Any game where PVP happens in the open world with no flagging or PVE-only zones. Even the WOW PVP servers had quest hub griefing of lowbees and the ever popular killing of the quest NPCs.
It's the armpit of MMO PVP and there are always some who love armpits.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
I don't really think Lineage 2 supported griefing because they gave you a few ways to avoid it. If you were being hounded in one zone there are lots of other equal level zones to go to, to complete your grind. If you stocked blessed scrolls, you could instantly port to another location when you saw that red name running towards you or if he didn't one shot you it was easy to teleport before the second hit. If in a guild you could could easily escape and come back with your mates. Ruined his day because he missed what he thought was going to be an easy kill.
Games that support eternal stun locking are a different matter.
I take it you started playing sometime around 2005 or later.
-- Whammy - a 64x64 miniRPG - RPG Quiz - can you get all 25 right? - FPS Quiz - how well do you know your shooters?
I don't really think Lineage 2 supported griefing because they gave you a few ways to avoid it. If you were being hounded in one zone there are lots of other equal level zones to go to, to complete your grind. If you stocked blessed scrolls, you could instantly port to another location when you saw that red name running towards you or if he didn't one shot you it was easy to teleport before the second hit. If in a guild you could could easily escape and come back with your mates. Ruined his day because he missed what he thought was going to be an easy kill.
Games that support eternal stun locking are a different matter.
I take it you started playing sometime around 2005 or later.
I played L2 in US servers from launch plus 6 months and was only PKd twice.
Not sure where you experienced all of this griefing.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
If OWPVP is the "armpit" of MMOS, the people who make these types of comments are the female orafices of MMOs.
Stop playing OWPVP games and bringing your helpless, passive aggressive, allergic to everything, Munchausen by MMO complaining and whining to every discussion.
All these folks do is use the silliest analogies, and try to convince how sane they are compared to others who are capable of playing a game without acting like their genitals are getting stepped on.
It's the SAME people EVERY TIME. Are you folks continually playing OWPVP games getting your feelings hurt or are you still projecting bad feels from 199x when that guy one time did something to you in 8bit?
Cut it out. You don't have a clue what griefing is because gauging how soft and whiny some of you can be authorities, lawyers, and day time talk shows would be involved if it happened to you.
Do people grief in games? Yes, all games where humans can interact. The more interaction options the more opportunity for bad behavior. Is it a good reason for some nozzles to blanket flame every OWPVP player and game? Nope.
"As far as the forum code of conduct, I would think it's a bit outdated and in need of a refre *CLOSED*"
If OWPVP is the "armpit" of MMOS, the people who make these types of comments are the female orafices of MMOs.
Stop playing OWPVP games and bringing your helpless, passive aggressive, allergic to everything, Munchausen by MMO complaining and whining to every discussion.
All these folks do is use the silliest analogies, and try to convince how sane they are compared to others who are capable of playing a game without acting like their genitals are getting stepped on.
It's the SAME people EVERY TIME. Are you folks continually playing OWPVP games getting your feelings hurt or are you still projecting bad feels from 199x when that guy one time did something to you in 8bit?
Cut it out. You don't have a clue what griefing is because gauging how soft and whiny some of you can be authorities, lawyers, and day time talk shows would be involved if it happened to you.
Do people grief in games? Yes, all games where humans can interact. The more interaction options the more opportunity for bad behavior. Is it a good reason for some nozzles to blanket flame every OWPVP player and game? Nope.
I thought we were talking about griefing... no? I'm confused are you defending griefing or only the games where it's possible?
I was never griefed in DAoC nor WAR nor GW2 nor ESO. Died in PVP many times but that's a whole different story.
There are asshats who get their jollies from preventing others from playing. Are you saying games where that's enabled that is good design?
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
I don't really think Lineage 2 supported griefing because they gave you a few ways to avoid it. If you were being hounded in one zone there are lots of other equal level zones to go to, to complete your grind. If you stocked blessed scrolls, you could instantly port to another location when you saw that red name running towards you or if he didn't one shot you it was easy to teleport before the second hit. If in a guild you could could easily escape and come back with your mates. Ruined his day because he missed what he thought was going to be an easy kill.
Games that support eternal stun locking are a different matter.
I take it you started playing sometime around 2005 or later.
Probably. I think the grind griefed more people than anything else.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
i see a few post about ole age of conan, yeah it was open pvp and there was alot of killing but it was a ton of fun. the huge battles that would start up because of it was great.
we use to battle for hours over a damn wagon that summoned mobs to kill and level up. it made it interesting fighting other groups who wanted that wagon for themselves.
