates most on, so you answer your own question, the process can't speed up until the base is properly setup and that is the hardest part of the process which shows is where they are struggling on after implementing much new code to reach a releasable state.
The colored report thing with all the dates was clearly made to show a time table, and it was clearly made to appease people who want tyo know whats going on.
rodarin said: And the announcements were made that all the work would speed up? And how that now (and now was over 6 months ago) that all the base and core foundations were in place it had become a simple matter of plug and play? Remember those? So what happened?
Base and system foundations are what 3.0 iterates most on, so you answer your own question, the process can't speed up until the base is properly setup and that is the hardest part of the process which shows is where they are struggling on after implementing much new code to reach a releasable state.
No offense, but at the rate of delays they've been enduring, December could, in fact, see the release of 3.0.
I'm, frankly, tired of hearing about the pains of childbirth reference 3.0. Just show us the baby already.
No offense, but at the rate of delays they've been enduring, December could, in fact, see the release of 3.0.
I'm, frankly, tired of hearing about the pains of childbirth reference 3.0. Just show us the baby already.
It's not one easy situation, but even talking with the devs I know or inside the people I know they are not doing "make-believe progress", neither relaxed about it, they are simply going through the nightmare that is all the pieces of engine tech and backend that were from months to years in-dev being merged into a single-build that they need to stabilize until it works properly.
Don't think it's just frustrating to us and not them, but I'd find they should work out their communication to minimize the wearing down effect this schedule has had in the future.
No offense, but at the rate of delays they've been enduring, December could, in fact, see the release of 3.0.
I'm, frankly, tired of hearing about the pains of childbirth reference 3.0. Just show us the baby already.
It's not one easy situation, but even talking with the devs I know or inside the people I know they are not doing "make-believe progress", neither relaxed about it, they are simply going through the nightmare that is all the pieces of engine tech and backend that were from months to years in-dev being merged into a single-build that they need to stabilize until it works properly.
Don't think it's just frustrating to us and not them, but I'd find they should work out their communication to minimize the wearing down effect this schedule has had in the future.
we know by now these guys dont know what anyone else is doing. its called plausible deniability I have said it for a couple years now that I dont think anyone there knows everything. So talking with anyone is really not going to tell you anything. They all probably think theyre moving forward but we know that for the past 3 years or so since they have tried to be a little more forthcoming its 2 steps forward 10 steps back.
Theyre running out of outsourced people to blame or outside influences. Unless of course they start blaming Amazon. Which is the next step I am sure.
Its really embarrassing at this point watching all these shoe string companies come along and release demos and head starts and be far and away better at actually making a game than a company with all the resources in the world.
No offense, but at the rate of delays they've been enduring, December could, in fact, see the release of 3.0.
I'm, frankly, tired of hearing about the pains of childbirth reference 3.0. Just show us the baby already.
Reminds me of how people were thinking December could see the release of 3.0.... last year.
Truthfully I'm actually expecting 3.0 to be delayed further than that, assuming what they release resembles what was intended for 3.0, at least. Too many moving parts that come from fixing all the bugs in their list as well as porting that demo they had at the con to something that would function on a larger scale and adding enough stuff to it that it has something of actual substance to it. It all just seems like even December might be optimistic for such a big transformation.
"This week we’ve got good news on the bug fixing front as we’ve taken a giant leap toward our objective of getting Star Citizen Alpha 3.0 into the hands of the Evocati. Last week’s report indicated a total of 76 must-fix issues and this week we are down to 26. While a number of these bugs were simply resolved due to the team’s usual endeavors, our directors reviews have been keenly focused on core player loops which has led to a redefinition of must-fix.
In short, we’ve decided that we need to get this into Evocati hands sooner rather than later. We are simply going to accept that there will still be additional issues to resolve, but we want your feedback now, so we have readjusted our numbers to reflect bugs that are blocking the core experience (gameplay loops, missions, commodities and shopping, to name a few). We want you traversing the universe, landing on planets and generally testing 3.0 while we continue to polish and bug fix more features that can then be passed along for testing. We can then prioritize any new issues that come up, but it will accelerate the process so we can advance 3.0 much quicker to the PU and ultimately to our entire player base. We’ll be back next week with another update on how we’re doing.."
"This week we’ve got good news on the bug fixing front as we’ve taken a giant leap toward our objective of getting Star Citizen Alpha 3.0 into the hands of the Evocati. Last week’s report indicated a total of 76 must-fix issues and this week we are down to 26. While a number of these bugs were simply resolved due to the team’s usual endeavors, our directors reviews have been keenly focused on core player loops which has led to a redefinition of must-fix.
In short, we’ve decided that we need to get this into Evocati hands sooner rather than later. We are simply going to accept that there will still be additional issues to resolve, but we want your feedback now, so we have readjusted our numbers to reflect bugs that are blocking the core experience (gameplay loops, missions, commodities and shopping, to name a few). We want you traversing the universe, landing on planets and generally testing 3.0 while we continue to polish and bug fix more features that can then be passed along for testing. We can then prioritize any new issues that come up, but it will accelerate the process so we can advance 3.0 much quicker to the PU and ultimately to our entire player base. We’ll be back next week with another update on how we’re doing.."
