Here is the thing... WoW allows in the open world for thousands or more people playing together in the same virtual world. THIS is what a morph is.
Guild Wars one for example was not a MMORPG, it was a Cooperative Online RPG. Essentially a graphical lobby based RPG. Destiny is essentially a FPS with cooperative play, with a graphical lobby system. It is not a MMORPG, but what does that matter? I find that the need to classify a genre now is almost pointless.
If Destiny is a MMO, then so is Call of Duty.
MMORPG is not about the amount of players playing at once, it is more about the idea of a virtual world with thousands of people ABLE to play at once, hundred of which in the same area of a persistent online world. However even this line has been blurred so badly it is almost pointless to attempt to classify MMOs today.
For example Crowfall is considered a MMORPG, however shares more in common with a MOBA than a MMORPG.
Well that is my ramble on this. Just play what you enjoy... Genres only help you find games you may like.
Interesting points but one thing.. COD is nothing like Destiny. Have you played Destiny? serious question. Not watch on youtube but own a copy on console to play for yourself. OR COD? COD is a lobby based shooter with Single Player Mode. Literally it says so in the main menu:
Single Player Campaign Multiplayer Options
COD you load the multiplayer it asks what load out you want and it drops you into a lobby with 12 players. No real customization outside picking your weapon loadout. You do these small death match style matches on a small map like a house with a backyard (Serious) and thats it. Thats the multiplayer. No open world, no gear drops, no custom avatar, no lore to discover.. nothing.
Destiny: You load the game and the first screen is create your avatar. You wake up and get through the tutorial like ALL mmos then you get to the shared world. From there you can group up with people join fire teams or you can continue your own mission go to earth and start doing the starter quests.. once you get enough gear you can start doing open world missions with people in the world.. like you can literally group with a person who helped you take down a tough world boss because you were going solo for a bit.
Destiny has quests, raids, dailies, heroics, mounts, guilds you name it.. it has everything most MMOs have except its a smaller group of instanced people. Instead of 100-200 people a instance you get 20 a instance. Its not bad its still fun its curated list.. The game is smart about putting you near people you know or have played with before to ensure you adventure is with people you know and want to play with. You can also disregard all that and try to solo it, but at some point the game gets so hard you HAVE to get help.
The only thing Destiny has in common with COD is the FPS part. That's it.
I agree with your point about its not about the number of people, its the idea of a virtual world. That's what I've been saying about Destiny. People keep saying its not a mmo because it doesnt have the amount of people to be MASSIVE.. but still Its a virtual world maybe not the same scale as WoW but its there for those who want to see it.
anyway.. playing absolver
"Beliefs don't change facts. Facts, if you're reasonable, should change your beliefs."
"The Society that separates its scholars from its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting by fools."
Currently: Games Audio Engineer, you didn't hear what I heard, you heard what I wanted you to hear.
The definition has not changed. There is a small movement pushed by a minority of players to make the term mean absolutely nothing. This movement has not been accepted or adopted by the greater majority of MMO players.
What needs to happen is people need to stop trying to steal a term that has a specific meaning to a specific community to use for their own purposes when they supposedly don't care about this term.
The definition has not changed. There is a small movement pushed by a minority of players to make the term mean absolutely nothing. This movement has not been accepted or adopted by the greater majority of MMO players.
What needs to happen is people need to stop trying to steal a term that has a specific meaning to a specific community to use for their own purposes when they supposedly don't care about this term.
Disagree. The people holding on to the old definition of the word are the Minority. Look at youtube the people dont lie. People dont want those old style games no matter what the minority say, how many of those old style games that came out over the years failed? All of em. There is no way the people holding on to the term are the Majority.
The majority of MMO players in 2017 are not looking for old style MMO mechanics. They would quit instantly actually if they had to play those. They play games like WoW (a shell of what it was streamlined for casual play) GTA Online, Warframe and Destiny..because its easy to pick up and get into.. the hardcore barrier is gone.. all games with MMO elements but not the classic MMO you are used to. They take the streamline approach and it works..
How many people play classic runescape? Vanilla WoW? SWGemu? DAOC? Even if you add all those numbers together its not even close to the newer games. That era is dead. Its time for MMO gamers, specifically the ones holding on to that era to let it go. Its not coming back.
HOW are they stealing a term also? MMO term doesnt belong to anybody. Its a term used to describe a hobby we all share.. some of us choose to move on to new frontiers.. others are going down with the sinking ship.. thats just how it is but neither side owns the term, thats just bs. The term describes a type of game we all like.
