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Informative Document Series Reveals 'Overview of Beta 1' - Camelot Unchained - MMORPG.com

SBFordSBFord Former Associate EditorMember LegendaryPosts: 33,126
edited September 2017 in News & Features Discussion

imageInformative Document Series Reveals 'Overview of Beta 1' - Camelot Unchained - MMORPG.com

Camelot Unchained News - As Camelot Unchained motors towards beta testing (YAY!), the CSE team wants players, fans and backers to understand the driving forces present in the first round of testing. To that end, a lengthy, informative document has been prepared that currently contains fourteen chapters (two of which are not viewable by backers, but are for CSE only). Each chapter delves into various systems and features such as character creation, crafting and more.

Read the full story here



¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 


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Comments

  • TsiyaTsiya Member UncommonPosts: 280
    edited September 2017
    So torn. I want to get in on the early access but I'm so burnt on MMOs I wouldn't give it the attention it deserves. P.S. Those robes look incredible! Can't wait to wear one.
    JamesGoblin

    image

  • Truvidien88Truvidien88 Member UncommonPosts: 462
    This looks really good.
    JamesGoblin
  • WizardryWizardry Member LegendaryPosts: 17,642
    Passing along information is a pretty lazy thread.Where is the opinions HONEST ones or just any old comment ?

    if i want to just click some link i could do it at the game's site not here.Problem is i want to hear about gaming systems,the depth in design,how many systems tie together to make the game really interesting.

    I have been gaming for 35 years,i don't need to read any document on testing,if anything the entire industry NEEDS a refresher on what testing really is and i can tell you it is NOT meant to be a marketing gimmick like i see in another thread claiming "SWEEPSTAKES" for an alpha test.

    Seriously there is soooooooooo much wrong in the entire industry right now it is sickening.Where are the HONEST people,the people that truly want to see games evolve and get better,where is the information on great game designs,new systems,creativity and BASIC core features a ROLE playing game should have?
    I happened to see a word i see often in that link...."professionalism",to me that means "don't make us look bad" then the excuses about nobody is perfect and such.

    Yes i know all about nobody is perfect,yes i understand testing a Beta ...Alpha is not the FULL finished product,do developers know that?How many devs are asking full game price costs to get into testing>>>MANY if not most.You know when a developer deserves full money,when the product is finished and worthy of it.

    So yeah if there is some explaining to do ,it should be passed onto dubious developing studios and their partners.Give me GAMING news,knowledge of creative systems,depth of design,not more political agenda stuff.


    AlienShirtWizbuiz

    Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.

  • WizardryWizardry Member LegendaryPosts: 17,642
    If someone or people want to discuss a very good idea this game is bringing us,i am all ears,let's hear it,i love to hear about great systems and design,i love to hear someone is finally giving us some creativity and not just clones.
    There have been a few games longing for a following here,CU,Crowfall are two examples,these games need to give me something i can get excited about not just fluff information or pictures.
    I would hope that SOMEONE inside of the CU team could come out and tell us about the great things the game is doing "one at a time" so we can digest it,instead almost every single article we keep seeing here looks like nothing,no real game information but more like advertising or meaningless fluff just to raise awareness.

    So if someone has some great news on this game,after all these threads i have seen,share it.I might very likely say the idea is ho hum,average, or not even good,but so what,that is why ideas need to get out there,so we can figure out how to make them better,that is IF people want BETTER games?
    AlienShirt

    Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.

  • sayuusayuu Member RarePosts: 756
    Methinks someone in this thread has watched/read modern day news for so long they think that simply posting facts or information without opinion is somehow not newsworthy or lazy.

    . . .it should be the other way around, people getting mad because news stories are turned into editorials disguised as news.


    as far as the NEWS article goes, one step closer to launch.
    TsiyapantaroAlomarJamesGoblinBillMurphyRexKushmanversulas
  • UOliteUOlite Member CommonPosts: 2
    An above poster definitely sounds a bit jaded. Not every piece of info released by CU's (which is alot) team needs press digestion. If I didn't see it posted on MMORPG then i'd never would have been able to read it. I'm a backer for CU and have been for a few years.

    Sometimes there is no Astral Dominae to find when it comes to gaming. You might have been gaming for 35 years, but little has changed. If you can't see that then you'll never find any game fun ever again.
    TorvalJamesGoblin
  • TorvalTorval Member LegendaryPosts: 19,934
    UOlite said:
    An above poster definitely sounds a bit jaded. Not every piece of info released by CU's (which is alot) team needs press digestion. If I didn't see it posted on MMORPG then i'd never would have been able to read it. I'm a backer for CU and have been for a few years.

    Sometimes there is no Astral Dominae to find when it comes to gaming. You might have been gaming for 35 years, but little has changed. If you can't see that then you'll never find any game fun ever again.