Does that mean they talked away ~50 formally game breaking bugs instead of fixing?
No they probably filed them away into the moderate category which isn't being shown anymore. Amazing how you can make things look really good if oh just recategorize something and then get rid of that category in your reporting statistic
Does that mean they talked away ~50 formally game breaking bugs instead of fixing?
They as you seen from the graph prioritized mostly the Blockers as what is must-fix before Evocati.
This is just to be able to do the first release sooner rather than later, those dozens of bugs + anything else Evocati brings up will be fixed during that phase.
Then a list of bugs for the PTU specifically is made, that will require the build to be more stable and functional, but at that point, most blockers should have been dealt with.
Back when RSI released first production schedule for 3.0.0 they were hoping to start Evocati testing on June 5th.
They've now used 300% of the time they originally estimated they'd need and still haven't released Evocati.
Yep. A fail as far as Not good on the estimating / scheduling / work flow side of things goes.
In turn this generates "pressure". The very sort of pressure that they declared - after getting alpha 1.0 out of the door that they would avoid by doing "small, frequent releases".
I can understand the attraction and benefits of "big releases" but when the call went out to the teams to only put down what they could achieve in 3 months ....... either people got carried away and/or there was no push back and/or management at some level said things like" surely that won't take that long. Whatever.
Yes some extra stuff has been finished but this is incidental. Some extra work on 3.1 that won't be in 3.0 will have happened as well. This is secondary though. The goal was to have a "big update" out by the end of June. 3 months. It hasn't happened.
Thankfully they seem to have remembered that this is "an alpha" and Evocati are testers and that bugs are expected. It doesn't have to be "perfect" only "good enough to push out for more testing". End of September will be 6 months - wouldn't surprise me if this is the Evocati coming ready or not drop dead date.
As much as they might like to squash every bug they - the teams - have made a rod for themselves and macro factors will now dictate that 3.0 has to advance.
Yay they are down to 7 (in words SE7EN) gamebreaking bugs before release to Avo Evocati! But no Super Dev came in to fix the stuff, ...no... way better(!!!11oneone), 13 (in words Thirteen) Bugs have been handwaffled away to be not so gamebreaky as last Week! 6 fixed, 13 gone with the wind for a total of 63 Gamebreaking bugs magically not so important ...
I am soooo excited! This opens a new dimension of Youtube Videos!
Edit: Either (a) they wanted to draw batman with this graph or (b) the graph is graphing its own credibility.
When you have cake, it is not the cake that creates the most magnificent of experiences, but it is the emotions attached to it. The cake is a lie.
I am soooo excited! This opens a new dimension of Youtube Videos!
Edit: Either (a) they wanted to draw batman with this graph or (b) the graph is graphing its own credibility.
This is Evocati, there are no videos, no released footage of this builds (NDA).
Not sure if you are missing the point on purpose, they want to start the Evocati sooner and fix those dozens of issues in batches during that testing, before PTU. The graph lies accurately for what it is.
How will this work out? 75% of the bugs have been classified as not important, when they are fixing them the fix needed to be tested as every build they roll out by the evocati ... so this build is for evocati then they start to fix the remaining 63 bugs and push it to evocati and maybe one day to live if all is fixed? I guess they want to hammer it out to public by at least nov for the sales. To reach that goal the build has to be to evocati in the next two weeks. the remaining 63 bugs that were blockers not long ago will be fixed after 3.0 is rolled out.
When you have cake, it is not the cake that creates the most magnificent of experiences, but it is the emotions attached to it. The cake is a lie.
Releasing to Evocati will show even more bugs, just like the 2.0 build was released with several bugs and crashes that only allowed for like 5-10 minutes of gameplay. Those were eventually squashed while other ones appeared in other builds. Just normal game development taking its course.
How will this work out? 75% of the bugs have been classified as not important, when they are fixing them the fix needed to be tested as every build they roll out by the evocati ... so this build is for evocati then they start to fix the rest and push it to evocati and maybe one day to live if all is fixed? I guess they want to hammer it out to public by at least nov for the sales. To reach that goal the build has to be to evocati in the next two weeks. the remaining 63 bugs that were blockers not long ago will be fixed after 3.0 is rolled out.
Shows it prioritized an X set of features to be fixed for Evocati, then as testing starts they'll focus on the rest. Evocati will release and will continue to be patched to fix and bring more functionality online as it is expected.
The Evocati builds are not the live RC, the RC will be the last builds of the PTU.
How will this work out? 75% of the bugs have been classified as not important, when they are fixing them the fix needed to be tested as every build they roll out by the evocati ... so this build is for evocati then they start to fix the rest and push it to evocati and maybe one day to live if all is fixed? I guess they want to hammer it out to public by at least nov for the sales. To reach that goal the build has to be to evocati in the next two weeks. the remaining 63 bugs that were blockers not long ago will be fixed after 3.0 is rolled out.