Ive been playing MMO's since the early 2000s also, my first being runescape, Im in my early 30s, So ive been around to see all MMOs since the year 2000.. i played RS for years until wow then i got that, then i got swg..I moved on to diff games, Ive had my favs, Put in 1000s of hours on XB Destiny, im playing absolver waiting for destiny 2. See I'm a Gamer in general I love games always will.. MMOs are my favorite and I refuse to ignore the new ones because Im too afraid or stubborn to give whats happening now a chance.
"Beliefs don't change facts. Facts, if you're reasonable, should change your beliefs."
"The Society that separates its scholars from its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting by fools."
Currently: Games Audio Engineer, you didn't hear what I heard, you heard what I wanted you to hear.
The definition has not changed. There is a small movement pushed by a minority of players to make the term mean absolutely nothing. This movement has not been accepted or adopted by the greater majority of MMO players.
What needs to happen is people need to stop trying to steal a term that has a specific meaning to a specific community to use for their own purposes when they supposedly don't care about this term.
Disagree. The people holding on to the old definition of the word are the Minority. Look at youtube the people dont lie. People dont want those old style games no matter what the minority say, how many of those old style games that came out over the years failed? All of em. There is no way the people holding on to the term are the Majority.
Where the your logic falls short is in your assumption that people who don't want to play MMOs care about the term MMO.
Yes, MMOs are a genre in decline. I've never argued anything else. But the majority of people who want to play an "MMO" want to play a true MMO. The majority who want to play other things don't have any overwhelming desire to call the games they play something they aren't.
The popularity of an alternative is not a valid argument against proper usage of vocabulary.
People who want to call non-MMO games MMOs are an extreme minority of both the MMO community an the overall gaming community.
I think you mean it devolved, because mmo's were never as simple as they are now. Even a half braindead retarded monkey can hit level cap in a mmo these days. The "endgame": has turned to crap since its msotly just arena fights in many mmorpgs now. I miss when you used to have to go thru a hard as balls (at first) area with trash and minibosses to get to the raid bosses. As someone who's played some of the older mmo's the newer ones just don't have that sense of achievement anymore for me, mostly because they are too easy.
Wow brought the mentality of "everyone gets a trophy", as well as the "piss poor single player game till level cap" systems.
The last mmorpg i've played that I would actually even consider a mmorpg is final fantasy 11 back when the level cap was 75 before abbysea which dumbed the game down and destroyed what it had that made it good. To the ininformed (pretty much every game of the ps3 and up gen). FF11 had a system where one char can be all jobs, stuff took time to do, solo was bascally a non-option for most classes, you required people to do much of anything, which created a sense of community you just cannot get anymore in mmorpgs today. It also was grinding to level, so people actually had to socalize, the game wasn't for loners. Alot of the content back when the 75 cap was in was level synced, which means even if the person has a 75 you'll be fighting as if you were a level 50, which kept diffculty of encounters as you couldn't just out gear them.
As far as i'm concerned FF11 is the last true mmorpg thats out there, and its going to be dying soon. I haven't gotten into mmorpgs much lately because they all feel like I am playing the same game just with a diffrent skin or graphical style to it. This is what wow has done to destroy the genre. The damage is done and it'll probally never be undone. Hell a game like .hack GU for ps2 feels more like a mmo than actual mmo's do. Its also getting a ps4/pc remake soon that has vol 1,2 and 3 and a new 4th volume. The downside? the game was dumbed down for todays gamers due to their lack of skill, and them wanting it all handed to them, They upped attack power, exp/weaponskinn gain and also nerfed some of the optional hard bosses. The orignal game wasn't really hard or grindy at all so I never seen a need for those changes, I do however like all the other changes they are doing.
mmorpg's to me were supposed to be about the journey, not rush to endgame then do arena battles for gear that you can't use for anything really.
Being a pessimist is a win-win pattern of thinking. If you're a pessimist (I'll admit that I am!) you're either:
A. Proven right (if something bad happens)
or
B. Pleasantly surprised (if something good happens)
I'm glad the genre is shrinking, at least MMOs can get back to their roots of small communities, instead of sharing our wonderful genre with morons like the OP. Also, age has nothing to do with it, you just look stupid trying to make assumptions about age being a factor, there are plenty of younger gamers that enjoy old school MMOs as well as many other older games. The classic gaming scene is exploding at the moment, do you watch Twitch lol?
