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Do MMO developers have no passion anymore and is why MMOs fail?
TheScavenger
Member EpicPosts: 3,321
Older MMOs, like Guild Wars 1, Everquest...Ultima Online...Asheron's Call...even going as "new" as City of Heroes (and WoW while has a cash shop, is definitely not the focus)...
Those MMOs all have one thing in common (amongst of similar MMOs released in that time frame)...they were made by developers with passion and love.
These days, developers make MMOs to make as much money as they possibly can. They focus so heavily on the cash shop (GW2 for example very heavily focuses on the cash shop, but GW1 did not at all) and RNG loot boxes and pay to win schemes that there is no love anymore. Developers only focus on making as much money as possible. That is fine to have money, but older MMOs were made by developers who loved MMOs and wanted to make a game THEY loved and they hoped others loved it too.
Is this one reason so many MMOs are failing? No passion is being made with them anymore? WoW came out and while it has a cash shop (don't think it always did, did it?) I feel it was the last MMO made with passion and love. And funny enough, it was also the last successful and biggest MMO.
Since then, all I see is such a focus on cash shop and barely any love for the game...in fact...most MMOs are built AROUND the cash shop and heavily focus on it. But I see little love for the MMO itself only existing for the purpose of the cash shop. No passion or love being put into their games.
If an MMO was to be successful, it should be made by developers who love MMOs and have passion for them. Not developers looking for a quick buck. And sure its not guaranteed to be liked, but at least its made with love and developers who actually love MMOs.
Those MMOs all have one thing in common (amongst of similar MMOs released in that time frame)...they were made by developers with passion and love.
These days, developers make MMOs to make as much money as they possibly can. They focus so heavily on the cash shop (GW2 for example very heavily focuses on the cash shop, but GW1 did not at all) and RNG loot boxes and pay to win schemes that there is no love anymore. Developers only focus on making as much money as possible. That is fine to have money, but older MMOs were made by developers who loved MMOs and wanted to make a game THEY loved and they hoped others loved it too.
Is this one reason so many MMOs are failing? No passion is being made with them anymore? WoW came out and while it has a cash shop (don't think it always did, did it?) I feel it was the last MMO made with passion and love. And funny enough, it was also the last successful and biggest MMO.
Since then, all I see is such a focus on cash shop and barely any love for the game...in fact...most MMOs are built AROUND the cash shop and heavily focus on it. But I see little love for the MMO itself only existing for the purpose of the cash shop. No passion or love being put into their games.
If an MMO was to be successful, it should be made by developers who love MMOs and have passion for them. Not developers looking for a quick buck. And sure its not guaranteed to be liked, but at least its made with love and developers who actually love MMOs.
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On the other side of that coin are Indy studios who have no business people at the helm to control their spending or tug the reins when developers spend too much time on bell and not enough effort on whistles. Look at Star Citizen, as long as the money is coming in, they are running around in all directions and we are still YEARS away from seeing the release.
Think back to the original Bioware and the games they made back in the day. 3 doctors with business experience who loved games. It is hard to get the mix right and that is where many of todays studios struggle. Look at Trion, with a better business model Archeage could have been a breakout hit here in the west. But sadly Scott Hartsman is more business than developer.
The line between business and developer is much like the line between usability and security, it is hard to get the right balance of both.
That is why on MMORPG.com a lot of users want oldschool style MMOs back, and not the new cash shop focused ones that have too much attention to the cash shop and not the game. To get old school MMOs back, gotta make MMOs like back in the day or there'll never be a true oldschool MMO again that people on these forums want. And many developers these days don't put much care or passion into the MMO except to make as much money as possible, which isn't how oldschool MMO devs built their MMOs.
Unless people don't actually want oldschool MMOs back and like the new ones more. That would mean games like Pantheon are (sadly) doomed to fail, and may be why Vanguard Saga of Heroes failed. If that is the case, then yeah the OP would be wrong then.
My Skyrim, Fallout 4, Starbound and WoW + other game mods at MODDB:
https://www.moddb.com/mods/skyrim-anime-overhaul
Let's play Fallen Earth (blind, 300 episodes)
Let's play Guild Wars 2 (blind, 45 episodes)
Even the quests making machine have more brain than those MMO developers
The concept of "do menial tasks for hundreds of hours before you can get to anything that resembles fun but with a bunch of other people running around that can actively impede you" just doesnt have the same pull that it did a decade ago.
Thats why MOBAs and Hero Shooters have replaced MMOs - no spending hundreds of hours toiling away at nothing to get to the fun parts.
You're looking in the wrong place for the answer, its the players that have no passion for MMOs and that is why they are failing.
The problem is that passion alone can't create a great game, or even a marginally working one. Being unable to make games that work the way that the designer envisioned is a huge problem, even for the elite game creators who do make good games. Scaling back the vision to something that they can implement properly is a concession to reality, not a lack of passion.
Gotta keep the servers plugged in afterall.
I know for me it would be easier to justify getting paid less to do more if there was a crowd of fans of my work cheering me on. But honestly, with all this incessant bitching, it wouldn't be long before I'd say, "Screw it and screw these people! I'm gonna go make a dozen phone games and make a crapton more money..."