Shows it prioritized an X set of features to be fixed for Evocati, then as testing starts they'll focus on the rest. Evocati will release and will continue to be patched to fix and bring more functionality online as it is expected.
The Evocati builds are not the live RC, the RC will be the last builds of the PTU.
yes indeed ... so it stays at evocati until all formally Burn Down bugs are fixed?
When you have cake, it is not the cake that creates the most magnificent of experiences, but it is the emotions attached to it. The cake is a lie.
yes indeed ... so it stays at evocati until all formally Burn Down bugs are fixed?
That depends either they are imposing or not to PTU, but safe to assume those will just be a part of how many will be brought up during the evocati (and those might or might not be imposing for the PTU to release).
Comments
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/media/d48wfn826is8rr/source/EndofYear_PUTimeline_09152017.png
Into something far more readable.
Base and system foundations are what 3.0 iterates most on, so you answer your own question, the process can't speed up until the base is properly setup and that is the hardest part of the process which shows is where they are struggling on after implementing much new code to reach a releasable state.
A creative person is motivated by the desire to achieve, not the desire to beat others.
A creative person is motivated by the desire to achieve, not the desire to beat others.
I'm, frankly, tired of hearing about the pains of childbirth reference 3.0. Just show us the baby already.
Don't think it's just frustrating to us and not them, but I'd find they should work out their communication to minimize the wearing down effect this schedule has had in the future.
Theyre running out of outsourced people to blame or outside influences. Unless of course they start blaming Amazon. Which is the next step I am sure.
Its really embarrassing at this point watching all these shoe string companies come along and release demos and head starts and be far and away better at actually making a game than a company with all the resources in the world.
Truthfully I'm actually expecting 3.0 to be delayed further than that, assuming what they release resembles what was intended for 3.0, at least. Too many moving parts that come from fixing all the bugs in their list as well as porting that demo they had at the con to something that would function on a larger scale and adding enough stuff to it that it has something of actual substance to it. It all just seems like even December might be optimistic for such a big transformation.
When you have cake, it is not the cake that creates the most magnificent of experiences, but it is the emotions attached to it.
The cake is a lie.
This is just to be able to do the first release sooner rather than later, those dozens of bugs + anything else Evocati brings up will be fixed during that phase.
Then a list of bugs for the PTU specifically is made, that will require the build to be more stable and functional, but at that point, most blockers should have been dealt with.
@Lateris that should also explain it.
A bit over one month later, there are now 11 blockers.
Gotta love programming massive amounts of code. It's like, there's always the chance of a fun new surprise around every corner!
Even in released MMO's we notice this once they do updates and break things previously working, and that's just the stuff QA misses out on.
But in SC it's more because 3.0 is so heavy in new tech and back-end; if it was just a feature/content update would be much easier to work out.
They've now used 300% of the time they originally estimated they'd need and still haven't released Evocati.
In turn this generates "pressure". The very sort of pressure that they declared - after getting alpha 1.0 out of the door that they would avoid by doing "small, frequent releases".
I can understand the attraction and benefits of "big releases" but when the call went out to the teams to only put down what they could achieve in 3 months ....... either people got carried away and/or there was no push back and/or management at some level said things like" surely that won't take that long. Whatever.
Yes some extra stuff has been finished but this is incidental. Some extra work on 3.1 that won't be in 3.0 will have happened as well. This is secondary though. The goal was to have a "big update" out by the end of June. 3 months. It hasn't happened.
Thankfully they seem to have remembered that this is "an alpha" and Evocati are testers and that bugs are expected. It doesn't have to be "perfect" only "good enough to push out for more testing". End of September will be 6 months - wouldn't surprise me if this is the Evocati coming ready or not drop dead date.
As much as they might like to squash every bug they - the teams - have made a rod for themselves and macro factors will now dictate that 3.0 has to advance.
Yay they are down to 7 (in words SE7EN) gamebreaking bugs before release to Avo Evocati!
But no Super Dev came in to fix the stuff, ...no... way better(!!!11oneone), 13 (in words Thirteen) Bugs have been handwaffled away to be not so gamebreaky as last Week!
6 fixed, 13 gone with the wind for a total of 63 Gamebreaking bugs magically not so important ...
I am soooo excited! This opens a new dimension of Youtube Videos!
Edit: Either (a) they wanted to draw batman with this graph or (b) the graph is graphing its own credibility.
When you have cake, it is not the cake that creates the most magnificent of experiences, but it is the emotions attached to it.
The cake is a lie.
Not sure if you are missing the point on purpose, they want to start the Evocati sooner and fix those dozens of issues in batches during that testing, before PTU. The graph lies accurately for what it is.
I guess they want to hammer it out to public by at least nov for the sales. To reach that goal the build has to be to evocati in the next two weeks. the remaining 63 bugs that were blockers not long ago will be fixed after 3.0 is rolled out.
When you have cake, it is not the cake that creates the most magnificent of experiences, but it is the emotions attached to it.
The cake is a lie.
The Evocati builds are not the live RC, the RC will be the last builds of the PTU.
When you have cake, it is not the cake that creates the most magnificent of experiences, but it is the emotions attached to it.
The cake is a lie.