The problem is so many people think they want pvp but then they join the pvp server get killed and quit the game. when they should of been on a pve server to begin with.
you might call being killed while questing griefing, as i call it a bigger challenge because the game itself is already to damn easy. having to fight others and get some friends to back you up for some good battles is fun to some of us.
i see a few post about ole age of conan, yeah it was open pvp and there was alot of killing but it was a ton of fun. the huge battles that would start up because of it was great.
we use to battle for hours over a damn wagon that summoned mobs to kill and level up. it made it interesting fighting other groups who wanted that wagon for themselves.
The problem is so many people think they want pvp but then they join the pvp server get killed and quit the game. when they should of been on a pve server to begin with.
you might call being killed while questing griefing, as i call it a bigger challenge because the game itself is already to damn easy. having to fight others and get some friends to back you up for some good battles is fun to some of us.
Absolutely! But what you describe doesn't come close to grieving, its just PVP. Grieving is killing a level one at the entry point of the game over and over again for hours/days/weeks with your guild of max level characters until he or she quits. Its about the absolute unfair, about ruining someones experience, intent.
What you describe is just good old PVP and I wouldn't want to miss it.
/Cheers, Lahnmir
'the only way he could nail it any better is if he used a cross.'
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
I don't really think Lineage 2 supported griefing because they gave you a few ways to avoid it. If you were being hounded in one zone there are lots of other equal level zones to go to, to complete your grind. If you stocked blessed scrolls, you could instantly port to another location when you saw that red name running towards you or if he didn't one shot you it was easy to teleport before the second hit. If in a guild you could could easily escape and come back with your mates. Ruined his day because he missed what he thought was going to be an easy kill.
Games that support eternal stun locking are a different matter.
I take it you started playing sometime around 2005 or later.
I played L2 in US servers from launch plus 6 months and was only PKd twice.
Not sure where you experienced all of this griefing.
Lionna, mostly starter areas, especially the Dwarven area. You're either full of it, forgetful, or mistaken if you contend there was no griefing, especially fromthe botters, in early L2.
-- Whammy - a 64x64 miniRPG - RPG Quiz - can you get all 25 right? - FPS Quiz - how well do you know your shooters?
I don't really think Lineage 2 supported griefing because they gave you a few ways to avoid it. If you were being hounded in one zone there are lots of other equal level zones to go to, to complete your grind. If you stocked blessed scrolls, you could instantly port to another location when you saw that red name running towards you or if he didn't one shot you it was easy to teleport before the second hit. If in a guild you could could easily escape and come back with your mates. Ruined his day because he missed what he thought was going to be an easy kill.
Games that support eternal stun locking are a different matter.
I take it you started playing sometime around 2005 or later.
I played L2 in US servers from launch plus 6 months and was only PKd twice.
Not sure where you experienced all of this griefing.
Lionna, mostly starter areas, especially the Dwarven area. You're either full of it, forgetful, or mistaken if you contend there was no griefing, especially fromthe botters, in early L2.
Fact remains I was killed 2 times in 6 months, maybe I was just very good at evading asshats, it is a specialty of mine.
Also I didn't spend much time in starter areas and I never rolled a dwarf so perhaps I just missed all of the action.
I was actually friends with the Asian gold farmers who regularly let me group with them, even though I was a SR.
We couldn't chat much, but they knew enough to get their point across when necessary.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Is it griefing when someone dominates the Monopoly board? No. Is it griefing when you lose at checkers? No.
Griefing is a myth. Its winning or losing. Grow a pair.
Clearly you don't understand the term of griefing. Griefing is when someone takes advantage of gear, level or stat progression in which their opponent has no means of defending against or winning. So, if we are to use your analogy of say Monopoly. It would be like someone playing by themselves for 100 dice rolls and then someone else joins. Let me know how that turns out. Thank you for upholding the need for stereotypes.
That's not really griefing, that's using the disparity inherent in the game to your advantage. As you can see in my signature, I'm not a big fan of disparity either but they are separate subjects.
Griefing is about intention. Griefing is driven by the specific intent to ruin someone else's gaming experience, AKA cause them grief.
I'll give you two scenarios to highlight the difference.
Scenario 1: Pirate Pete the high level sees Newby Ned who just started the game today. Newby Ned is farming NPCs that sometimes drop valuable items. Ones valuable even to veterans. He kills him, takes his stack of that items off his corpse, and goes on about his day.