I'd like to add that your crusade here at MMORPG is falling on deaf ears, no one cares what you think, let it go, I really don't understand why you keep bringing this up. WE GET IT, you don't like MMOs, there are plenty of other places you can vent your frustration, leave us alone already.
I'm just going to start calling shooters RTS's because I have to strategize in real time while playing them, but they have online feature so maybe I will call them mmorts. And see if it sticks .
Then rts fan will buy games only to find out they are actually shooters , then someone can tell them that the definition has change and to get with the times . Well I'm done.
Just because the majority call the sky green it doesn't mean the sky changed color it just mean there are a majority of fools that never learned their colors in kindergarten. /Rant over
The MMO definition varies between persons as is amply demonstrated here.
I personally apply it to any game that includes grouped online play that doesn't have the scope or scale of traditional MMORPGs while possibly, but not necessarily, sharing some of their elements.
I feel the MMO term is broader than in the past due to a greater variety in games that offer grouped online play than previously.
I think the debate should be about the definition of "evolved" first.
Constantine, The Console Poster
"One of the most difficult tasks men can perform, however much others may despise it, is the invention of good games and it cannot be done by men out of touch with their instinctive selves." - Carl Jung
The user and all related content has been deleted.
Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.
Btw, aren't you the same lad that made a post recently about how you quit MMOs and you hated grouping?
The sheer amount of arrogance and narcissism is appalling that you thought you are the one that should step up and announce the evolution of the definition. But here we go...
Devs call their games MMOs is because they like that word massively in their name. If the genre's name was something else but it still had the same definition, I bet other games wouldn't be grabbing the name all the time. But right now is we are making a multiplayer, and we are planning to sell it to a lot of people, so yeah, massively we are. Players also go yeah I love this game, lots of other people love it too, so hell yeah if this ain't massively then I don't know what is.
I made a very long comment to Torval once, not going through that again, but I'm going to borrow a bit from that. You can't make 2-storey building and call it a high-rise. Same logic applies here.
High-rise definition also evolved with time. First it was +2, then +4, then +5, then +7, and now in big cities +12.
As tech advanced, the term also applied to taller buildings. You don't go backwards, and when you do, it's not called fucking evolved.
Shooter and RTS games had lobbies and maps with up to a dozen players decades before the games are getting labeled as MMOs these days, and they weren't MMOs back then, and they ain't MMOs right now.
This is turning into like watching an advertisement on TV about a Miracle Solvent, then change the definition of the word miracle referencing the fucking teaser.
So unless our brains have also shrunk alongside the amount of players involved IN GAMEPLAY, the term massively remains the same.
Post edited by ConstantineMerus on
Constantine, The Console Poster
"One of the most difficult tasks men can perform, however much others may despise it, is the invention of good games and it cannot be done by men out of touch with their instinctive selves." - Carl Jung
I'm just going to start calling shooters RTS's because I have to strategize in real time while playing them, but they have online feature so maybe I will call them mmorts. And see if it sticks .
Then rts fan will buy games only to find out they are actually shooters , then someone can tell them that the definition has change and to get with the times . Well I'm done.
Just because the majority call the sky green it doesn't mean the sky changed color it just mean there are a majority of fools that never learned their colors in kindergarten. /Rant over
The majority view is generally what defines things.
The sky can only be called blue because the majority have associated that word (or the equivalent in their language) with the colour the sky happens to be on a clear day.
What we learn in kindergarten is not the colours, but the arbitrary and contrived attributions applied to them, that are only made defining by majority acceptance.
I have to disagree in part again. No the definition of MMO has not changed. It is people trying to call things something they are not that has changed. The only real part of the definition that is even open to interpretation is the word Massively. That is a subjective term with no set meaning. Other than that it hasn't changed a bit.
For me personally if the game cannot hold at least 10k people at one time it isn't an MMO it is a multiplayer game. I have have subjectively set a threshold of 10k for myself. Until there is a finite number assigned to massively anyone can call anything a MMO because there is no limit just what you set yourself.
So with that in mind I can set 10k, but someone else could consider 50 to be massively. See how that works.
You may want to consider hiring an air traffic controller to manage the airspace above your head because that one sailed over it at such a great distance it's now in danger of interfering with international flight patterns.
If it doesn't have many people online that I can interact with and a character I can roleplay the it's not an MMORPG.
