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Which MMO most promoted griefing?

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  • GdemamiGdemami Member EpicPosts: 12,342
    lahnmir said:
    I think your perception is skewered, not theirs.

    /Cheers,
    Lahnmir
    What part of that post is about my perception at all....?
  • immodiumimmodium Member RarePosts: 2,610
    edited September 2017
    immodium said:

    automatically play the role psychopathic sadistic murderers who kill everyone is sight for no reason when playing an online RPG game.

    Do you judge an actor's personality by the roles he chooses to play?

    No point answering you if you don't read (or understand) what I answer.

    And also, to add to my previous answer, an actor doesn't negatively affect any other person by playing a role. An asshole in a game does.

    But whatever, trying to make a griefer admit he is a griefer is just as pointless as trying to make a cheater admit he cheated.
    I fully agree with you that they are ACTING like arseholes in game and they are griefers.

    What I find amusing is that people falsely assume people who do grief are arseholes in real life.

    It's like me implying the people getting griefed are obviously masochists as they are willingly participating in a game that allows griefing.
    ConstantineMerus

    image
  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Member LegendaryPosts: 8,505
    edited September 2017
    immodium said:
    immodium said:

    automatically play the role psychopathic sadistic murderers who kill everyone is sight for no reason when playing an online RPG game.

    Do you judge an actor's personality by the roles he chooses to play?

    No point answering you if you don't read (or understand) what I answer.

    And also, to add to my previous answer, an actor doesn't negatively affect any other person by playing a role. An asshole in a game does.

    But whatever, trying to make a griefer admit he is a griefer is just as pointless as trying to make a cheater admit he cheated.
    I fully agree with you that they are ACTING like arseholes in game and they are griefers.

    What I find amusing is that people falsely assume people who do grief are arseholes in real life.

    It's like me implying the people getting griefed are obviously masochists as they are willingly participating in a game that allows griefing.
    That's a flawed analogy, because unless the player is literally searching for the high-level ganking them, their intention is to play the game's content.  It's being interrupted by an asshole, but that doesn't mean they're looking for it.

    If the griefer repeatedly engages a player who's defenseless, they're deliberately engaging in a behavior to prevent that player from enjoying game content without a real chance to defend themselves and with no reward to the griefer aside from knowing he's preventing someone else from enjoying the game.  It was their intent to grief, not the other player's intent to be griefed.


    GdemamiIselin[Deleted User]

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  • HatefullHatefull Member EpicPosts: 2,503
    Let me clarify... Is it possible and within the rules of the game being played? If the answer is yes, the losing party is just that, the loser. After all... GAME. Back to the monopoly statement. One player can easily dominate the other players, if the other players are getting mad about losing and flipping the board and quitting. They're the asshole, not the dominating player. Change monopoly with any game ever. Still a game. Be butthurt all you want to, flip my board and I'll not be inviting you for another game. Beat me, oh well, I lost, life goes on. 

    If you don't like a game with rules that enable. Then don't play it. And certainly don't try to cry about it... Admit it's not the game for you instead of being the asshole that complains that the game isn't fair. 

    Again, over simplification and a nonsensical comparison. You can say the same thing over and over until you are blue in the face, but it does not make it right nor accurate.

    You have several explanations as to why this is an asinine comparison, you refuse to understand them.
    Gdemami

    If you want a new idea, go read an old book.

    In order to be insulted, I must first value your opinion.

  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 18,719
    immodium said:
    immodium said:

    automatically play the role psychopathic sadistic murderers who kill everyone is sight for no reason when playing an online RPG game.

    Do you judge an actor's personality by the roles he chooses to play?

    No point answering you if you don't read (or understand) what I answer.

    And also, to add to my previous answer, an actor doesn't negatively affect any other person by playing a role. An asshole in a game does.

    But whatever, trying to make a griefer admit he is a griefer is just as pointless as trying to make a cheater admit he cheated.
    I fully agree with you that they are ACTING like arseholes in game and they are griefers.

    What I find amusing is that people falsely assume people who do grief are arseholes in real life.

    It's like me implying the people getting griefed are obviously masochists as they are willingly participating in a game that allows griefing.
    Most people are not roleplaying in an MMO they are just playing the game being who they are. The things they choose to say in chat, how they choose to play the game are as much reflections of who they are as how they drive their car, how they shop, how they relate to others in social situations.