Scenario 2: Griefer Gary kills Pirate Pete, an evenly matched opponent, and takes his gear. PvP Pete respawns at the nearby bindpoint without gear. Despite the fact he gains nothing from further kills against Pirate Pete, Griefer Gary decides to camp the bindpoint for the next four hours because he loves "The sweet taste of his salty tears."
Scenario 1 is not griefing. Pirate Pete's motivation for killing the newb was the loot. He didn't rub his nose in it or do anything to make the loss sting worse. He got his loot and went on about his business. The disparity doesn't matter, it was the intent of the action.
Scenario 2 is griefing. Greifer Gary is killing specifically because his motivation is to ruin someone else's day. That is the classic definition of griefing. The fact that Gary had to kill him in an evenly matched fight to camp him doesn't matter. It was the intent of his actions.
EVE because its a whole other level and type of grief that happens in game.. its literally sabotage.. getting ganked in a open world themepark game is one thing..you can log out of wow if the pvp is too hard, get gear and try again later.. not in eve. getting on the wrong side of a corp is a whole other thing..log out and come back the same people are sabotaging you. no escape unless you uninstall.
"Beliefs don't change facts. Facts, if you're reasonable, should change your beliefs."
"The Society that separates its scholars from its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting by fools."
Currently: Games Audio Engineer, you didn't hear what I heard, you heard what I wanted you to hear.
Let me clarify... Is it possible and within the rules of the game being played? If the answer is yes, the losing party is just that, the loser. After all... GAME. Back to the monopoly statement. One player can easily dominate the other players, if the other players are getting mad about losing and flipping the board and quitting. They're the asshole, not the dominating player. Change monopoly with any game ever. Still a game. Be butthurt all you want to, flip my board and I'll not be inviting you for another game. Beat me, oh well, I lost, life goes on.
If you don't like a game with rules that enable. Then don't play it. And certainly don't try to cry about it... Admit it's not the game for you instead of being the asshole that complains that the game isn't fair.
Let me clarify... Is it possible and within the rules of the game being played? If the answer is yes, the losing party is just that, the loser. After all... GAME. Back to the monopoly statement. One player can easily dominate the other players, if the other players are getting mad about losing and flipping the board and quitting. They're the asshole, not the dominating player. Change monopoly with any game ever. Still a game. Be butthurt all you want to, flip my board and I'll not be inviting you for another game. Beat me, oh well, I lost, life goes on.
If you don't like a game with rules that enable. Then don't play it. And certainly don't try to cry about it... Admit it's not the game for you instead of being the asshole that complains that the game isn't fair.
Since we have already gone off on the subject of D&D alignments may I point out how very lawful-evil of you to hold that perspective.
Griefing isn't a question of rules, it's a moral issue. Are you going to be as big of an ass as you can possibly get away with, or are you going to treat your fellow players with respect?
It's the board game equivalent of calling everyone at the table names and shooting spitwads at them.
You are essentially claiming "Anything oked by the rules is morally right! I am justfied in being as big of an ass as possible as long as the rules say it's ok!"
MMOs are games governed by hard coded rules with thousands of players. They don't have time to run around and make sure everyone plays nice. As such many people choose to operate as virtual bullies because they can get away with it.
No, I'm not going admit the game isn't for me and just leave if that happens, because no game has the potential to prevent that. I'm just going to note people who do it are griefers, make a note of their name and guild, and return the favor thricefold every time I encounter them or anyone who shares their guild tag. As I have been doing for years now.
Is it griefing when someone dominates the Monopoly board? No. Is it griefing when you lose at checkers? No.
Griefing is a myth. Its winning or losing. Grow a pair.
That is an over simplification of the topic. Yes, in PvP there is usually a winner and a loser and most people that play PvP games are aware of this and can take a beating without batting an eye.
While this topic is highly subjective, I think people can agree that there is a difference, if not in mechanics at least in the spirit of PvP vs Griefing.
Your final line "grow a pair' is awesome. I wonder how you would take it if Conor McGregor decided to beat the shit out of you every time you stepped out your front door. Obviously, there is nothing you can do about it (don't say other wise, you know it's true) beyond calling the police to come and keep him off you. However, if the cops won't come, what then, sit there looking out the window wishing you could go get a cupcake? Hoping this beast gets bored and leaves? Yeah, nope, the door opens you get a beating and back to the window with you.
