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PVP in MMORPGs...

Impulse47Impulse47 Member UncommonPosts: 159

I'm going to have to say that out of the MMORPGs that I have played, Asheron's Call: Darktide Server (note: NOT the carebear servers) has the best PVP out of all of the games listed on this site. Dark Age of Camelot was okay, except for the fact that RVR is like playing rock paper scissors, and there is not a whole lot of player skill involved in determining victors (it is almost all based on character level + who has more health to start with). In AC, your vitals were renewable through spells/heal kits etc, whereas DAoC you just pound at your enemy until someone's vitals run out first. Thus, I quit DAoC. I also quit AC because Decal, all of the other third party apps, and XP chains ruined the game and made it nothing more than a cheater's haven. I tried Shadowbane after that, which was kinda fun PVP-wise, but had WAY too many bugs and exploits (there were what, 20 different dupe methods when it first came out?), plus an overall crappy engine and design (who the hell codes in java anymore). I heard the PVP in Everquest sucked hard, so I didn't try it. Currently, I am playing Planetside, which is a 100% PVP game, and it is alright, but anyone who plays it will tell you that there are too many memory leaks in it and it runs slow as hell on even the fastest computers. Plus the customer service in the game is next to zero, so I'm ready to find a new game.

I've heard that Neocron is pretty cool for PVP, but also that almost no-one plays it. I think I will try the 10-day free trial though. Also, are Lineage 2 and WoW going to have pvp? I might try them too if so.

Anyone have any other suggestions?

Comments

  • Impulse47Impulse47 Member UncommonPosts: 159

    Heh didn't notice the thread below...

    BTW, I will just say this: DAoC RVR IS NOT PVP. Mythic dumbed it down so much that it more closely resembles PVM than PVP. I mean seriously, you don't see their actual names, you see Skiltvatken, which is more reminiscent of a mob than a person. It plays the exact same as fighting mobs, except sometimes they run, but mainly it is just a 20 vs 20 or so cluster**** in which the group with the highest levels wins... much like you would expect in PVM. There is no fear involved like in AC (pre-decal) or UO (pre-trammel), and you dont even lose items when you die. It is carebear.

    They tried too hard to integrate pvp as a part of the game, and thus turned it into a mechanical process similar to the level grind.

  • ianubisiianubisi Member Posts: 4,201
    All the more reason I feel PvP should either be completely on or completely off in MMOGs.  Whenever there is a mixture of PvP and PvM, where PvM players are protected from PvP, the result is a lot of compromise and very few happy people on the PvP side.

  • TMcCTMcC Member Posts: 218

    If you guys are looking for a game in the making thats gonna be all out pvp with no carebear servers ect, you should read up on Dragon Empires and Darkfall. I dont understand why these games are having different pvp servers. I mean history repeats itself, you would think theyd realize once the servers are split for pvp the games take a big blow on money/players.....

     

  • lyonman24lyonman24 Member Posts: 855
    OMG ppl ok if you played to 50 you would find out it has nothing to do with level in daoc. unless its a level 50v30 then its level even then i have seen a 30 win. large zerges the win goes to the group who mezzes the other first plain and simple. but also depends if the unmezzed group reacts correctly. so smart decisions and timing is everything. with my 30 skald i can take 2 level 33 albs at once so when you play the game and just dont make a decision based on the fact you cant play that char type then you can talk about the game being unbalanced. bg's are great fun but give ppl who only play till level 20 a bad image. also daoc isnt everyones cup of tea. not all ppl like the same game. like i dont bash EQ because i didnt like it mostly because i didnt play to endgame and then make a decision. most games out there the fun is in the endgame not the beginning of it. rvr is skill base and alot of luck and timing.  