    Good points. Also, there's plenty of time for dissection later. It doesn't need to be done on press release.

    I expect CSE will have a most productive post mortem over this test phase and they will use that to improve the next test cycle. I'm impressed by the test document, their organization, and thoughtful planning. This demonstrates the team knows what they want out of the test period, have communicated that, and will most certainly dissect and incorporate feedback of all kinds. I've watched CSE's development style since they've brought it public and it is impressive and well planned.

    Watching the development of this game has been fun and interesting. Here's hoping there will be more fun stuff from this test phase they'll share.
    pantaroAlomarJamesGoblin
    Fedora - A modern, free, and open source Operating System. https://getfedora.org/

    traveller, interloper, anomaly, iteration


  • toolaktoolak Member UncommonPosts: 154
    I was honestly excited about this game.. like 4 years ago. I think that games like CU and CF have really missed the boat with their small studio long production time games. Most of the old hardcore MMO lovers like me have moved on to other things in life or have adapted to the new shooting looter style like destiny and warframe. The addicts that WoW have shown that they are stuck there like glue and if not WoWing they are waiting doe the next expac. So what kind of market is left for CU and CF? Guys like me who will maybe pick up one or the other and play a few hours a week when not busy living life? New gamers whose only experiance in online gaming is BF1 and destiny? Yeah I give them a week in a player made economy sandbox. The WoW crowd that might play a bit between patches as they get their 10th toon to max ilvl? The few of the left over hardcore guys that have been hiding under rocks and bridges just waiting for the day to come? None of these groups to me will be enough by themselves to keep the games up and running for any length of time. I hate to say it but the days of MMORPGs is gone. 4 years ago if they had them going into beta they might have had a chance. But the ammount of time between the last good MMO of their type being mainstream and now has just been too much. A few years too late is my prediction.
  • JimmydeanJimmydean Member UncommonPosts: 1,284
    I am excited for games like CU, Pantheon, AOC, but the production times on these games is out of control. By the time they actually release, all the hype will have dissipated and I'm not sure I'll even remember about them.

    I like that these companies have a vision and honestly, being an old EQ player, these games appeal to me more than things like Destiny and WoW, but if they spend this long making a game and then release anything less than a masterpiece with perfect polish, how can they expect to retain/draw in players?

    I think it's a problem that is being brought into the forefront now that almost every MMORPG coming out has had to resort to the Kickstarter model, and it's hard asking money from someone for a product that may or may not be delivered in 10 years. So we get sped up timelines that these underfunded and understaffed devs just cannot make.
  • RockardRockard Member UncommonPosts: 206
    I don't understand the complains about the delay.
    The game is being built from the engine up.
    Especially older gamers should understand the magnitude of the endeavour,given the sea of games that are MMOs only by euphemism,and the sad performance of all of the AAA MMOs when under heavy load of players.
    BDO is shit.GW2 is shit.ESO is shit.
    At 200 players they burp and fart and poop and lag and desync and delay skills and behave like the inferior products(engine wise) they are.

    Give it another 18 to 24 months and cross your fingers that what CSE is building will work as designed.
    They could have the game up and running on a existing engine,and you'd all be here complaining about it not being able to handle the load and lag.
    Wouldn't that be nice.

    pantaroKyleranAlomarJamesGoblin
  • pantaropantaro Member RarePosts: 514
    Rockard said:
    I don't understand the complains about the delay.
    The game is being built from the engine up.
    Especially older gamers should understand the magnitude of the endeavour,given the sea of games that are MMOs only by euphemism,and the sad performance of all of the AAA MMOs when under heavy load of players.
    BDO is shit.GW2 is shit.ESO is shit.
    At 200 players they burp and fart and poop and lag and desync and delay skills and behave like the inferior products(engine wise) they are.

    Give it another 18 to 24 months and cross your fingers that what CSE is building will work as designed.
    They could have the game up and running on a existing engine,and you'd all be here complaining about it not being able to handle the load and lag.
    Wouldn't that be nice.

    i must have missed the memo on how it takes only a year to build a Real mmo these days or something lol
    JamesGoblin
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 36,137
    edited September 2017
    Good document, but continues to leave out a detail which should be well established and published by now, a release schedule for not only the first beta but a planned timeline to final release.  

    4 plus years is more than enough time to have this figured out.
    lancerxx

    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing FO76 at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • Thomas2006Thomas2006 Member RarePosts: 1,152
    Kyleran said:
    Good document, but continues to leave out a detail which should be well established and published by now, a release schedule for not only the first beta but a planned timeline to final release.  

    4 plus years is more than enough time to have this figured out.
    I think they have always stood by when its ready they will release it.  They are in no hurry to push it out before it is good and ready.  They have taken all the time needed upto this point and it would be just dumb to throw away that time now toward the end just to get a product out.

    also stamping a official date / time on it is not going to do anything other then give people something to complain about when that date and time comes and goes without a release because more time was needed then established.