    In a way it IS all acting but that's a philosophical detail that is neither here nor there. What we think of them is all based on how they act when we see them acting.

    It ain't much of a stretch to see someone behaving like an asshat in a game or even here in the forums and form an opinion about what sort of person they are.

    Take Gdemami for instance, his behavior in the forums makes me think that he has a massive superiority complex which is usually a sign of small stature or at least smallness of select crucial body parts. I could be wrong but that's the impression I have.

    Same with habitual griefers. Absent any evidence to the contrary I think they are asshats in all parts of their life.
    Gdemami[Deleted User]
    "Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”

    ― Umberto Eco

    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED

  • GdemamiGdemami Member EpicPosts: 12,342
    edited September 2017
    Iselin said:
    Absent any evidence to the contrary
    Proven by absence of evidence.

    You certainly aren't setting bar very high...
    immodium
  • ConstantineMerusConstantineMerus Member EpicPosts: 3,338
    Iselin said:
    immodium said:
    immodium said:

    automatically play the role psychopathic sadistic murderers who kill everyone is sight for no reason when playing an online RPG game.

    Do you judge an actor's personality by the roles he chooses to play?

    No point answering you if you don't read (or understand) what I answer.

    And also, to add to my previous answer, an actor doesn't negatively affect any other person by playing a role. An asshole in a game does.

    But whatever, trying to make a griefer admit he is a griefer is just as pointless as trying to make a cheater admit he cheated.
    I fully agree with you that they are ACTING like arseholes in game and they are griefers.

    What I find amusing is that people falsely assume people who do grief are arseholes in real life.

    It's like me implying the people getting griefed are obviously masochists as they are willingly participating in a game that allows griefing.
    Most people are not roleplaying in an MMO they are just playing the game being who they are. The things they choose to say in chat, how they choose to play the game are as much reflections of who they are as how they drive their car, how they shop, how they relate to others in social situations.

    In a way it IS all acting but that's a philosophical detail that is neither here nor there. What we think of them is all based on how they act when we see them acting.

    It ain't much of a stretch to see someone behaving like an asshat in a game or even here in the forums and form an opinion about what sort of person they are.

    Take Gdemami for instance, his behavior in the forums makes me think that he has a massive superiority complex which is usually a sign of small stature or at least smallness of select crucial body parts. I could be wrong but that's the impression I have.

    Same with habitual griefers. Absent any evidence to the contrary I think they are asshats in all parts of their life.
    I don't think we're given enough information about a person griefing to make any judgement. It's just all in our head.

    I agree it's being a jerk in-game. But there's no evidence to believe same atritude goes on in real life as well. 


    immodium
    Constantine, The Console Poster

    • "One of the most difficult tasks men can perform, however much others may despise it, is the invention of good games and it cannot be done by men out of touch with their instinctive selves." - Carl Jung
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 43,662
    edited September 2017
    immodium said:

    automatically play the role psychopathic sadistic murderers who kill everyone is sight for no reason when playing an online RPG game.

    Do you judge an actor's personality by the roles he chooses to play?

    No point answering you if you don't read (or understand) what I answer.

    And also, to add to my previous answer, an actor doesn't negatively affect any other person by playing a role. An asshole in a game does.

    But whatever, trying to make a griefer admit he is a griefer is just as pointless as trying to make a cheater admit he cheated.
    As you noted,  people in both groups generally can't admit to themselves what they are so they fabricate all sorts of validations to excuse their bad behaviors.


    GdemamiPhaserlight[Deleted User]

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    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm

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  • postlarvalpostlarval Member EpicPosts: 2,003
    Octagon7711 said:
    Probably Eve.
    This is the game where someone can spend 1 or more years inside a corp, making friends and allies and pirating with them, then sabotage them within with no regard of the friendships made in that year (or longer if going for the "ultimate" sabotage).
    The problem with this statement is that there are people who think hanging out with someone in a game who they have never met face-to-face, regardless of how long, qualifies as a friendship. I guess we can thank Facebook for that.

    It has, "I'm gullible, fuck me over" written all over it. 