Same concept here, some people can take a PvP loss, but when it comes to corpse camping or other shenanigans that keep you from being able to even play the game, it's just grief. Some games are designed with this in mind and they make it pretty well known before you log in. Especially in the case of Eve...if you do not realize that it's going to happen then that is your issue.
Anyway, it's not as simple as grow a pair, nor is it anything like a board game, that is an asinine comparison.
Well your comparison isnt much better , Actually silly , to compare real life to game first ..
Second if CM was to attempt that (or anyone for that matter ) some of the recourse i can take , first would be opening the door and letting my 2 140+ lb Rhodesian Ridgebacks tear him a new asshole , if that didnt work(which is laughable) i could shoot him ...just for ex..
Your anaolgy doesnt work as you cant take real life recourse and action into the equation of a game now can you ...
Now in the game , you dont have options like that to fall back on , if it IS that bad , So log out or log a different toon or play a different game ...
But
corpse camping doesnt happen all that often anymore (there are few games you can even do it in) , matter a fact near impossible anymore ...
Let me clarify... Is it possible and within the rules of the game being played? If the answer is yes, the losing party is just that, the loser. After all... GAME. Back to the monopoly statement. One player can easily dominate the other players, if the other players are getting mad about losing and flipping the board and quitting. They're the asshole, not the dominating player. Change monopoly with any game ever. Still a game. Be butthurt all you want to, flip my board and I'll not be inviting you for another game. Beat me, oh well, I lost, life goes on.
If you don't like a game with rules that enable. Then don't play it. And certainly don't try to cry about it... Admit it's not the game for you instead of being the asshole that complains that the game isn't fair.
Since we have already gone off on the subject of D&D alignments may I point out how very lawful-evil of you to hold that perspective.
Griefing isn't a question of rules, it's a moral issue. Are you going to be as big of an ass as you can possibly get away with, or are you going to treat your fellow players with respect?
It's the board game equivalent of calling everyone at the table names and shooting spitwads at them.
You are essentially claiming "Anything oked by the rules is morally right! I am justfied in being as big of an ass as possible as long as the rules say it's ok!"
MMOs are games governed by hard coded rules with thousands of players. They don't have time to run around and make sure everyone plays nice. As such many people choose to operate as virtual bullies because they can get away with it.
No, I'm not going admit the game isn't for me and just leave if that happens, because no game has the potential to prevent that. I'm just going to note people who do it are griefers, make a note of their name and guild, and return the favor thricefold every time I encounter them or anyone who shares their guild tag. As I have been doing for years now.
Interesting perspective. Maybe it's just me. I've been losing and spawn camped for most of my life. I have a difficult time relating morality to a game however. The point is to win, by any means necessary.
Let me clarify... Is it possible and within the rules of the game being played? If the answer is yes, the losing party is just that, the loser. After all... GAME. Back to the monopoly statement. One player can easily dominate the other players, if the other players are getting mad about losing and flipping the board and quitting. They're the asshole, not the dominating player. Change monopoly with any game ever. Still a game. Be butthurt all you want to, flip my board and I'll not be inviting you for another game. Beat me, oh well, I lost, life goes on.
If you don't like a game with rules that enable. Then don't play it. And certainly don't try to cry about it... Admit it's not the game for you instead of being the asshole that complains that the game isn't fair.
Yes, attacking players in an MMORPG that are, for all intents and purposes, defenseless, repeatedly simply to prevent their completing game content is the same as dominating at monopoly. Genius!
And all that can be called 'playing the game' UNTIL your soul motivation is to take the enjoyment from the other person away, then its called grieving.
Yep, and like I pointed out, that is rarely the case.
People are considering griefing w/e does not fit their perception how PVP should take place - once you do not fit into their arbitrary qualifiers, intention is falsely assumed(why else he would do that?).
And all that can be called 'playing the game' UNTIL your soul motivation is to take the enjoyment from the other person away, then its called grieving.
Yep, and like I pointed out, that is rarely the case.
People are considering griefing w/e does not fit their perception how PVP should take place - once you do not fit into their arbitrary qualifiers, intention is falsely assumed(why else he would do that?).
Based on your posting habits and opinions of this subject I'm 99.99% sure that you don't like the term griefing because it fits you so well. It seems to match your personality type.
The fact is people doing things just to be an ass in games is very common. It's kind of hard to convince people who've actually played any games (Or even been on the internet) otherwise.
I just find it peculiar people judge how someone behaves in real life by their online actions within the context of gaming. Especially role playing games. Places where you take on any persona you want.