...and that's exactly what they're doing.
[mod edit]
But anyways, saying that the devs don't have passion for what they do is rather unfair, while some probably don't many does. The publishers might push them in a certain direction though and more unusual ideas have a hard time to get funded but that isn't the same as all devs doing games they don't really like.
If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.
You can tell by the business models if there is passion or a money grab,just business.
I feel the real subject is weather they have passion above their business side of things.This would make it real easy to discuss because imo 99.9% even if we agreed they all have passion,will put aside passion for whatever it takes to make the business a success and money.People have been known to cheat and lie to their own family and friends because of money,so to think some blind stranger wouldn't try to dupe you or deceive you or try to swindle you for as much money as possible would be very naive.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Being a pessimist is a win-win pattern of thinking. If you're a pessimist (I'll admit that I am!) you're either:
A. Proven right (if something bad happens)
or
B. Pleasantly surprised (if something good happens)
Either way, you can't lose! Try it out sometime!
In 1994 when Warcraft: Orcs & Humans was released it was shareware (free to download and play a handful of missions, and multiplayer [long before & without battlenet]). But it was made to make a buck even back then.
None of the old games listed was made by a developer that wasn't in it for the money. Now if you are talking Rogue or Netrek, maybe those old games were made out of passion.
Games fail today, for one reason. Customers can't afford them anymore. Because of the poor economy.
Boy: Why can't I talk to Him?
Mom: We don't talk to Priests.
As if it could exist, without being payed for.
F2P means you get what you paid for. Pay nothing, get nothing.
Even telemarketers wouldn't think that.
It costs money to play. Therefore P2W.
I hate these presumed post titles about things. Why are devs so ______ presumes the _________. Mostly it is person X bitching about how games are made specifically for them. Mostly Clueless fools if you ask me.
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Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
Some will be decent I am sure.
You stay sassy!
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https://www.ashesofcreation.com/ref/Callaron/
I think it would actually be eye opening and would "correct" a great many people.
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Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
You see people who take a break/quit from wow don't wanna play a mmorpg thats bascally the exact same thing they just quit/took a break from. Thus most lose interest fast. On the flipside, as said people have been babied by wow, any game that actually requires thought is too much for them. Its why most fail, they aren't willing to try anything new, even though they are sick of the wow-formula.
In my eyes, wow has completly ruined and destroy the mmorpg genre by creating the mmo players it did.
For more proof at how games cater to casuals/idiots/people who suck, look at .hack GU last recode, they increased player attack power, made leveling char lv and weapon skill levels much faster, as well as nerfed some of the optional hard boss fights. I like all the other things they did except these 4.. why you ask? I played the orignal on ps2 and in no way did I find it hard, or grindy at all. The problem is gamers of todays generation want everything NOW NOW NOW, and expect it handed to them. I mean hell the game even has a frigging cheat mode that starts you at max level for that volume (there are 3 main ones that have cheat mode, and vol4 i assume does not) with good gear, I mean if your willing to go that far games have fallen to a new low.
Most mmo's these days the leveling process is pretty much this: follow arrows to quest hubs, do quests, move to next quest hub. Repeat till max level. Even a braindead monkey could get to max level when its like that.
Anyway, I've pretty much given up on mmorpgs, the only ones that interest me now are the ones that ain't quest based, but sadly those ones are also open world gank fests with item loss, which While i don't care if I get ganked, I hate the fact I lose items. I've also given up on AAA games because more often than not they ain't worth the pricetag when a indie game can give a better experence and have more playtime than something 3-4 times its price. Not to mention those games have also gone down the shitter too just like mmorpg's and again its due to todays "gamers" who want everything handed to them.
Being a pessimist is a win-win pattern of thinking. If you're a pessimist (I'll admit that I am!) you're either:
A. Proven right (if something bad happens)
or
B. Pleasantly surprised (if something good happens)
Either way, you can't lose! Try it out sometime!
I get a little tired these days of seeing the term WoW Clone tossed around like it should explain away a crappy game. Think of it this way: Both WoW and FFXI were EQ clones, yet they couldn't be more different. WoW changed the way questing works while FFXI added a real story. Obviously, those weren't the only changes, but it does serve to illustrate my point. It's not about the similarities between games. It's about the differences. Why do we only do this with MMOs? Titan Quest is a Diablo 2 "clone" yet it isn't ridiculed as being such. Every FPS is in some way a Doom / Quake clone, yet none are ridiculed for it. Why? Because it would be ridiculous to ridicule a shooter for having shooting elements. The differences between those games, no matter how small, can make a significant impact for the player.
I do agree that many games (WoW included) have taken QoL changes over the years (teleporting, dungeon finders, movement speed, etc) WAY too far. I think many of these features ruin the feel of the world, and IMO, MMOs should be all about the world and those in it. I think that, while important, combat and gameplay mechanics should play a less significant role than world building and community.
No one is complaining about all the Bejeweled clones out there polluting the mobile game space, yet quest driven MMOs are just more dirty WoW clones. Mobile devs are the ones trying to make a quick buck. The gaming landscape may be different today than it was 10 years ago, but I can't in good conscience call them without passion. That's just flat out wrong.
Joined - July 2004