    I want the game to be released as much as the next person. But I want a working, stable, fun, lag free game verses something now just to have something now. If it takes another 2 years or so to get to that point then so be it as I am willing to wait whatever time is needed.
    CalexTorval
  • lahnmirlahnmir Member LegendaryPosts: 3,506
    I think they are still a bit traumatised by the forced releasing of WAR, which combined with a shift in focus and scale led to disastrous results.

    When its done is fine with me, just let me know a few weeks in advance so I can get my limited founders pack  :p (Kickstarter backer in case someone thought I was serious).

    /Cheers,
    Lahnmir
    Torval
    'the only way he could nail it any better is if he used a cross.'

    Kyleran on yours sincerely 


    'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'

    Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...



    'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless. 

    It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.

    It is just huge resource waste....'

    Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer

  • TorvalTorval Member LegendaryPosts: 19,934
    Kyleran said:
    Good document, but continues to leave out a detail which should be well established and published by now, a release schedule for not only the first beta but a planned timeline to final release.  

    4 plus years is more than enough time to have this figured out.
    Typically testing documentation doesn't contain specific dates. When I've done testing or development milestones there is typically a separate document for scheduling. Testing documentation contains the what, how, why, where, and such but not the when.

    In my sorts of projects we do have a timeline but our weekly meetings establish the specific dates, times, and availabilities based on the "factors".

    I understand your desire to get some firm anchor points in the time though. It's a totally reasonable wish and I'm sure the people who will decide that want to give you one. I suspect they don't have all conditions met necessary to provide that though. It's fair to say they should have been able to meet those in four years, but it hasn't happened. I think the experience with WAR that @Thomas2006 mentioned provides a counterbalance to the desire to commit to a hard and fast release schedule.
    JamesGoblin
    Fedora - A modern, free, and open source Operating System. https://getfedora.org/

    traveller, interloper, anomaly, iteration


  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 36,137
    edited September 2017
    Torval said:
    Kyleran said:
    Good document, but continues to leave out a detail which should be well established and published by now, a release schedule for not only the first beta but a planned timeline to final release.  

    4 plus years is more than enough time to have this figured out.
    Typically testing documentation doesn't contain specific dates. When I've done testing or development milestones there is typically a separate document for scheduling. Testing documentation contains the what, how, why, where, and such but not the when.

    In my sorts of projects we do have a timeline but our weekly meetings establish the specific dates, times, and availabilities based on the "factors".

    I understand your desire to get some firm anchor points in the time though. It's a totally reasonable wish and I'm sure the people who will decide that want to give you one. I suspect they don't have all conditions met necessary to provide that though. It's fair to say they should have been able to meet those in four years, but it hasn't happened. I think the experience with WAR that @Thomas2006 mentioned provides a counterbalance to the desire to commit to a hard and fast release schedule.
    Where I work test plans typically contain start and end dates, along with duration estimates, scope, test environments, cycles if more than one, and contingency planning.

    Of course, we're working with paid company resources, who have other projects to factor in so there is a need for more specific planning which I understand.

    You may all do as you wish, be as forgiving as you would like, I'm going to continue to hold CU to the task of providing timelines and dates. 

    For all of you flexible folks, how long is enough, is it ever enough?  Some said they are fine with two more years?  Why stop there, why not 4 more years to a great game, or even 6?

    It's a question I've though of asking the SC supporters as well, is there ever a point for them when enough is enough, their patience will come to an end, or can CR (or MJ) just count on never ending support for countless years to come?

    Maybe they can from others, but not from me.

    We've all had projects that didn't go to plan, doesn't mean we run from our responsibilities to our stakeholders to be as honest and forthright as we can.

    No one says they have to put a stake in the ground, but a reasonable plan/ timeline is a fair request at this point.


    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing FO76 at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • HefaistosHefaistos Member UncommonPosts: 346
    hey CU ladies and gents,

    Im old DAOC ANdred/Mordred (FFA servers) player. There is nothing to play atm for those who love DAOC style. Pls dont ruin the game. We need daoc2 2018 gameplay. We need it badly. You are probably the last hope...
    JamesGoblin
  • TorvalTorval Member LegendaryPosts: 19,934
    We do have project timelines in separate documents. I wasn't trying to say we fly by the seat of our pants. Test documents only pertain to the details of the test. Project timelines are store in ActiveCollab, MS Project, Salesforce, or whatever system the EMR vendor or clinic umbrella corporation uses.

    In my world there are so many factors that disrupt timelines that I need to be flexible and recalculate accordingly.

    Also I would say they probably do have internal timelines just as some chapters of the test doc are hidden. They don't publish them for the obvious reasons that if they need changed the gaming masses would have a drama field day. Gamers aren't mature enough to handle big kid topics. Just look at the ridiculous SC poo thread as an example.