    I really have have no sympathy for people who get fucked over by someone they only know online. Might as well just paint a target on your forehead.
    [Deleted User]
    ______________________________________________________________________
    ~~ postlarval ~~

  • ScorchienScorchien Member LegendaryPosts: 8,914
    edited September 2017
    Scorchien said:
    Hatefull said:
    Is it griefing when someone dominates the Monopoly board? No. Is it griefing when you lose at checkers? No. 

    Griefing is a myth. Its winning or losing. Grow a pair.
    That is an over simplification of the topic. Yes, in PvP there is usually a winner and a loser and most people that play PvP games are aware of this and can take a beating without batting an eye.

    While this topic is highly subjective, I think people can agree that there is a difference, if not in mechanics at least in the spirit of PvP vs Griefing. 

    Your final line "grow a pair' is awesome. I wonder how you would take it if Conor McGregor decided to beat the shit out of you every time you stepped out your front door. Obviously, there is nothing you can do about it (don't say other wise, you know it's true) beyond calling the police to come and keep him off you. However, if the cops won't come, what then, sit there looking out the window wishing you could go get a cupcake? Hoping this beast gets bored and leaves? Yeah, nope, the door opens you get a beating and back to the window with you.

    Same concept here, some people can take a PvP loss, but when it comes to corpse camping or other shenanigans that keep you from being able to even play the game, it's just grief. Some games are designed with this in mind and they make it pretty well known before you log in. Especially in the case of Eve...if you do not realize that it's going to happen then that is your issue.

    Anyway, it's not as simple as grow a pair, nor is it anything like a board game, that is an asinine comparison.
    Well your comparison isnt much better , Actually silly , to compare real life to game first ..

      Second if CM was to attempt that (or anyone for that matter ) some of the  recourse i can take , first would be opening the door and letting my 2 140+ lb Rhodesian Ridgebacks tear him a new asshole , if that didnt work(which is laughable) i could shoot him ...just for ex..

    You actually helped the poster you are answering to, most likely accidentally.

    In real life you have weapons (dogs, guns, the police) that don't require to be higher than a level to own. That's why even a kid can shoot and kill a veteran martial artist.

    In a game, a newbie is defenseless against high level griefers. If he has tamed a dog, the dog is also low level and will also be one shot. If he owns a weapon, it will do no damage to the high level char.

    Thanks for proving his point. Yes, his example of the martial arts champion camping your house is valid.
    umm thats not what he said there .. read it again.. In his example he says .. 

     " Obviously, there is nothing you can do about it (don't say other wise, you know it's true) beyond calling the police to come and keep him off you". ..


    In a  game you cant do anyhting about it .in his example there is lots you can do

  • General-ZodGeneral-Zod Member UncommonPosts: 868
    Kyleran said:
    One other consideration is what exactly is griefing? 

    To some players anytime they are unexpectedly killed they consider it griefing. 

    Others call it griefing if they were out leveled, or out numbered so they had no chance to fight back.

    Sometimes the qualifier is repetitive killing of players, and sometimes exploits have to be involved.

    First we need to understand what griefing really is before calling out various titles as supporting griefing or not.
    I would call getting killed unexpectedly being ganked, and being ganked repeatedly to the point of preventing someone from completing content with little to no chance of them successfully defending themselves as griefing.
    I have a similar definition. Griefing is akin to harassment actually. Those who do that aren't PvPers in my book, they are assholes.
    This is what iv been saying...

    image
  • Quizar1973Quizar1973 Member UncommonPosts: 251
    In My opinion Ultima Online...Thats why Trammel came out becuase of all the Butthurt people wanting to get rid of PKers....LOL....Just my opinion...LOL
    No one shall Rent space in my head!!!!!  B)
  • RoguewizRoguewiz Member UncommonPosts: 711
    DMKano said:
    Shadowbane had epic griefing - especially when players started using exploits to teleport other players off the map and grief them mercilessly.

    It really was next level griefing.
    Nothing worse than defending your castle from an invasion, and then poof, you're in the middle of the ocean.  There was a guild on Mourning that was rather adept at doing it.  Can't remember the name of the guild, but it was Undead something (or had something to do with that name).

    In all seriousness though, the game doesn't promote griefing.  The anonymity of the internet promotes it.