I'm part of a RP group in Destiny. FYI..
XBOX1 has this thing called "Clubs" people can join which is literally groups with thousands of people in them that share the same type of hobbies in gaming.. there are groups for people who enjoy high level competition in Madden, There are Groups for People who Enjoy RP, groups for people who enjoy FPS only games like COD.. just wanted to put that out there.
Whenever I play destiny 9/10 im playing people who RP as well.
"Beliefs don't change facts. Facts, if you're reasonable, should change your beliefs."
"The Society that separates its scholars from its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting by fools."
Currently: Games Audio Engineer, you didn't hear what I heard, you heard what I wanted you to hear.
No offense, OP, but I think the mods should really start locking some of the threads here.
How many threads regarding what an MMO is does this forum need?
WTF is an MMO, is Destiny 2 an MMO, MMO definition has evolved...just another weekend at mmorpg.com.
Dont worry, next week we'll be back to 'definition of sandbox', 'weather perm death could ever work', 'how pvp ruins pve games' or even the old 'classic things were better in the old days'.
If it doesn't have many people online that I can interact with and a character I can roleplay the it's not an MMORPG.
I'm part of a RP group in Destiny. FYI..
XBOX1 has this thing called "Clubs" people can join which is literally groups with thousands of people in them that share the same type of hobbies in gaming.. there are groups for people who enjoy high level competition in Madden, There are Groups for People who Enjoy RP, groups for people who enjoy FPS only games like COD.. just wanted to put that out there.
Whenever I play destiny 9/10 im playing people who RP as well.
That's the thing about role-play. It is a factor of the players, not the game. It is a matter of action, rather than declaration. It is function, not form.
Any game regardless of declared genre is a RPG for any that chose to role-play in it, and likewise no game is for those that don't.
I would rather see passionate gamer's have DISCUSSION about gaming and game ideas than see BS endorsement threads.
looks up at forum title "discussions".
When i see BS threads like "5 things we like about" that is a one way agenda to endorsement,that is not OPINIONS just a biased agenda to kiss ass of potential or affiliated gaming studios.
I can take my favorite mmorpg and give you a list of things i don't like or want improved,this site NEVER does that or VERY seldom,they carefully choose their words as to make sure the cons are not serious. Thousands of threads on games,when is the last time this site talked about intrusive cash shops and unfair prices?So yeah before pointing fingers at gamer's with opinions,wake up,take a look around at the bullshit that is going on.
i left some food outside the fridge. it too evolved...but i'm not eating it.
Ever hear about GRAFTING? Of course that would be a true evolved result,when people are talking mmo's evolving ,they likely draw conclusions from a point at which there has been ZERO evolving lol,like from WOW>>>to now,all clones.Name one modern mmorpg that doesn't have FAKE looking yellow markers over npc heads or markers on maps holding your hand?same old crap over and over.
So keep the opinions coming,do not become agenda related robot sellouts.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Man..gotta love all the people still thinking that the TERM mmo belongs to them. As if new gamers cant come after them and give the term a new meaning. You guys realize you dont own the term? That's what this seems to be boiling down to, the more responses I read from "old school" mmoers. Upset over a term people are using to describe their experience.
I always forget that's the nature of this place, somebody says "Hey I think this, based on my experience." somebody else says "NO! you are stupid and wrong, you cant be a real gamer your opinion is stupid." Stop acting so fragile and insulting people who have different opinions than yourself.
Just because the games being classified by people as MMOs are not "old school" like Everquest or UO, or even Vanilla wow does not make it less of a MMO. If games like Destiny, ESO and many others share all the same features of traditional MMOs, but they give it to you in a more streamlined way, I don't see the issue with calling it a MMO. Its your experience.
Is Destiny 1000 people a instance Massive? No.. but you do get to play online with multiple people. You do get to meet random people make friends and have your own adventures as your own Avatar. You do get raids, quests etc all the MMORPG tropes you get normally.
You wont find many MMOs today that DO allow over 100 people per instance. When I asked people earlier to show me a mmo with really big instances, people pulled up games that are 15, 20 years old. Bro come on.. move on. That era is over and that's okay.
Again as I've said before Change is always met with resistance and resistance is created by people who cant let go of what it USED TO be..the old way of thinking, so quick to shut down new ideas..