    Case in point, you feel entitled to a project timeline though you've not been promised one. You feel entitled to take that and own it. That's okay, but I hope you can see how that sort of aggressive scrutiny makes a project less willing.
    Fedora - A modern, free, and open source Operating System. https://getfedora.org/

    traveller, interloper, anomaly, iteration


  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Member LegendaryPosts: 8,505
    Torval said:
    Case in point, you feel entitled to a project timeline though you've not been promised one. You feel entitled to take that and own it. That's okay, but I hope you can see how that sort of aggressive scrutiny makes a project less willing.
    Are you willing submit to the argument that traditional investors are just as forgiving of missing deadlines and just as content to be kept in the dark on when they can expect a finished product?

    image
  • ConstantineMerusConstantineMerus Member EpicPosts: 2,696
    I think they should come up with a date, everything considered. Yes gamers aren't mature enough to handle stuff like that. But they asked for their monies. They have to handle the inconvenience too. If they wanted to only converse with the mature people, Kickstarter wasn't the right choice. 

    I understand your points Torval. But Ky is right. It's been too long. 

    I don't have anything against them. But I believe they should have some faith in their backers too and take the necessary heat. That's how big kids roll mate. <3
    MadFrenchie
    Constantine, The Console Poster

    • "One of the most difficult tasks men can perform, however much others may despise it, is the invention of good games and it cannot be done by men out of touch with their instinctive selves." - Carl Jung
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  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Member LegendaryPosts: 8,505
    I think they should come up with a date, everything considered. Yes gamers aren't mature enough to handle stuff like that. But they asked for their monies. They have to handle the inconvenience too. If they wanted to only converse with the mature people, Kickstarter wasn't the right choice. 

    I understand your points Torval. But Ky is right. It's been too long. 

    I don't have anything against them. But I believe they should have some faith in their backers too and take the necessary heat. That's how big kids roll mate. <3
    This is exactly my sentiments.  The fan base didn't pool millions of dollars and ask developers to come take it.  The developers moved to that platform because traditional investors weren't interested.  Nothing about that should make us give them any more slack than a traditional investor would.

    image
  • TorvalTorval Member LegendaryPosts: 19,934
    Torval said:
    Case in point, you feel entitled to a project timeline though you've not been promised one. You feel entitled to take that and own it. That's okay, but I hope you can see how that sort of aggressive scrutiny makes a project less willing.
    Are you willing submit to the argument that traditional investors are just as forgiving of missing deadlines and just as content to be kept in the dark on when they can expect a finished product?

    If I had said that or thought so then sure, but I have no idea where that "what if" came from. I'm not interested in exploring the fantasy motivations of imaginary people in an implausible scenario.
    JamesGoblin
    Fedora - A modern, free, and open source Operating System. https://getfedora.org/

    traveller, interloper, anomaly, iteration


  • TorvalTorval Member LegendaryPosts: 19,934
    I think they should come up with a date, everything considered. Yes gamers aren't mature enough to handle stuff like that. But they asked for their monies. They have to handle the inconvenience too. If they wanted to only converse with the mature people, Kickstarter wasn't the right choice. 

    I understand your points Torval. But Ky is right. It's been too long. 

    I don't have anything against them. But I believe they should have some faith in their backers too and take the necessary heat. That's how big kids roll mate. <3
    Was delivering and publishing a concrete timeline part of the deal? Yes? Then they need to pay up. No? Then you should have thought of that and what your voice and rights are before you handed over "monies" because that's what wise people do. 

    All that other stuff about Kyle's impatience and faith and entitled expectations aren't part of the bargain. That's how big kids roll.
    ConstantineMerusJamesGoblin
    Fedora - A modern, free, and open source Operating System. https://getfedora.org/

    traveller, interloper, anomaly, iteration


  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Member LegendaryPosts: 8,505
    Torval said:
    Torval said:
    Case in point, you feel entitled to a project timeline though you've not been promised one. You feel entitled to take that and own it. That's okay, but I hope you can see how that sort of aggressive scrutiny makes a project less willing.
    Are you willing submit to the argument that traditional investors are just as forgiving of missing deadlines and just as content to be kept in the dark on when they can expect a finished product?

    If I had said that or thought so then sure, but I have no idea where that "what if" came from. I'm not interested in exploring the fantasy motivations of imaginary people in an implausible scenario.
    Because that was the alternative to crowdfunding.  I see no reason why the consumer should be entitled to less information about the project than a traditional investor would warrant, except for that consumer protection laws in regards to electronic products and the Internet are relatively weak in most countries.

    image
  • ShadanwolfShadanwolf Member UncommonPosts: 2,380
    This is THE only game I really hoping to play.
    JamesGoblin
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