    Raquelis in various games
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  • ShinamiShinami Member UncommonPosts: 825
    If I wanted to make a game that had the highest griefing possible...

    I would start by making a game P2W and having equipment upgrades and junk in the cash shop (not just in the world), and I would have a small resource map where one guild controls it to the point that people will do anything to join that guild in order to mine/farm that map. 

    I would also make the classes in a way that late-game (or the more money spent) really makes the power of the class come out. 

    If only there was a game like that? 
    Oh wait, there are many games like this already in the present day. :P 

    So many, that Westerners see the tag "F2P" on a game, and avoid it like the plague due to the horror stories of the past. :P 
  • nariusseldonnariusseldon Member EpicPosts: 27,775
     

    I really have have no sympathy for people who get fucked over by someone they only know online. Might as well just paint a target on your forehead.
    Ditto. We are talking about games here, not real life. One can always quit and play another if he/she is not having fun.

    Anyone who suffers in entertainment VOLUNTARILY deserves 100% what they are getting. 
    SomethingUnusualpostlarval
  • SomethingUnusualSomethingUnusual Member UncommonPosts: 546
    Games aren't a democracy. Games are games. Win some, lose some.

    And in defense of myself, yet again. I stated "[Within the confines of the rules.]" Many of the examples given were games/scenarios within that actually have rules in the Terms of Service about spawn camping etc. If the player is breaking those rules -- and only if -- then you can call it whatever you like. 

    Why I need to explain myself I don't know, but I guess that's not as assumed and comprehended as I intended. 

    It's pretty annoying though that people insist on full pvp and competition games then complain when they lose that very competition.  Play something else, or practice more... Or better yet, being spawn camped? Get other players involved and excite revenge. Spawn camp them back with zerg or something. It is after all "Massively Multiplayer."
  • postlarvalpostlarval Member EpicPosts: 2,003
    Games aren't a democracy. Games are games. Win some, lose some.

    And in defense of myself, yet again. I stated "[Within the confines of the rules.]" Many of the examples given were games/scenarios within that actually have rules in the Terms of Service about spawn camping etc. If the player is breaking those rules -- and only if -- then you can call it whatever you like. 

    Why I need to explain myself I don't know, but I guess that's not as assumed and comprehended as I intended. 

    It's pretty annoying though that people insist on full pvp and competition games then complain when they lose that very competition.  Play something else, or practice more... Or better yet, being spawn camped? Get other players involved and excite revenge. Spawn camp them back with zerg or something. It is after all "Massively Multiplayer."
    I miss the days of UO when the players "took care of" a problem child on their own.

    These days they run to the game developers demanding intervention like a small helpless child.
    GdemamiIselinKyleran
    ______________________________________________________________________
    ~~ postlarval ~~

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon Member EpicPosts: 27,775

    I miss the days of UO when the players "took care of" a problem child on their own.

    These days they run to the game developers demanding intervention like a small helpless child.
    Games are entertaining product. Why it is a problem if a customer tells the supplier what they do or do not like?

    It is a free world. It is not like the dev has to follow suit. This is no difference from the trekkies who wrote NBC when star trek was cancelled. It is just that you don't like what they ask for. 
  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Member LegendaryPosts: 8,505
    Games aren't a democracy. Games are games. Win some, lose some.

    And in defense of myself, yet again. I stated "[Within the confines of the rules.]" Many of the examples given were games/scenarios within that actually have rules in the Terms of Service about spawn camping etc. If the player is breaking those rules -- and only if -- then you can call it whatever you like. 

    Why I need to explain myself I don't know, but I guess that's not as assumed and comprehended as I intended. 

    It's pretty annoying though that people insist on full pvp and competition games then complain when they lose that very competition.  Play something else, or practice more... Or better yet, being spawn camped? Get other players involved and excite revenge. Spawn camp them back with zerg or something. It is after all "Massively Multiplayer."
    Yes, I'm sure developers think it ideal to ask players to just leave the game completely because someone is preventing them from even completing content for no other reason than because it's easy for them and they wanna rustle jimmies.
    [Deleted User]

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  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 18,719
    Games aren't a democracy. Games are games. Win some, lose some.

    And in defense of myself, yet again. I stated "[Within the confines of the rules.]" Many of the examples given were games/scenarios within that actually have rules in the Terms of Service about spawn camping etc. If the player is breaking those rules -- and only if -- then you can call it whatever you like. 