Games like Destiny, The Division, Albion Online, ESO, Star Citizen are all being called MMOs by different people.. Its not because the people saying so have NEVER PLAYED A OLD SCHOOL MMO BEFORE (stop this shit) they just realize where things may be going and can appreciate the MMO features these games have, even if its just 20 people in a instance, to have a MMO experience with 20 people, is still a MMO experience.
Stop this narrative like you guys only play WoW or DAOC with 1000 people at a time. You don't. Maybe there was a time 10 years ago sure but not now. Stop lying to yourself..the truth is you WISH it was still like that.. hell even I do as well, but I also know that era is gone and we should be focused on the next idea. Maybe implement some of the old ideas but def do it better, more improved.
In WoW, You play a Dungeon that's instanced with 5 people, a PVP map thats 40v40 or you play a raid that's instanced with 40 people. The only time there is a chance for 1000 people is in the main world and lets be honest.. nobody plays in the main world in these MMOs like that anymore, not even in WoW the MMO with the biggest user base. 1000 person instances just don't exist no matter how much you want it to.
I personally don't have a issue with smaller instanced MMOs because the term MMO is just that, a term to describe the type of features I like in games. I want to make my avatar, find loot, meet friends, RP, discover the lore of the world, explore the world and have fun. If Destiny allows me to do that with 100's of people, then that's a MMO experience to me in 2017.
The mmo experience isn't playing SWGemu in 2017. The MMO experience is streamlined now and its because most companies are not making games targeted at 35-40 year old people who still want to play Everquest and Runescape classic.. they are making MMOs for the console gamer aged 12-25 that's the real demographic they care about. Think about how a game like WoW changed over the years.. you may not like it now, but that's why its still here today. Vanilla WoW would be like EQ is today had they not took this route and stayed "Classic MMO" . They made changes to entice the next generation of users. Console users.
If you think about it, The console market is really whats influencing all this.. think about games like Neverwinter, FFXIV, DCUO..are those no longer MMOs because they are on console? Those games also have Instances with less than 100 people..so they arent MMOs right?
No..they are MMOs. Only they were first to accept what's happening, and now games are just adding those MMO features and calling it something else.. but people who played MMOs will recognize it quickly. Whether you accept it or not is one thing, but you cannot deny the mmo parts of these games, some games like Destiny, or ESO have so much MMO you have to call them MMO... who cares about the number of people in a instance? That doesn't matter as long as there is still access to 1000's of people. Who cares how its instanced? Its the experience I care about.
To the people calling people who think the MMO is changing the "Minority voices".. You know why WoW hasn't done classic WoW server yet? Because the market of gamers who want that compared to the experience they currently offer is too small! The people who cry about the bubble bursting and they want old school mmos back is very small compared to the entire picture. Stop acting like the only people who enjoy MMOs are people who played classic MMO games. You don't have to know what G4TV was in order to have a deep appreciation for MMOs in this era of Streamlined MMOs.. stop the bullshit!
"Beliefs don't change facts. Facts, if you're reasonable, should change your beliefs."
"The Society that separates its scholars from its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting by fools."
Currently: Games Audio Engineer, you didn't hear what I heard, you heard what I wanted you to hear.
Comments
Single Player Campaign
Multiplayer
Options
COD you load the multiplayer it asks what load out you want and it drops you into a lobby with 12 players. No real customization outside picking your weapon loadout. You do these small death match style matches on a small map like a house with a backyard (Serious) and thats it. Thats the multiplayer. No open world, no gear drops, no custom avatar, no lore to discover.. nothing.
Destiny: You load the game and the first screen is create your avatar.
You wake up and get through the tutorial like ALL mmos then you get to the shared world. From there you can group up with people join fire teams or you can continue your own mission go to earth and start doing the starter quests.. once you get enough gear you can start doing open world missions with people in the world.. like you can literally group with a person who helped you take down a tough world boss because you were going solo for a bit.
Destiny has quests, raids, dailies, heroics, mounts, guilds you name it.. it has everything most MMOs have except its a smaller group of instanced people. Instead of 100-200 people a instance you get 20 a instance. Its not bad its still fun its curated list.. The game is smart about putting you near people you know or have played with before to ensure you adventure is with people you know and want to play with. You can also disregard all that and try to solo it, but at some point the game gets so hard you HAVE to get help.
The only thing Destiny has in common with COD is the FPS part. That's it.