  • genstylegenstyle Member UncommonPosts: 19

    Daoc, those names were used as ranks to signify the rank of certain players and how many people they have killed (realm points based) and its not anything like rock paper scissors.  Most good groups do 8v8 battles and end up being the best group vs group combat you can find, ecspecially if you have the right classes.  If you didnt realize its not lvl at all its items/skills in a group combined to make an effort you cant just have a group of all the same thing or something that doesnt cooperate with the others.  You need balance in your group.  (yes I had 2 lvl 50s.)

    Second I played shadowbane also, and you say exploits/dupes gl trying that because it didnt work it was a myth, and shdaowbane had the best pvp system there is.  It forced people to socialize and gain friends in order to survive then joining a guild and building up a nations city with your friends. But most pvp in shadowbane i found to be ganking lower lvl's while they leveld up.  But i must say that it was the best raid experience when you raided into an enemy guilds town and killed them and their guards.

    #zfz on gamesnet

    #Cyberglobe on Gamesurge

  • pocket-acespocket-aces Member Posts: 1

    Okay, Where to begin?  First off, my *credentials* I've played UO, Everquest, DAoC, AC(2), Shadowbane, SWG, Planetside and beta tested EVE, Endless Ages, and a few others I've since forgotten.  I'm a comp sci grad student.

    I agree with all the complaints against DAoC.  I quit the game because RvR involved level 50 chars getting up at 3am to attack.

    UO was probably the greatest game created, untill UO:R and the later publishes destroyed it.  Private shards such as Novus, CoreFailure, and XUO helped keep it alive, but the greatness of UO is still a thing of the past.

    Shadowbane is in my opinion the best game on the market today.  After raising many characters to high levels, and being involved in multiple guilds I still was having fun.  I ran my own guild untill the tremendous time it required forced me to stop.  The main problem with Shadowbane is unbalanced classes, in-ability to freely PK (the game is made for guild vs guild, not small 1v1 or 3v3 skirmishes) and the issues resulting from alternate characters.  Almost everyone I met in SB had one or two alternate characters in different guilds, and many people used the big guilds to level up a character and then left it once their char was done.  Free-lance PvP was horrible since most guilds banned killing anyone but the one or two guilds they were at war with, and if you killed a lowbie, 90% of the time he'd relog on his level 60 and try to find you.

    My message to any who are industry insiders is this: the carebears have enough games, in fact, they have ALL the games.  Give the PKing community one game to play with.  12 year olds will complain that its unfair, newbies will claim higher level characters are preventing them from playing the game, and everqueer zealots will declare it a gankfest, but we'll thank you for it.  Our 10 dollars a month will thank you too.

    The game should have the following features:

    1) Kill anyone, no guild or level based restrictions

    2) Kill anywhere: Towns should however have guards (think early UO)

    3) Take everything: Items should not be so rare or Uber that people fear using them

    4) No or minimal XP penalty on death.

    So thats my two cents.

    All your base are Belong to us.

    All your base are Belong to us.

  • genstylegenstyle Member UncommonPosts: 19



    Originally posted by pocket-aces

    Shadowbane is in my opinion the best game on the market today.  After raising many characters to high levels, and being involved in multiple guilds I still was having fun.  I ran my own guild untill the tremendous time it required forced me to stop.  The main problem with Shadowbane is unbalanced classes, in-ability to freely PK (the game is made for guild vs guild, not small 1v1 or 3v3 skirmishes) and the issues resulting from alternate characters.  Almost everyone I met in SB had one or two alternate characters in different guilds, and many people used the big guilds to level up a character and then left it once their char was done.  Free-lance PvP was horrible since most guilds banned killing anyone but the one or two guilds they were at war with, and if you killed a lowbie, 90% of the time he'd relog on his level 60 and try to find you.



     Agreed, I had so much fun with Shadowbane.  The only down sides were the daily server reset, and the Major Major server lag at the beginning of release, and like 5 months into the game, doubt it was ever fixed.  Also the game had one problem, it would progess to a huge state and a server would become really popular.  Then you would have 1 or 2 big guilds fight and which over won would continue to destroy smaller towns until the server was overun or everybody moved on to another server.  I know my guild pushed alot of guilds off the server for lots of reason.  Wish they would of upgraded graphics a little and fixed server problems, game was great.