Do people judge Brad Pitts personality based on the roles he plays in films?
I have nothing against griefing if the game allows it.
Let me clarify... Is it possible and within the rules of the game being played? If the answer is yes, the losing party is just that, the loser. After all... GAME. Back to the monopoly statement. One player can easily dominate the other players, if the other players are getting mad about losing and flipping the board and quitting. They're the asshole, not the dominating player. Change monopoly with any game ever. Still a game. Be butthurt all you want to, flip my board and I'll not be inviting you for another game. Beat me, oh well, I lost, life goes on.
If you don't like a game with rules that enable. Then don't play it. And certainly don't try to cry about it... Admit it's not the game for you instead of being the asshole that complains that the game isn't fair.
Since we have already gone off on the subject of D&D alignments may I point out how very lawful-evil of you to hold that perspective.
Griefing isn't a question of rules, it's a moral issue. Are you going to be as big of an ass as you can possibly get away with, or are you going to treat your fellow players with respect?
It's the board game equivalent of calling everyone at the table names and shooting spitwads at them.
You are essentially claiming "Anything oked by the rules is morally right! I am justfied in being as big of an ass as possible as long as the rules say it's ok!"
MMOs are games governed by hard coded rules with thousands of players. They don't have time to run around and make sure everyone plays nice. As such many people choose to operate as virtual bullies because they can get away with it.
No, I'm not going admit the game isn't for me and just leave if that happens, because no game has the potential to prevent that. I'm just going to note people who do it are griefers, make a note of their name and guild, and return the favor thricefold every time I encounter them or anyone who shares their guild tag. As I have been doing for years now.
Interesting perspective. Maybe it's just me. I've been losing and spawn camped for most of my life. I have a difficult time relating morality to a game however. The point is to win, by any means necessary.
Come on mate, when there is no reward or challenge, win what exactly?
I did it to annoy people. And this thread is a testament that baby, people are annoyed. Mission fucking accomplished.
I invite anyone else who is being accused of griefing state their reasons. Why you were corpse camping one shotting a lad for a good amount of times when there was no reward or challenge involved. Maybe I'm the only sadistic c..t here, what were your reasons gentlemen?
Constantine, The Console Poster
"One of the most difficult tasks men can perform, however much others may despise it, is the invention of good games and it cannot be done by men out of touch with their instinctive selves." - Carl Jung
And all that can be called 'playing the game' UNTIL your soul motivation is to take the enjoyment from the other person away, then its called grieving.
Yep, and like I pointed out, that is rarely the case.
People are considering griefing w/e does not fit their perception how PVP should take place - once you do not fit into their arbitrary qualifiers, intention is falsely assumed(why else he would do that?).
I think your perception is skewered, not theirs.
/Cheers, Lahnmir
'the only way he could nail it any better is if he used a cross.'
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
Comments
It's the armpit of MMO PVP and there are always some who love armpits.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
- RPG Quiz - can you get all 25 right?
- FPS Quiz - how well do you know your shooters?
Not sure where you experienced all of this griefing.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
If OWPVP is the "armpit" of MMOS, the people who make these types of comments are the female orafices of MMOs.
Stop playing OWPVP games and bringing your helpless, passive aggressive, allergic to everything, Munchausen by MMO complaining and whining to every discussion.
All these folks do is use the silliest analogies, and try to convince how sane they are compared to others who are capable of playing a game without acting like their genitals are getting stepped on.
It's the SAME people EVERY TIME. Are you folks continually playing OWPVP games getting your feelings hurt or are you still projecting bad feels from 199x when that guy one time did something to you in 8bit?
Cut it out. You don't have a clue what griefing is because gauging how soft and whiny some of you can be authorities, lawyers, and day time talk shows would be involved if it happened to you.
Do people grief in games? Yes, all games where humans can interact. The more interaction options the more opportunity for bad behavior. Is it a good reason for some nozzles to blanket flame every OWPVP player and game? Nope.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I was never griefed in DAoC nor WAR nor GW2 nor ESO. Died in PVP many times but that's a whole different story.
There are asshats who get their jollies from preventing others from playing. Are you saying games where that's enabled that is good design?
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
we use to battle for hours over a damn wagon that summoned mobs to kill and level up. it made it interesting fighting other groups who wanted that wagon for themselves.
The problem is so many people think they want pvp but then they join the pvp server get killed and quit the game. when they should of been on a pve server to begin with.
you might call being killed while questing griefing, as i call it a bigger challenge because the game itself is already to damn easy. having to fight others and get some friends to back you up for some good battles is fun to some of us.