    Why I need to explain myself I don't know, but I guess that's not as assumed and comprehended as I intended. 

    It's pretty annoying though that people insist on full pvp and competition games then complain when they lose that very competition.  Play something else, or practice more... Or better yet, being spawn camped? Get other players involved and excite revenge. Spawn camp them back with zerg or something. It is after all "Massively Multiplayer."
    I miss the days of UO when the players "took care of" a problem child on their own.

    These days they run to the game developers demanding intervention like a small helpless child.
    Yeah because developers have no responsibility lol. Want to stop spawn camping as a developer? Give a re-spawned player a 5 minute immunity form player damage. Sounds pretty fucking simple to me if they actually do give a shit about stopping it.

    And it's not like it's a new concept. Immunity timers have been around forever.
    SomethingUnusualGdemamiConstantineMerus
    "Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”

    ― Umberto Eco

    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED

  • FlyByKnightFlyByKnight Member EpicPosts: 3,967
    Okay, if we're going to be dumb;

    If OWPVP is the "armpit" of MMOS, the people who make these types of comments are the female orafices of MMOs.
    Is that the average griefer? A sexist nerd?
    Well, not that I'm surprised...
    Victims will be victims.
    Sorry to have made you the victim of the way you treat women in your lousy comparison.
    How do I treat women? How is what I said sexist in any way?

    Exactly, a weakling whose only option is to play victim and try to create a "he's barbaric" narrative against something you don't like. Not only that but you're too ignorant to read the bold text and look at the context of the conversation before pushing your passive aggressive nose into my comment.

    Go take a seat helpless villager.
    Kyleran
    "As far as the forum code of conduct, I would think it's a bit outdated and in need of a refre *CLOSED*" 

    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Member LegendaryPosts: 8,505
    Okay, if we're going to be dumb;

    If OWPVP is the "armpit" of MMOS, the people who make these types of comments are the female orafices of MMOs.
    Is that the average griefer? A sexist nerd?
    Well, not that I'm surprised...
    Victims will be victims.
    Sorry to have made you the victim of the way you treat women in your lousy comparison.
    How do I treat women? How is what I said sexist in any way?

    Exactly, a weakling whose only option is to play victim and try to create a "he's barbaric" narrative against something you don't like. Not only that but you're too ignorant to read the bold text and look at the context of the conversation before pushing your passive aggressive nose into my comment.

    Go take a seat helpless villager.
    Luckily, the asshole's opinion of his own actions isn't binding to the rest of us when making judgement on those actions.  Otherwise Trump's approval rating would be 100%.
    [Deleted User]MoiraeKyleranConstantineMerusRufusUO

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  • MoiraeMoirae Member RarePosts: 3,318
    While I think flybynight is a griefer of the highest order, I don't see how what he said has anything to do with women in particular, and I'm a woman. More like... he's insulting anyone that doesn't agree with him because he thinks griefing is a good thing. 

    Good thing the majority of people don't agree with him. 
    Kyleran
  • EldurianEldurian Member EpicPosts: 2,736
    Comparing someone to the female sexual organ in a degrading way isn't exactly being a feminist. But whatever, not really important.
    I call people "dick" as a synonym for jerk. I really wouldn't read much into it. When you start reading too much into simple word usages like that you spend way more time being offended than could possibly be productive. There are more important fights to be had in the world than that.
  • KnightFalzKnightFalz Member EpicPosts: 4,229
    immodium said:
    I just find it peculiar people judge how someone behaves in real life by their online actions within the context of gaming. Especially role playing games. Places where you take on any persona you want.

    Do people judge Brad Pitts personality based on the roles he plays in films?

    I have nothing against griefing if the game allows it.
    It may not be an indicator of how a person behaves in real life. However, it may well be an indication how that person would behave if real life suddenly became equally accommodating to griefing as some online games.

    The actions one takes when beyond consequence, especially when effectively anonymous, are often the most genuinely defining.

    Role-playing could well be an exception to that, with the actions revealing the adopted persona instead of the actual, but I encounter precious little role-playing in online games of any genre, so I think that would by far be the exception.
    GdemamiKyleran
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