    #zfz on gamesnet

    #Cyberglobe on Gamesurge

  • fulmanfufulmanfu Member Posts: 1,523

    id like to know where u find the 8v8 battles in DaoC lol. its more like a zerg of at least 30, usually better than 50 all autofollw one guy, until they spot a group that has way less people, and slaughter them.

    anyway i played it since the day it came out and i really used to love it, u could go out in a 3 or 5 man group and actually have osme rvr fun, those days are long gone(so am i)

    my main was a bard, back before everyone had a bard/druid on their buffbot account and i was useful hehe, and mez is what turned most battles, of course spellcrafting has really watered that down.

  • genstylegenstyle Member UncommonPosts: 19

    You probably followed that zerg guy too, I know I did when I started.  After a while you start to tell who the good players are.  Guild members knew some aim screennames from the others on the other realms.  We also idled on irc like everyday giving specific places to meet/fight 8v8.  Also try leading a group and not following the zerg guy.  You'll find more than you expect on a populated server.

    #zfz on gamesnet

    #Cyberglobe on Gamesurge

  • Impulse47Impulse47 Member UncommonPosts: 159

    Before I quit, I had a level 50 skald on MLF, so it's not like I'm a total newbie to DAoC or the way that RVR works. You basically said whoever gets the mez first is the victor... okay, so instead of rock paper scissors, it's a coin toss. And don't try to say that casting that mez takes skill, because it doesn't. Therefore, as I stated above, DAoC PVP is carebear. I mean - the best level 50 thane could never dream of killing two other level 50 thanes (if that fight were possible), no matter how much he outskilled the other two, because DAoC is purely numerical. 50 + 50 > 50. Plus, the limitations on what each character can do basically make every single fight the same. On my skald for instance. Run around, see an enemy, cast snare, run up to him, switch to damage song, cast my two shouts, stun, wait for timer, cast my shouts again, then pound with my hammer and hope I can finish the deal. There is no other way to handle fights as a skald, and to illustrate my point about rock paper scissors a bit more: If I'm on my skald, will I be able to kill an armsman with this method? Probably not. Will I be able to kill an Elementalist? Hell yea. So instead of rock paper scissors, its something like skald armsman elementalist. (of course there are plenty more scenarios that you could think of than this).

    In Asheron's Call: Darktide, it is a common sight to see one mage take on 2 or 3 other mages of similar level and kick their asses if he outskills them in the fight. This is how PVP should be, and DAoC is far from it.

    God I wish they didn't screw over AC:DT... that was so much fun.

  • Impulse47Impulse47 Member UncommonPosts: 159

    And about Shadowbane:

    Yes, there were a TON of confirmed dupe methods at launch. How else do you think that one guy (can't remember name) on the War server had over 20 eBay auctions for 100 million gold going at once at any given time (within the first month of release no less)? A lot of dupers made a lot of money off of Shadowbane by selling their goods to people like you who refuse to believe that there are actual dupe methods. Shadowbane was a good concept, but it was pretty easy to see that the developers were newbies. Framerate during large seiges was HORRID due to their crappy programming (like I said, who the hell codes a game in java?), and if you could play for an hour and not get a sb.exe error crash you were lucky.

    I did have a lot of fun on my confessor (Inspiration of the Zealots = most overpowered skill in the game) for a little while though, until I realized all of this.

  • lyonman24lyonman24 Member Posts: 855
    impulse yes selecting the correct classes to mez first is key you hit the warriors first in front bad choice because they have purge. casters in back and healers are what you look for. but then purge comes into effect because if there is one warrior in each grp they got plenty of purges to get out of the mezz. then in turn the could mass mezz back. there are tons of out comes that are possible also depends on who leads. a good leader makes a ton of differance.  OH and MLF mids have owned that server for almost 2.5 years.

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