I agree with your point about its not about the number of people, its the idea of a virtual world. That's what I've been saying about Destiny. People keep saying its not a mmo because it doesnt have the amount of people to be MASSIVE.. but still Its a virtual world maybe not the same scale as WoW but its there for those who want to see it.
anyway.. playing absolver
"The Society that separates its scholars from its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting by fools."
Currently: Games Audio Engineer, you didn't hear what I heard, you heard what I wanted you to hear.
What needs to happen is people need to stop trying to steal a term that has a specific meaning to a specific community to use for their own purposes when they supposedly don't care about this term.
The majority of MMO players in 2017 are not looking for old style MMO mechanics. They would quit instantly actually if they had to play those. They play games like WoW (a shell of what it was streamlined for casual play) GTA Online, Warframe and Destiny..because its easy to pick up and get into.. the hardcore barrier is gone.. all games with MMO elements but not the classic MMO you are used to. They take the streamline approach and it works..
How many people play classic runescape? Vanilla WoW? SWGemu? DAOC? Even if you add all those numbers together its not even close to the newer games. That era is dead. Its time for MMO gamers, specifically the ones holding on to that era to let it go. Its not coming back.
HOW are they stealing a term also? MMO term doesnt belong to anybody. Its a term used to describe a hobby we all share.. some of us choose to move on to new frontiers.. others are going down with the sinking ship.. thats just how it is but neither side owns the term, thats just bs. The term describes a type of game we all like.
Ive been playing MMO's since the early 2000s also, my first being runescape, Im in my early 30s, So ive been around to see all MMOs since the year 2000.. i played RS for years until wow then i got that, then i got swg..I moved on to diff games, Ive had my favs, Put in 1000s of hours on XB Destiny, im playing absolver waiting for destiny 2. See I'm a Gamer in general I love games always will.. MMOs are my favorite and I refuse to ignore the new ones because Im too afraid or stubborn to give whats happening now a chance.
"The Society that separates its scholars from its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting by fools."
Currently: Games Audio Engineer, you didn't hear what I heard, you heard what I wanted you to hear.
Yes, MMOs are a genre in decline. I've never argued anything else. But the majority of people who want to play an "MMO" want to play a true MMO. The majority who want to play other things don't have any overwhelming desire to call the games they play something they aren't.
The popularity of an alternative is not a valid argument against proper usage of vocabulary.
People who want to call non-MMO games MMOs are an extreme minority of both the MMO community an the overall gaming community.
Wow brought the mentality of "everyone gets a trophy", as well as the "piss poor single player game till level cap" systems.
The last mmorpg i've played that I would actually even consider a mmorpg is final fantasy 11 back when the level cap was 75 before abbysea which dumbed the game down and destroyed what it had that made it good. To the ininformed (pretty much every game of the ps3 and up gen). FF11 had a system where one char can be all jobs, stuff took time to do, solo was bascally a non-option for most classes, you required people to do much of anything, which created a sense of community you just cannot get anymore in mmorpgs today. It also was grinding to level, so people actually had to socalize, the game wasn't for loners. Alot of the content back when the 75 cap was in was level synced, which means even if the person has a 75 you'll be fighting as if you were a level 50, which kept diffculty of encounters as you couldn't just out gear them.
As far as i'm concerned FF11 is the last true mmorpg thats out there, and its going to be dying soon. I haven't gotten into mmorpgs much lately because they all feel like I am playing the same game just with a diffrent skin or graphical style to it. This is what wow has done to destroy the genre. The damage is done and it'll probally never be undone. Hell a game like .hack GU for ps2 feels more like a mmo than actual mmo's do. Its also getting a ps4/pc remake soon that has vol 1,2 and 3 and a new 4th volume. The downside? the game was dumbed down for todays gamers due to their lack of skill, and them wanting it all handed to them, They upped attack power, exp/weaponskinn gain and also nerfed some of the optional hard bosses. The orignal game wasn't really hard or grindy at all so I never seen a need for those changes, I do however like all the other changes they are doing.
mmorpg's to me were supposed to be about the journey, not rush to endgame then do arena battles for gear that you can't use for anything really.
Being a pessimist is a win-win pattern of thinking. If you're a pessimist (I'll admit that I am!) you're either:
A. Proven right (if something bad happens)
or
B. Pleasantly surprised (if something good happens)
Either way, you can't lose! Try it out sometime!
I'd like to add that your crusade here at MMORPG is falling on deaf ears, no one cares what you think, let it go, I really don't understand why you keep bringing this up. WE GET IT, you don't like MMOs, there are plenty of other places you can vent your frustration, leave us alone already.
Then rts fan will buy games only to find out they are actually shooters , then someone can tell them that the definition has change and to get with the times . Well I'm done.
Just because the majority call the sky green it doesn't mean the sky changed color it just mean there are a majority of fools that never learned their colors in kindergarten. /Rant over
"I'm abandoning traditional MMOs for new age MMOs."
They said. "I'm done with MMOs" because they knew they games they were leaving for weren't MMOs of any kind.
I personally apply it to any game that includes grouped online play that doesn't have the scope or scale of traditional MMORPGs while possibly, but not necessarily, sharing some of their elements.
I feel the MMO term is broader than in the past due to a greater variety in games that offer grouped online play than previously.
Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.
The sheer amount of arrogance and narcissism is appalling that you thought you are the one that should step up and announce the evolution of the definition. But here we go...
Devs call their games MMOs is because they like that word massively in their name. If the genre's name was something else but it still had the same definition, I bet other games wouldn't be grabbing the name all the time. But right now is we are making a multiplayer, and we are planning to sell it to a lot of people, so yeah, massively we are. Players also go yeah I love this game, lots of other people love it too, so hell yeah if this ain't massively then I don't know what is.
I made a very long comment to Torval once, not going through that again, but I'm going to borrow a bit from that. You can't make 2-storey building and call it a high-rise. Same logic applies here.
High-rise definition also evolved with time. First it was +2, then +4, then +5, then +7, and now in big cities +12.
As tech advanced, the term also applied to taller buildings. You don't go backwards, and when you do, it's not called fucking evolved.
Shooter and RTS games had lobbies and maps with up to a dozen players decades before the games are getting labeled as MMOs these days, and they weren't MMOs back then, and they ain't MMOs right now.
This is turning into like watching an advertisement on TV about a Miracle Solvent, then change the definition of the word miracle referencing the fucking teaser.
So unless our brains have also shrunk alongside the amount of players involved IN GAMEPLAY, the term massively remains the same.
The sky can only be called blue because the majority have associated that word (or the equivalent in their language) with the colour the sky happens to be on a clear day.
What we learn in kindergarten is not the colours, but the arbitrary and contrived attributions applied to them, that are only made defining by majority acceptance.
For me personally if the game cannot hold at least 10k people at one time it isn't an MMO it is a multiplayer game. I have have subjectively set a threshold of 10k for myself. Until there is a finite number assigned to massively anyone can call anything a MMO because there is no limit just what you set yourself.
So with that in mind I can set 10k, but someone else could consider 50 to be massively. See how that works.
This isn't a signature, you just think it is.
You may want to consider hiring an air traffic controller to manage the airspace above your head because that one sailed over it at such a great distance it's now in danger of interfering with international flight patterns.
~~ postlarval ~~
XBOX1 has this thing called "Clubs" people can join which is literally groups with thousands of people in them that share the same type of hobbies in gaming.. there are groups for people who enjoy high level competition in Madden, There are Groups for People who Enjoy RP, groups for people who enjoy FPS only games like COD.. just wanted to put that out there.
Whenever I play destiny 9/10 im playing people who RP as well.
"The Society that separates its scholars from its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting by fools."
Currently: Games Audio Engineer, you didn't hear what I heard, you heard what I wanted you to hear.
"The Society that separates its scholars from its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting by fools."
Currently: Games Audio Engineer, you didn't hear what I heard, you heard what I wanted you to hear.
Any game regardless of declared genre is a RPG for any that chose to role-play in it, and likewise no game is for those that don't.
looks up at forum title "discussions".
When i see BS threads like "5 things we like about" that is a one way agenda to endorsement,that is not OPINIONS just a biased agenda to kiss ass of potential or affiliated gaming studios.
I can take my favorite mmorpg and give you a list of things i don't like or want improved,this site NEVER does that or VERY seldom,they carefully choose their words as to make sure the cons are not serious.
Thousands of threads on games,when is the last time this site talked about intrusive cash shops and unfair prices?So yeah before pointing fingers at gamer's with opinions,wake up,take a look around at the bullshit that is going on.
Ever hear about GRAFTING? Of course that would be a true evolved result,when people are talking mmo's evolving ,they likely draw conclusions from a point at which there has been ZERO evolving lol,like from WOW>>>to now,all clones.Name one modern mmorpg that doesn't have FAKE looking yellow markers over npc heads or markers on maps holding your hand?same old crap over and over.
So keep the opinions coming,do not become agenda related robot sellouts.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
I always forget that's the nature of this place, somebody says "Hey I think this, based on my experience." somebody else says "NO! you are stupid and wrong, you cant be a real gamer your opinion is stupid." Stop acting so fragile and insulting people who have different opinions than yourself.
Just because the games being classified by people as MMOs are not "old school" like Everquest or UO, or even Vanilla wow does not make it less of a MMO. If games like Destiny, ESO and many others share all the same features of traditional MMOs, but they give it to you in a more streamlined way, I don't see the issue with calling it a MMO. Its your experience.
Is Destiny 1000 people a instance Massive? No.. but you do get to play online with multiple people. You do get to meet random people make friends and have your own adventures as your own Avatar. You do get raids, quests etc all the MMORPG tropes you get normally.
You wont find many MMOs today that DO allow over 100 people per instance. When I asked people earlier to show me a mmo with really big instances, people pulled up games that are 15, 20 years old. Bro come on.. move on. That era is over and that's okay.
Again as I've said before Change is always met with resistance and resistance is created by people who cant let go of what it USED TO be..the old way of thinking, so quick to shut down new ideas..
Games like Destiny, The Division, Albion Online, ESO, Star Citizen are all being called MMOs by different people.. Its not because the people saying so have NEVER PLAYED A OLD SCHOOL MMO BEFORE (stop this shit) they just realize where things may be going and can appreciate the MMO features these games have, even if its just 20 people in a instance, to have a MMO experience with 20 people, is still a MMO experience.
Stop this narrative like you guys only play WoW or DAOC with 1000 people at a time. You don't. Maybe there was a time 10 years ago sure but not now. Stop lying to yourself..the truth is you WISH it was still like that.. hell even I do as well, but I also know that era is gone and we should be focused on the next idea. Maybe implement some of the old ideas but def do it better, more improved.
In WoW, You play a Dungeon that's instanced with 5 people, a PVP map thats 40v40 or you play a raid that's instanced with 40 people. The only time there is a chance for 1000 people is in the main world and lets be honest.. nobody plays in the main world in these MMOs like that anymore, not even in WoW the MMO with the biggest user base. 1000 person instances just don't exist no matter how much you want it to.
I personally don't have a issue with smaller instanced MMOs because the term MMO is just that, a term to describe the type of features I like in games. I want to make my avatar, find loot, meet friends, RP, discover the lore of the world, explore the world and have fun. If Destiny allows me to do that with 100's of people, then that's a MMO experience to me in 2017.
The mmo experience isn't playing SWGemu in 2017. The MMO experience is streamlined now and its because most companies are not making games targeted at 35-40 year old people who still want to play Everquest and Runescape classic.. they are making MMOs for the console gamer aged 12-25 that's the real demographic they care about. Think about how a game like WoW changed over the years.. you may not like it now, but that's why its still here today. Vanilla WoW would be like EQ is today had they not took this route and stayed "Classic MMO" . They made changes to entice the next generation of users. Console users.
If you think about it, The console market is really whats influencing all this.. think about games like Neverwinter, FFXIV, DCUO..are those no longer MMOs because they are on console? Those games also have Instances with less than 100 people..so they arent MMOs right?
No..they are MMOs. Only they were first to accept what's happening, and now games are just adding those MMO features and calling it something else.. but people who played MMOs will recognize it quickly. Whether you accept it or not is one thing, but you cannot deny the mmo parts of these games, some games like Destiny, or ESO have so much MMO you have to call them MMO... who cares about the number of people in a instance? That doesn't matter as long as there is still access to 1000's of people. Who cares how its instanced? Its the experience I care about.
To the people calling people who think the MMO is changing the "Minority voices".. You know why WoW hasn't done classic WoW server yet? Because the market of gamers who want that compared to the experience they currently offer is too small! The people who cry about the bubble bursting and they want old school mmos back is very small compared to the entire picture. Stop acting like the only people who enjoy MMOs are people who played classic MMO games. You don't have to know what G4TV was in order to have a deep appreciation for MMOs in this era of Streamlined MMOs.. stop the bullshit!
"The Society that separates its scholars from its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting by fools."
Currently: Games Audio Engineer, you didn't hear what I heard, you heard what I wanted you to hear.
Diluted would be a better word.