What you describe is just good old PVP and I wouldn't want to miss it.
/Cheers,
Lahnmir
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
- RPG Quiz - can you get all 25 right?
- FPS Quiz - how well do you know your shooters?
Also I didn't spend much time in starter areas and I never rolled a dwarf so perhaps I just missed all of the action.
I was actually friends with the Asian gold farmers who regularly let me group with them, even though I was a SR.
We couldn't chat much, but they knew enough to get their point across when necessary.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Griefing is about intention. Griefing is driven by the specific intent to ruin someone else's gaming experience, AKA cause them grief.
I'll give you two scenarios to highlight the difference.
Scenario 1: Pirate Pete the high level sees Newby Ned who just started the game today. Newby Ned is farming NPCs that sometimes drop valuable items. Ones valuable even to veterans. He kills him, takes his stack of that items off his corpse, and goes on about his day.
Scenario 2: Griefer Gary kills Pirate Pete, an evenly matched opponent, and takes his gear. PvP Pete respawns at the nearby bindpoint without gear. Despite the fact he gains nothing from further kills against Pirate Pete, Griefer Gary decides to camp the bindpoint for the next four hours because he loves "The sweet taste of his salty tears."
Scenario 1 is not griefing. Pirate Pete's motivation for killing the newb was the loot. He didn't rub his nose in it or do anything to make the loss sting worse. He got his loot and went on about his business. The disparity doesn't matter, it was the intent of the action.
Scenario 2 is griefing. Greifer Gary is killing specifically because his motivation is to ruin someone else's day. That is the classic definition of griefing. The fact that Gary had to kill him in an evenly matched fight to camp him doesn't matter. It was the intent of his actions.
"The Society that separates its scholars from its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting by fools."
Currently: Games Audio Engineer, you didn't hear what I heard, you heard what I wanted you to hear.
If you don't like a game with rules that enable. Then don't play it. And certainly don't try to cry about it... Admit it's not the game for you instead of being the asshole that complains that the game isn't fair.
Griefing isn't a question of rules, it's a moral issue. Are you going to be as big of an ass as you can possibly get away with, or are you going to treat your fellow players with respect?
It's the board game equivalent of calling everyone at the table names and shooting spitwads at them.
You are essentially claiming "Anything oked by the rules is morally right! I am justfied in being as big of an ass as possible as long as the rules say it's ok!"
MMOs are games governed by hard coded rules with thousands of players. They don't have time to run around and make sure everyone plays nice. As such many people choose to operate as virtual bullies because they can get away with it.
No, I'm not going admit the game isn't for me and just leave if that happens, because no game has the potential to prevent that. I'm just going to note people who do it are griefers, make a note of their name and guild, and return the favor thricefold every time I encounter them or anyone who shares their guild tag. As I have been doing for years now.
Second if CM was to attempt that (or anyone for that matter ) some of the recourse i can take , first would be opening the door and letting my 2 140+ lb Rhodesian Ridgebacks tear him a new asshole , if that didnt work(which is laughable) i could shoot him ...just for ex..
Your anaolgy doesnt work as you cant take real life recourse and action into the equation of a game now can you ...
Now in the game , you dont have options like that to fall back on , if it IS that bad , So log out or log a different toon or play a different game ...
But
corpse camping doesnt happen all that often anymore (there are few games you can even do it in) , matter a fact near impossible anymore ...
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
People are considering griefing w/e does not fit their perception how PVP should take place - once you do not fit into their arbitrary qualifiers, intention is falsely assumed(why else he would do that?).
The fact is people doing things just to be an ass in games is very common. It's kind of hard to convince people who've actually played any games (Or even been on the internet) otherwise.
Do people judge Brad Pitts personality based on the roles he plays in films?
I have nothing against griefing if the game allows it.
My comparison still stands.
Do you judge an actor's personality by the roles he chooses to play?
A gamer can choose to role play any character he wants in a game, good or evil. There's no rule in place that states you have to be yourself.
When people are being griefed what they should do is ask for help in game from other players/community.
Something fun could stem from it.
I did it to annoy people. And this thread is a testament that baby, people are annoyed. Mission fucking accomplished.
I invite anyone else who is being accused of griefing state their reasons. Why you were corpse camping one shotting a lad for a good amount of times when there was no reward or challenge involved. Maybe I'm the only sadistic c..t here, what were your reasons gentlemen?
/Cheers,
Lahnmir
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer